Can Greeks and Turks ever live peacefully together

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 17:55

An extract from Famagusta gazette:

-------------------------------------

"According to the reports, published in every northern Cyprus daily, the windows of three shops and a vehicle owned by Turkish Cypriot inhabitants were smashed last night by unknown vandals.



The bust of Ataturk in the village’s Turkish Primary School was also desecrated with white chalk paint, reports BRT.



Issuing a written statement today, Turkish Cypriot “Foreign Minister” Turgay Avci said the village had been subject to frequent such attacks in the not too distant past and blamed Greek Cypriots for “failure to punish those responsible for similar attacks in the past.”



The village is special in the respect that it is the only settlement in Cyprus still inhabited by both its original Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot inhabitants peacefully."

----------------------

Any views welcome!



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 18:08

If five acts of vandalism, probably by children, have prompted you to start a thread entitled: "Can Greek and Turks Ever Live Peacefully Together" I think you need to take a good look at yourself.

Stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 18:42

Pte Pike



Some people dont want them to live together and would rather the status quo continued because they have their own agenda.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 18:46

Ain't it so!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 18:50

salih



we don,t want too live with the greeks and the greeks don,t want to live with us if the truth be told .

a spark in a powder keg comes to mind.



keep safe mate

musin

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 19:00

I think it won't be long before people who can be trusted to look after Cyprus will be making history.



Shame there's always some losers but they should look on the bright side - it wasn't their property in the first place and they might have a better chance of getting into Heaven.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 20:57

SUSANNE

i will tell you why ,becouse there are too many turks too mess with,even the

greeks are not that stupid

and who says that they are living in harmony in pile ,you really must keep up susanne.



ps : you must have a greek map.

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 21:12

The Greek church have three objectives when it comes to Cyprus

1) Enosis

2) Enosis

and yes you probably guessed the third.

As a non voting ex pat my view holds no sway, but after all the false promises from the EU coupled with the distrust of the other side, the referendum (later next year) will be a resounding no for reunification.

Michael.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 21:19

Yes! Given the opportunity!



Give peace a chance!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 21:44

wyn



we have peace in cyprus already ,thanks too turkey





give the kktc a chance,we ask no more no less.



regards

musin

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 22:54

Just because you don't live in a particular country, it does not mean you do not know what is going on. I don't live in the TRNC but I feel I know more about its history and current day problems than the history of the country I presently live in.



If Cyprus was for Cypriots (as you have said) and you was saying this from your heart, I doubt you would be so accusing in your threads.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 22:56

Speaking of the peace loving pro settlemnt orthadox Church Here is the latest courtesy of todays Cyprus Mail





Theocracy or totalitarian regime? Church and State in furious row

By Marcos Charalambides



CHURCH and State yesterday squared off in a furious row over the government’s handling of the Cyprus problem.



The sniping began on Tuesday night, when the Bishop of Paphos directly attacked the government’s handling of the Cyprus problem, bringing the smoldering hostilities between Archbishop Chrysostomos II and President Dimitris Christofias to a festering climax.



In a speech given as part of this year’s International Conference for Overseas Cypriots – the Bishop of Paphos Georgios, speaking on behalf of the Archbishop who was abroad visiting China, vehemently criticised the President for his proceedings concerning the new negotiations due to start next month.



The Bishop challenged the government’s proposals regarding the form of the state and the system of rotating presidency, asserted that the island’s problem was being degraded and, furthermore, rebuked the government’s decision to allow Turkish Cypriots to cross over to Kokkina on August 8.



“Simple common sense is evoking questions and anxiety,” observed the Bishop while reciting the Archbishop’s speech. “We are seeking convincing information and are requesting elucidations even for that which all politicians consider obvious: that the solution will come from the Cypriots and will be for the Cypriots.”



He claimed that the current handlings “degrade [the Cyprus problem] from an invasion problem to a bicommunal dispute,” and wondered whether “the acceptance of a rotating presidency conforms to the principles and values of the European Union.”



He further criticised the government for allowing Turkish Cypriots to cross over to Kokkina “to celebrate the murders of unarmed people”, and questioned whether it was necessary to pass it over in silence, adding that remaining silent does not aid the negotiations. The Turkish Cypriots were commemorating Turkish air strikes in 1964 that relieved the besieged enclave of Kokkina, about to be overrun by Greek Cypriot forces in heavy intercommunal fighting. A number of Greek Cypriot civilians were killed in the attacks.



The President returned fire soon enough, immediately retaliating before the same audience. He emphasised that the state “is not theocratic. It is a modern state which emerged from the Zurich-London agreements in 1960 and it is a partnership with our Turkish Cypriot compatriots.” Christofias added that the Greek Cypriots needed to realise that if they continued to pursue patriotism “in the name of religion, in the name of our cultural heritage and our heroes then we will be completely destroyed”.



In a pointed jibe against the Archbishop, the President pointed out that he was elected President by 53 per cent of the people, not, like the Archbishop “by 8 per cent, not by 10 per cent, nor by 15 per cent”, before apologising for his tone. “I won’t accept lessons in patriotism,” he protested.



By morning, battle was resumed: “[The state] may not be not theocratic, but neither is it totalitarian,” responded the Bishop of Paphos yesterday. “Everyone is entitled to have an opinion and to express a different point of view.” He supported that Christofias’ outburst must have been a result of the President either misunderstanding the Archbishop’s intentions or having a lot on his mind that evening. “We are simply asking for elucidations,” explained the Bishop, who emphasised, “we never said that [the President] is acting erroneously.”



Yet, when a reporter asked him whether these statements weren’t actually strong accusations that the Greek Cypriot side was adopting Turkish positions, he replied “but aren’t we?” He observed that the Archbishop speaks for the entire Holy Synod, at least the majority of whi

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 23:01

ah susanne

you have your eric hat on ,i was in cyprus just last week ,and i speak as a cypriot a turkish one unlike you i am not a plastic cypriot i am a real one .

your first question ,do you believe cyprus does not have peace,

do you really believe you greeks want to live with us and if you ever get the

chance too ,will you try to kill my family again,can we trust you.

recent history tells us that all you have done is pushed and pulled us turkish

around ,i personally have grown up in britain as a direct consequence of the

greeks."you thought i lived in london " does that have any bearing on the peace in cyprus i don,t think so .whatever happens in cyprus in the future the turkish army will be there just so the peace can continue .



long live the kktc

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 23:18

aussie



and all this before we start talks ,what does that tell you .

all answers on a s.a.e please .







long live the kktc

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 23:25

susanne

does that include the ones in britain ,becouse if it does we are going to need more land .

you are such a hypocrite

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
21/08/2008 23:26

Thanks for your kind offer but I think I'll stick around Susanne.



Sorry but I feel that you are making accusations. You are telling a TC that he does not know what is happening just because he lives in London. Surely you can see that this is a ridiculous statement?



Many GC and TC left the island because of the troubles....this does not mean it isn't still seen as their home.

windmill


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
22/08/2008

Pike is getting quicker,it only took him 30 mins to become Susanne

He is thick as pig s t

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
22/08/2008 08:59

To Private Pike,



And what about the agenda of those such as yourself who wish to make the impossible happen. The Cyprus problem was solved in 1974, hard to accept for some, but true. Pipedreams should be confined to the water from Turkey!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
22/08/2008 11:46

Windmill: "Pike is getting quicker,it only took him 30 mins to become Susanne

He is thick as pig s t "



Do you want the moderators to get you back in line?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
22/08/2008 11:47

Frontal msg 21,



If you explain what this "impossible" thing is I may be able to answer you.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
22/08/2008 12:31

Pike (Susanne)

Your comment:

"how come tcs & gcs live very well together in the UK!!?? & have done in Pyla for centurys"



Turks and Greeks live side by side but do not mix in Pyla. Greeks do not go to the Turkish shops and do not go to their cafes, basically do not want to do any business with them.



As to why a lot of different nations can live together in England is because no one has tried to do ethnic clensing on another nation in England and no one has been forced to leave their homes due to fear of their lives.



Biker

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
22/08/2008 22:21

susanne

i have already answered that question ,there are too many turks to mess with

in britain and secondly who said there was no anomosity there is plenty and all coming from the greek community.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
22/08/2008 23:50

hi sue

actually you have got it wrong in pile even thou it has peace there, it is policed by the u.n, both sets of people do live side by side but turkish cypriots go to their own cafes and greek cypriots go to their cafes and if they was so peacefull why did the greeks there still say no to the anan plan when clearly they are living together anyway!!!!

and again most if not all of both communities left way before 74 hence why they went to the u.k because they had british passports cos of the empire

belive you me there is still some anomosity but they have learned to live with it because there is no bull propaganda being feed down their throats in the u.k plus they had to deal with other kinds of discrimanation and hassle in the early days from the welcoming far right wing british people who in them times did not want any cypriots, pakistanis indians, blacks from africa and jamica in their country taking their jobs

in todays society they do live together and are friends in the u.k but the youth once they go to cyprus on their long hols on both sides dont want to know and instantly get a chip on their shoulders

ukturk



p.s aswell as pile there are two other villiages which are mixed one is dipkarpaz where they are supposed to live peacefully but greek cypriots are supplied their food etc by the u.n because they refuse to buy from their local market they have also opened their own gc school only for greeks which one greek english women complained about the school cos they were getting taught anti turkish and british propaganda!!!! the other villiage is derelikoy where their is actually two mayors one turk the other greek but most turks who did live their have since moved away

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 11:34

Ukturk,



You didn't mention the mixed village of Potamia. Why not visit this place as I did and speak to the Greek and Turkish Cypriots living together there? The TCs there don't seem to spout the looney separatist nationalist guff one or two BB members (whose allegience to Cyprus is questionable) are notorious for making.





The Guardian July 14, 2004



Potamia village, Cyprus — symbol of the future





Steven Katsineris



"Please let it be known that we are a living example of the sort

of place Cyprus could be."



Ibrahim Azziz,

Turkish Cypriot writer and resident of Potamia.



Before the Turkish invasion of 1974, Cyprus was dotted with

ethnically mixed villages. There is a popular mistaken perception

that since partition Cyprus has been divided between the two

separate populations, with Turkish Cypriots living exclusively in

the Turkish-occupied north and Greek Cypriots in the Republic of

Cyprus in the southern part of the island.



This is not an accurate reflection of the situation, especially

in regards to the south of Cyprus. Here Turkish Cypriots still

live peacefully together in villages and towns with their Greek

and other Cypriot compatriots as citizens of the Republic of

Cyprus. The largest of these mixed villages is Pyla with 900

Greek Cypriots and 500 Turkish Cypriots.



Another one of these places is the village of Potamia. It is

nestled against a hillside surrounded by beautiful orchids in the

island's central plain, bordering the "green line" — the zone

that divides the rest of Cyprus from the occupied north. The

village is one of the truly mixed villages in which Turkish

Cypriots continue to live and work together with other Cypriots

making a living from the land.



Potamia is a quiet community of mainly farmers and commuters from

Nicosia. It is a small village with only 448 inhabitants, with

several village coffee shops (or tavernas, as the preferred

meeting places), restaurants and a primary school. There is not

much to distinguish the two communities.



In the evenings Turkish and Greek Cypriots gather in Potamia's

cafis to talk, joke and play backgammon. All the inhabitants are

fluent in Greek and Turkish Cypriot dialects.



"In this village there are two mother tongues and there has never

been a war with hate. Since Ottoman times, both communities have

lived happily, side by side. We looked at the village of Ayios

Sozomenos down the road and knew that's what we didn't want to

be," said Ibrahim Azziz. The nearby village of Ayios Sozomenos

just one kilometre to the north was bitterly fought over in 1964

and then abandoned by its people.



It is a relatively comfortable village with well cared for homes

and pretty fields and with a new community building that serves

as the community headquarters where the two muktars (the villages

community leaders) Panicos Yiatrou and Hussein Hami meet together

to represent their people — the 48 Turkish Cypriots and 400

Greek Cypriots of the village. Turkish Cypriots were once in the

majority in Potamia, but many left when ethnic conflict broke out

in 1964, some of them returned in later years.



After the Turkish invasion an estimated 250 Turkish Cypriots left

again, settling in the north. Ibrahim Azziz was one of those who

urged his fellow Turkish Cypriots to stay. Some have returned

since, with more coming back each year, but some families remain

divided.



When middle-aged Turkish Cypriot mason Hilmi Ermin fled the

Turkish occupied north, crossing the 'border' during the night he

went straight to Potamia. He was warmly welcomed and in 2002 his

son also escaped and joined him in Potamia. He is now waiting for

his wife and two daughters still on the other side to be reunited

with him.



Since the lifting of travel restrictions by the Turkish

authorities in April

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 14:37

Susanne,



Why on earth would you want to "shut up a few people on here?"



Isn't the point of forums to discuss and challenge views?

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 14:54

someone suffering from schizophrenia?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 15:38

Kinda puts the loony separatist/ultra nationalists into the dunce's corner. Cyprus for the Cypriots.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 16:23

Most people would acknowledge there are/were villages where GC's and TC's lived peacefully together but this doesn't explain/ excuse the violence and problems that happened in most areas since the exclusion of TC from the government etc after 1963.



While many on both sides could live together their are a lot of GC extremists who still want total domination of the island. Based on reading some of the southern papers bulletin boards and the statement of various Bishops such extemists still exist in large numbers.



The turkish people who stayed behind in mainland Greece after the populations exchanges in the 1920s still suffer a lot of discrimination as do the Greeks who stayed in Turkey.



I think the current ramping up of property claims to include the Karpas etc bodes badly for the likelyhood of reaching an acceptable settlement to both sides after a promising start.





Aussie

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 18:05

msge 28



Interesting posting PP.



I have asked myself why has this village worked and what would inhibit it from working on a larger scale? (Based on the info in the article)



What has made it work?



*Everybody speaking each others language

*Small autonomous group - humans do well in small groups. We are still goverened by tribal instincts. Nearly five hundered inhabitants is larger than most tribes but it is still relatively small

*It seems fairly autonomous with it's own radio station etc. I see that in 2002 the community reached out to 11 other communities but it does seem quite self contained.

*Critically it seems to have a history of survivng the conflict (although many TC's left) unlike the other village which was quoted in the article.

*A history of co-existence which has survived for many years



What would inhibit it working on a larger scale?



*As soon as you ramp things up to a larger scale you have to include other factors. Unlike Potamia Cyprus doesn't just contain Cypriots it contains other nationalities. I understand why the GC's want the Turkish settlers off the island. It would make life so much easier, but I feel it is wrong to ask them to leave. It is home now for many of them. This presents a big challenge in terms of language and cultural differences. I really can't see these two groups mixing well at all.

*Unlike Potamia most of Cyprus didn't survive the conflict and there is no history of co-exsistence (except between the elders). There is a history of mistrust. Talat himself has said that the vast majority of TC's want the protection of the Turkish army. As Aussie has said extremists still exist in large numbers, particularly the church.

*Each group has different interests in some areas. The most notable interest is territory. Aussie has pointed out that the GC's want the whole of the Karpas. This isn't looking promising.



At the end of the day I believe that all communities can live together, but not necessarily in harmony. My local community must be one of the most ethnically diverse that there is. There are probably four main groups the Brits, the Poles, the Indians and the Somalians. I watch how these groups interact.



There is some limited interaction between differering member groups who share common interests (church, sport etc) who have been born in to the community. The vast majority of groups just keep themselves to themselves. There is virtually no mixing between the groups whatsoever and ceratinly no marriages. I guess this is fine, each group just leaves each other alone, just projecting their fears on to the other group, which keeps them seperated and tense.



If the aim of multi cultural Britain is for people just to live together then it has achieved that. If the aim was for people to live together mixing and conversing together in harmony then it has failed this miserably.



How do you ensure that groups don't end up waring? Well you create racial laws, which they will have to do in Cyprus. It's not ideal, it creates it's own problems, but the TC's will need to ensure they are in place so that they don't get dominated by the GC's.

Laws are also the natural consequence of much larger groups.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
24/08/2008 22:15

i did say there are two other villages other than pile, ok then u mention derelikoy turkish name is a place which had a turkish majority prior to the communial conflicts when this broke out nearly all turkish cypriots fled to the north, and in present day there is only 20% turkish in the villiage population

the villiage have been lobying and pushing for the old turkish villiagers to come back and yes they do have a radio station which broadcasts in turkish and greek and they have a joint mayors working together



not sure how this will shut most of us up, the reason why these villiages live in peace is because they cant exactly be fighting among themselves so they basically have learned to live and co exisit together does not mean they are best of frriends does it!!!!

im neither a separatist or ultra nationalists i am a realist!!!! and just because these villiages people have not killed or fought among themselves does not mean all the villiages in cyprus can do the same does it and who ever thinks that should be sent to the dunces corner!!!!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
25/08/2008 00:24

i believe that there can be a solution for all cypriots. i think that the villages which were mixed should be returned as so. villages that were all tc or gc villages again should be returned as so. with the international mix of european people also living in cyprus this should keep a calm balance on things.not everyone will want to return but should have the chance. it will take some very strong people to make it work but i do believe that everyone should give it a chance. i often ask people, do you want to see cyprus as it is 20 years from now? the uk had part in a war with germany, we don't hate all germans. sh-t happens but you have to move on. it is 2008 not the 1970's if cyprus doesn't move on it will be left behind.

dirty harry


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
25/08/2008 00:33

biker

Read ........Living side by side in Palestine By Safi Abdi @www.AuthorsDen.com



You may find it interesting.

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
25/08/2008 00:45

Not sure living side by side again will ever work, to many old issues and settlement with repartriation rights may instigate a whole load of new issues.

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
25/08/2008 15:04

Someone told me that Lapta was 50/50 TC to GC prior to 1960, but 95% GC in 1974 pre intervention, can anyone shed some light on this please?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
25/08/2008 21:39

i don't know for sure but it sounds about right. there was a map floating around on another forum which showed the tc areas prior to 1974.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
26/08/2008 14:30

Frontalman



What you quote about Lapta is probably true for a lot villages, because of Greek policy to try and force Turkish people to sell and emigrate, there was a lot people who found the solution as selling and escaping until 1974.



This was either to get away from anomicities towards them or because they were offered to pay high amounts for their land.

This was Makarios's plan to rid the island of Turks and it was to be done gradually.

But Greece and Nikos Sampson were not so patient and they tried to do it with a coup and ethnic clensing in 1974.



Everyone knows the rest...



Biker

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
26/08/2008 15:21

I do know the history quite well, but the period of the troubles between the fifties and 1974 is obviously a time when major distortions of population took place. It's the period pre 1960 I'm interested in. Is there anyone out there who has info regarding population splits pre-independence?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
26/08/2008 15:28

I can't help you in answering your question Frontalman.

I am curious as to what you hope to learn?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
26/08/2008 21:47

frontalman go down to your local coffee shop and ask some of the older cypriots, they will be able to help you.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
26/08/2008 22:39

Took the words from my mouth. That's also the place to go to find out more about title deed origins for property.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 13:00

PtePike

As reference to " local coffee shop and ask some of the older cypriots"

You replied.

"That's also the place to go to find out more about title deed origins for property. "



So you think the best place to find about title deeds origins is at the local cofee shop, rather than the Deeds office?



Did I understand this correctly?



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 13:08

Hi Biker,



As one who possibly spends more time in Cyprus than you, I can inform you that the local land registry (tapu) will not let buyers do a property search. This is to stop people realising the property they are going for belongs to a Greek Cypriot and making the market even worse than it is. So my advice to speak to locals and do your research is good. It's called "due diligence" and only a fool ignores it. Note my previous advice to go to the RoC land registry. They hold the only legal records in Cyprus.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 16:41

You are so wrong PtePike.



How do you know how much time I spend in Cyprus?



Before any property is sold it is declared what kind of deed it has and buyers do know what they are buying. In any case exchange land has exactly the same merits as pre 74 land as it is backed by the Turkish government, which has been the government of the North for the last 34 years.



You can still dream that the only legal records are held by Greeks.



The only illegal government is the current Greek regime as the Republic was formed to be a coalition of Greeks and Turkish until the Turks have been kicked out in 1963.



Biker

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 18:10

Ptepike



You must keep track of what name you are logged in as.



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 18:15

Biker,



Let's put on a bet over whether Susanne and myself are the same person! I know it's unusual to have two or more people talking common sense on a NC BB. Fiver, tenner, 100?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 18:18

But seriously, where's the evidence the TCs were forced out of the unitary government in 1963? I thought the accepted version was that TCs withdrew from public positions and the polititians simply walked out of parliament (with a little help from the TMT).

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 18:30

The evidence is that EOKA was going around villages and killing off Turkish people.

Would anyone with any brains stay in a paliament building where there were being threatened with guns. TCs were pushed from with a lot of help from the EOKA



Re your comments:

"Let's put on a bet over whether Susanne and myself are the same person! I know it's unusual to have two or more people talking common sense on a NC BB."

So you think only you two are only talking sense on this forum and everyone else is not ??? Is this your assumption? How many members does this form have?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 21:08

salih

bu insanlara sut beyaz dir dersan deycekler siyah dir ,ayni insan dil lar

hepsi de bilir, yada iki hiyar var.



evidence for t/cs been forced out of unitary goverment in 1963,you will find all

answers at the local coffee shop ...allegedly.



musin

long live the kktc

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 21:17

Msg57 What do you mean "White man speak with forked tongue"?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 21:19

Biker,



Well I think two of us are at least representing the common world view on Cyprus. I think some people can get a bit wrapped up in their own way of thinking without having the ability to take a look from the outside. A reality check, if you will.

panhandler


Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
28/08/2008 23:26

Waz over in the south last year and found the goverment tourism guides to be heavily hostile and critical of Turkish Cypriots, was constantly lambasted by vemenous comments regading Turkish peaple and the 'occupation' as they put it.

Never trust a Greek bearing gifts or any other offering come to think about it



Never got any biased comments from Turkish Cypriot tourist officials funny enough.



Based on that episode i personally see no real Immediate harmonious solution to the problem

Panhandler

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 00:11

some friends of our purchased what the estate agent insisted was turkish title. 3 years later just before getting their kochan they were told it was exchange land. they are pretty fed up to say the least. the estate agent and the lawyer used my friends ignorance to stuff them. more people need to be brave and go to the roc to check the title deeds before enterning into any purchase.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 12:35

Eric

Your Quote:

" I think two of us are at least representing the common world view on Cyprus"



Is absolutely right.

You are representing the common Greek view and I am representing the common Turkish view.

At least we agree on something.

Have a good day.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 16:37

Susanne



Can he not speak for himself, or are you his eterny ?



Or are you just confused who you are?

dirty harry


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 00:05

pike/susanne





what common world view are you retards refering to, 95%of the world probably has no idea cyprus exists, 4.99999999 % could'nt give a toss,the remaining 0. something %, like yourselves,dum and dummer can go on forever

expressing your views which 99.999999999% of the world do not really care.



dh





ps , you can put your word across without resorting to being so personal by using words like retard ------- moderator

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 00:12

dh



go ahead punk pull the trigger ,ezra i like your posts keep em coming





regards

musin

long live the kktc

dirty harry


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 00:44

shalom

my turkish cypriot friend god bless you and all your fellow turkish cypriots

may you and the kktc prosper and outlive your foe with contempt.



peace be with you and your kin............

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 10:58

Hello Eric



Whilst I agree in principle with most of what you say, why do you keep calling the TRNC occupied...yes if we are going to be pendantic it is occupied, occupied by the turkish cypriots...the south is, if we are going to continue to be pedantic is occupied by the greek cypriots and if I may say, had it not been for the greek cypriots attempt to eradicate the turk cypriots by genocidal means there would be no 'occupation' and the turkish army would not have invaded.



Dee

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 14:07

Wonderful post Dee, but intervened is spelt I N T E R V E N E D.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 19:26

Hi Frontalman



I am assuming you are too being pedantic lol...I should have said intervened and not invaded..I consider myself corrected.. and they intervened to restore peace...



Let the greeks stay in the south, I for one don't want them in the north...and a gentle reminder to some who may not remember what my granny used to say..'beware of greeks bearing gifts'

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 23:09

Disposition of United Nations Forces in November 2007, showing sector boundaries and the Buffer Zone (c) Unficyp



THE United Nations Force in Cyprus (UNFICYP) was established in March 1964, with the United Kingdom making the largest contribution in personnel and logistical support. Today the Force is the fourth oldest mission of its kind in the world. To fulfil its limited mandate, 1,230 military personnel from 12 different countries currently work alongside 35 police officers and 245 locally - and internationally - recruited civilians. Since the Turkish military intervention in 1974, UNFICYP's main task has been to maintain peace and stability in the Buffer Zone that separates the TRNC from the South, and to ensure there is no alteration of the status quo along the two cease-fire lines drawn on 16 August 1974. To understand why, it is necessary to trace the history of the original co-partnership Republic of Cyprus and its collapse.



THE BACKGROUND



BRITAIN gave Cyprus independence in August 1960, with the exception of 99 square miles that would remain Sovereign territory and would be used as military bases. Britain also retained control of sites on Mount Olympus, Cape Greco, RAF Nicosia and Famagusta harbour. Although the Republic of Cyprus was established under a set of complicated rules and treaties, neither the Greek Cypriots nor the Cypriot Turks were happy about the way it had been created. Both sides had co-existed to a point under British colonial rule, but had maintained their separate religions, languages and cultures. Their political ambitions, too, were poles apart. The new Cyprus Republic's Constitution guaranteed the Cypriot Turkish population co-founder status, a large measure of self-government in their areas, certain key ministries, and the right to veto any decisions involving defence, internal security and foreign affairs with which they might disagree. A separate treaty, the Treaty of Guarantee, was signed by the UK, Turkey and Greece. This stated that the Greek Cypriots could not seek Enosis and the Cypriot Turks would not demand partition. It allowed the signatories individually or collectively to intervene in Cyprus if the integrity of the Republic were threatened from any quarter or if hostile acts were committed by either community against the other.



The third treaty - the Treaty of Alliance - was signed by Cyprus, Greece and Turkey. To ensure the "peace", small contingents of Greek and Turkish armed forces were given permission to base themselves in various parts of the island.













Community Differences



WHILE most Cypriot Turks believed that the 1960 Constitution gave them only the barest legal rights and protection within the strongly nationalistic Greek society (which outnumbered them 5 to 1), many Greek Cypriots, for their part, continued to argue that they had only achieved partial independence as they were prohibited from Enosis - union with Greece - for which Grivas and his Eoka terrorists had fought the British between 1955 and 1959. To secure their aim, the Greek Cypriots knew they would have to change the Constitution and neutralise the Cypriot Turkish community one way or another. For the first three years of the Republic, there was little trouble between the two sides. Archbishop Makarios was the President and Dr Fazil Kucuk, a Cypriot Turk, was Vice-President. Even so, many former Eoka leaders were given senior appointments in the administration and vigorously opposed the implementation of those sections of the Constitution that granted Cypriot Turks self-government in their well-defined areas, scattered island-wide. In April 1963, Cypriot Turks took their case to the Supreme Constitutional Court, which then ruled in their favour. However, the Government's Greek Cypriot members, including Makarios, refused to accept the Court's judgement. As a direct consequence, t

panhandler


Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 23:10

'Can there ever be peace between us '

wasnt that a a scene from the movie Independance Day

Hick

Pan



PS



Seriously



I think not

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 23:53

sorry susanne you have a lot learn as regards to the greek cypriots, they have managed to re write history and got most of the world to believe them. Please take time to read what I have posted. All is true. Unless Greeks admit what they caused there will never be peace on this beautiful island.There was NO invasion, Turkey saved the Turks from being wiped out by the Greeks and Greek Cypriots.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 00:45

susanne



the truth hurts,and you are on whose land





musin

long live the kktc

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 08:46

You are right Susanne, Cyprus was invaded - by the Greeks. What do you call it when another country sends in troops and takes over the government? Turkey saved you, along with the TC’s, when it intervened. Many GC lives were lost between the 11 and 15 0f July 1974 – most are now blamed on the Turks.



Troodo

Happy to live in the safe area.

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 09:15

very good post horny

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 13:47

deecyprus,



Are you suggesting there is some kind of international conspiracy against Turkey, whah is the subject of several UN resolutions demanding its army gets out of Cyprus? Do you know better than the rest of the world? I think not.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 13:49

dirty harry,



I note your comments with interest, but am happy to point out that at least my children and grandchildren won't be speaking Arabic.

littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 13:51

isreal should have interveined there would be no g/cs left on this side that side or any where else

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 14:01

reply for susanne, we purchased turkish title property and have deeds for it thanx. ps sx shop doing well

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 14:42

reply for Dee cyprus.

I was just saying it as it is, the truth.

what i posted on thiis forums was facts,

It was written by troops that served on the island and who ever else that was here at the time and saw and heard with there own ears, its not made up rubbish. There is good and bad everywhere, I know that, as for a UN solution, Did you vote yes or no? turks voted yes for a peaceful solution but as the whole world saw the main majority of the greek people voted NO, THEY WANT Cyprus but not the turks. As for the turkish army pulling out, do you think for one minute if they did that there would be peace, I think not as Rascism from the greeks would blow up again towards the turks and brits [quote



UNFICYP: POST-1974.







The Coup







BETWEEN 1971 and 1974, Makarios and Rauf Denktas, the leader of the Cypriot Turkish community, tried to find a way to settle their dispute. Both sides made concessions and life became easier for the Cypriot Turks. However, Greek Cypriot extremists, encouraged by the Athens dictatorship, were opposed to any settlement. On July 15, Archbishop Makarios barely escaped with his life when he was toppled from power in a coup organised by mainland Greek forces. Thanks to the British he was rescued and taken abroad for his safety. Nicos Sampson was installed as the new President of the Republic of Cyprus. For the next five days of his term in office, Greek Cypriot fought Greek Cypriot. Thousands were killed and even today, no one knows the exact number. Sampson warned the Cypriot Turks that once he had settled scores with the Makarios supporters, he would turn his attention to them. He claimed he could exterminate the whole Cypriot Turkish community within 48 hours and then declare Enosis, union with Greece. Turkey called upon the UK Government to intervene, but London prevaricated. Turkey was left to act alone. ]all these threats still linger from gc .

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 14:47

may god be with the turkish troops that have kept peace on this island & kept us all safe .

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 15:50

I'm not suprised at your responce to my last post, we know what majority you are from. Inferior to hold a perfectly political coversation.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 16:30

Horny,



Could you kit susanne out with some new attire from your Sex Salon as he is putting on weight. Some blusher to hide the adams apple may well be an idea as well.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 21:15

SUSANNE



if you don,t know about cyprus politics ,then why do you always post about it

i know that you don,t know and so does others on this board ,so what are you doing discussing it .

"i dont do politics " make up your mind the word" hypocrite" comes too mind,

but i don,t blame you after all you live in the south,its second nature there.

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 21:24

No Susanne, you want 'peace' on Greek Cypriot terms, as all your postings confirm. Even when enlightened with the painful truth you choose to be nasty to poor old horny! You are in the right place, the dark side.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 23:31

susanne

wake up man, greeks don,t want the turks and turks don,t want the greeks ,so why do you keep pushing it ,is it not a ideal situation we are in now .



expats

we would rather live with them then with you thanks you know were you stand it,s the greeks we don,trust and with good reason.

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 23:48

Susanne, you are being insulting again, if you don't like Turkish culture how are you going to cope with your so-called 'reunification'. Does your idea of reunification mean extending Ayia Napa across the whole island?

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 03:18

hi guys

i must say frontalman you hit the nail on the head, how the hell is sue and all the other greek cypriots going to accept us TURKISH Cypriots without our turkish culture even some of us agree that some things in the mainland that we dont like, but it does not change the fact we are turkish and we lived in cyprus hence the name turkish cypriots!!!! so sue do you and the rest of the south think by reunification that all turkish cypriots will abandon our culture and turkish way of life for what, to live as greek cypriots you say you directed that towards expats but if you think like that towards expats then what do you think about Turkish Cypriots

people might say this is way of base but this could be percived as hints of political enosis lets us all be cypriots without the turkish culture, then you wonder why a percentage still dont trust the south and if a person like sue that has greek cypriots connections thinks, can we all imagine what the rest of the gc people and even expats who live in the south think!!!!

so tell me sue what would you percieve us turkish cypriots would have to do to become cypriots?

ukturk

SAFFI


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 342

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 05:14

BACK TO THE TOP



STAY TC AND PROUD

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 08:33

very very good point ukturk

Geoff1131


Joined: 12/07/2007
Posts: 276

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 09:03

Pikey, re message 80, learning any new language extends the mind, do you really want your children and grandchildren to be as small minded as your good-self?

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 10:16

Excuse me, I have never called anyone a retard, maybe Kevin my partner has in a previous post...my name is Dee and I would not be so unkind, however I do have to say that some of your comments are do leave much to be desired..

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 10:19

Cyprus was not invaded in the way you suggest, the turks came in in a peaceful operation to prevent further genoical slaughter by the greeks...would you have rather the turks be murdered and driven from the shores of cyprus altogether..

aweverard


Joined: 13/07/2008
Posts: 54

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 10:28

Sue msg 91.



The simple fact is that the GCs have a decision to make: do they want reunification and Turkey in the EU or do they want to keep Turkey out of the EU and no reunification?



Turkey is not going to give up it's position in Cyprus until it is in the EU or its membership is set in stone (no France moving the goal posts last thing) with all the internal migration that that entails, including an EU country very close to Anatolia and with a large Turkish speak minority...

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 17:18

Horny



Excellent piece of post from the people who lived through it and not the usual political c..p that is published.



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 17:59

horny msg 72,



You lifted a whole chunk of text written by David Carter. Considering this man os a self-confessed personal friend and apologist for Denktas, how can you even pretend what he writes isn't heavily compromised and biased?

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 19:00

Iraq demands the all USA troops leave Iraq



About time!!!

pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 19:28

Sorry, just being facetious

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 19:47

SUSANNE



whats new and who gives a hoot ,they can demand all they want ,last week they demanded russia pulled out of georgia ,their doing a lot of demanding

lately.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 20:36

my gosh

usa are demanding so come on turkey do like the british do when the yanks say jump they say how high!!!!!

if im not mistaken it was not so long ago the u.s demanded that turkey did not cross over its borders to iraq (which the u.s invaded i mean liberated) to deal with the kurdish terrorists otherwise their would have been a problem, well turkey crossed over dealt with the terrorists did the u.s do anything no!!!

at the end of the day who are the u.s to try and get involved with the cyprus issue, and belive you me the u.s cant presaure turkey into anything because the u.s depend on turkey for their land airspace and sea for their army aswell as using bases in north cyprus which is biggest well known secret!!!

so in public the u.s look they are contributing to the world but really they should look more closer to home to deal with their own problems like how they helped the african americans with hurracane katrina

ukturk

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 21:37

susanne



do read the posts ,uk turk said a "known secret" thats another way of saying

everyone knows.

boy you really do dislike us turks don,t you ,is there anything good about us

however miniscule.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 21:40

Geoff1131 msg 97,



You obviously can't spot a Zionist zealot when you see one.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 21:44

deecyprus4: "...the turks came in in a peaceful operation..."



How could any armed, offensive military operation be described as "peaceful"? How was school for you?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 21:53

guys



has anyone heard or seen written the words " baris icin savas" thats why turkish troops are in the north and thats why there they will stay come what may



musin

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 22:39

you lot heve dictated to tc where thay can & can not gofor years !!!

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 22:40

you lot heve dictated to tc where thay can & cant not go for years

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 22:44

horny,



You should be able to help, given your business. A friend of mine was going on a business trip and - old romantic that he is - he bought his wife a vibrator. When he got back home she said it was no good because it had knocked all her fillings out. Can you advise?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 23:11

susanne

how many turkish troops have you spoken too,let me guess

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 23:13

how long can a dog chase his tail for ??

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 23:38

guys



i think this thread has run its course,we have the answer "can greeks and turks

ever live peacefully together"......NO...NO....NO,so lets wrap it up guys and move on.



regards

musin

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 23:58

susanne

when you say we who do you mean ,"hit a nerve"you have lost me,please elaborate, you make these remarks from nowhere and with no basis,the answer too this thread is no ,or have you forgotten the question.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 00:10

Perhaps they can, and do, but in London, not Cyprus.



Lem

dirty harry


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 00:48

pte pike



Zionist zealot !!! " STUPID BOY "

dirty harry


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 01:31

pte pike msg 80



AS-SALAMU ALAYKUM





May the fleas of a thousand camels infest the crotch of the person who

screws up your day and may their arms be too short to scratch.

dirty harry


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 34

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 02:18

susanne



it's 17,500 troops not 40,000, soon after the liberating the turkish cypriots from the over zealous majority of greek cypriots,spurred on by the greek orthodox church, from attempted genocide,the turkish armed forces, which number 22 million,available for military service,ascertained the greek armed forces to be impotent,therefore ,only a few remain as a peace keeping force.



dh

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 10:44

That's not the figure the UN have in mind, DH. Maybe you know better.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 16:11

oh apollo , your wrong on that score , wyn is'nt in the same camp as the people you mention ,

regards , simbas

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 16:16

well apollo , thats another story !!

horny


Joined: 12/05/2008
Posts: 42

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 16:55

THE END

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 17:25

and thank god for that !!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 17:35

greeks arguing with greeks ,well i never .



stavros who luvs ya baby,



as for this thread ...........................AMEN............................



musin

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 17:51

There,s a lot of funny folk about on this board today, is there something in the water ????

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 18:06

apollo







YES .............YES ............AND .............ERR.....................YES.





kind regards

musin

deecyprus4


Joined: 27/07/2008
Posts: 3452

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 18:22

Indeed I am a guest and I still wouldnt want the greeks in the north...like it or not I am entitled to my opinion...

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 18:23

Whatever it's worth...

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 18:28

apollo



why don,t you want to argue with me ,naive i think i know who you are ,



hows your day been then son.................................................





musin.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 23:21

apollo: "musin m, you have belittled me twice now, this is not the end for us!"



And as the crowd gathers at the school gates, Apollo the Greek makes his Godfather-esque threat to Musin the Turk. I think the Turk will win.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
03/09/2008 00:56

Can the Greeks and Turks ever live peacefully together?



No never. The GCs don't want peace with the TCs, they just want all of Cyprus believing the whole lot belongs to them. Keep the two communities separate, recognition for the TRNC and that way they'll get along much better.

dy1259


Joined: 10/08/2007
Posts: 357

Message Posted:
03/09/2008 01:10

susanne/pike (coz that's who you are really, lol)



You know only too well that if Turkey hadn't intervened and stayed, there would be no TCs left in Cyprus. Turkey won't leave, thank goodness and TCs do not want Turkey to leave and be left to the GCs to finish off their genocide against them.



Long live the TRNC.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
03/09/2008 01:18

After reading the comments on this BB today, I'm not sure the bloody Brits can ever live together!



Good spectator sport, though.



Lem

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
03/09/2008 13:37

There is a big question on my mind today. Maybe I will share it with you.



Why do Greeks want to reunite with their Turkish neighbours so much and share power and all the external aid that they receive from other countries, when they have it all now anyway?



Anyone has any comments on this?