Solicitors Additonal Fees

Inca999


Joined: 25/11/2007
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 17:08

Hi Everyone



We along with some other clients of Talat Kursat have just been sent an e-mail

informing us that he intends to charge an additional £500 for title deeds plus £7.50 - £10.00 for each e-mail received and or answered. We have been dealing with Talat since Sept 06. In his original quote for fees he clearly states £1000 inclusive of all expences. I took this to mean he would under take to complete our purchase including obtaining the deeds.



Has anyone else received this type of letter from either Talat or a different solicitor ? Can anyone suggest where we can get advise on this matter ?



Anne

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 17:20

Hi Inca999, we use Talat Kursat in Girne. He has been ok with us up till now but we have only dealt with him since May 07. There was an incident where I emailed him a few times about a certain matter and his response wasn't great as in he was a bit unprofessional but other than the hes has beeen ok. He sent me an email about 4 months ago saying that after so many years on the english speaking lawyer list that he was being struck off because they wanted to make the list smaller. This was shortly after his unprofessionalism but i still sent him nice email arguing his case to the powers that be. i just thought it was better to react in that way rather than spit my dummy out if you know what i mean. Anyway let me know if you have any more problems or if you manage to sort things out.. it would be nice to keep in touch.

John.

Inca999


Joined: 25/11/2007
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 17:52

Hi John



Thanks for the reply. Can you tell me if you dealings with Talat are now complete ? Just wondering if it is just Sea Terra buyers he has hit with this.



Anne

cocos


Joined: 04/04/2008
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
16/08/2008 20:26

This is exactly the type of example that should be made public to stop the cluster of girne rip off merchant lawyers from ripping off further customers and being responsible for most of the property mess we now find ourselves in

simma



Joined: 03/02/2008
Posts: 346

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 00:23

Hi Anne,no we haven't finished our dealings yet.

Regards.

Geoff1131


Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 276

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 08:38

I could very soon be in the same boat. The advocate i have has apparently ( not to me yet, but to others who use her) been in touch and told clients that a further fee will be levied, also another letter of poa, to transfer title deeds. I was under the impession that the initial fee paid up front, was for everything concerning the property purchase.

In fact clause 3 of the original poa states ' To represent me at all Government offices within TRNC, particularly The District Lands Offices, to sign my name to and as my act and deed to take transfer of title deeds of any immovable property by way of sale and or by way of gift into my name, and to sign on my behalf all forms, documents and declarations necessary by the Laws of the TRNC to complete any such transactions'. So as you can see i thought i had paid for this. Elko if you are reading this HELP.

doughnuts40


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 09:17

Get in touch with the Homebuyers pressure group and the bar association. When one lawyer puts their fees up the rest follow suit.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 09:42

I agree message 7 if all involved nip this in the bud at the begining , this will be one less rip off .

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 18:45

solicitor and agents lead you to believe that it is a all in one of fee when you buy here. then they all charge extra for dealing with the collection of title deeds ect. you can do it for yourself for free. it does take a few days and the run around at a few different offices then a wait of about 4-6 weeks and all is complete.

truffles808


Joined: 16/10/2007
Posts: 183

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 20:01

We have also received this email from Talat re new fees. We purchased on Turtle Bay Village March 2006, and understood that our £1000 was to cover from start to finish representing us in TRNC for the purchase and completion of our property. This is just another in a long list of extra costs that we at TBV are been bombarded with.

doughnuts40


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
17/08/2008 20:16

Fire starter - the agents have no say in the matter of lawyers putting their fees up. The lawyers here are a band of con artists. Always agree a price and get what the fees include in writing up front. That way if they try and pull this scam you have something concrete to show the Bar association. If enough of you pull together and write complaint letters to Talat Kursat, Cyprus Today and any other publication there he might withdraw the extra fees and the other lawyers may be reluctant to follow suit. No wonder he was struck off the British High Commission recommended list!

doughnuts40


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 08:02

cypgab



http://ukincyprus.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/when-things-go-wrong/if-you-need-lawyer/list-lawyers-north-cyprus



Once in page on the right hand side is a box with yellow heading - List of lawyers in Northern cyprus. Click on this and it will give you the list.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 17:42

I think the link says it all really 'when things go wrong.' Should have an additional thread 'when you can't trust your lawyer'

Martin

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 20:32

our agent when we purchased also told us that the 1k we paid was for a fully start to finnish service. we were misled. we did all of the change over on title ourselves. even the sellers solicitor tried it on to get us to pay there stamp duty and taxes. but we were one step infront and didn't pay them!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 22:54

Seems the so-called solicitors operate a cosy little cartel.

rtddci


Joined: 29/12/2007
Posts: 842

Message Posted:
18/08/2008 23:03

Methinks is true...

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
19/08/2008 13:59

I always thought legal fees for property purchasers here were about 3 times too much for the work done anyway. This is especially so for the advocates who receive many clients from the same developer as the extra contract work for each additional client is likely to be minimal. In Australia I pay about a third for higher value properties and usually receive a barrage of paperwork certificates and council documents etc and foirst class service. Also properties there are worth at least 3 times as much making the percentage spent on legals here even worse.



Whilst I am happy with my advocate here I still think that things were too expensive before and are just getting worse.







My own theory is that advocates much be starting to struggle with cashflow after receiving soo much arround 2004-2006 before the market slowed down. Having spent this money they still have some work to do on the files with permission to purchase title deeds etc but are not receiving any where near as much new business. I have no hard evidence of this but think it makes sense.







Aussie

Geoff1131


Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 276

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 08:53

Just a question, does anyone know the proceedure for transfering title deeds?

Asuming ptp has been granted, what is the next step and the sequence through to exchange of deeds?

Gratefull for any advice.Geoff

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 09:05

There is a lesson to be learned from this posting. (though a little late for many of us)



When appointed an advocate WE SOULD INSIST ON A DETAILED LETTER OF APPOINTMENT

outlining what precisely he is going to do for his fee, and what else may need to be attended to that is outside of that fee. It is compulsory in the UK, and damned well should be. These Guys

or Gals are supposed to be professionals.



NEVER EVER appoint an Advocate reccommended by your builder or Estate Agent. They dont seem to have heard of CONFLICT of INTEREST over here.



wyn

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 11:49

The vendor must be willing to co-operate with the transfer.



If the property is full paid up you will need to pay VAT to the tax office. The vendor will need to pay his capital gains tax and any property tax outstanding. If you are planning to do this yourself you will need your passport with you to go to the Land Office to conclude the transfer and pay the 3% transfer fee. If contract is in joint names, both parties need to be present unless power of attorney has been given.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 11:55

Thanks for info Molly , what in the form of paperwork do we expect when we have paid ?. Can we see that we then an owner is recorded anywhere ? or is this just a transfer form there fore you have just transfered property from one to another. ?

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 11:57

Sorry, message 21 was in response to Geoff - message 19

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 12:10

When the transfer is completed you will be issued with a receipt by the Lands Office. You will be issued with the title deed (kocan) in due course. This is taking a couple of months at the moment because of the contract registration process earlier this year. Over 4000 contracts were registered and this had a huge impact on their work load.

harita


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 1343

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 12:37

Molly wrote

"If contract is in joint names, both parties need to be present unless power of attorney has been given."



Ours was a re-sale... Paid our money & off they sailed into the sunset...

All we have is our "Contract of Sale" agreement ... We have the Koçan in their names... When you state both parties need to be present ... Is that just the purchasers if it is in joint names...



Harita

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 13:10

Harita - the persons stated on the contract - vendors and purchasers - must be present for the transfer unless power of attorney has been given for the absent person(s). Obviously, the transfer can only take place if your permission to purchase has been granted.

ttoli


Joined: 24/03/2007
Posts: 1172

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 13:53

Although I agree, that they do see the Expats as cash cows, fees for e-mails/telephone calls are nothing unique, My solicitor in the UK charges for time spent emailing or on the phone.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 15:53

Hi All,

I also received a letter from Talat,so straight away emailed Carringtons,who dealt with it immediately.The second letter i received from Talat went something like this.



Since my last letter regaring fees i have been receiving complaints that the originally charged fees were understood to cover all work till completion.



Though i believe that i had never represented that my original fees were to include the actual conveyance.Yet as a firm we have decided to re-consider the matter.The conveyance procedure re-Jnuary 2008 was very simple and did not require a solicitor.The purchaser and the vendor himself would just appear before the land registry and sign the transfer certificate.The transfer tax would be paid there on the same day.And the purchaser would collect his deeds two weeks later.Now however this process involves a more complicated procedure.Yet in order not to upset anybody we have decided to complete the sale at no extra charge to any of our clients.



However some of our clients may have various disagreements with their vendors.And we are frequently asked to find a solution for them or they ask for our opinion regarding several different matters.



Since we have now agreed that our task is the contract preparation,obtaining permit to own the property purchased,and completion of the sale,we shall limit our task to these matters only.And of course answering any reasonable questions pertaining to this.If any client has a problem with his vendor and the matter is referred to us for help,we shall be only to happy to assist.But depending on the difficulty and importance of the problem.We may charge reasonable fees for such work.Also,should the law,or the present practice in conveyancing change in any way,thus entailing any more onerous work for completion (though this is not anticipated) we reserve our right to inform you in advance and seek your confirmation for any extra charge that may become necessay.



We hope you will agree to this and please disregard our previous mail regarding "new fees".



Hope this helps,

Regards,

Paul.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 16:00

Amazing what peer pressure can achieve .

Geoff1131


Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 276

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 16:15

Molly, thanks for the advise. I now live in TRNC so will do the transfer myself as soon as i get my ptp through. Some people who have the same advocate as me have been told they will have to pay extra for this service ( seems that being an advocate in TRNC is better that working at the royal mint)

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 16:27

Molly thanks for reply , could i ask furthur , so you paid youre money but are you still awaiting receipt and deeds ? or do you hold them in youre possesion ?

do you know if you are recorded in the land office that you are now the owner?

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 12:22

Pipie - whoever did the transfer would be given the receipt. This receipt is proof that the transfer was done and should be used to chase up the title deed. When the title deed is issued, the original is yours. However, many people leave the original with their lawyer (providing they trust them!) and keep a copy for their own records. The Lands Office records will then show that you are the registered owner.



If you wish to sell the property, you will need the original title deed.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 12:32

Thanks Molly , could i also ask the time of transfer to the time of actually getting deeds in owners hands .

Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 17:57

Pipie - a couple of months at the most. They have a back log and are still catching up.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 17:58

Thanks Molly .

windmill


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 19:35

Molly,are you the secretary of Peyman Erginel of Girne

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 10:26

I would join in the chorus of disapproval with reservations,

being the devil's advocate ha ha and make these comments:



firstly, property sales have dwindled to almost nothing,

to keep an office and practice in being means tapping into "extra funds"



secondly, solicitors in uk do seem to make charges clearer at the start

ie they do tell you in advance it will cost an arm and a leg

nonetheless the regulations change with dizzying randomness in trnc

ie the increasing complexity of getting your deeds

there are cultural differences here in cyprus,

at least in north cyprus you you don't pay £80 for a taxi ride

and £175 for a secondhand mobile...

(not quite correct, I know a lady who did!)



thirdly, the typical punter is in dire need of help and advice

you are in a region where yes doesn't always mean yes

and no doesn't always mean no

"commonsense" (the trickle-down dregs of 19th century philosophies)

doesn't always apply, but getting practical guidance can be had for free



lastly, do you want to do a lot of running around yourself?

you may prefer to feel in control however



andre

windmill


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 10:31

Hello Molly