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pre 74 turkish title

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mairs


Joined: 16/07/2008
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
15/08/2008 04:08

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Message 1 of 31 in Discussion

Hi everyone

I'm new to this forum but have been enjoying it for a while

What are the concerns re pre 74 Turkish title? It is meant to be 100% safe. Has anyone finalised their title and how long did it take?

Looking forward to coming in September.



rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
15/08/2008 15:27

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Message 2 of 31 in Discussion

Mairs

Rumour has it that the TRNC government is not granting PTP for pre 74 Turkish title although they deny it.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/08/2008 15:36

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Message 3 of 31 in Discussion

i have recieved my ptp and kochan for my turkish title property this year. purchased in 2006 all complete begining of 2008.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/08/2008 16:22

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Message 4 of 31 in Discussion

Pre-74 is the only safe and legal title. Don't make a mistake when Cyprus is so close to settlement.



mairs


Joined: 16/07/2008
Posts: 15

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 11:49

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Message 5 of 31 in Discussion

Hi people

Thanks .. it's confusing isn't it. rtddci I read your posts - I'm sorry you've had this trouble. I'm certainly nowhere near an army base but am wondering what other reasons might be found to refuse!



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 12:45

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Message 6 of 31 in Discussion

Mairs



like many I am in the same boat just playing a waiting game. Dismissed it as rumour initially, then got a little concerned when contacted HBPG and saw the extent of the problem: not so much the refusals but the length of time people are kept waiting for their permission to purchase in comparison to exchange titles.



Then spoke to some TC's to find out that the governemnt had suggested leases on these properties rather than being bought as freehold. When we asked our advocate about the delay in granting of ptp on 74 title deeds she also told us not to worry there was talk about this property being offered on a long lease of 99 years.



So who knows, what the problem is? What with the electricity charges, uncertainty of exchage property and possible compensation payments and now this, is the TRNC the best place to be buying?



I don't think so.



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 21:48

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Message 7 of 31 in Discussion

private pike,



we would all like some sort of amicable settlement

but is cyprus really "close" to one?

better see this week's cyprus star front page!



and perhaps my recent thread,

dealing with the ozdil nami interview



andre



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 22:31

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Message 8 of 31 in Discussion

bradus

there was always going too be compensation ,as for a settlement being close

we wish, its nowhere near,cost of living yes its going up but where isn,t it

we sometimes have to rewind and ask ourselves why we invested in north

cyprus ,you must of seen some sort of future there,i see a future in the trnc

and believe me it can only get better.



musin



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 23:46

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Message 9 of 31 in Discussion

Musin,

Love the place, love the people. But what is this government thinking off?



Can they not see that they are killing the construction industry? This not only impacts on buyers but the TC workforce, investment potential and economic growth as well. My TC builder was excellent and he deserves to prosper, as do his workforce, but I feel his chances are limited because of the governments present day stance.



Many foreigners are already reluctant to buy in the TRNC because of the political situation. Add to that a legal system which gives buyers no protection and a government well known for failing to take appropriate action to solve the many problems that are well publicised, then no one can be shocked when the bottom falls out of the property market. One could say it is self inflicted.



Why are people waiting for two - six years before they get their ptp?

According to the government it is not rcommended to proceed with a purchase until you have your ptp. So perhaps all potential buyers should take the government at their word and ask builders to wait years before handing over money and agreeing to purchase? We would be abiding by the law and safeguarding our interests. Not sure what would happen to the construction industry though?



Why are people waiting years for their title deeds when they have paid in full for their property?



Why won't the government come clean and admit they want to hold onto pre74 title deeds?



What will happen to those people whose title deeds have been used to fund the massive excess in building property that nobody is buying? Will the banks be the only ones to benefit from this?



The sad thing is that the TRNC is naturally beautiful, so underdeveloped, compared to many other places that have been destroyed by mass tourism. Without all the current problems you could have a booming property market. This then has a knock on effect with purchasers making regular trips and staying in hotels and spending their cash in all those other leisure activities.



My point Musin, is that government action and inaction has prevented this from happening. How many on this forum would feel comfortable recommending a family member to buy?



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 02:33

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Message 10 of 31 in Discussion

andre: "better see this week's cyprus star front page!"



Is that where you get your analysis?



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 10:49

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Message 11 of 31 in Discussion

brasus: "Why won't the government come clean and admit they want to hold onto pre74 title deeds?"



I thought you conceded this was coffee shop gossip with no basis in fact. Last time this was aired people were posting pointing out they had recently been issued with their pre-74 title deeds.



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 13:09

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Message 12 of 31 in Discussion

Only one person posted that he had his title deeds. I am more inclined to go with informatin from HBPG.



Those of us that have purchased pre 74, and some have waited from 2004, have sent several e-mails to the pco but have had no response.

From the HBPG



Of the significant number of applications submitted to date, a relatively small number have been rejected. In general, the problem has been that the approval being sought was in relation to a security protection zone or on pre-74 Turkish land. With the delays in the process, the majority of the purchasers have already paid all their money to the vendor and taken possession of the properties in question.



In March at the hbpg the following question was asked:





Q3: What advice do you give to people (like us) who have just been refused permission because our property is on Turkish Title land? Our application was dated July 2005.



MS: We are working on refusals at the moment, it is something we have raised with the Prime Minister. We have a list of some 21 known refusals, thatís all, I am sure there are more, but many people may as yet be unaware that they have been refused. He has requested these files from the ministry and we are awaiting further information from him. I would ask that if you are caught up in this issue and I do not know about it, drop me a e-mail with your PTP number, this is going to be an ongoing matter for some time I think. The refusals are not all connected with Turkish title deed, but we need to know the true reason for any refusal as the whole thing is something else shrouded in mystery. If we know the reason for refusal, we might be able to do something about it and reapply.



Since then I am informed many people came forward with delays in ptp with this particular type of deed. Marian continues to try and get an answer as to why.



Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 17:43

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Message 13 of 31 in Discussion

We took possesion of our house in December 2004 and we got our kocan in November 2006. Pre 74 Turkish title.

Our neighbour who bought a few months after we did is still waiting for his though.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 18:39

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Message 14 of 31 in Discussion

bradus i am a she by the way. now thats 2 people who have recently got their turkish title deeds. don't listen to gossip.



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 20:15

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Message 15 of 31 in Discussion

hi bradus

let me give you some examples ,my sister bought a villa 5 years ago in bogaz

she still has not recieved her kocan ,my brother on the other hand bought

a villa just up the road in otuken 2 years ago and has recieved his ,both bought from the same construction company ,confused so are they and i think the goverment are in the same boat.enjoy yourself all will work out it just takes a little longer in the trnc.



musin



rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 20:38

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Message 16 of 31 in Discussion

Bradus wrote 'How many on this forum would feel comfortable recommending a family member to buy?'

Not me that's for sure.



I agree with Bradus and the HBPG re the pre 74 PTP issue. So few granted as to raise the suspicion.



Martin



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 20:43

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Message 17 of 31 in Discussion

maybe the rest of the applicants are not being issued their title deeds for other reasons. like criminal record or property being close to army base. this isn't ment to have a dig at those who aren't in either of the above catagory but it can't all be about turkish tile.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 22:46

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Message 18 of 31 in Discussion

I agree. Obviously when a problem raises its head it can become the biggest thing in the world to someone affected. Common sense and reason can go out the window. I'd put safe money on there being far more PTPs refused for those buying Greek Cypriot property simply because there's far more of them.



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 22:55

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Message 19 of 31 in Discussion

private pike:



I can't guarantee the accuracy of this report in the latest "star"

nor am in a position to comment on the quality of its analysis (eh?)



they claim they interviwed the president talat's senior adviser

and quoted ozdil nami as follows:



"no agreement has been reached...

on security, guarantees and the land issue"



we both would wish it were otherwise,

perhaps for different reasons, but there it is...



apparently the only things agreed to date are fairly minor questions

about the eu and the need to progress the proper negociations promptly



this could well save you from having to buy anyone

a reunification round of efes in "kyrenia" harbour as you would call it!



and mean that in the long run there would be no real difference at all

in buying any form of title eg, pre-'74 ROC "turkish", TMD, esedeger etc



readers. for my thoughts on this please see my thread "ozdil nami interview"

message posted 16.8.08 00.12 hrs



andre



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 23:00

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Message 20 of 31 in Discussion

The issue is not getting title deeds as two above have quoted. These are old applicants, it is the fact that in the last year the government have decided not to grant PTP on further pre 74 titles.



The article was in CT in June so cannot remember details, but the general comment was that they do not want any more of these titles to be sold out of TC hands.



A point I entirley agree with, bit like throwing baby out with bath water etc!!!! Should keep what you have before the country is only left with stolen land and property!!



As there has been plenty of stuff on all BB's on this topic over the last year I am surprised that people are still asking "why are we being refused"? Bottom line, do your home work and believe nothing you are told about buying property in North Cyprus.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 23:07

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Message 21 of 31 in Discussion

andre msg#19,



But the newspaper you mention - and thereby the article - are complete discredited rubbish aren't they?



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 10:32

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Message 22 of 31 in Discussion

private pike,



I am in no position to disagree

and very much hope that you are right, since like you

I want to see a solution to the cyprus problem



however it seems to me that a report like this,

where the guy's comments are reported verbatim

may well be correct

and the scuppers the whole argument

in favour of higher-priced pre-'74 turkish title property

since if any of it is true suggests the sides are

as far apart as they ever were....



for further comments on the issue please see my posting

17.08.08 00:12 hours



andre



Wiser


Joined: 30/07/2008
Posts: 796

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 11:39

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Message 23 of 31 in Discussion

I bought a Turkish Title house in Lapta. It took 4 and a half years but I got my permissions to purchase.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 11:47

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Message 24 of 31 in Discussion

andre,



Just unsubstantiated piffle, IMO. As is about 90% of the incestous coffee shop gossip you get in the TRNC.



norma jean



Joined: 29/05/2008
Posts: 191

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 12:04

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Message 25 of 31 in Discussion

We signed contract for the build of our house in Feb 2004, as did close friends. We moved in in Sept 2005, house not quite finished, but we managed, and enjoy our life over here. Eight houses on our small site. Six have their ptp's Ourselves and a neighbour do not. Our close friends who signed at the same time as us got theirs in Dec 2006. We have not been refused, but everytime we ring to enquire we are told they are waiting for the Military. Not sure what the answer is to this, we are just waiting to finalise everything and pay the government the tax we owe.



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 14:38

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Message 26 of 31 in Discussion

the whole pre-'74 turkish title question seems quite obscure

perhaps somebody other than private pike can advise:

what about a 99-year lease?!?



you would be able to buy leasehold for somehat less money,

since one day the lessor's successors can reclaim the property

of course it would affect the value for inheritance purposes

but that may or may not be important to you



it is true that 99-year leases seem to have succeeded

like a lead balloon in the trnc

but I am not clear why this is so...



also, if you chose to pay over the odds for turkish title,

is it possible to sign a 99-year lease for the place regardless

should ptp be refused?



andre



Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 17:07

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Message 27 of 31 in Discussion

Andre



I can see some problems in taking 99 lease on Turkish Title properties



1) For existing contracts you have already paid premium freehold prices for the land and I can't see the venders giving you any or all of your money back if you are not happy with this as they would justifyably say its not their problem.



2) Whilst in theory on a discounted cashflow analysis the value of 99 year leasehold on a token rental would be initially not much less than freehold this changes over time. If you hold a property for a long period of time say 50-60 years or so the value would start to decline more steeply year by year and in the last years is only worth the discounted rental value for the time left.



3) Psychologically a lot of people don't perceive leasehold as being the same as owning the property regardless of the financial calculations and arn't comforatble buying it.



As for if you can convert a freehold purchase to a 99 year lease if I were the vendor I would be happy to do it as eventually my descendents would get the property back for free (assuming I keep the original sale price). They may even be able to borrow against the freehold value as it gets close to the expiry of the 99 years.





Aussie



andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 18:05

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Message 28 of 31 in Discussion

thanks for comments aussie, very interesting



I also wondered tho' if you make an original offer



for a 99-year lease you then escape having to apply for ptp



andre



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 23:42

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Message 29 of 31 in Discussion

the way i see it is that when you purchase turkish title property it is an internationally recognised title deed.free from any claim. when you purchase freehold you have the freehold to sell,simple. what the goverment decide for the future who knows but as it stands i purchased freehold and have the freehold to sell if i wish.



pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
25/08/2008 00:02

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Message 30 of 31 in Discussion

Firestarter, As you have Kocan all these things are possible, hopefully many of us will be same position one day.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
25/08/2008 00:09

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Message 31 of 31 in Discussion

good luck, just be persistant and it will come.



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