Do Brit's contribute to TRNC economy. . ?

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 02:33

. . . Whilst reading one of the earlier posts, it was stated that 'without the Brit's in Cyprus, the locals would all be riding around on donkeys': in as much to say, that the 'British' are wholly responsible for the growth and development on the island. Now before you all jump for the shift key on the pc to begin your responses, is the comment directly or indirectly racist? Take the similar viewpoint and apply the same comment to somewhere like India, could it also be said that without the British Empire, they would be 'living in mud huts?'. . .

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 02:48

. Whilst reading one of the earlier posts, it was stated that 'without the Brit's in Cyprus, the locals would all be riding around on donkeys':



Wouldnt go that far,but would be true to say that without the brits ,they wouldnt be running about in Humvees and Landcruisers

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 02:53

Try expatriates and god only knows what the mainland Turk status is!



Richard

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 03:03

. . . Good viewpoint. . . But you may have missed the question. . . Was the statement racist, or . . . Could it possibly be regarded as 'bigoted' even . . ? . . . Donkeys or 4x4's. . Doesn't matter. . Where is the justification in the posting? . . btw. . I'm British. . .

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 09:42

Without the influx of property buying foreigners, the locals would have been reduced to a meagre existence - subsistance living; only boosted by Turkey's 'handouts'. There would have been no need for such an overstaffed bureaucracy and, consequently, the nepotism would not have been able to flourish to such an extent.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 10:04

Not just the Brits but the Russians and mainland investors as well as Turkish Cypriots from UK had contributed vastly to property boom (hence the 4x4s). The statement may not have been intended as racist but was not exactly correct either...

By the way, I hear the second hand car market is growing well whilst the sales of new cars are down to a fraction of whatthey were!

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 10:25

My neighbour has both, a BMW and a donkey.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 11:33

My neighbour is trying to sell his House ,Cars, Furniture ,To try to escape what he describes as this Excrementitious Isand......Perhaps there's something in the air?

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 11:54

. . . Recently the British Police force was described as 'institutionaly racist'. . . The same could be said of this forum if certain comments are left to go unchecked. . . . . And whilst I thank my fellow posters for their replies, only 2 of them acknowledged the original question. . . And I put this to you again. . Are British people racist?. . . Or is the word bigot a little less upsetting? . . Wouldn't want to offend the locals, would we?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 12:11

To think that Brits are holding the TRNC economy on their shoulders is rather exaggerating their importance a tad don't you think. My family has no connection with Brits what so ever and do very well. No doubt a lot of other TCs too. Can we stop referring to Turkey as propping up the whole economy. Considering what they have done to the TCs since the 50s just see it as punishment for the crimes they have committed. They are in fact merely paying the Civil Service. 2/3 of the workforce get along fine without any handouts from the old Gacos as it were.

As to the Racism in Britain you would have to have lived in the UK in the 60s and 70s to see real racism. Current institutionalised one is just a baby of the original.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 12:14

Some British people are racist in the true sense, but I feel most are not, they do have a habit of thinking they are superior to all others though in every respect. As to contributing to the economy, well overall if you look at all expatriates yes of course, we have several thousand Bulgarians here and many many Turkish and many other nationalities apart from British. Overall they of course play a significant role in the economy, individually not as big a role as many of them believe, imo.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 12:19

One cannot generalise a whole nation as "racist" - it would certainly be a very biased "opinion" based on own experiences.

My experiences in UK (all together 30 years in UK - I am A Turkish Cypriot) has shown, it depends on demographic and geographic divisions since Brits currently cover other ethnic minorities besides Scots, Irish and Welsh as well as English.

Going back to your question - the only way I know how to answer (based on own experiences) would be:

English people - living and working in immigrant dominated areas of UK - Mostly YES!

English in rural areas of UK - NO! even Friendly.

English living abroad - 50/50, but traces of colonial attitutes towards native residents still exist

Scots in Scotland - NO and Friendly. Slightly racist against English

Irish in general - NO, but mostly racist against English

Welsh in general - NO, Very friendly, strongly racist against the English

British Black population - they are Most Racist Brits - especially against other ethnic m

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 12:28

Pretty well said bigoz would have to agree with that.

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 12:52

. . Hi BigOz. . . Well put. . . My topic is directed to the thread with over 200 postings. . . '. . 4th Oct protest, London'. . . And in one of the replies, there is this very negative (imo) post that (imo) serves no other point, but to belittle the local population. . . I feel ashamed, sad and embarrassed. :(

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 15:35

Traveller



Whilst I don't know the post that you are referring to, please bear in mind that the thread is about a protest being conducted by people who have been ripped off in the main by local builders. Regrettably, but perhaps understandably, emotive language will be used. These people are angry (justifiably) and whilst we all know that the vast majority of TC's are fair minded and law abiding citizens, as in all walks of life, the actions of the minority blacken the good name of the majority.



Is this rascism or bigotry ?? Only the authors of the post can say for sure. I personally think that it is a group of frustrated individuals who have no other avenue to vent their anger except this forum.



It is also worth mentioning that Brits are not the only ones capable of racism/bigotry, you only have to read what some TC's say about their mainland and GC 'cousins' - it would make your hair curl



Paul

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 17:31

Traveller



Some times things or statements are discriminatory or rascist but cannot be stated or done in any other way.



For example there is a problem with peoples atitude to litter in NC ,thats a fact .

I and most others would not rent out to locals in NC thats a fact,

Most of us wouldnt trust a lawyer in NC further than you could throw him ,thats a fact.



Rascist/discrimantory? or realistic .

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 18:16

europeans are keeping the island afloat with help from turkey

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 18:20

cyprusairsoft,



No, Turkey is and always has been keeping the TRNC afloat with help from all expatriates not just Europeans, if we all left it would still stay afloat, we would just be replaced, see the large numbers of Turkish people here now visiting and purchasing.

Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
Posts: 360

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 18:23

I would like to hope that in some small way my money helps the economy. In return I get a lovely place to live.

Not a bad swap in my mind. I am not trying to float the economy I would not be so idiotic as to think I could.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 18:27

Jefferson I think you are correct, we all contribute, but some overestimate the "contribution value" and how relevant it is.

nurseawful



Joined: 06/02/2009
Posts: 5934

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 20:41

Message 12,

Do we contribute to the TRNC economy?



Today I left the house at 0800hrs came home at approx 12noon. Had a quick shower as I was having an afternoon off!!

NO I then went to Alsancak to see a lady with a problem. Arrived at the place I had a date with, left there approx 1500hrs. Just got home had another call from Alsancak back out. Hubby really p....d off. Do i contribute to the economy??? What do you think?



Chris

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 23:19

. .. . . . There were two topics in this thread. . . The economic factor, ie the effect of expats living abroad and contributing to the economy. . . . . But the real issue (topic) and the sad part of some of the comments and one in particular, that I've read on here is, the wide brush that paints all the indiginant population as 'peasant farmers'. Cypriot's can be two categories, or even three if you include the UK TC's . . . Let's look at the ones who came after 74. . . . Whom were given land by the government. There is a term used by the TC's for their mainland cousins, pronounced . . 'Gadge-o' . . . Which in my opinion. . . is a direct racist comment. I say to the moderators on Cyprus44 in conclusion. . . Free speech. . . Yes. . . The right to protest. . . Yes. . . . But racist comments? . . .

BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 23:40

I contributed to the TRNC economy this morning. I bought a packet of brown chocalate biscuits from Supreme and whilst we are on the subject of racism they were called Negro!

Traveller0392


Joined: 21/03/2008
Posts: 186

Message Posted:
05/10/2010 23:54

. . . Ha ha. . . 'nice'. . But you're on a 'breakaway' from the 'topic'. . .some where around the 'milkyway' past 'mars'. An unfortunate name I agree. . Turkish brand by the way.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 00:10

Everyone contributes without even realising just how much! All of you who pay their mobile bill every month 45% goes to Government in taxes! And all those who drive - you sure pay a small fortune in taxes! If you use a mobile and drive a car, have no worries YOU ARE CONTRIBUTING GENEROUSLY!

nicolab


Joined: 30/09/2010
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 00:11

in my opinion .. its petty! its a petty argument and i have to agree with msg 11 and 12!

the original comment was wrong. the economies of all countries depend on immigration, migration, exchange, trade etc for one nation to be supporting the lot is ridiculous



but on the other hand for the taxi drivers union to be up in arms about illegal workers and british (mostly) stealing their trade we must have had a major hand in it at one point for them to be feeling the pinch of us being independant. were maybe responsable for the rise in prices - or is it just me that thinks they see pale skin/sunburn and charge double when theres no tag?? - remember nc is a poor but developing country. the average wage here would never support us (my family) back in britain

nicolab


Joined: 30/09/2010
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 00:18

before any backlash .. i dont want to start the taxi debate over again, thats not my intention, but nc itself without any of these factors would be sand and farms! without the support from turkey or any expats living or visiting here the people would survive without us in their own way. humans as a race would be extinct otherwise. we are able to grow fruit and veg, we have livestock, water, sun .. they managed perfectly well before we came here as do all yet-to-be-discovered-areas

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 00:22

Nico

There is an epidemic in not just the service industry but inherent in all aspects of TRNC society which has come to the fore starting from about 8 years ago, it's called GREED! It's getting no better.



Richard

nicolab


Joined: 30/09/2010
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 00:32

of course!

thats why theyre spending a fortune on new hotels .. theyre not satisfied with what theyve got and want to promote this part of the island to the rest of the world



im not going to pretend i know everything about this place .. only been here a few months

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 00:58

Best not to stray into the "new hotel" area - very iffy... and I am not so sure promoting this part of the island is the real reason for any of them! God knows, we have enough hotels facing bankruptcy because of not enough customers throughout the whole year!

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 01:10

Nico

A few months?! I've been here (not continuously) for near on 12 years and I know zero! Worry not, just 'don't let the buggers get you down' (sic) !



Richard

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 02:51

Turkey keeps the TRNC going - for its own security. Of course tourists/expats etc contribute but Turkey will always make up the difference!

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 05:36

My Blackpool in the sun .............. mmmmmmmmmmm !!!!

Pennies spent ........ and all being well the pockets of the shroud will be empty. x

CyprusChill


Joined: 08/05/2009
Posts: 666

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 05:42

... The donkey's can then ... chew on my garden with there cousins the goat's.

But not till then...



(All being well the Builder will have finished the site also ..)

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 08:08

Everyone who lives in the TRNC contributes to the economy in one way or another.



From a personal perspective, I am totally 'legal' in that my wife and I have temp residency, have TRNC driving licences, both our dogs have licences, 10% of my rent is paid to the government, we run two cars (both taxed and MOT'd) and estimate that in total, we probably spend about £14k a year to live here. Whilst I appreciate that a significant proportion of this money goes to private enterprise, the government gets a healthy slice through KDV and other taxes. I don't know how much other 'Brits' spend per year, but with approx 10,000 Brit expats on the island, the contribution is not insignificant. If you then factor in the money paid to the government in property taxes, the figure becomes even greater.



What cannot be ignored is that the expat property boom of the past 10 years has changed the island completely - for better or for worse is another question.



Paul

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 22:11

just one point re Turkey keeping us afloat!!!!

did you know that Turkey is the worst embargoe implementor of them all!!!The TRNC CANNOT EXPORT TO ANY country including Turkey.





During the 80s the Turkish president Ozal realised that the TRNC was exporting more goods into Turkey , and Turkey was exporting less to the TRNC. Seeing this defecit, Ozal stopped all imports from the TRNC. Thus reducing to trnc to relying on Ankaras handouts, Turkey give us fish so that we eat, but they refuse the give us the fishing line so we can feed ourselves. We are the stepping stone to Turkeys EU membership.

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 22:53

Good grief moxie - you mean all those lorries full of citrus are heading for the harbour to dump them in the sea?..... I'm shocked.

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
06/10/2010 23:04

i think you will find out that these citrus fruits are part of exchanged goods....between Turkey and the TRNC

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
07/10/2010 08:26

see BigOz on newlads post :Turkey wants a return ,i think he explains it better tham me

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
07/10/2010 09:03

Not quite true moxie,



Regarding the foreign trade, Turkey remains, by far, the main trading partner of North Cyprus, supplying 60% of imports and absorbing over 40% of exports. In a landmark case, the European Court of Justice (ECJ) ruled on July 5, 1994 against the British practice of importing produce from the area based on certificates of origin and phyto-sanitary certificates granted by TRNC authorities. The ECJ decision stated that only goods bearing certificates of origin from the 'Government of Cyprus' could be recognized for trade by EU member countries. The ECJ decision resulted in a considerable decrease of Turkish-Cypriot exports to the EU - from US$36.4 million (or 66.7% of total Turkish-Cypriot exports) in 1993 to US$13.8 million in 2003 (or 28% of total exports)-. Even so, the EU continues to be the second-largest trading partner of North Cyprus, with a 25% share of total imports and 28% share of total exports. Total imports increased to US$853.1 million in 2004 (from

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
07/10/2010 09:04

(from US$477.7 million in 2003), while total exports increased to US$61.5 million (from US$50.6 million in 2003). Imports from the U.S. reached US$7.1 million in 2004, while exports to the U.S. were less than US$10,000.



from http://www.cypnet.com/north_cyprus_about_cyprus_economy.php

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/10/2010 09:47

Pugwash - where do you gey these figures and are you sure they are factual? What is our biiggest export to EU at the moment? Are the values of imports correect? Forget about 2003/4, what are the figures for imports and exports last year (2009 )?



Just to give you an example, most people under declare values of imported goods as much as 50% to pay less VAT and/or duty! I have little respect for what statisticians in any country say because they are always using adultered figures.



You also evade the actual monetary values for the exports to and imports fron Turkey. What is the revenue for the 40% of exports to Turkey? and how much do we have to pay for 60% of the imports. What is our total trade deficit for last year and how much of it is with Turkey?



There is also the unseen, unaccounted for money flow / imports, by hundreds of thousands of shopping visits - by air or sea every year. Not all of these are your avarage tourist purchases but a lot are actually commercial goods!

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/10/2010 10:14

Furthermore, I have done some online research and have come up with different (official) figures for the real status of trade with Türkiye. See:

http://www.mc-med.eu/Private/Research-Conferences/Wolfson/W1Presentations-Papers/VedatYorucu.pdf

In 2004 TRNC imported 512.4 million USD worth of goods from Turkey and exported 28.7 million USD worth of goods back to same!

Of the total 790 million USD trade deficit in 2004, 485 million was with Turkey! The rest was the whole of EU and other countries.

I believe, during Turgut Özal era, TRNC exports to Turkey far outweighed imports from the same - but not exactly sure at this time.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/10/2010 10:23

I just found about the figures for 2005! TRNC imported 817 million USD worth of goods from Turkey and exported 34 million USD worth of goods back to same!

An increase of: more than 300 million in imports, and a measly 5.5 millions on exports!

flawww


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
07/10/2010 11:57

Take the similar viewpoint and apply the same comment to somewhere like India, could it also be said that without the British Empire, they would be 'living in mud huts?'. . .



Well, thats quite far fetched as it wasn't the British who devoured India of its wealh in the first place !!!



@Bigoz

So we are looking down the drain with more imports than exports. Eventually its 'cos of most of the cypriots have earned it by selling their land/house, what's next when the state is not running on industry or exports but on wealth accumulated for a time span and then kapeesh... it dust evaporates by time without getting any returns on it!!!