PTP queries Northern Cyprus

zookeeper


Joined: 17/03/2010
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 17:03

2 Questions on PTP.



1. Is PTP regularly (or ever) refused for purchase of Esdeger (Exchange) deeds land or property?



2. Is PTP ever granted for purchase of Pre'74 Turkish or Foreign deeds land or property where the deeds are already in the name of a foreigner?



Zookeeper

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 17:12

1) yes you can be refused on any title deed.

2) yes it has been, we have Turkish title pre 74, house was pre owned by expats, we are both expats and we had no problems at all.

There can always be a chance they refuse you , but try to make sure that what ever you buy is not classified as being too close to the military in any way.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 19:32

ptp pre 74, since 2006, is now not given to foreigners.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 20:16

We applied in August 2005 for PTP on our GENUINE pre 1974 Turkish Title property and were refused.



Perhaps 'blade' would like to enlighten us all as to WHEN he/she applied?



And if 'blade' were now to sell to another foreigner, PTP granted would be highly unlikely - 'the cat is out of the bag' now re. pre '74 TT.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
08/09/2010 20:18

We actually received ours within six months of applying,

Paul.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 13:03

Recieved it in 2007, so you have it all wrong.

There is nothing wrong with my title deed and if i decided to sell I would guarentee it.

You have no proof that ptp are not being given on pre 74 turkish title, when the goverment who run this country say thats how it is, then we will accept that. But until then its just gossip.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 13:34

Blade



I think the question asked when you APPLIED for PTP and not when you received it. Evidence would appear to support the widely held opinion that anyone APPLYING for PTP from mid to late 2005 onwards is no longer receiving PTP on pre-74 properties.



Paul

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 19:26

I appied in about April/May 2006 ish. Proving your theory wrong.

Evidence would appear? are you some sort of lawyer?

Gossip , speculation, same old , same old.

Sorry i don't mean to be rude, but what factual evidence do you have?

Who's widely held opinion?

Who is it that runs this country? Hbpg or the TRNC Goverment?

As I have always said that when the goverment say its so, i believe you, until then why carry on repeating speculation.?? Without proof.??

Sour grapes maybe??

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/09/2010 19:59

Mine is actually on exchange land,

Paul.

zookeeper


Joined: 17/03/2010
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
10/09/2010 10:02

Thanks for all your replies - but it seems that there is no definitive answer to either question.

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 15:03

Just been notified today by our advocate that our PTP has been granted it took 1 year and 8 months from date of application.



Mike

robinhood


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 15:23

got my ptp granted in early 2009 after 2 years 2 months so totally agree with blade views

most just presume that ptp on pre-74 to brits will be refused because same old cyprus44 posters say so !!

some folk get refused some dont, as blade says sour grapes.....

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 17:18

Blade I know of many people who applied for ptp on 2006 and got their deeds in 2007 but thats 3 yesrs ago and from many people I know and solicitors if they are totally honest will tell you there is difficulties on foreigners obtaining permissions on pre 74 deeds.



Dont think its sour grapes or idle gossip and if I were to be informed of that risk I would be grateful.



It may be when selling to a foreigner that the problem will arise for them



As for the government ever telling it publicly get real we are in North cyprus theres always speculation as nothing is ever as it is even in law.



robinhood out of interest was your ptp granted on exchange orgenuine pre 74 deeds

zookeeper


Joined: 17/03/2010
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 17:05

Question to Mike (The Saints) & Robin Hood,

Are your deeds pre-'74 and what nationality were the previous owners?

Thanks,

Zookeeper

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 18:01

If the reason pre '74 Turkish Title, or Exchange [Esdeger] is refused with the excuse being 'military', then the whole of TRNC is a military occupied area, so PTP should be refused on the whole bloody lot!



Just because one, or two, were granted PTP on pre '74 Turkish Title is no guarantee, whatsoever, that any successive foreign buyer could be as lucky. It is now widely known that the TRNC government intends to preserve this property for Turkish Cypriots only - just shame on them, the advocates and estate agents, for this underhand cover-up.



At least the purchase of pre '74 Turkish Title property is afforded international recogition of ownership, whether it be by a Cypriot or a foreigner, whereas Exchange is not.



How ironic - because it really means that there is NO property available in TRNC for legal ownership by any foreigner!

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 19:15

Robinhood, Blade, just because you were lucky enough to get yours does not mean that others are so fortunate.



UNFORTUNATELY it is not gossip - I know of numerous purchasers who bought privately and through developers who are in this situation.



Permissions to purchase have never been dealt with in chronological order so this has affected people who bought as early as 2003 and more recently where title deeds were in the name of the foreigner!!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 19:58

ZOOKEEPER, This was one of the questions asked to N. Mehmet a TRNC advocate. Hope her answer helps you reach a decision. To read the full article:



http://www.ipb-magazine.com/en/articles/north-cyprus-government-refuses-hand-over-deeds-buyers

Read the section on Law and rules.



Think about it.......people owning have much to lose if refusal on pre 74 is true? This advocate will lose business so has nothing to gain from the truth. Speak to HBPG and the British High Commission who investigated this particular problem. The question was:



We have been advising people to buy Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds, but now we hear of people being refused permission to purchase. Is that right?



Cont/

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 20:00

answer:



"Yes, lately there have been speculations that the government has some secret policy of rejecting permission for non-citizens to purchase on Pre-74 Title land. There is no official legislation or ruling that states any restrictions on this land and when we, or other colleagues, ask the government they say that every application is evaluated on its own merits. But, there is a trend in the application that are being refused and it seems that most, if not all Pre-74 Title Deeds, are being rejected.



Worrying words..........MOST, IF NOT ALL PRE 74 ARE BEING REJECTED.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 20:02

CONT/



The only reason given is that it was rejected by the military. This is a very broad reason which doesn't explain anything. We know that some of the big developers here are trying to challenge the government on this, as of course it is having a big effect on them. They have invested heavily in Pre-74 Title, thinking that it would be a much safer and attractive title to sell. They have paid a premium for this land, but are now finding that the value is decreasing because of all these speculations. If this was an open policy we could advice clients accordingly, but to just refuse the applications by the back door like this, especially after they have given building permission, is very wrong and it doesn't make economic sense for the country. Especially now with the Orams case going through The British Court of Appeals and many buyers feeling that Pre-74 land is safer to buy."

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 20:06

I foolishly was persuaded by other forum members to buy Pre 74, having been reassured that it was just the "rumour mill" and Pre 74 was safe.



Wish I could turn back the clock! Would hate to see anyone else make the same costly mistake?

TheSaints



Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 1369

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 20:34

Our PTP was granted on esdeger (exchange) and has taken approx 1 year and 8 months, the reason we chose esdeger is our advocate informed us in Dec 2008 when we were looking at properties to stop looking at Pre74 Turkish Title as she had received a circular from the council of ministers instructing her not to make any PTP applications for Foreign buyers as the application would not be accepted.

This leads me to believe that all advocates must have received this information, I do not know exactly when our advocate received this circular but we were lucky in that ours made us privvy to it as we were just about to close a deal on Pre74, looking at what has been happening the last couple of years she gave good advice.



Mike

zookeeper


Joined: 17/03/2010
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 11:38

Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time and trouble to respond to my query:- much appreciated.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
01/10/2010 13:49

Bradus,

Are you working at the PTP office now?

Oh silly me! How is it that the lady who runs the HBPG where you get your information actually rents a home?

If she can't sort out her own problems , how is she going to sort out anything for others??



Please don't speculate on what you think is fact against reality. People have been granted ptp on pre 74 Turkish title, the proof is here. By the looks of things even more recently than mine,.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 00:17

Constructive criticism please Blade!



Don't resort to sarcasm to make your point, instead try putting across a valid argument.



Nothing to say about the references I used? If you actually backed up your statements with up to date references and factual information, you might just be more convincing but throwing your dummy out of the pram simply gives the impression that you just don't like what you are hearing, rather than being able to prove your point.



Go through this thread again and all the others relating to PTP refusal and please note the amount of people shouting loud and clear "foreigners are not getting PTP on Pre 74 Turkish title"



I do not speculate................I speak from experience, doing my home-work and discussing this with others that have also been refused.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 13:18

Cyprus 44 mob rule. Those who shout loudest make it right?



My vaild point is that many expats here in the TRNC have had both PTP and title deeds issued on Pre 74 Turkish title.

Factual information, i had a good chat last year with the lady who runs the ptp office, she has now gone on to higher things. My question was about refusals of ptp on Turkish title, i was told that there is no truth in it what so ever. i was also told that a certian group of people they were aware of had instigated the story.

So do i take your word for it, or do i listen to someone who now works in goverment here?

I rest my case. Idel gossip and sour grapes!

So you carry on shouting loud and clear but anyone with half a clue knows its just cyprus44 mob rule as usual.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 13:37

Do I take the word of someone that works in the PTP office or Government!!!!!!!!



Do you really think that anyone in a Government office is going to admit that the TRNC is only willing to give PTP on property that they do not own (GC) but won't sell their own Pre 74?

What would that look like in the eyes of the rest of the world? Hypocritical?

They are hardly likely to admit it.



Again I suggest people discuss this particular problem with The British High Commission who are now fully aware of this problem having met with the military and Interior Ministry.

My advocate came clean about the non-granting of PTP on Pre74 after my refusal. He thought when we first bought they had seen an increase in refusals but they did not have enough evidence to state outright that this particular title deed was being refused for the majority. He now advises against buying because as he says nearly all, if not all, are being refused or kept in lingo. Just too risky to touch!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
02/10/2010 13:47

Perhaps all that truly needs saying is that TRNC Law states:



No one should enter into a Property Sales Contract other than one stating that it is

"an intent to purchase" subject to Permission To Purchase and unencumbered Deeds being made available,

nor should anyone pay any deposits on properties until they have received their Permission to Purchase.



T h i s i s t h e l a w . . .



and would completely end the PTP debate on refusals if it was adhered to.