propaganda

ian-mary


Joined: 11/06/2007
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
19/07/2007 12:05

i believe that alot of the tourists that come to southern cyprus are curious to see the north. When i first visited southern cyprus 10 years ago i was taken in by the greek propaganda train to which its tracks seem to go on forever. I fell in love with cyprus and did my own research on all situations. it is then i realised it was all propaganda. As a tourist visiting the south i realize how easy it would be to be taken in by it all.

I think this is a major reason for people not wanting to cross the border and when i crossed the border last week i wasnt very impressed until i drove through the mountains and then i was gobsmacked at the beauty and greenery and the kindness of the northern people.

it took me along time to realize this. lets hope it takes others alot less time to realise that cyprus as a whole, the nicest place on the island is the North.

Please visit and take in mind the choo choo train.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/07/2007 13:58

Thanks Ian - Mary

You are right, the GC propoganda train goes on and on, driven by fear, greed and revenge. Fear that people will discover the beauty and charm of NC. Fear that they will lose tourists to NC. Greed so that they can cash in on the ascendency of the North and revenge because they received a 'bloody nose' back in 74.

They need to move on, claim their compensation, be grateful for what they have and rise to the challenge. Make their part of the island a great place for tourists, a warm and welcoming place.

stevie-d



Joined: 13/07/2007
Posts: 1420

Message Posted:
19/07/2007 14:25

Totaly agree, used to go to GC years ago,went to NC fell in love with it can`t wait to go back sometime in Sept.I hope.

stevie-d

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
19/07/2007 17:15

Fall in love with Cyprus but please remember that Cyrpriots are Cypriots; all descended from Phonesians and alike in every way but the religion they adopted.



Do your own research as the propodanda on both sides is outrageous.

ian-mary


Joined: 11/06/2007
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
19/07/2007 17:31

Namus

propaganda on both sides is fair enough but i didnt see anyone in the northern part of cyprus try to ram their opinion down my throught (as to speak)

but yes 2 sides to every story is fair.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
19/07/2007 19:28

Namus, I am pleased that you are still contributing to this forum. I like the fact that you contributed to the post on 'stray dogs' etc. You are probably knowledgeable on the idiosyncracies of Cypriot life but you badly need to update your knowledge on the structure of human mechanisms.



All Humans share much in common, sharing the same needs, wants and desires. not just Cypriots with other Cypriots. I hear all this crap from Turks and Greeks about descending from this race or that race. If you get right down to the core, we all came from the same stable, that is the Savannah Plain in Africa and we share much in common. If you want to read more then I suggest you read the work of the eminent anthropologist Donald Brown. His book is called 'Human universals'. You could also reference some of Browns work through some of the literature written by Harvard Psychologist Dr Steven Pinker or Management Consultant Marcus Buckingham. Interesting though, it is, that we all share a genetic history, this is far far from the full storey.



Cultures do express themselves differently, (Frans Trompenaars in his book 'Riding the waves of culture' expresses this nicely). Epigenetics would probably make a case that there would be some genetic similarities between Cypriots that is expressed in culture but again this not the full picture.



The problem is that most genes just don't turn themselves on and off. They express themselves through external forces. (Read the work of cellular biologist Dr Bruce Lipton or Dawson Church PHD if you want to know more) These forces are largely but not exclusively the thoughts and perceptions we have, shaped by the life conditions that we are facing. Life conditions take many forms and they shape our meaning making ability. To read more on meaning making then read the work of Dr Clare Graves, the Harvard psychologist Dr. Susannah Cook Greuter or Dr Jenny Wade.

Meaning making expresses itself differently around the world but the structure is inherently the same. For this reason, you could get one Cypriot person not agreeing with another Cypriot because their meaning making is different, however that same Cypriot may get on with a particular English person better because their meaning making structure is similar, although the expression of that meaning making (due to culture) is likely to be different. Of course, people at the same meaning making level could still disagree also. This happens often and is based on beliefs.



Most adult development psychologists agree on about nine or so levels of meaning making set in a hierachal structure. People traverse through these levels at different speeds.



The sun is one example of a life condition which affects our meaning making by impacting the hypothalamus in the brain. For this reason, Cypriots could share some things in common with other parts of the world who might have a similar climate. To a large degree you can predict economic growth based on the climate. The further you move away from the equator the greater economc growth you are likley to see, although there are some exceptions. To find out more read Dr Alan Parkers book 'Physioeconomics'.



Namus my post is probably a little too complicated now, but the point I am making is that to say Cypiots all descened from Phonesians is just too simplistic. Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots are exposed to different life conditions and ultimately something like religious beliefs will affect our DNA and as a consequence our genes express themselves differently. As the bible and most ancient texts quite rightly state our words (which come from our thoughts) affects our flesh. That which we are exposed to in our lifetime will have as much impact as whether someone is descended from Phonesians. This is why it seems that Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot Children and young adults seem to share diffe

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
19/07/2007 20:37

Phew!!!!! Anyone fancy an Efes???



Thanks Ilovecyprus for taking the time to write that. Unfortunately I got lost on the Savanah plain! A bit heavy for me I'm afraid!



Anyway, as has been said, whilst there were undoubtedly atrocities caried out by both sides in the past the GC propaganda machine has always worked better than the TC's. I think now that the TC's are making people aware that the troubles DIDN'T start in '74, but by the GC's much sooner with Makarios, Grivas, Sampson, Enosis, EOKA, Akritas etc, visitors to the Island are slowly starting to realize the truth.



Some friends of ours are travelling to the TRNC with us in October via Larnaca. They said they wanted to come with us as they were too nervous to go through the border on their own!!! And they are people that have NEVER been to Cyprus north OR south before!! Some (not all) GC's will have people believe that if they cross to the north they will be raped and murdered, but hey, it keeps the numbers for visitors to the south up I suppose.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 01:26

yeah far too heavy. Apologies millzer. I need an Efes myself after that

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 10:54

Hi Namus



I forgot to mention that what is contained within the meaning making are memes. Memes are ideas which become embraced by individuals and societies. Dr Howard Bloom in his book the Lucifer principle will tell you more about memes, or you could read any of the work of Dr Richard Dawkins.



Due to 34 years of seperation the TC's and GC's particularly the youth will now express different memes, hence there are likley to be differences in the way they view life, although as I stated earlier their wants and needs will be the same - these needs are defined by Donald brown and are based on the fears we all share 1) we all fear death so we need security (family, money etc) 2) we all fear outsiders so we need security (protection) 3) we all fear the future so we need clarity (assurances) 4) we all fear chaos so we need authority (to give us direction) 5) we all fear insignificance so we need respect. (to be valued and feel worthwhile)

ian-mary


Joined: 11/06/2007
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 13:53

ilovecyprus

WOW what can i say. i got lost long time ago. very imformative

Middle Easter


Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 146

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 15:23

ilovecyprus



I beg to differ & cannot let this pass. Your respond to a simple comment by Namus, in the context of this forum was a profoundly vain, over the top reply & as such an attempt to 'impress' others & 'crush' Namus.



Towards your 'climax', you wrote 'Namus my post is possibly a little too complicated now'....spare me! Further vanity! Of course this was your intention from the outset. But please don't insult the intelligence of others whilst trying to state your own.



As Richard Dawkins (who is far more clever than you or I - fact) commented in one of his recent works (I am sure you which one) 'People ask me why I use words of complexity, & my comment in reply is that many of the subjects I discuss are themselves complex. However, God help me (if I was a believer) should I seek to add complexity to what is a simple subject. As that would render me guilty to being that most American of terms 'a knuckle-head'



There is a time & place for all levels of discussion...

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 15:38

Yes, you are right Middle Easter. I was way over the top to a simple comment. Thusand apologies to Namus and you and others who were offended.



My intention is to point out that differences are not as simple as they seem but I went too far.

Richard Dawkins is definately an intelligent person and I know for sure that I do not have his intellect, far from it.

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 16:00

Well your reply blew me away but I feel you you protest too loudly.



I'm not sure propaganda is related to gene pools or just instruments of control by corrupt regimes. I was just trying to point out to be wary of all proganda and try to see Cypriots (that is how my wife see herself and hates to be termed a TC) rather than TCs and GCs each with their own trumpet to blow.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 16:32

Yes Namus, my protest was far too loud and totally disproportionate.

My sincere apologies to you Namus. My intention was not to try and crush you but I can fully understand how it could be perceived that way.

My job requires me to study the forces that impact human behaviour and I have to do alot of research in this area, but this is not the place to discuss it. If you want to talk about the points I was trying (not very well) to make we can do so off line.

Marvo


Joined: 30/04/2007
Posts: 194

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 17:17

Oh come on you people, this forum should be fun, light hearted and informative. This is far to heavy and involved for us simpletons, do every one a favour and keep it fun.

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 19:43

Sorry, fun it is.



ilovecyprus, thanks for the apology and I was sincerely impressed with your knowledge. Must be an interesting job you have to investigate such human characteristics but I feel I am not up to an off line discussion on the matter.



On the fun side....if you keep an open mind to the propaganda it is quite amusing.

namus


Joined: 23/06/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 19:50

Last message because i do not want to extend this but ilovecyprus, can you recommend any basic intro books on this subject as your explanation of the fears we all share has me intrigued?

Middle Easter


Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 146

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 19:52

I might as well apologise as well, because thats the beauty of NC.



Tough talk today, always friends the next....brilliant

ian-mary


Joined: 11/06/2007
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 19:57

I will also apologise. Dont know what for but i was feeling left out lol

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 20:25

Thanks Marvo for bringing in the reality check. Lifes too short and it is about having fun.



Namus, the fears I listed are in Marcus Buckinghams book 'The one thing you need to know'. The descriptions are succinct and comprehensive but the context is management and he only dedicates one chapter to this. The rest of the book is interesting though

Donald Browns universals, all the things that every culture in the world shares can be found at http://condor.depaul.edu/~mfiddler/hyphen/humunivers.htm



Hope you all have a great weekend, whatever you are up to. And have fuuuuuunnnnnnnn

Middle Easter


Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 146

Message Posted:
20/07/2007 20:29

I might as well apologise as well, because thats the beauty of NC.



Tough talk today, always friends the next....brilliant