Turks fire warning shots at Greek-Cypriot boat

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 06:38

http://en.trend.az/regions/met/turkey/1757469.html

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 06:48

Hopefully this is an isolated incident! The good thing was nobody was hurt.



Chris

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 07:06

Everybody will be jumping up and down and conveniently forgetting the murdering Israelis who killed peace activists in international waters.

Glynn


Joined: 25/03/2009
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 07:27

What on Earth has this got to do with Israel?

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 07:29

Hippo



There are no comparisons between the 2 incidents.



The Israelis boarded a boat intent on breaking their blockade after a multitude of warnings. The Israelis were met with extreme violence and the rest sadly is history.



This is a fishing boat with as far as we are aware no adverse intentions. No violence offered by those on the fishing boat so were warning shots really required ?? Probably best to wait and see if the full story develops.



The Mavi Marmara (MM) incident has been done to death (forgive the pun) on this forum but I watched a recent Panarama programme which included previously unseen footage from onboard and interviews with passengers. There was a hardcore element on the MM who were anything but 'peace activists' and who came prepared for violent confrontation. Continued.......

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 07:35

Continued......



In the words of the true peace activists on board, this group effectively 'hijacked' the MM and disobeying the directions of the leader of the flotilla to only provide 'passive' resistance, prepared for a battle.



Were the Israelis heavy handed....maybe, could the operation have been planned better....probably. Were they naive to base their actions on intelligence and assurances from the leaders of the flotilla that only passive resistance would be encountered......definately.



However, if I had been in the soldiers boots and faced with the same situation, my actions would probably have been the same.



Just my opinion of course.



Paul

Glynn


Joined: 25/03/2009
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 07:37

Paul.....The UN does not agree with you



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um9u6mBTgsI

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 08:41

strangely, this news item has not been repeated in any of the credible newspapers. Without knowing if the fishing boat was close to potential Turkish military targets it is impossible to say whether firing warning shots was necessary or not. Perhaps they were trying to avoid what happened to USS Cole in 2000?

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 09:06

Glynn



Re message 7



I know, and having just had a quick read of the UN report it makes very uncomfortable reading.



It indicates that some of those killed showed evidence of 'execution style' injuries, if this is the case then the perpetrators of these killings should face justice. In the confusion that reigns during the 'clearance' of a hostile ship, there is scope for mistakes to be made, adrenelin is pumping and soldiers are required to make split second decisions to protect themselves and their friends more often than not in the dark and in unfamiliar surroundings. As I said, mistakes can be made often with lethal consequences BUT if people were shot whilst lying injured on the deck then there is no excuse.



From what I could tell, the evidence used by the UN comes from some of those on board the flotilla. It will be very interesting to see what the Israelis come up with from their investigation.



Paul

Glynn


Joined: 25/03/2009
Posts: 192

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 09:32

Israel refused to co-operate with the UN enquiry, their own report will not be believed by the vast majority of people world wide.



The Fog of War/Red Mist has never been an excuse for murder (if that is what happened).

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 09:36

Anyone know anything more about this?



How could a fishing boat - in International waters - be a 'threat' to a TR military installation?!

Bernies


Joined: 21/09/2010
Posts: 95

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 10:04

it is also here

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=turkish-coast-guard-fires-at-greek-cypriot-trawler-ministry-says-2010-09-28

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 10:21

Glynn



I agree, it is no excuse for murder and as I said, if people were shot whilst lying undefended on the ground then there is no other word for it. I was merely trying to point out that during an operation of this sort, genuine mistakes can be made. In the dark, under threat of attack and amid the mayhem and confusion, what in hindsight turns out to be a piece of wood/a metal pipe etc, could at the time be mistaken for a weapon - the soldier has only a split second to decide. I am not saying that this is what happened on this occasion, but simply speaking from experience of having done similar on a number of occasions (albeit under an exercise and not real time situation).



As for the results of the Israeli investigation, I am sure that you are right but it will be interesting to see what comes out all the same. Maybe the two 'external' invigilators will add some credence to the results ?



Paul

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 11:23

m6, the instructions about how to put a huge hole in a US destroyer refuelling in a harbour are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing but of course this might have been prevented if the "small craft" containing 1000lb of explosives were to have had warning shots fired at it while it was in international waters.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 11:56

Dear malsancak



If the TR military were that 'concerned' they could have waited until the fishing boat entered 'TRNC' waters ...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 11:57

..we just don't know enough to form any conclusions..

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 13:36

There has been a lot of talk re oil recently. Maybe they thought thats what they were doing, not just fishing?

Even so in international waters its a bit OTT.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 19:58

To both Glyn and Paul the parody I was attempting to illustrate was that the Greeks will try and illuminate this on the on the world stage as an act of aggression and will use it as another item in their continued effort for sympathy.



Israel did a much more serious operation and although received much criticism and were judged guilty were not subject to any censure by the rest of the world.



We wait to see what mileage the Gc's make of this



We were across the cease fire line today and the Greeks were particularly difficult.



While the MM incident has been well discussed as I agree, and I have understanding of faults on both sides it still was an operation carried out in international waters.



I have little sympathy with the instigators of orchestrated violence by the peace convoy, but I have absolutely no sympathy with the Israelis who overreacted to the situation and could have handled it much more professionally.

Too long have they been painted as the good guys

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 20:17

if the boat had entered trnc waters , they could have sunk it , best to give them some warning shots me thinks .

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 21:01

im with u rowloshoot first questions later

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
29/09/2010 23:38

I would suggest that some of the posters on here reread the thread title and try to keep the thread on topic.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 09:20

AJ



Point taken., but at least there is a semblance of reasonable debate rather than the all too common slanging matches



"I'll get my coat"



Hippo



Agreed and understood



Paul

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
30/09/2010 13:38

I agree with mmmmmm and Rowlo. The boats could have both been outside national waters but who knows if it was a fishing boat and whether or not it came too close for comfort with intentions unknown. Could of had "Jack the Kipper" and "Al Caprawn" on board !