TRNC considering making ex-pats pay part of IPC award to GCs

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 16:06

Although only an idea discussed at a high level meeting in Ankara, Turkey is concerned about the high costs of the awards they might have to pay to GCs as compensation for their property in the north. One of the ideas considered is for ex-pats, for example, to pay part of that award. More information on http://www.northcyprusfreepress.com/2010/11/05/trnc-considering-idea-that-ex-pat-homebuyers-pay-part-of-ipc-award/

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 16:19

Malsancak, do you mean that only the expats will have to pay a price and not the Turkish Cypriots? Surely this is not the case.

ismet

tsmlion


Joined: 17/08/2009
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 17:09

I think it's fair that if you have bought something you know is knocked off on the cheap you should pay compensation to the legal owner.



And I'm speaking as someone it will affect detrimentally.

mrperfect


Joined: 18/01/2010
Posts: 400

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 17:24

So; in effect, tsmlion you are admitting to receiving stolen goods?! Surely not? In any case, most expats who have bought in educated good faith, from a developer, whom the Government have completely failed to regulate, for such a long period of time, should not owe a penny in compensation to anybody.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 18:05

and will the ex pats in the south be doing likewise ?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 18:08

I have got my 10 shillings ready and waiting.

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 18:29

Sounds like another SCAM.

Perhaps the Turkish government has seen how easy it has been for dodgy builders,estate agents,lawyers,banks and any other tc/gc institution to extract money from expats that they dont want to miss out.



Sorry if i have missed anyone

Alig8aBytes


Joined: 27/09/2010
Posts: 83

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 18:36

If you read the initial post...



the figure mentioned is £60,000 per donum



what planet are they on ???

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 18:41

URANUS perhaps !!

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 19:04

ooops, just realised £60,000 was the asking price and GCs were being offered about 1/10th of that by the IPC. 2.18m Euros for 250 donums in one case. As for, is it just ex-pats, of course not!

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 20:39

Ok so let me get this right, a developer sells a place in the TRNC with the full endorsement of the TRNC government who issues and 'guarantees' the title deeds, the buyer pays the Vat and all taxes etc, and eventually recieves the deeds. I don't recall there being anything about the 'buyer' then paying compensation to GC's. To my mind this should be paid by; A) the person who was given the land and who subsequently sold it on, or, B) by the TRNC/Turkish Government.



By the way, what happens to the land in the south in the case of Esdeger property, does that not now belong to the buyer of the GC land in the north??!!! So surely the subsequent buyer is due any compensation on that if thats the case.



Come on TRNC/Turkey..... get bloody real please!!!!! You took the land, gave it to a TC who sold it on, YOU/THEY SHOULD PAY. We've already paid your 'Taxes' and got your 'deeds'.

Lazy days


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 847

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 21:50

Our friends were advised by their Advocate some 8 years ago to set aside an amount because in her opinion there would be a case for compensation to the G/C landowners in the event of a settlement, we asked our Advocate (different one) if this was wise when we subsequently bought just over 3 years ago he said he didnt think it would be needed but there would be no harm if we did, it has been discussed on the http://www.glencoecyprus.com forum at some length over the past few months

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 21:56

I'm not paying anything - they'll never enforce it.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 22:27

I wonder if the Orams thought that once upon a time.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 22:31

I would gladly hand over a few quid, after all you will more than get your money back after.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/11/2010 22:40

Most of the Cypriot Estate agents we visited when looking to buy suggested that we buy an apartment because any compensation that needed to be paid would be shared by all residents. However the Brit ones claimed all compensation would be covered by the TRNC.



We have yet to see who will be correct but I know who I'd put my money on!

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:02

I agree with Millzer, why should we have to pay any compensation? It is up to the developers and TRNC government to sort it out. If a Greek Cypriot makes a claim on our little plot, then we will ask for the land it was exchanged for in the south. We can then sell that, pay the compensation and still be quids in, can't we???





The butlers wife

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:21

the butler/Msg 17:



Who says the land was ever exchanged?



Oh, I know; either your advocate, or estate agent.

Marisa


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 545

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:30

It was a myth created by the TRNC government about "exchanging" lands.The GC never exchanged anything with anybody.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:35

Agreed Marisa GS cant even manage to exchange views !!

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:39

Butler,



How do you know your land was exchanged for land in the South? Ask yourself how much land was owned by GC's and how much was owned by TC's pre 74. The maths do not add up. Not all GC land can have been exchanged.



How much faith do you have in the developers Turkey and the TRNC sorting this out?

It is costing Turkey far more than they can afford to compensate GC's and some of the compensation only relates to loss of use of property, as not everyone wants to give up their land. Yet they have to adhere to the rules of the IPC otherwise its back to the ECHR's and more Oram type cases.



Given that Governments the world over were warning their citizens not to buy this disputed GC land and that compensation might be sought if you chose to do so, I think there will be very little resistance to using this method as part of any settlement and to raise the money to keep the IPC going.



What alternative is there?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:43

Glafcos Clerides has confirmed that he did reach a gentleman's agreement with Rauf Denktas over the exchange of land in the wake of the 1974 intervention but his side would not allow him to keep his word.



"When Makarios returned six months later, he left office amid criticism that he had overstepped his authority."

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:45

Tenakoutou, the TC who sold us our field gave the TRNC government title deeds to land in Paphos so he could use the field we bought from him. He said this 8 years after we bought the field and had no reason to lie.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 18:45

There was and never has been any "exchange" with anybody for anything. What the TRNC govt did was to say those with Title deeds for land and property in the south can "exchange" them for land in the north with the TRNC govt, who will hold those deeds in event of a settlement and issue land here.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 21:10

Message 18. As far as I was concerned I satisfied myself with our Solicitor that the land our site is on IS Esdeger, and therefore, there should be land in the south that its value can be offset against in the event of any settlement. I say 'should', because other than the fact that I know the land is exchange land, I don't know what ot where that land in the south is.



Message 19. I think most people already know that there was NO 'official' exchange agreed with the GC's, but nevertheless, if your land is exchange, then there should be land in the ROC that IS technically 'yours' even if 'your' land, is technically 'theirs', if you know what I mean.



Message 21. Agreed that not all land can be 'exchange' as a lot of developments (Turtle/Turquoise Bay for example) are on 'TMD' land, which is 'giftted' land.



I still feel that we bought and paid our taxes, vat, stamp duty and were given 'deeds' by the TRNC Gov' who gave their 'guarantee'... that should be sufficient.



Cont'd

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 21:16

The guarantee was based on the "fact" that the TRNC Govt has title deeds it holds in the South for land that you may have your house built on from the TC builder, the land is "technically theirs not yours. Now what they actually have and how that is registered is another issue, as is what they will decide to do with it.

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 21:19

Cont'd



So that should be it, and Turkey/TRNC should stick to their word, it should not be my problem how they are to afford to pay the compensation. IMO they should look to the TC owner who was 'given' the land and no doubt made a handsome profit out of its sale to the developer and maybe the developer (who also would have profited) ought to pay a portion too.



IF, they want the current occupier of exchange land to pay the compo then they need to start tracking down and valuing all the land in the south that was given up in exchange and using that to offset the value in the north. Who knows, we might be quids in!!!!!!!!! ;-)

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 21:20

Pugwash yes I am fully aware of that thanks. ;-)

millzer


Joined: 12/04/2007
Posts: 978

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 21:31

Pugwash, further to your message 26, yes if the land in the south is now 'technically' the TRNC Gov's, then it should be the TRNC Gov that should pay the compensation, as they now have the 'asset' in the south that the land in the north was given in place of.



It cannot possibly be right that the TRNC Gov can give a TC some GC land, allow him to sell it on for a profit, and at the same time take ownership of the TC land left behind in the south, and then expect future purchasers of the GC land in the north to cough up the compo.



That to me sounds like it would open up a number of cases of purchasers in the north taking the TRNC/Turkey to the european courts.... talk about having you cake and eating it!

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
06/11/2010 21:56

Millzer,



Re Msg 29. Spot on.



I know exactly which plot in the South my land was "exchanged" for, I know the TC who agreed the exchange with the TRNC Government, and I know that a house has subsequently been built on this plot in the South. I appreciate that the GC who previously owned my land in the North did not agree to any sort of exchange. But what I don't understand is, if I am being asked to contribute to the compensation for this GC, who then owns the plot of land in the South? If it's the TRNC Government, then why are they asking me to contribute to compensation as they already have a (more valuable) asset in the South which they can sell (presumably to the person who has built the house on it!!). Alternatively, if I have paid towards the compensation does this now mean that the plot of land in the South is mine? Should I be talking to them about selling the land to them?!

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
07/11/2010 18:20

Looks to me as if Turkey is waking up to the fact that N.Cyprus is just simply not worth hanging on to. This is just the start of things to come. Troops will be withdrawn. The TRNC will be given back to the GCs. As the TRNC realise that they dont have enough money to fund the claims they will freeze all bank accounts and reintroduce exchange controls. The EU will then step into the resulting chaos and offer financial help which the north will have to accept upon the condition the TRNC government steps down and cedes the country to the GCs. Cyprus will then be unified as one country making another full member of the EU. GCs will then drop their objections to Turkey joining the EU. Turkey will then become a full EU member , just as America wants it to be. Game over.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
07/11/2010 18:40

how will they then justify all the money spent protecting tcs msg31? its not as easy as that , who says turkey want to join eu ? america use their air bases already , i dont think turkey will be bullied by anyone ? they can trade with anyone , theyre economy is probablly stronger than any eu member , they hold all the aces , i hope they keep them .

dusty48


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 258

Message Posted:
07/11/2010 19:43

As i was told the only things that are to be believed in cyprus today are the name and the cost,

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
07/11/2010 19:50

Have you ever known politicians be able to justify anything ? Maybe the people arnt so keen at the moment but the politicians are keen to become members of the polit paradise. Yes the americans use a couple of air bases but they wish to install a brand new anti missile shield before the eventual attack on Iran. The economy is good but the trade deficit is getting ever larger and compared to germany they are still minnows. Like you I hope they have the sense not to join the EU.

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
07/11/2010 22:37

I think from what has been said it was one thing that came up in a brainstorming session. So far there has been no real suggestion it will be adopted. Under the Annan plan we would have had to pay comps on Exchange and TMD land anyway.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/11/2010 23:01

Lets see what the outcome is of the talks in New York on Nov 18.Google ft.com cyprus,

Paul.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 03:58

been saying for ages this might happen, I allowed for 20% of purchase price for compensation.

It was obvious that politically and also because of the patronage system ,the TC's could not be asked to pay for TRNC title compensation.Also as I have said before,it would be very unpopular in Turkey for Turkish taxpayers on low incomes as a whole ,to subsidise the cheap villas brought by reasonably well off Brits.



What would they say in Uk if the troubles in NI had not been resolved peacefully and Catholics fled to the South and Americans had come in and bought property cheaply, encouraged by a regime in NI .Then the UK taxpayer was told to pick up the tab for the difference between what the property was worth and what it had been bought for, ,on behalf of those Americans who exploited a situation.



Anyway I dont think any of us will affected for at least 20 years ,

lancashirelad


Joined: 18/09/2008
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 07:59

I can't see anything wrong with compensation payments from those who received land in exchange for that left behind in the South, if the sale of the land in the South at realistic prices is insufficient to meet the amount needed.

I don't see that it matters whether they are still living on/using the land or whether they have sold it - they are the ones who received it.

What has it got to do with any subsequent purchaser?

They didn't receive the land for free - they paid for it.

I wonder if this point occurred to any of those who came up with this daft scheme?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 08:57

I agree with lancashirelad, the TCs received the land and if they sold it on then they should give some of that money back. However, if the sum is a few thousands and in exchange the occupier becomes an internationally recognised titleholder then I wouldn't complain. Furthermore, it should be the person named on the TRNC deeds who pays the compensation and they should not be allowed to pass the cost on if they have signed a contract to sell the property. Oooooh, l just looked out of the window and I'm sure I've just seen a Vietnamese Pot-bellied pig fly over the Kyrenia Mountain Range

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 09:11

So people who bought land from TC,s, paid tax on that land, got the kocan from TRNC government, again paid tax on that, have paid property tax for years to the local Belediye are now expected to pay compensation to a GC who may never have set foot on the land, I think I saw the same pig just flying past.

vincehugo


Joined: 28/01/2009
Posts: 208

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 11:37

Islandgirl,



"Under the Annan plan we would have had to pay comps on Exchange and TMD land anyway".



On TMD land, yes, but not on Exchange land. The Annan plan recognised the rights of "disposessed owners" and their inheritors by title as "current users". So where land had been given up in the South (as is the case with Es Deger) no further compensation was required.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 11:54

'What has it got to do with any subsequent purchaser?'



Come on, it has everything to do with the subsequent purchaser, If that subsequent purchaser hadnt fallen for the allure of cheap property in the first place the property issue would have been solved between the original owners of the lands on both sides of the border. We have become 3rd and 4th parties to the issue and that has made things more difficult.



for better or worse, as far as the GC's and the rest of the world is concerned ,there shouldnt have been a subsequent purchaser of that land (trnc title). Those of us, including myself ,bought knowing fullwell the risks and the potential costs, but presumed some sort of agreement would come into play or that the TRNC would stay the same in our lifetimes. Now that the property commision is in place we can hardly cry foul.