Smoking ban lifted in Holland

richez


Joined: 30/06/2009
Posts: 28

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 21:03

Have hope you never know somebody may see sense!

For laws in other parts of EU see:

http://takingliberties.squarespace.com/taking-liberties/2010/11/5/how-the-uk-compares-with-europe.html

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:00

The article doesn't specifically say what they have done in Holland. Have they totally lifted the smoking ban, ie you can smoke in public places again like bars and restaurants?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:09

only spliffs allowed at the moment .

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:12

rowlo, thought that was the old law? As long as it had no tobacco in. I got the impression from msg1 that there is a new law.

steveafc


Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 405

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:13

the ban has been lifted only on ' small ' bars/pubs

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:16

that will do me for next time I visit my friends there

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:43

RE msg 2, LaptaMike: (...) The article doesn't specifically say what they have done in Holland. Have they totally lifted the smoking ban, ie you can smoke in public places again like bars and restaurants? (...)

=> Only in small, so-called "cafees" (bars) and ONLY IF THE OWNER WORKS BEHIND THE BAR - WITHOUT STAFF IN THE SAME AREA. (A Dutch court decision).

=> The bad news: the bl**dy Dutch government is preparing a new law to prevent all this good news... :-(

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:48

I take it you won't be going back then Hans? )

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:51

RE msg 8, No1Doyen: Smoking h*ll, no!

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
08/11/2010 22:59

Thanks Hans for clearing that up. Typical isn't it? Us smokers getting victimised yet again by petty minded jobsworths. I wouldn't mind if there were maybe seperate rooms for smokers so that non-smokers wouldn't have to inhale second hand smoke but like in the UK they go the whole hog and just ban it completely.....



I know of at least one pub in the UK, when it gets to about 11.30 they throw everyone out apart from the locals, lock the doors and carrying on serving until well into the night and allow you to smoke. If it's particularly bad weather they just allow smoking anyway in the tap room. They get away with murder in that pub because it is a respected local pub dating from the 1700's, never any trouble unlike some of the other pubs in the village so the police just ignore what goes on. I know a few coppers who drink in there after time.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 03:15

If you wanna smoke, fine.. just do it away from me, in your own homes - not in a public one - these 'draconian' laws are fine with the VAST majority of folk...

BrightonJim


Joined: 27/07/2010
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 06:13

I totally agree with mmmmmm.

Why should others suffer from smoke especially in restaurants and bars.

I know plenty of smokers ALL of whom now realise it is anti social to smoke in publc places and that's in the UK where in winter they have to go into the cold to light up.

The small minority who want the ban lifted should stop being so selfish.

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 07:05

there are still bars in the east of girne that allow smoking

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 07:31

"Smoking ban lifted in Holland"



Just one of the myriad reasons not to visit Holland...

steveafc


Joined: 12/12/2008
Posts: 405

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 07:35

these 'draconian' laws are fine with the VAST majority of folk... ?





how do you know?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 07:40

Steve, I think you'll find there is plenty of research to support this statement and the health service figures on reductions in smoking related ailments is proof positive of the benefits. Unfortunately with drug addictions some people need to be told... and the state has the duty to do so.

NCMan



Joined: 19/09/2009
Posts: 670

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 08:20

Ref msg 13



I hope i never go into them.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 08:54

RE msg 16, Groucho: (...) and the state has the duty to do so. (...)

=> Worlwide: allow selling the stuff, take the tax and forbid or discourage the use... Can it be more hypocritical..?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 08:55

Typo, sorry: worlwide = worldwide

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 08:56

A bit like making the roads wider, more straight, then penalising you for speeding.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 08:59

If I were a non-smoker and sitting on my high moral hobby horse (Groucho) I'd boycott all shops where they sell cigarettes. But that wouldn't be as convenient as a bulletin board, where one can tell others how to behave, eh..?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11280

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 09:00

RE msg 20, flowerfairy:

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 11:25

re msg 15 steveafc



Are you seriously doubting the popularity of the introduction smoking laws?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3561483.stm



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2005/sep/18/health.smoking



to be 'fair' :



2 polls stating the opposite:



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4169797.stm



http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article561198.ece



The polls WERE conducted for Forest ( pro smoker's rights) and the Tobacco Manufacturers’ Association ... hmmmmm





If the laws were so 'unpopular', we'd have seen a proposal by a mainstream political party to have them removed at the last General Election...



Please find such a move in ANY party manifesto...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 11:30

DutchCrusader re 21



>>If I were a non-smoker and sitting on my high moral hobby horse (Groucho) I'd boycott all shops where they sell cigarettes. But that wouldn't be as convenient as a bulletin board, where one can tell others how to behave, eh..?<<



If folk want to smoke in their own homes that's up to them..what smokers always forget, is that we are asking them not to pollute the air for non-smokers nearby.



Your post is a little 'provocative' in that :



Why single out Groucho?.. you could have included me! .. ;)

sissy


Joined: 29/03/2008
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 12:15

I have nothing against anyone smoking as long it is not next to me. I think all restaurants and pubs should have their own designated area. Being an asthmatic is not very pleasant and if I inhale smoke it can trigger an attack.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 12:16

Fact: Smoking related deaths are One thousand times more than heroin related ones in UK! (probably in Europe too)

Fact: Smoking relatede diseases are a heavy burden on any natıonal health service resources in any country that has NHS. Too much money & time spent for treatment and/or cure.

Fact: Heavy taxes meant good revenue for the government but never reduced the number of smokers.

Fact: Restrictions in advertising of tobacco products, and the use in public places, has greatly increased the number of non-smokers over the last decade!

Fact: The smoke and the smell of tobacco is socially very off-puting for the non-user. Nothing more irritating than someone's clothes and even breath smelling of cigarettes!

Fact: Passive smoking can be just as dangerous as smoking itself. It has been established in UK that many children or workers can end up with real risk of cancer, because they have to breathe in the same filthy smoke filled air in closed up spaces



I gave up 9 years ago,

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 12:19

More Facts!

Smoking adds to Global warming!

Smoking causes impotence!

Smoking DOES kill!

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 12:51

sissy, I totally agree with you. I have never smoked in restaurants anyway but in pubs/bars there should at least be smoking rooms. (Pretty much like in the old days I suppose.) With smaller establishments where a seperate room isn't available it should be up to the owners discretion whether it is smoking or non smoking (with a sign at the door)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 14:14

re msg 28



>>there should at least be smoking rooms<<



WHY?!



>>With smaller establishments where a seperate room isn't available it should be up to the owners discretion whether it is smoking or non smoking (with a sign at the door)<<



WHY? .. So all the workers have to risk their health to serve you ? !

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 14:47

mmmmm. A lot of bar workers smoke themselves. Stop being so selfish and at least TRY to meet us smokers somewhere in the middle..!!!!!!!!!!!! No need to be an anti smoking nazi.



People like you that even give dirty looks when smokers are smoking in designated areas disgust me. If you don't like someone smoking near you in a smoking area then don't go in the smoking area!!! Simples as that meercat off TV says.



Even Manchester Airport have opened a few smoking designated areas in departures now (After closing them a couple of years ago)

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
09/11/2010 23:57

" A lot of bar workers smoke themselves"



So they smoke and when they are not smoking they are breathing smoke too... and remember the smoke breathed in from other people's fags is not through a filter....



How many hours a day is healthy?



None...



A lot of bar workers smoke themselves.... I bet they look smoked!

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 00:04

What ever happened to choice? If a bar person chooses to work in a smoke filled room it is THEIR choice. If they say they don't to go in that room then fair enough. Others will do the job.



Groucho, why are you or any government allowed to judge people because it's something you don't like?

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 00:20

Mess 27

''More Facts!

Smoking adds to Global warming!

Smoking causes impotence!

Smoking DOES kill''



What hypacrytical nonsence, all this talk of smoking in bars, smokers cause the NHS excessive costs,yes, they probably do, but what about drinkers??????



Don't tell me you all go to the pubs and drink soft drinks. Drinking causes impotence, drinking can kill you and kills, other people too.



I think the whole world has gone crazy. My old Nanna and Grandad lived to a ripe old age, Grandad had his Ciggi's, bless him. He was introduced to them whilst fighting for our country during the war, they were given away free!!!!!!!

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 00:46

The subject of smoking in bars is heightened now because for a couple of years we have had a smoke free environment in public places. Before the ban we were used to inhaling other peoples smoke, and our clothes stinking.

I have played in bands for many, many years from the local to bigger halls, and always all of my equipment and clothes stunk of smoke.

I really don't care if people wish to smoke...just don't do it over me.

Oh and yes I am an ex smoker, free of the habit for over twenty years...but it didn't stop me having a heart attack nine years ago.

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 01:05

Blackbird, you have just shown yourself to be one of the worst. I have ex smoker friends and non smoking friends. The ex-smokers always have to grumble more about smoking (probably because they are dying for a drag.

Blackbird



Joined: 11/08/2009
Posts: 1432

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 01:21

Quite the opposite LaptaMike - I never have had the urge or desire to smoke again.

And I did say that I don't really care if people want to smoke......it's up to you.... I just rather that you didn't do it over me

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 01:33

fair enough mate, don't grumble at me if I am sat outside smoking next to you though

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 04:02

re msg 30 >>A lot of bar workers smoke themselves. Stop being so selfish and at least TRY to meet us smokers somewhere in the middle..!!!!!!!!!!!! No need to be an anti smoking nazi. <<



Let's be clear.. I have many friends who smoke and if I'm at their place - I'd never consider asking them to stop...



Jobs are hard to come by and why should any worker have to risk their health to indulge you ?! ;)



>>People like you that even give dirty looks when smokers are smoking in designated areas disgust me. <<



You clearly don't know me...!



>>If you don't like someone smoking near you in a smoking area then don't go in the smoking area!!! Simples as that meercat off TV says. <<



Er, WHY would I go into a designated smoking area ?!



>>Even Manchester Airport have opened a few smoking designated areas in departures now (After closing them a couple of years ago)<<



If they comply with the law and it doesn't effect non-smokers then GREAT!

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 07:13

Manchester Airport will be providing shooting-up rooms next!



It is quite clear that any amount of smoking is harmful to health, given what we know now, if Sir Walter was steaming this way with the world's first ship load of tobacco, what do you think the Coast Guard would be doing? Stopping the ship, so customs could raise taxes? Or confiscating the lot?



There is no sustainable argument in favour of smoking and yet some of you smokers still believe the rest of mankind ought to put up with your addiction.



LaptaMike, where am I judging smokers? I'm only asking smokers to keep their habit out of my life and that of my children... if you all want to give yourselves emphysema that's fine, just don't ask me to join you and pay for the treatment....



Flower fairy,



When somebody smokes they share their vice with you - when somebody drinks (unless they are very clumsy) they tend to keep their drink and smell to themselves... you might as well compare eating and smoking.

shrimp


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 939

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 09:47

Did you know that it is easier to give up heroin than it is to give up smoking.....fact.

I used to be a happy smoker for many years, but after reading Allan Carr's The Easy Way I am an even happier non smoker. I would never have believed that reading a book could prevent me from being a smoker, no will power needed, no patches, lozengers etc....I would NEVER stop any one smoking in my house though even now as I would rather have their friendship than them not come to see me because they didnt feel happy not smoking......Happy non smoker for one yearx

Chelpet


Joined: 10/03/2010
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 11:32

Unfortunatly I was was born into an age when smoking was actively encouraged, and unfortuntely still smoke, I can sympathise with non smokers, and I do make every effort to not smoke near non smokers, I.E. it does not bother me to walk outside and have a smoke (except on aircraft). I do appreciate there is a bad smell associated with smoking, as I can can even smell, it fact both my wife and I have banned smoking inside our home to stop it smelling as we have a lot of non-smoking friends.

The point I am trying to make is even for the few of us that smoke there ought to be facilites where we can indulge in our filthy habit, seperate rooms, for instance in Rome Airport there is a smoking room airside with fans and filters, believe me it is bloody hard to get inside, too crowded, but outside you cannot smell any smoke.

I just wish that some clever scientist would come up with a pill that I could take thats stops me smoking without all the relevant withdrawal symptoms.

sermon over.

shrimp


Joined: 01/09/2010
Posts: 939

Message Posted:
10/11/2010 19:52

chelpet, I started smoking in the sixties and never ever thought I would be able to give up.....nor did any one else. I was a lifer!! My daughter bought me the book and I didnt want to read it, let alone think it would work, but I promised her I would to shut her up....I have not had one withdrawal symptom.....by the time you finish the book you are almost a non smoker and looking forward to not smoking......and there is no mention of anythig nasty damaged lungs etc!!! Just try it and see......from your comments, This may be the clever idea you have been waiting for......

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 08:37

Passive smoking 'kills 600,000' worldwide



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11844169



Of course you can choose not to believe the facts and figures...