Exchange Land

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:04

To save the usual candidates, with their negative comments about 'late in the day'. we will take that as read.



My question is....If you have had a villa built on exchange land, my understanding was that this land had been exchanged .Was an actual exchange agreed, just offered or imposed? How can I find out? All this talk of compensation for the GCs. What will happen to the land in the South, that was pledged?, if it was refused in exchange, who owns it?



Any settlement surely has to be on a full compensation basis, but will that only be for people

who have been dispossessed,and received no compensation, at that point in time .



A thorny question? Can anyone elucidate?



wyn



E&OE.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:15

Our understanding on our contract , was exactly the same as you Wyn .

As our solicitor should have checked it out ???!!!! we have left it that we did all in our power at the time to ensure we did the right thing . We see no point in looking for todays answers , as we were led at that time . So in a nutshell

The developer /solicitor should be responsible for there actions .

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:24

Hi Wyn

As I understood the situation people were issued land at either end of the Island on a points system. From memory of what I was told people were given land of similar size to the land they left behind.

Karen

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:31

Hi Pipie,



I paid my Advocate, Mr Munir Akil, some £1000 in advance.



Perhaps I should have added to the original question...."What responsibility do our professional advisers,accept in this situation?"



I was told that the legal system was based on that in the UK and Mr Akil had been a practising Barrister in the UK.



Do they have to carry Professional Indemnity?



wyn

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:32

But the exchange agreement was only within the boundary of the TRNC. A TCypriot came to the North in 74 said I have my deeds from the south had 3 donums and a 2 bedroomed Villa.



OK said the TRNC we have a house in ....... about the same as you lost, you give us your deeds to the one you lost and go to that house in ......



That constitutes an exchanged property.



At the time this happened there was little contact between North and South they were not in a mood to talk. The south had nothing to do with it, do you hear of southern Excanged land?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:35

Was the Larnaca airport built on Exchange land ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:36

Hi Karen,



Thanks for your contribution. Do you know if the exchange was enforced, or by mutual agreement?



wyn

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:37

Wynyardman



I was also told my solicitor was a barrister in the UK. Was I really expected to believe that Barrister on £200+ an hour would do his sums and return to the TRNC to make a living being a conveyancer. Think not,

chick


Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:38

Orangekazzie.



That was what I was told by a T/Cypriot who had property in Limasol.

When the border was opened the GC came and gave them a lot of hassle,but when they went back to Limasol their property had been razed to the ground.

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:43

Wynyardman



I was also told my solicitor was a barrister in the UK.



Was I really expected to believe that Barrister on £200+ an hour would do his sums and return to the TRNC to make a living being a conveyancer.

Think not.

I was told by my lovely fresh from charm school with 1st Class Diploma Estate Agent, that our solicitor was also a practising Barrister once in the UK. I was so pleased that he made a point of ringing me to apologise for the mistake.

This is when I decided I could trust this guy, he is good. Well so far.

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:44

Sorry Wyn I don't. To find the real truth you need to find a Greek Cypriot who returned to the South and v - v Turkish Cypriot to North. Preferably someone who is not still bitter.

I do know that a well respected member of our Village (Esentepe), who unfortunately died earlier this year, used to visit his old property/village in the South on a regular basis to see his old neighbours. He still called it his land but on the face of it appeared to accept the fact that the land would never be his again and settled for what he has/had been given in exchange.

Karen

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:46

To my knowledge not one of the 180,000 Greek Cypriots forced from the north after 1974 agreed to exchange their property. Before TRNC estate agents invented the term "exchange", property with this title was known as "TRNC" because it was held by the Turkish authorities.



Anyone buying property in a country thousands of miles away should do their homework, otherwise known as "due diligence". That way they would know there is no legal title for any of these properties and they remain under the ownership of the Greek Cypriots (Arestis and Orams court decisions).



In the event of a settlement to the Cyprus problem these properties may be the subject of return to their legal owners or compensation orders. Those who legally purchased pre-74 titles are unaffected.

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:49

Larnaca Airport was built on Turkish Cypriot land, I have read that South Cyprus gets over a problem by compulsory purchase of land.



And we can never get around that one so why haven't the North done the same, suppose the argument is it is not recognised as anything ( as yet), But we have been given TRNC guarnated documents ?



We sould have spell check on this site stop a lot of nit picking.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:49

The documents I received from my advocate has a copy of the Title (Kocan) which states that the builder is the legal owner of the land he is building our apartment on.

If the documents are not correct then surely its the govenments responsibility if all goes belly up !!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:51

With reference to the Orams case that is due to be heard in September , will we not be guided on the outcome of that case ?!!!!

MaggieAndBernie



Joined: 26/07/2008
Posts: 2012

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:59

Maybe the owners of exchange properties should get a shotgun & a rocking chair. If re unification ever happens, they can sit on their porch/veranda ready to shout "get offa my land!" to any approaching GCs. Oh and a crate of efes chilled in readyness for a long stand off!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 13:59

If the Goverment can change the law at will ie cancel all freehold to leasehold. Doing Due dilligence would be a waste of time. It can only be within the law of the land at that time.



If the Government do choose (as rumoured) to cancel freehold and substitute a form of leasehold, it is likely all property will be affected includind Pre74



wyn

MarkVpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 14:01

Wyn



The "exchange" was impossed by the forced segregation of communities in 1974.

r.e full compensation

From what I remember of the Annan Plan, compensation would be based on the value of the property in 1974 + interest. i.e if your house was built on a bit of scrub land (circa £50 a donum in 1974), compensation due would be minimal, if you own a restored house in a town, the figure would be much greater.

Values could not be computed on todays worth - it would not be just, to give the TC who owned farmland in Larnaca, 50% of an international airport, as infrastructure and building costs must be taken into account.



Another theory is that as deeds have been issued by the TRNC, the TRNC government is responsible for any compensation.

e.g TMD land was given as payment for army service etc, i.e issued in the same manner as a government bond, therefore the government is responsible for paying back the value of the bond.



As the TRNC is broke, in the event of a re-unification, the new nation would assume this "debt", i.e by and large the GCs would be paying their own money back to themselves as compensation !



The AP tooks years to formulate, especially the property restitution aspect.

Any new plan would have to take it as its basis, though I doubt the RoC would advertise this fact.



Mark

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 14:04

Do you not think these governments have an hidden agenda. I mean Cyprus Turkey UK USA Greece.



I think we can go back a few years and the decisions were made then. Just the people needed to be coaxed gently. Funny how the Ormans and North Cyprus issue being dealt with at the same time, Funny how the UK and Booth could have made a different interpretation back then, isn't it, a good barrister can sway you to their corner whether right or wrong?



So I believe the decision has been made long ago, everything has already been finalised, but they are playing games with the little people now, letting us think we have a say ......load of rubbish.

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 14:05

I am going back to my happy threads. Much nicer there.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 14:09

Maggie and Bernie,



You may well have a point!



Pleased to see you have spelt Efes with only on "F" Come to think of it everytime I think of D&C....I think of a little "f". (obviously taught me well!)



Oh well, back to the library!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 14:32

MarkVPiazza,



Thgank you! A very useful and informative posting.



wyn

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 14:38

Exchange land was given to TC refugees, after 1974, who had left land/property behind in the South when they were repatriated to the North. The arrangement had no acceptance from the GC administration. Land was given to compensate for loss in the South, the idea being that in the event of a settlement the land left behind (in the South) could be 'exchanged', as is happening in some cases through the Immovable Properties Commission.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 15:11

See this post I put up from the cyprus mail





http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/4965.asp



Yes Pike and others there have been some recent case of agreed exchange by GC and TC owners.



There have also been other cases of TC's who did not exchange their land in the south for GC property in the North but have still been denied access to it by the ROC, such as the case Arif Mustafa. He had to appeal to the UCHR and finally won a case in the ROC Supreme court 2006. The ROC eventually stopped fighting this decision and relented giving his house back relocating the GC occupants.



Despite this decison the ROC is still trying anything to stop TC's reclaiming this land and fighting any attempt at individual settlements.



There is substantial hypocracy in this approach by the ROC given its position with respect to the GC properties in the North.



Indeed if there was a wholesale move to immediately force return of both TC's and GC's to their former homes I suspect it would encounter resistance from many GC's comfortably settled in the South in conditions better than their former homes.



Aussie

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 22:28

Susanne msg17

Yes I did do my reasearch and yes I did make a judgement on what I was advised that is down to me.

Lets say then that if there is a settlement and all lands are returned to the original owners I suppose all the property built on this land would have to be demolished.

If this was the case then the TRNC government would be held accountable for huge amounts of compensation claims ?

If also this was to happen why would this administration be involved in a settlement process, i find this difficult to understand.



Perhaps susanne you may want to contribute something more constructive and stop bitching about everybody with an interest in TRNC.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 22:47

guys



whats the wording the greeks use for turkish land in the south"they are looking after it for us ".

just wording guys ,greeks pick and choose as they like, they thing we are all effing stupid

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 22:58

Turtle,



In the event of a settlement the "TRNC" would cease to exist. Can you see Turkey, the Greek Cypriots or the EU picking up the tab? I think we all know who will have to strump up or get out.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 23:04

I think one of the problems is the ROC government uses its international recognition to be able to compulsarily acquire any TC property it likes eg Larnaca Airport etc while the TRNC government is not internationally recognised as being able to do so when it did the same thing.



What I don't understand however is how the ROC as an EU member has got away with doing this to date without providing fair compensation.



Given the line it has run on rights of return etc you would think they could at least pay proper compensation for properties on which it has built airports schools etc where its impossible to maintain the fiction that there will be a return of the original owner.



Basically the ROC wants to have its cake and eat it i.e. we want GC properties back but won't compensate TC land owners in such cases.



Even if the overall Cyprus issue can't be resolved amicably it would be far better to agree to do some form of compulsory compensation arrangement for both sides soon using the exchange properties and external EU/ UN money as a top up . After all 34 years is a long time to wait.



Aussie

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 23:09

PP

How do you know it will cease to exist , do you know something people for the last 35years have tried to sort out.

Perhaps you are deluded enough to believe things will return to as they were in 74 ??

I doubt that very much.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 23:13

Turtle,



No, but as you very well know the TRNC will have to go in a reunified Cyprus. And that means no more protection for people taking what isn't theirs.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 23:17

Turtle my good friend.



It seems that any settlement (if any) will be based on the Annan Plan (However wrapped up)



Collective anxiety is understandable, when so many people have paid over huge sums of money in good faith, and decision time looms!



Pike will cause distress, wherever he can! Its what he" gets off on"



Aussies postings always seem to me to have a balance.



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 23:46

Whatever happens, we as "land owners" will have no say in the matter.



The Annan Plan is dead and gone and even if resurected it would be voted against be all of Cyprus.



For their own reasons Susanne and Pt Pike are correct in their assumptions regarding so called exchange land. Nobody has ever sat down and said this is mine I will swap with you!!!!!



Anyone who bought here in the last 4 years and did not know what the potential issues were was wearing rose tinted glasses. There is so much on the internet, even when we bought nearly 4 years ago, that if you missed it......!!!!!!!



We knew we were taking a gamble with the political situation but it was one we were both financially and politically prepared to take. So many here now live in cloud cuckoo land thinking because they are "British" they are unable to be touched.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 23:51

CIH,



Quite!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
29/08/2008 23:55

turtle



susanne knows nothing about cyprus,up until a few days ago she asked what pile was and then said we spelt it wrong .what she knows is what she hears

from her father in law ,one sided "greek" .just disregard what she says.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 00:05

david

why do you worry ,do you really believe that greeks will live in the north with us turks and vice versa .

its never gonna happen man



regards musin

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 00:59

Musin,



I actually do not worry. The point I make is that there is an extreme scenario where some idiot politicians take and agree on a worst case route. If that happens we have contingency plans which the majority of the people who write here do not. In fact many have not even an idea of what any of the outcomes may be.



We have our little home here and have no intention of returning to England, unless they do not get the Crematorium working in the south!!!!



Thank you for your concern.

David

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 01:06

PP ......"And that means no more protection for people taking what isn't theirs. "

Does this analogy include whats happening in the south or does this not count ??

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 14:17

Pikey says "the TRNC will have to go in a reunified Cyprus".



They don't have to do anything that doesn't suit, Eric. I'll bet you your house in Slovenia against my mother-in-law that this talks process comes to nowt. How about that?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 15:00

Wyn,

I was given exactly the same information as Mark v piazza.And had it confirmed again only last week,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 15:18

Spot on Paul,



Mark is a highly credible guy, and moderator on The phpbb site.



I think we are safe in taking note of his opinion! Although there are no guarantees with The Cyprus Problem.



What is more he has promised me a drive in his E type, if I am ever down his neck of the woods!!



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 15:56

Wyn,

Nice and steady mate if you have the donkey,Wacky Jim and Jock with you,



Paul.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 16:08

Frontal,



How about an agreement in principle for an exchange of mother-in-laws for a trial period before progressing on the TRNC existence issue?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 16:10

Msg42: "Mark is a highly credible guy, and moderator on The phpbb site."



Hardly a ringing endorsement coming from you, is it?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 20:19

PP

About this Exchange Land issue what do you actually think will be the outcome, not what you want the outcome to be but what the actual outcome will be ?.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 20:56

Pikey my old son,



Wasn't he one of the moderators, that banned you from that site??



Scaramanger wasnt it in those days. A James Bond baddie! Delusions of Grandeur??



Put your Special Constables Uniform on, and issue a few Parking Tickets, to all the big cars!



Pathetic (as I keep saying)



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 21:17

Problem is, and reason your argument is flawed Wyn, as a moderator he is very selective on who and what is moderated.



This is not a lone example some moderators over the years on the TRNC boards have become their own law makers. Most are excellent doing a hard job under trying conditions at times.



Afraid you still have a lot to learn about TRNC BB's.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
30/08/2008 21:43

CIH,



These Boards have rules, which we all agree to when we take up our membership.



It is the moderators responsibility and duty to impose those rules. Of course they have

individual discretion, but invariably they act in good faith and in the interests of the majority of members.



In my opinion decency, common courtesy, respect for each other and perhaps a little bonhomie are the true prerequisites for membership. Anyone not displaying these attributes deserves all the censorship that they get.



Regrettably Eric Seans, in whatever guise he chooses at that time, has been banned from a number of boards. Clearly he posts here now because of the tolerance of the moderators.



It is up to Mr Seans how he conducts himself, but perhaps he should be taking careful note of what the majority of posters think. It is on this board for all to see.



wyn



I never came across Mr Seans until he attacked me, on a very personal and ruthless basis on this board ,and I hope my responses provide some light amusement for my fellow members ,as well as making my point to Mr Seans

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 00:03

wyn



i used to take seans responses on board ,however since reading some of his

posts on other boards i see him for what he is ,so anything he posts i by past

heaven only knows why he resides in the north whatever land he has bought on

turkish ,greek or any other.



kind regards

musin

orangekazzie



Joined: 31/07/2007
Posts: 1091

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 00:16

Wyn

Eric is known on all of the "old" forum users as he likes nothing better than to start a policital debate. He used to upset many people on Steve Harris' board which was the original TRNC bulletin board on MSN. MarkyMark and Eric used to have open slanging matches.

I used to bypass anything to do with him as it got to the point where all of his attacks were personal and ended up as nothing to do with the original posting.

Karen

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 00:24

Hi Karen,



It is the personal attacks that make Mr Seans postings unacceptable to me. I am sure most board members just don't want to hear that all the time.



He of course is entitled to his views, but I just wish that he would keep his responses pleasant and interesting to the majority.



Such attacks in my opinion, show people up for what they are.!



Regards,



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 14:05

Karen Msg51,



Was that the same BB that endorsed criminal activity? I was banned after warning people NOT to touch anything from Gary Robb, who was at that point selling AGA developments. Some expat BB members (including one member of this BB) were receiving commissions from Robb for every expat referral. Remind me what happened to Amaranta and how many victims there are? Do you still think I should have been ignored for starting "political arguments"? It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 14:06

Turtle,



I want justice for every Cypriot who was displaced.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 14:09

Wyn: "I never came across Mr Seans until he attacked me, on a very personal and ruthless basis on this board."



You forgot to mention this came after you posted my name and personal details on the BB, something that most decent people consider to be beyond the pale. Drink-related buffoonery apart, you should be ashamed of yourself.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 14:22

Pikey,



Wrong again. I raised some of the names you post on BBs, and from which you were subsequently banned. I have considerably more information, which as a courtesy,I witheld.



Forewarned, is forearmed.!



It seems that I am a victim again of Pike baiting. At least this time it is daylight. (they must have opened early today) Each of my postings are being attacked. As a courtesy to other board members, I shall turn the other cheek! You can guess which one, and who its pointing at!



Have a great Sunday! Spring lamb for us, with Efes gravy. (note I didn't mention the other little "f") Creme brulee. scrumptious!



wyn

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 16:59

Perhaps if Pike can keep any personal issues/ attacks out of his posts and just stick to the subject or harmless banter there will not be any further problems.



Will I don't agree with the vast majority of his posts I don't see the problem of his continuing to post as long as its not personal. I think the same principles should apply to all board members ie no personal attacks abuse etc.



Aussie

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
31/08/2008 20:15

No problem with that Aussie!



wyn

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 19:33

I agree with private pike and his alter ego susanne:

exchange land is unrecognised by the south as is the trnc itself

turkish ie turkish cypriot pre-74 is "recognised",

both by the ROC and internationally...



however since it seems harder in a number of recent cases

to get ptp for turkish title

which sells at a price premium anyway

and the chances of a settlement seem to be receeding,

you might as well go for trnc title whatever



well that's my pragmatic opinion



lastly if anyone harbours doubts about expats misapropriating

some elses property or land...

those "someone's" would not benefit if the expats didn't buy

so don't give me that old palaver



may I quote from a 1960's song:



susanne holds your hand

as she takes you by the river

she feeds you tea and oranges

that come all the way from china



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thread $f78 (TRegistryHook):

7c90eb94 +00 ntdll.dll KiFastSystemCallRet

7c90e9a9 +0a ntdll.dll NtWaitForMultipleObjects

7c8094dc +00 kernel32.dll WaitForMultipleObjectsEx

7c80a070 +13 kernel32.dll WaitForMultipleObjects

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thread $f7c (TRegistryHook):

7c90eb94 +00 ntdll.dll KiFastSystemCallRet

7c9

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 19:37

oops!



the relevant phrase from the song "susanne" is:



"you want to travel with her

and you want to travel blind"



geddit?!?



why feel guilty since you are not only not harming

anyone but you are actively helping the people

and the economy of north cyprus?



andre

MaggieAndBernie



Joined: 26/07/2008
Posts: 2012

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 19:38

Wow what was all that about??? did you mean us all to have all that info about your computer?????

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 21:40

dear all,



touched the wrong button and that gobbledegook came up

sorry!



my basic thesis is that without "reunification"

ie renewed contol of the north by the

existing republic of cyprus after 34 years

(an extremely remote probabilty IMHO)

there is little practical difference in any title of land

indeed "turkish title" involves paying a premium price,

while buying "trnc title" deprives nobody of anything

since any pre-'74 gc owner cannot be "deprived"

of something they cannot get hold of anyway!

likewise my elderly tc friend fevzi cannot live on "his" farm

near limassol, because the locals would do him over



explicit in article 10 of the treaty of accession of the eu,

the so-called "republic of cyprus" has anyway gave up

any pretext of control over the northern part of the island



perhaps they were not made fully aware of what they were signing?



lastly, since I believe susanne and private pike are the same person,

my reference was to a lyric in the in the song "susanne":



"you want to travel with her,

and you want to travel blind"



andre

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/09/2008 22:53

andre,



Illegal land-grabbing justifications apart, how much would you like to bet that susanne and I are the same person? Fancy putting your money where your mouth is?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 00:05

pvt pike:



"illegal land-grabbing justifications apart"



please explain what this phrase means



susanne:



your line isn't exactly independent is it?



andre

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 00:12

pvt pike and susanne,



before this gets out of hand



I will concede that you "may" be separate people



but how to prove you are not the same?



tell you what, the loser buys a round of efes in "kyrenia"



after "reunification"



it will be a long wait, I think



andre

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 13:19

ANDRE: "pvt pike:"illegal land-grabbing justifications apart"



please explain what this phrase means"



With pleasure. The occupation of a war refugee's property by a third party who can show no connection with the Cyprus conflict nor any good reason to be trespassing on said property.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 13:21

andre msg68,



It's always a good sign when someone is prepared to accept they may be wrong. Can I make that a REALLY BIG Efes?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 13:26

Same old tune.........same old fiddle............just different names!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 13:59

I do indeed Pikey!



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 14:24

Agree wıth you Andre



It has been saıd that 40% of the TRNC ıncome comes from Foreıgn resıdents. How do we know that? It was quoted by a reporter on Euronews. Obvıously thıs ıs open to debate but may not be far from the truth.



How many foreıgn resıdents have bought Esdeger or TMD land? As Turkısh title is rarer, whıch it must be, because the GCs say 80% of the north ıs theirs, then we might assume that 70% of property owned by foreign resıdents ıs 70%.



How would the TRNC be financially if people had not bought Exchange land and had not decided to buy in the TRNC? What would that picture look lİke?

What sort of state would they be in? What they be hurting more than they are now? If the 40% figure stated above is correct then you can bet they would.



The questiıon ıs did the TRNC have any choice ın selling the land? How else would they have survived? The GCs voted no after the annan plan and did nothing, absolutely zilch to ensure that their TC brothers had a better life. I repeat absolutely nothing whatsoever. The TCS were still treated as the pariah of Europe, exposed to broken dreams and promises.



People who say it is immoral to buy exchange land must be in favour of the TCs living an inpoverished lifestyle. How can they say with such certainty that they are morally superior? Surely their is an element of delusion. Perhaps they bought Turkish title because this was the safe option. Perhaps this is the main driver and now front with this mantra it ıs immoral to buy exchange land. Perhaps they have repeated this mantra for so long that they have failed to see what this would mean to the TCs, the hardship this would bring.



My buying of a property from a TRNC means he can enjoy a much better standard of living. He can help his family to live a better life and this money circulates around the TRNC. I have done my bit.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 14:27

blatantly obvious but I should have said



Would they be hurting more than they are now?

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 16:33

Susanne,

"i hope there is a solution for all Cypriots to enjoy this fruitful island"

so do I as long as it is on an equal basis for ALL Cypriots

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 19:50

mark

you are as always correct ,you see the cyprus situation clearly and post fairly



you ask what would have happened had there been no brits buying in the north ,well my belief is that the t/cs would of being so squeezed that there

would have been more violence,even the most docile person when pushed

far enough can become violent.

hardship and poverty changes a persons outlook on everything.

regards

musin

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 19:59

OK Guys.....The Big Boys are playing on.......Old Gits.... Site tonight.



If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the Kitchen!!



Campbell Thomas (just for you Rob&Jo) THIS COULD BE YOUR LIFE!



OK lads Bring it on!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
02/09/2008 20:06

ilc: "How would the TRNC be financially if people had not bought Exchange land and had not decided to buy in the TRNC? What would that picture look lİke? What sort of state would they be in? What they be hurting more than they are now?"



Perhaps if the people been encouraged by the Turkish leadership to actually work - and work hard - to make something of their country instead of selling stolen property the TRNC would not be such a laughing stock. Are you saying retiring public servants and paying them pensions from their mid-30s while the brightest young talent emigrated for a better life is any way to run a serious country?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 13:20

Thats very strong and insensitıve pp. Who said they were a laughing stock?



Lets be clear the bright and talented were forced to leave the TRNC because of limited opportunities. We have had this conversation before. To create wealth it is true that you need people to take self responsabilıty, to be proactive and to take risks. The government could have done much to facilitate this through discipline, education and the implementaion and enforcement of rules, however the TCs have been denied education, opportunity and have limited resources.



The GCS have denied the TCS access to International know how through consultants, whereas the GCS have this in abundance. They have access to the EU and International technical knowledge base as well as finances.



The TCS have limited opportunities and natural resources. Its biggest resorce and opportunity is the sun and the tourist ındustry. They are not allowed direct flights. This has severley restricted their opportunities. They could clear up the rubish etc but they lack the finances and knowledge to really exploit this. Who has stopped direct flights? the GCS. Who knows if the GCS had supported the TCS in developing the tourist ındustry then the TCS may not have sold the GC land. Why did the GCS not help? - because they wanted to maximise their own tourist industry. They were not concerned about the TCS.



The TCS make money through theır universities but they are in no way maximising their potential. Why? - because the GCS dont allow them to be recognised through the Bologna accreditaion process.



So to summarise, the TCS have not helped themselves, however the GCS have done everything in their power to stop the TCS from creating wealth and have done a damn good job in this regard. They have been aided and abetted by the ınternattional community who if they took a long hard look at this situation would be ashamed at the injustice they have created.



Susanne, there is a big problem in the relationship between Turkey and the GCS. I have said it before that this relationship needs to be healed, perhaps before any talks take place between the TCS and GCS. I do understand how the GCS feel about Turkey and they have vented their anger at Turkey. The TCS have been caught in the crossfire. At the end of the day I am staggered by Turkey, the way that ıt has protected its kin to its own detriment.



I think if the GCS had played softball instead of incessant hardball in their negotiations things would be different. IF they had encouraged the TCS to join their football team etc more trust would have taken place. That would have taken courage on the part of the GCS. This has not happened so quite rightly the TCS want the protection of Turkey and Turkey has fulfilled this.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 13:25

ilovecyprus,



As usual a well thought out and written article.



wyn

markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 14:22

I have to agree with Pike on his last comments.



ILC - The main reason TRNC universites are low on students, is that they got greedy a couple of years ago, and started pricing themselves in euro, instead of YTL . This big increase in charges emptied the previously full universities.



Tourism will not work in the TRNC, as hardly any TC will lower themself to work in a catering industry. If you bought in 100,000 tourists a week, you would need an extra 50,000 mainlanders to do the work - what would that do to the demograpics ?



It doesn't cost a lot to put rubbish in a bin instead of on the ground.



Turkey has plenty of skilled people that are available to fill any knowledge gaps.



The TRNCs main problem IMHO, is that there are too many appologists, as Pike says, hard work is what makes a country (look at China).

Civil servants sitting around drinking coffee doesn't make a healthy economy



Mark

ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 15:17

wyn



I have decided to take the sensible advice of some on these threads and stopped taking the bait from 'Trolls'.



Trolls are on almost every BB, are normally self opinionated, and resort to sarcasm towards others with differing opinions.



The minute they criticise others for a lack of spelling or grammar, you know they've lost the plot!



Ban them on one BB and they have to feed their egos by popping up on another, usually with a different nickname.



p.s. I look forward to meeting up sometime for one or three of those 'effing' beers!



p.p.s. Are you still on Windaz2000? Old, but still good!



http://www.mundayweb.com/jokes/windaz.php





rob

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 15:37

RobNjo,



Hi Rob,



Good advise I thought. As you will have noticed I have'nt bothered much last 2 days.



My observation was as it got later in the night (2 hours in front of UK) many posters were



getting personal and downright offensive. I have no time with this! I could see them sitting



there at midnight and later, with an empty bottle for company, and thoroughly embitterred.



Not my scene I am afraid. I am into clean humour.



I don't know if you saw the postings from Dutch Crusader for instance I withstood a totally



without any provocation attack on my spelling, education, career everything. It was



unbelievable. Now I don't want to go into a lot of detail, but I used to employ 250 people in



my Company, and I read usually at least 4 books a week. Now this Guy I can well do



without to pass light hearted banter. Anyway....I digress. He pulled me up over my spelling



but if you look at The bottle of Effes on my profile photograph, I was right all along.



I KNOW who the missing little "f" was...



Thanks for the posting...I concur..... MarkVPiazza was right. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!



wyn

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 15:58

private pike re: message 82



you talk about tc's working "to make something of their country"



two points may be deduced from this remark:



in a rare unguarded moment you are conceeding it is indeed "their country"

ie never again to be overwhelmed by the greek cypriots



you will now no doubt be pressing for lifting the evil blockade

promoted by the south, in order making it possible and worthwhile

for everyone in the trnc to able to get work and to enjoy a living wage



there is hope for you yet!



andre

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 17:03

andre,



No, I knew it when I typed it. The TCs have a stake in Cyprus as a country and as far as I'm concened and most concede, they will end up running the show in the north (subject to adjustments and the human rights of returning and enclaved GCs.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 19:38

If they will end up running the show in the north,why not help them do it now,subject to adjustments,and allow a token force of Turkish Army personnel to remain for their protection.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 20:44

I think the long term goal would be to have no armies in Cyprus (apart from the SBAs), but a Cyprus Defence Force with battalions recruited in the north and south may be worth a go. This force could concentrate on securing the borders of Cyprus against people smuggling, drug trafficking etc, and with a solid EU agenda may forget that in the dark days of the past they had their guns pointing at each other. But what the hell do I know? I only made Lieutenant.

davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 22:06

Hi all,



I have been reading this thread closely and was looking for some advice if possible??



I am about to complete on an off plan property on exchange land in the next couple of months!



But am now getting the jitters for various reasons as Im concerned that GC will reclaim the lands left and will persue owners for claims?



I have heard of talks about freehold deeds being converted to lease hold which also worries me ??



I am considering pulling out due to these issues but also due to the current credit crunch scenario and limited finance availbable?



If I pull out noe I will loose my deposits so far to date- But should I really tajke the risk complete and potentially loose it all or encounter into a legal and costly battle or be chased for further compensations or financial claims??



Take care d xxx

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 22:17

davidoff,



Caveat Emptor.



The property market in The TRNC is in a state of flux. Much will depend on the outcome of The Orams Case due on 16/9, not to mention the talks between Mr Talat and Mr Christophias to settle the Cyprus problem.



From what you say, you are aware of the facts.



I guess you pay your money, and makes your choice.



Good Luck,



wyn

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 23:18

Oi Pikey My old son I will tell you this and any one else, and that includes any eventual governing body I will fight to my death to protect what I have worked hard for and bought TRNC tile included, and if the Greeks think Spartans were hard B******ds then they've seen f**k all yet, and if there are any more ex pats in the north to stand up with me then all well and good, and if not I'll go it alone, and with any luck you'll be the first in line.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 23:32

shytallknight

calm down mate the greeks will not be taking any part of the kktc ,your property is safe as is everyone else is.

if and when we have any kind of understanding with the greeks it will be along the compensation lines .

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 00:21

Hi Musin, I'm just saying my bit mate, I could also have said that anyone who doesn't realise that after 35 years of occupying somewhere, there will be no going back to what once was, is dreaming, also that pillock Pike must live in the south I'll bet, but what does he think about the systamatic ethnic cleansing of Turkish Cypriots that was going on during the coup, thats whay the Turkish army got involved, as the British government didn'y want to help, so Pikey in a nutshell as far as history can say it's all the Greeks fault for starting the S**t in the first place.

hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 00:23

Davidoff

Really can't advise buying off plan whatever the title. Too many tales of woe and that's just on this forum. You may want to swallow losing your deposit and walk away, may save you a fortune in the long run and many a sleepless night. If you are too far down the line I think you should be ok with exchange land. There are many already completed properties out there at bargain prices and no doubt will be for some time. Don't count on rental income either.

Reasonable article by a international property lawyer at

http://www.homesoverseas.co.uk/northern-cyprus-property-law

I came across it through the company posting a thread on this forum, I can't vouch for them.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 14:22

shytallknight,



All that tough talk, but you will have to accept change is coming. Outsiders with no connection to the events of 1963-1974 who came over and beneffitted from the suffering of others, can expect unpleasant consequences.



If you came home to find some foreigner in your home, wouldn't you want to deal with it in the same way you would have to deal with a cockroach?

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 22:35

Wht do I get the feeling that you are related to Norman Bates from the Bates motel ? Sitting there talking to yourself making up ludicrous Stories to believe, you obviously don't see that things will not change the way you are expecting them to, have you took the time to search for Kofi Annan's suggestions ? I bet not as one of them is as follows, if by the end of the meetings there is not a saisfactory outcome, Kofi Annan has the right to fill in the blanks if he see's fit to do so, and this includes wiping the slate clean to start again, so no one has any claim to anything other than what they have now, as any other method would invariably cause a lot of new refugees and a whole lot of new problems, something Pikey doesn't give a f**k about as he is living in the past, Kofi Annan however can see the way to get rid of that potential problem is to wipe the slate clean, the obvious answer if you ask anyone with any sense, so Pikey don't be suprised if youi don't get your own way on this one.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 22:46

shytallknight,



Your post might have had more relevence if Kofi Annan was still in charge of the UN. He left some time ago, along with your grasp on reality.

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 23:24

You are obviously not aware that his proposals will be the ones to be adhered to, are are you so far out of touch with reality you find it hard to search facts out, as good old Scottish friebd of mine would say, you.ve got a heed full of mince ye didy ye.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 00:01

shytallknight



of course you are right about kofi annan,however as i have said in the past

there is only one solution in the end ,all talks lead to partition and whatever land you are on will make no difference ,turkish ,greek or other .

all will end up with compensation.after so many years even the two leaders know any other solution would be far too problematic and could lead to unrest

regards

musin

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 00:43

You are exactly right, and from what a UN delegate said, under no circumstances would they accept a new refugee situation as it would only cause unrest and open old wounds, so you could well be right again about the compensation route.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 01:40

Slovenian land deeds. Hmmmmm...



Was he last owner a Serb or native Slovian?



Its amazing how these things come back and bite you up the arse!



Happy days, how's the grape crop?



Lem

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 04:50

pvt pike,



we all know that both gc's and turkish cypriots were forced

from their homes in 1974,

(many tc's were previously forced out in the 1960's too)

and it is all very sad nobody would deny

but you have to cope with the present reality on the ground



however, in terms of any settlement for cyprus in 2008

things like the attacks last week in the only mixed villiage,

the intransigence of certain sectors in the south,

the continued economic blockade engineered by the roc

do not auger at all well...but you would say "trust the perpetrators"



there are very many unbiased individuals from the uk

who know the greek cypriots brought all this on themselves

as, and it is most regrettable to have to remind eveyone,

the greeks did in 1923...

after their botched invasion of turkey saw one million of them

pushed out of "eastern thrace" after three thousand years,

c.f. mikis theodorakis "the music of the return"



your general approach brings to mind the storm

of nazi propaganda concerning the graves of polish officers

murdered by the nkvd that turned up deep in the katyn forest:

true and factual in itself but er...somewhat "selective" overall



the terms "whited sepulchre" and "pot calling the kettle black"

spring to mind...



whilst you may be a well-informed and personable individual

("and so are they all reasonable men")

your take on the situation is irratationally biased in favour

of greek cypriot nationalist rhetoric

but like john osborne's failed comedian archie rice

"you do 'ave a go don't you"



while nobody I have ever met in the uk has any qualms at all

about holidaying or more in beautiful, maddening, unique north cyprus



andre

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 08:27

turkey didn't invade they intervened.

who has their guarentee in writing from the trnc gov that their exchange land will be safe in the event of a solution? please speak up. Where is this written?

cyprusishome how can you say that if it wasn't for the outside investment the tc community would be living an impoverished lifestyle.lots of tc's went to the uk after 74. our village has had no outside investment, no foreign development. the people are not poor. the only thing they now lack is the water which has been taken off to provide all those new villas with a water supply. so the development has hindered them not helped them. Your new villa development has stolen their water!

stick your head in the sand for as long as you want, the exchange land situation is not going away. mr t said that the solution was for all cypriots. where does that leave the expats?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 09:37

Musim M,



I would be very interested to read your response to firestarters posting!!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 12:55

shytallknight,



"You are obviously not aware that his proposals will be the ones to be adhered to"



Either you have a crystal ball or Talat and Christofias have told you personally what they have yet to agree on. I think you're confused.



"a good old Scottish friebd of mine would say, you.ve got a heed full of mince ye didy ye."



Most Scottish people I know have a far better level of spelling and education than your "friend". I take it this "friend" is someone you know VERY well indeed?

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 16:49

firestarter message 107:



appreciate your irritatation over the vaguaries of exchange land

as well as the water situation



there are no absolute certainties for any of this,

something many people find very difficult to accept



it all depends on what

(as the late professor joad would have said)

you mean by a solution...



my preference would be for a solution based on the status quo

but as I am neither a cyriot nor resident on the island

feel it is a decision only proper for cypriots and their leaders



tracts of exchange land given to tc's, then sold for development

should be well-protected in any fair settlement between the sides

since by and large they were undeveloped scrub/farmland prior



as regards written gurantees I would consign them

to the same archive folder as chamberlain's 1938 munich agreement,

or indeed the text of the 1960 cyprus power-sharing constitution,

or even infamous article 10 of the eu treaty,

the so-called no-control over north cyprus clause

yet quite happily endorsed by the government of south cyprus



I would prefer to place my trust in the 40% of the north's economy

pumped in by tourism and the ex-pats, and the value of that to the trnc



let's hope the water situation is eased in 2012 when the pipeline is built



andre

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 17:44

Andre and shytallknight,



I note with fascination your views as to how an amicable solution can be arrived at.



What I think we can all agree on, as far as the land and property issue is concerned, it will



require a lengthy and time consuming formula, to arrive at something regarded as fair.



Given the collective anxiety of all who have invested in The TRNC and settlers who have



reestablished themselves in new communities, I feel that the only settlement on the table



that would be considered, is that proposed in the Annan Plan. Any alternative proposal



would take years to hammer out.



It is obvious to all that there has been peace since 1974 so it would seem fairly obvious



that those borders should be maintained.



Now, if an agreement can be reached for two independant states to work under an



umbrella Government, within the EC, with appropriate representation, then it seems to me



an agreement can be reached. I cannot see Turkey withdrawing their troops without it.



It really annoys me personally, when reference is made to "two commies" trying to negotiate



a settlement, and if we could substitute a more realistic," leaders acting in good faith"



and put to one side some of the bitterness and hatred, then given good faith, a little



tolerance an amicable settlement will be possible. Evil deeds of the past should never be



forgotten, but forgiven,and put to one side, to allow progress to a peaceful future.



My best wishes go to both leaders, in the hope, that a fair and amicable settlement, can be



found. Negative views, only reflect individual fears and anxieties, and in my opinion are best



kept to oneself, at this critical time.



Just my view, that is all,



wyn

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 18:18

msge 107

I think you were aiming the majority of your comments at me not CIS?



It seems clear that many TCs are better off than a large number of other people in the world. Most have TV's (an indicator of a certain standard of living) etc whereas 70% of the worlds population do not even have their own toilet facilities inside their own home or access to clean water. My comments were drawing a comparison between the TC's and the GCs, and indictaing that the TCs have been held back from achieving their full potential.



I also haven't seen it written anywhere that Esdeger land is guaranteed.



By the way, did I read on another posting that you own 3 to 4 pre 74 properties. Is that true?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 18:18

Lem,



Slovenian title deeds are generally excellent and there is no evidence of corruption which is one reason why they are in the EU. Ours go back to 1850 when the farmhouse was built. What can you expect from a place once run by the Austro-Hungarians?



Last year's vintage was excellent, thanks. More than 2000 litres of laski rizling and sipon which is going for £4 a bottle. Better value than supermarket stuff and ES' name on the label. If you were nearby I'd punt you a sample.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 18:22

msge 85, Good posting Markvpiazza.



Just to further my education, how does the TRNC prices compare to other university fees around the world? Do they charge more than other countries? What type of students and calibre are they able to attract and from which countries?



I agree Turkey would probably be able to provide sufficient technical know how. Turkey has provided finances. I don’t know what those finances are but have the funds been sufficient for real investment in the TRNC’s future or just enough for the TRNC to keep its head above water?



I also agree that hard work is key to an individuals or countries success. I stated this when I said that self responsibility is important. I also maintain that opportunity and resources are important.



From your post I conclude that you feel that the TCS are lazy. If this is true, then why would this be the case? Are the TCS different from other people in the world? Do they lack certain human qualities or the potential? What are your thoughts on this? I have some thoughts

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 18:29

andre,



I think the fact that you attach any great significance to the vandalism at Pyla village shows a certain small island/coffee shop mentality. If you think the actions of vandals (who can clearly stir up the idiots) means Greeks and Turks can't live together, you are so wrong.



Linking Soviet denials of the WW2 Katyn massacre (a bit more up to hate than your 1923 analogy) to my BB input is not only irrelevant but in poor taste. This is 2008 and Cyprus is on the brink of reunification. People like you belong to the Denktas years.



"while nobody I have ever met in the uk has any qualms at all about holidaying or more in beautiful, maddening, unique north cyprus"



A holiday is one thing. Buying stolen property is another. Are you one of those who would personally benefit from the suffering of a war victim?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 19:09

Two sides to every Cypriot story I think !

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 20:02

hi wyn msg 108

with reference to firestarters water conclusions ,i have to say i find it odd,the whole of the med is experiencing a drought ,spain, italy, and not forgetting the south water shortage is lack of rain and not from a few thousand brits ,the turkish goverment have known this for years and in 1999 started to build the dam ,which is now complete and the pipelines have now commenced we should have water and possibly electricity in three to five years.

as for non turkish residents,not just brits but all ,yes of course their money helps and to say otherwise would be stupid i have not read anyone saying that the turkish would be living an improvished lifestlyle if it wasn,t for the ex pats ,however if it has been said it is an incorrect assumption.

talat saying the solution was for all cypriots that means all who reside in cyprus

as for lands exchanged or any other 99% will go the way of compensation



musin

long live the kktc

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 22:10

Turtle there is two sides to every story, exept where that pillock Pike is concerned, it was nice of the GC's to build an airport on stolen land but I suppose that's ok then eh! Pikey, and as for the spelling mistakes that was down to hurried typing in a darkened room, and for the record I friend still thinks you have a heed full of mince, it's a shame he can't log on to tell you so, but I've passed on the message anyway.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 02:29

shytallknight,



An' ye ken fine when yer beat, neebor?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 07:24

cyprusishome, yes you are correct 4 pre'74 turkish title properties.



musin, i am very surprised that you can't see ,that the water from our village was taken to provide water else where. are you actually in cyprus? are you cypriot?if so think back to when you were a kid. all cypriots came to our village to picnic. that water supply is now minimal due to the goverment re routing it.



Andre where is this written that 99% of exchange land will be sorted out through compensation? an interesting view.As for talking of a fair settlement where land is protected, think how the gc's must feel. what is fair about protecting land which was stolen from them and sold on. nothing. talking of compensation who is paying for that? the broke trnc goverment? turkey? the e.u? home owner? please explain .

markvpiazza


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 530

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 14:24

ILC Ref message 114



The TR has very limited numbers of university places (50,000 per year I think), and those that are given them tend to be of the highest calibre - this is sensible given the needs of the Turkish economy. There are many wealthy Turkish families who wish to give their (not top calibre) children a university education, and many of these end up in the TRNC, due to it's culture, language, proximity, and lower cost than other counties in Europe (or at least was).



I think the TCs are the same as any other people - if you give people the chance of an easy life, with decent pay and a generous pension after 25 years, most would take it (recent survey in France found most graduates choice of career was to join the civil service !). A little while ago, I asked a TC wasn't he worried about the water situation, he said, no problem, Turkey will send some - this pretty much sums up the situation, if things turn bad, Turkey is always there to bail them out.



IMHO Turkey should have spent it's billions over the years on the TRNC on good infrastructure that would have enabled the economy to grow, rather than spending it on a grossly inefficient civil service.



Mark

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 18:32

good post (94) shytalknight.

pikey boy,are you saying that the turkish army were wrong for there intervention of ethnic cleansing,get a grip pikey its not going to go the gc's way anymore,the trnc is there forever greek propergander or not,and you can reply in your pathetic way as you do,so go on keep kidding your self, blah blah blah blah.



jay76

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 19:31

jay76,



Intelligent input, matey. Why don't you have another beer?

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 09:35

Got a speeding ticket in Scotland too, did we Pikey?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 11:42

Hi MvP



Thanks for getting back to me



Not so long ago the HSBC bank ran an advert in the Economist magazine to encourage investment in Turkey. They stated that Turkey turns out 450,000 university graduates each year. I must admit, my reaction was that I felt that this was probably too high even though they have an exceedingly young population compared to the rest of Europe.



Yes, I agree that the TC's are the same as any other people and Turkey should not have encouraged a dependency culture. It seems that things might be changing now though

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 12:28

frontal: "Got a speeding ticket in Scotland too, did we Pikey?"



No matey - but I've dished out a few in my time. Maybe to you?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 12:35

ilc: "Yes, I agree that the TC's are the same as any other people..."



Bit of an ambigous one, that. You can only compare like with like. Educated TCs who are capable or original and independent thought tend to find common ground for discussion with those of a similar background. Poorly educated, semi-literate people tend to be the most intransigent and nationalist because they believe what's been handed down to them and can't think for themselves. That's where the likes of Volkan get their readers from. These people are easily manipulated and defer to authority, such as the Turkish army and politicians. However, as the population gets better educated and skilled these types are becoming a minority and can be sidelined as we make way for a new future.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 14:42

msge 127



To make it clearer for you. TCs have the same potential as human beings as anyone else on the planet. Where TCs are right now is a result of their circumstances. The conditions that have created those circumstances have not been to their advantage.



I largely agree with your comments. The same thing is happening in the United States. As people become better educated they are less likely to automatically vote for a Republican candidate.



What I will say though is that it is not a certainty that an educated TC would vote for reunification. There are alot of complex factors involved. Clearly there are some very inteligent TCs on this board and reunification is not their automatic position.

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 14:56

pikey boy you already used that reply on someone else change the record,oh and the question was avoided i noticed,come on give me some more of your jibbery b_____Ks, or you run out.



jay 76

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 16:50

Re message 126, Pte Pike says that he dished out a few speeding tickets in his time.

As a special constable in the British Transport Police I would think it very few indeed!!

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 18:07

No, I'd have remembered the chocolate stains around your mush!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 18:25

twaddle msg 130,



You obviously don't know which other force I served with for 15 years. Does your resentment have anything to do with having your collar felt, by any chance?



Great handle, BTW. And so appropriate.

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 18:42

Thanks be you are not in the "Force" now.



From the way you come across the apt song still is "all coppers are bas@ards" well not all..... I can imagine you in your little blue uniform and your little truncheon alway's at the ready. Getting up your colleagues noses and them glad to see the back of you after 15 years.....nothing changed there then.



you need to update your members info my friend.

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 20:10

Take no notice, he's never been in the forces, the police or been a journalist. He's a Walter Mitty character, who has to get his kicks this way, sad really!

twaddle


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 245

Message Posted:
12/09/2008 20:22

I hate to disappoint you Pte Pike but I am still serving and at a rather higher rank than SC. I have no ill feelings towards Specials at all, they are very useful. But some seem to believe in themselves rather a lot!!

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
13/09/2008 07:24

mark re post 121.

turkey has invested bucket loads of money in the trnc for infastructure. the trnc gov wasted it so often that turkey sent their own workforce and machinary here to get the roads built ect.

the trnc wouldn't have a water problem if the people in the planning department had done their jobs properly. lack of basic planning and over development of certian areas is the problem.

most of the tc's i know either uni educate their kids in the uk or turkey. only basic education is done in the trnc.

had an iranian friend who spent 4 years at uni here. one class was said to be taught in english. he was horrified when he spoke better english than the teacher.