Is the TRNC a Civilized Country

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
22/11/2010 22:53

I raise this question following the poisoning of our family dog "Trubel" at a popular pic-nic area 20km above the village of Esentepe.This common practice is not only barbaric but is unacceptable in any civilized society.The subject of poisoning innocent animals has been raised on numerous occassions by those who have witnessed the agony and suffering of our family pets and yet the government do nothing to ban this lethal substance-I ask why?This is the third time our 2 dogs have been poisoned and the hunting season appears to be related to the increased level of poisoning.The herdsmen use poison to protect their livestock from the hunting dogs.



Only last week I stopped a local from throwing rocks at a horse who had broken its 12ft tether-Is this the mentality of a civilzed country?



The TRNC is desperate to be recognised by the rest of the world but are they ready for it?



Trubel has been in agony for 3 days but thankfully is on the mend.



Until her next walk!!



Art

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
22/11/2010 23:00

It will never stop until some sort of legislation is brought in. Its a barbaric country. No regards for animals and until they got cash rich with selling land, they relied on horses or donkeys and kept sheep in the rooms they slept in.The yuppie Tcs want designer dogs but have no idea of their welfare. Oh someone stop me. A friend told me the other day put yourself first stop worrying about dogs, how can i when they are dumped on me at the restaurant and my home now today x

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
22/11/2010 23:04

magicart im so sorry i meant to add but my temper got in the way, i hope your dog makes a good recovery,Im so sorry to hear this x

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
22/11/2010 23:08

RE msg 1, magiart: (...) not only barbaric but is unacceptable in any civilized society. (...)

=> When your (and my) ancestors walked the forests in what is now the UK (and Holland) in bear skins - people in Cyprus could read/write and built Soli, Vouni and later Salamis etc.

What right do expats have to call society in North Cyprus "barbaric"?! When people get old in (Northern) Cyprus the children and grandchildren care for you. Is it better in the UK (and Holland)?

I find it very unfair to compare the society you were used to with the society you have chosen to join (?).

TRNC is a young country and many changes are needed in our (and the local!) view. But some problems have priority.

P.S. Some people realise the (local) way of living here and don't let their dogs off the lease.

P.P.S. My dogs ran and played safely in our garden for the past 6+ years.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
22/11/2010 23:15

Navigate. Surely these are isolated incidents. You can't say the country is barbaric after a few isolated incidents.

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
22/11/2010 23:15

message 4



Could not have put it better myself... Totally agree

anlusan


Joined: 22/07/2010
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 00:19

its the uk you want to worry about, every day, they enjoy the pleasure of hurting animals.



yep fishing. Fish feel pain like every other animal, but there you have the brits joyful in their torture of this animal. Stick hooks in its mouth, drag it out of the water and throw it back in, just for fun

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 00:55

the poison of choice (forgot the name) is actually illegal. For selling it, buying it or even having it on your person is punishable with a prison sentence of 6 months.

cypgab


Joined: 09/01/2010
Posts: 338

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 01:09

anlusan - the topic is the poisoning of dogs in the TRNC not fishing in the UK. Start another topic if you feel so strongly about it.

yrret


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 761

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 07:02

All countries have people who are 'barbaric' if you want to use such a strong term in one way or another:

All countries have people who mistreat animals (inc YUK)

All countries have people who abuse children (inc YUK)

All countries forget their old and needy and let pensioners die hungry (inc YUK)



It's a real world I am afraid, too many people, too few values.



Sorry, you have to get on with not adding to the problem as fortunately most do.



Msg#9 the topic is not just poisoning dogs, it's about civliised countries as far as I can ascertain from the heading.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 07:48

Excellent post 4 DC I have to agree with you. Things need to improve here in certain areas and animal treatment is one of them, but I see many TC,s love their dogs and treat them very well.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 08:18

I agree with many of the comments posted on this thread but wish to make the point that I did not say that the TRNC is a barbaric country.If you read my thread carefully I said "the practice of laying down poison is barbaric and is unacceptable in a civilized country " and I stand by this statement.



We have lived in the TRNC for a number of years now and we have lots of local friends who agree that the killing of animals through the use of poison is unacceptable.



Msg 4...This is nothing to do with expats having rights in a foreign country its more about having compassion for defenceless animals.I also believe my dogs should be not be restricted to living in the garden for the rest of their lifes but should be allowed (under supervision) to enjoy their freedom without the risk of being poisoned.



Msg 5...These are not isolated incidents.Our vet confirmed that this is a serious problem which needs to be addressed by the government.Take a look at the threads already posted.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 08:46

LaptaMike

Re your message 8.

First of all the poison you are referring to is Lanate. Secondly its use and issue is controlled in the TRNC. It is only local councils that hold stocks and the poison is only available to people that own live stock and those that suffer from roaming hunting dogs antagonising their livestock. Unfortunately it is easily available in the ROC and those that have a thing about dogs (including some expats) can buy it freely from the ROC and do what they want with it.

There is a duty of care by dog owners to firstly keep their dogs on a lead when out walking and secondly if the dogs are allowed off the lead then they should be muzzled. I have seen first hand the devastation that can be caused by roaming dogs. My neighbour has had chickens taken by dogs and a couple of months ago there was a herd of goats that were attacked by one of my neighbours dogs. Cont:

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 08:53

Cont:

The police were called by the goat herder and the police told the owner of the dogs that they would be shot (the dogs of course, not the owners) if it happened again.

So there is always two sides to a story.

First of all your complaints about poisoning should be aimed at the ROC government because Lanate although effectively banned in the ROC is easily available.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 09:00

"is the TRNC a civilised country?"

It fails the test immediately by not being a country but according to those who believe they know, "the level of advancement of a civilization is often measured by its progress in agriculture, long-distance trade, occupational specialization, and urbanism. Aside from these core elements, civilization is often marked by any combination of a number of secondary elements, including a developed transportation system, writing, standards of measurement (currency, etc.), contract and tort-based legal systems, characteristic art styles (which may pertain to specific cultures), monumental architecture, mathematics, sophisticated metallurgy, and astronomy."

So, what the question should have been is "does the TRNC government ACTIVELY protect animals (or people)?" Now that's a question that would be interesting to have opinions on.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 09:08

its a third world country, pretending to be a first world country...............



The legal system / property ownership process is a farse.................

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 09:10

malsancak

"is the TRNC a civilised country?"

It certainly is not a 'third world' country and I have lived and worked in a lot countries that fall into the 'third world' category. Second world country? The UK is sinking into that category. It is all relative but unfortunately expats accept nothing short of what they are used to and are not willing to see the other side of the coin. They are their own worst enemies.

AJ

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 09:25

AJ, MY question was "does the TRNC government ACTIVELY protect animals (or people)?" In the UK there is an attempt by the government to actively protect animals and people.

Animal poisoning in the UK is treated as a crime and the people who do it as criminals - http://tinyurl.com/28xkepu

Another example would be that if a bank and a landowner colluded to put a mortgage on property already sold to someone then, IMHO, I believe they would not have allowed the property to have been auctioned and the buyers to have been evicted. They most definitely would not have allowed £750,000 interest payments on a £40,000 loan.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 09:31

Message 4..."I find it very unfair to compare the society you were used to with the society you have chosen to join (?). " ......Surely it's human nature to make comparisons on people(s), situations and societies.....I did and came here rather than anywhere else. I certainly didn't expect some kind of perfect society !



All countries have their problem areas and one cannot expect them all to be on the same social level. Those problem areas will only be addressed by politicians if sufficient pressure is applied on legislators over a period of time.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 09:46

We decided to live in the TRNC because we were very unhappy with the UK way of life/culture and I'm pleased to say we made the right decision.Its not perfect and it never will be.Laying down poison to kill dogs reflects a 3rd world mentality but I do agree with AJ it is not a 3rd world country.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 10:03

malsancak

'AJ, MY question was "does the TRNC government ACTIVELY protect animals (or people)?" In the UK there is an attempt by the government to actively protect animals and people.



Animal poisoning in the UK is treated as a crime and the people who do it as criminals - http://tinyurl.com/28xkepu



Your first sentence:

You got it in one 'there is an attempt' but it is not working is it?



Your second sentence and your link proves that it is not working.



Unfortunately a lot of expats move to this country without understanding the dynamics of the country and I would ask that we keep this thread on track and not start the property debacle again.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 10:18

AJ, that was just one case, try http://services.parliament.uk/hansard/Commons/ByDate/20091029/writtenanswers/part003.html

At least in the UK it was worth bringing up in Parliament

As to keeping the matter on track AJ, then perhaps you should read the thread title and not further pursue your own agenda as to what I am allowed to write about. Moderate by all mean but do not try to censor me.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 10:56

malsancak

How am I trying to censor you?

Perhaps you should re-read posting No.1 just to see what this thread was originally about.

If you want to bring the property issue into discussion then start another thread.

As far as I see it this a discussion about the poisoning of animals and the perceived view that the TRNC is a third world country because of its treatment of animals.

What the heck has the following got to do with this thread?



'Another example would be that if a bank and a landowner colluded to put a mortgage on property already sold to someone then, IMHO, I believe they would not have allowed the property to have been auctioned and the buyers to have been evicted. They most definitely would not have allowed £750,000 interest payments on a £40,000 loan.'

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 11:18

I believe that human beings are animals too and included the example of Akfinans Bank and Kulaksiz to show that the TRNC does not even protect human animals from cruelty. Obviously something that did not occur to you, or the original poster, was that societies that are cruel to animals are often cruel to people too. AJ, I'll write what I like and you can ignore it if you don't like it. BTW, I say this without being cruel.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 11:31

mal

Post what you want within the rules of the board but please do not try to hijack threads.

AJ

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 12:06

magicart wrote,"Only last week I stopped a local from throwing rocks at a horse who had broken its 12ft tether-Is this the mentality of a civilzed country?"

Difficult to argue that there was any excuse for throwing rocks at a horse but I suppose if the majority of those who make up a particular culture see that as acceptable then magicart's behaviour would be seen as inappropriate expat interference and they would say expats like magicart should leave locals to continue such, IMHO, barbaric behaviour. Some would even tell magicart to go back home if he doesn't like the way it is here.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 12:20

Have to point out that the indiscriminate laying of poison is a CY 'thing'.. :(



I could point out that to be civilised one has to BE..... but since April 2004 - I can't say that any more as TCs did vote to end 'TRNC' and the GCs voted to 'keep it ..

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 12:55

msg26.magicart, Throwing stones at a horse is truly deplorable....As for third World I hesitate to answer..



My friend and I found a horse some years ago which had been repeatedly stabbed in it's hind quarters,shot with a cross bow and had barbed wire round it's neck................... Third world mentality Yes.............but, this was in Yorkshire UK......

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 13:08

I do not agree with poisoning any living thing including weeds, but can I just remind our guests on this forum that our civilisation goes back to 10 thousand years. If you wish to see barbaric acts pick up a british newspaper and read about the activities of gangs who kick an individual till he is unconceous and then kick his head like a rugby ball.

When I first move to UK I though it was barbaric that two people at school yard would start fighting and everyone in the playground would form a circle and encourage the two fighters to kick the shit out of each other no matter how unfair the participants. Can we get a hold of reality please.



BTW if I ever find the sod who allowes his dog to defecate infront of my gate I will not mention what I intend to do with the evidence but it will not be pleasent.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 13:57

I agree with you abt treatment of animals. But please don't get self righteous and assume TCYs are uncivilised.

read your own paper, child abuse, daily stabbings, elderly abuse







look at what's happening in blighty :



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/justice/1485772/Animal-cruelty-convictions-up-by-42-says-RSPCA-report-Nicola-Collinson-of-Gateshead-pleads-guilty-to-animal-suffering.html



or http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/article2377481.ece

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 14:16

Totally agree with posts 4 and 10, and yes, I don't condone the indiscriminate poisoning of dogs I have two myself and would be gutted if they were poisoned. But repeating what other posters have said that cruelty of a far worse nature happens everywhere. Spain /France bullfighting England dog fighting badger baiting. And the setting up of childline in the uk says it all about the abuse and cruelty meted out to children.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 14:34

I agree with D.C. keep your animals "SAFE",it's all you can do... Banning poisons like Lanate will help,but for the determined animal poisoners the "Garden Shed " holds some pretty devastating poisons,remember our old friend "PARAQUAT"....just keep your pets safe!!!!!!!!!!Be aware, it's a minefield out there as regards animal welfare...

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 15:10

To repeat, these acts happen everywhere including in civilised countries. What is different is the way these acts are treated by the countries they happen in. MartinD41's point that a horse was even abused in Yorkshire is therefore irrelevant, it's how the RSPCA dealt with it. As my link shows, 1252 RSPCA prosecutions were successful in 2008 whereas in the TRNC... If the main argument is that it's alright to abuse animals here because it happens elsewhere then I despair. BTW, just as in the UK, I believe that farmers SHOULD have the right to kill dogs who savage their animals but those indiscriminately killing wildlife through poisoning should be prosecuted.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 15:40

Msg 26,



I agree by trying to prevent local animal cruelty I run the risk of being told to go back to my own country but I'm just not prepared to stand by and let this happen.Would you?



Interestingly my neighbour (a TC ) also intervened and threated to call the police.The stoning stopped immediately.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 15:50

I dont understand what you mean by civilised. Its such a loaded expression. No one is arguing that its acceptable to abuse animals. My point is that I am sick of some expats who go on as though everything is so rosy back in the UK.



You cannot compare the RSPCA with whats available in Cyprus. But animal cruelty is rife in the UK. Not only cruelty but awful farming practices. Lets not forget the UK gave the world mad cows desase. And its not that long ago that millions of cattle were slaughted because of a lack of a proper vaccine programme.

The RSPCA has barely scratched the surface of animal welfare.



I agree TRNC needs to do more, and all cruelty should be outlawed. But at least we dont abuse our old folk, we dont stab people because someone asked a person to tun down music on a bus, our young people are not stabbed or shot

whilst out with friends

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 15:58

msg34 I fail to see how the serious intentional wounding of a defenceless animal in what ever country,can be deemed irrelevant......Sorry!!!Not all crimes against animals end in prosecution but they are heinous never the less............

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 16:01

Sorry should be to msg 33malsancak

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 16:27

martinD41, irrelevant to whether TRNC is a civilised country not irrelevant FULL STOP

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 17:09

It is not a question of the TRNC being a civilised country. This distracts from the true subject matter. The question should simply be, "is the action of poisoning animals acceptable?"



Obviously it is not acceptable and I doubt that anyone would disagree with this statement. What I find very strange is those that continually remind others that they are guests in the TRNC and should therefore not try to change anything, no matter how disgusting the act in question might be. It appears equally strange that there is always a chorus of posters proclaiming the wrongdoings of other countries as a justification, when in relaity, it simply diverts from the cruelty being discussed.



To blame the ROC is unbelievable and shows the extremes some will go to, in order to excuse the perpetrators of this horrendous act and remove the blame from where it truly belongs. People have to be accountable for their actions........in whatever country.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 17:12

I don't think mmmmmm was blaming the RoC as such just stating facts. But I agree poisoning animals is horrendous for whatever reason.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 18:10

Bradus - unfortunetly when comments are made as to the civilisation of a people then it becomes personal. Also invariable people use we are better then thow patronising tones. Many of us know the UK, we know what its like. Some behave and talk as though they come from Chelsea or Mayfair rather then Rochdale or Oldham.



I agree posening is horrendous, such behaviour is unacceptable and should be punished. But please dont bring

ethnicity into it.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 18:36

Visitor/Msg 41: 'But please dont bring ethnicity into it.'



As a 'Visitor', you clearly have very scant knowledge of the 'inner workings' of TRNC - 'bradus' certainly does, as you would realise if you had bothered to read her proliferation of postings on this forum.



Before you criticise 'bradus', perhaps you should [presuming you are a UK National] 'brush up' on your spelling and application of the written word - only then might some people take you seriously.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 19:12

Mankind is the only perpetrator of animal cruelty on the planet.. If you believe that animal cruelty, in what ever form is uncivilised and barbaric, then by definition ANY PERSON participating in any form of cruelty/abuse/poisonings/torturing etc. in any country,(TRNC included,)is uncivilised and barbaric............

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 20:14

Quite right, MD41 - however we wereat Girne Police station today @ 0600hrs - there were 4 chairs for approx. 80 pensioners present - I hardly call that 'civilised'! They gave out 40 numbers................

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 20:19

tenakoutou, I have dyslexia so apologies for my spelling. Have I touched a nerve, from up north are ya.



I know alot abt Cyprus - being Turkish Cypriot and I know alot about wanabe colonial types.



I live in France - its full of up themselves expats.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 20:23

So Sorry tenakoutou, put your feet up me old mate , have a "TINIE" and pretend your in a civilised country, hard to do I know.........Iv'e tried . lol

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 20:33

Msg 43,



A great thread!!



Think you have captured my thoughts on the entire subject.



Art

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 20:34

Visitor/msg 45: 'tenakoutou, I have dyslexia so apologies for my spelling. Have I touched a nerve, from up north are ya. I know alot abt Cyprus - being Turkish Cypriot and I know alot about wanabe colonial types. I live in France - its full of up themselves expats.'



Sorry if I upset you - if you have dyslexia, then you did extra well!



You, yourself, are an 'expat' in France - I trust you don't fit into the category of the 'up themselves'!



Ceci bon!

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 20:38

Tinofcatfood - I am not an expat in France, I am half French you see. Its called Mixed parentage!



You Northerners - make so many assumptions!!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 20:43

msg49 from up north he ain't, try south east ..............

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 21:59

Tenakoutou msg44



It's a police station not a football stadium for god's sake !! Next you will be wanting a free barbecue & beer along with silver service & live entertainment. Would that be more civilised for you ?



Any excuse to moan...



Have you not sold your house yet ??

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 22:05

Unbeleievable

oceana


Joined: 12/07/2010
Posts: 395

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 22:41

I saw a little girl kicking her dog who she took out for a walk!!. I stopped the car and called her over and shouted at her!

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 23:09

Where is this thread heading,,uncivilised animal treatment is what I thought was the topic,am I wrong....??

oceana


Joined: 12/07/2010
Posts: 395

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 23:27

Msg 54 if you are refering to me, yes i did shout at her because I was really angry at the time when i saw her kicking the dog. I shouted at her saying how would she like it if she was kicked by somebody and that animals feel pain too... I did regret it later on for shouting at her because if i had told her nicely i could have been more helpful but i just couldn't stop myself when i saw her doing that.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 23:36

msg 55 No No. I was not referring to you at all ,I applaud you actions, I was wondering how a post about uncivilised animal cruelty turned into a spat about police stations.Re msg 44&51 lol

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 23:36

Post deleted

LOvegod


Joined: 22/03/2009
Posts: 161

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 23:45

Post deleted

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
23/11/2010 23:59

they bark for a reason

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 00:02

Hard life in Hendon then Eh?It seems to do nothing for your eloquence ..nite nite ...mind the Dogs don't bite ...

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 00:15

AJ msg 13, I believe it is illegal to own, sell or buy lanate anywhere on the island. I read somewhere that it was taken off the market late 2009 in RoC.



Oceana, msg53, I give our Efes a kick from time to time if he's being a bit boisterous (Not hard, more of a tap or push away with the sole of my shoe) The daft dog now likes resting his head on my shoulder while I'm driving and giving my ear the occasional lick. It can be disconcerting at times ;-)

oceana


Joined: 12/07/2010
Posts: 395

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 00:24

ahahahahaha

LaptaMike


Joined: 07/10/2009
Posts: 1679

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 00:35

Oceana, probably the most heart breaking time of my life was when I drove him to the vet the second time he was poisoned. he managed to crawl onto the front passenger seat while I was driving, shi**ng and being sick everywhere and just wanted me to comfort him. I had his head in my lap stroking and comforting him and driving thru rush hour traffic with the other hand. I was virtually in tears by the time we got to the vets.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 07:04

Do you call expat pensioners being intimidated by the legal system and facing eviction from

their homes civilised?



Makes their looking after their own elderly look a little racist?



Yes I know it happens in other countries but no quite in this way and the question is about TRNC NOt other countries.



Do not assume because you are not hearing or reading about it, it is not going to happen. It will; K5 FIRST FOLOWED BY THE NEXT IN LINE OF THE 1400 with mortgages.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 07:25

Since writing this thread "Cyprus Today" have been in contact and are going to feature an article on dog poisoning in Saturdays edition.You are proberly aware that Tom Roche is leading a campaign to ban the sale and use of poison and we wish him every success.



Art

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 08:00

Polly

Message 64

Please do not hijack threads.

Please read the original posters message 1 and you will know what the thread is about.

AJ

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 08:06

LaptaMike

'AJ msg 13, I believe it is illegal to own, sell or buy lanate anywhere on the island. I read somewhere that it was taken off the market late 2009 in RoC.'



It is also illegal to sell or buy narcotics on the island but it still happens.

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 08:07

AJ,



Thanks.



I do want to continue with the discussion but only if people keep to the original subject and are not abusive.



Thanks



Art

ceviz10


Joined: 23/10/2010
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 08:25

How imature you all are! Im sure you lot if in UK would be the first to complain

if you saw "uncivilised" at the beginning of UK!

How dare you call this ISLAND uncivilised!

Did someone hold a gun to your head to come here?

The short answer is "if you dont like it...."

The English have ALWAYS tried to change whatever country

they are "occupiying"

Why are you here?

Put your own country to rights before you start complaining

about someone elses country!!!

All you all do on here is MOAN!!

Enjoy your trip back to where you come from.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 08:39

I notice AJ only came in to tell Kulaksiz 5 victim Polly Marples that she was hijacking the thread and missed a dozen thread hijack attempts before that. Methinks he doth protest too much. Perhaps he'll be closing this thread soon.

Anyway the point is that, IMHO, a GOVERNMENT allowing cruelty to animals is as uncivilised as a government allowing water-boarding. That does not make the TRNC or the USA an uncivilised COUNTRY.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 09:23

Well said Ceviz.



The title of the post was is the TRNC a civilised country. Yet far worst animal cruelty is evident

in good old blighty! Thus the topic is not abt cruelty but abt being Civilised!



what does civilised mean anyway - its such a patronising and racist term!



'Why not have a title such as what can we do to improve animal welfare in TRNC'



Instead we get the usual brand of bigoted Brits, whinging pommes! Who seem to forget we know what the UK is like.



We would all I am sure, totally condemn any animal cruelty and support all those who seek to protect animals.

MrTed


Joined: 27/06/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 09:55

Hi Ceviz,



The aggressive nature of your post and your attitude clearly demonstrate why many Brits have left the UK.



Mainly to get away from people who have the same attitude and rudeness as you.



Your comments are unfounded and thankfully most people over here are civilized and can have a debate without being aggressive or rude.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 10:02

"Visitor", and condemn all those who do not seek to protect animals. I think some are saying that the TRNC fits into that category and on a scale from 1-10 score lower than some of the countries mentioned her. "Visitor," I also think the some French people protest too much but I wouldn't be so uncivilised as to racially stereotype you as you seem to be doing to others exercising freedom of speech on here. I say this without being cruel. Have a bon jour

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 11:15

Stonehousepub/msg 51:



So, you think that forcing pensioners , many frail, or partially handicapped, to stand in a draughty corridor for 5+ hours is civilised, do you - what are you?



I'm as 'fit as a cage fighter', but I consider the above treatment of aged and often infirm people of any nationality to be disrespectful, uncaring and, yes, uncivilised behaviour from a government department that has the temerity to erect a sign at various borders saying: 'Hosgeldiniz Kibris!'



To satisfy your curiosity, I advise that my property is not even on the market; however I, like many, wouldn't refuse a decent offer!

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 11:29

Ceviz, you are a disgrace to TC community. People can chose to live where they wish and have every right to complain about what they see is wrong. Only fascists would disagree with that. Unless you are a member of the Gray Wolves brigate in which case you are a lost cause.

However, the Brits in TRNC should remember that there are cultural differences and although they have the right to do what they do, the locals menatlity will only change by education. But please bear in mind,the average TC is more worried about where the next meal is coming from rather than animal welfare.

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 11:46

msg 75. Ceviz in her profile says she is based in Essex she has a lot to say saying she is only here as a visitor.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 12:20

msg75..YFred.....What percentage of TC's in your opinion live below the poverty line ?And how many are actually starving?I was not aware of these facts..

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 12:28

17% and 4%, mind you 87% of the statistics I quote are made up

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 12:49

Sorry to offend perhaps the Title should have been is the TRNC civilised in its treatment of animals.



I love animals too but I would never think them more important than people. Equal I would say.



Seems like I am not the only one going off thread oops only one pulled up though.

doggiesteve


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 265

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 13:02

The trnc government and some if not most nationals are not civilised in their treatment of animals or non trnc nationals.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 13:03

Martin, have you ever visited any of the vilages where the locals live after the crops have failed for several years or even visited areas where workers wait daily to be picked up for a bit of work? Nobody goes hungry because they are resourceful people and can rely upon relatives to get them through the tough times and buy the food from their local shop keeper on the never never. Do you actually live in Cyprus or are you one of these people who live in the posh parts and is blind to other peoples' plight. Naturally, a tory supporter I presume.

Compared to RoC standards most TC are below the poverty standard which is why they are offered free health care in the south. Civil Service pay has been cut recently, the private sector pay has always been below poverty level.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 14:46

An excellent posting, 'Yfred' - you are so right. Anyone who has driven up into the remoter villages, or the poor parts of Lefkosa should be moved to tears at the very obvious poverty of so many people - not just the Turkish and Kurdish workers - the Turkish Cypriots, themselves. If one is ever at the Metehan border at the right time, one sees so many of them who are forced to work for whatever they can get on the GC side, because there simply isn't work for them in the North, or certainly not work that pays well enough to support a family.



Often, when we are in a queue at a supermarket with our laden trolley, we see Turkish people holding maybe just a loaf of bread, a small pot of yoghurt and a coupla three tomatoes - so, so, sad..........

ceviz10


Joined: 23/10/2010
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 14:59

mr Ted msg 72 and any other would be "politians" on this Island.....

I married a Tuskish Cypriot 46 years ago....Ive been here "forever"

You would hardly call me a "visitor"!

Not that it has anything what so ever to do with you.

Just wanted you to know where Im goming from.

And where you should be going!!!

fukace


Joined: 18/11/2010
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 15:02

"Just wanted you to know where Im goming from."



is this a clever play on words or a geniune mistake.

MrTed


Joined: 27/06/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 16:51

Ceviz 10,



You cant help being rude can you?



Must have been your Essex up bringing.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 17:21

Malsancak, Unlike the UK, France is not an impoverished nation, no massive debt. We don't have people dying on our hospital wards from filth and lack of money to purchase drugs. We don't have cancer care that rates after developing nations like Bulgaria. Our country isn't infested with youth crime and unwanted teenage pregnancies.



What I don't understand if its so awful for some of you in TRNC why don't you return to sunny Doncaster or Peckham! Your constantly telling foreigners in the UK to go back home.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 17:23

"Visitor", you defend yourself well. You sure you're French?

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 17:31

Some examples of animal welfare from the CIVILISED UK:





http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3212308/Worst-animal-cruelty-case-ever.html



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/mysun/2897602/Animal-cruelty-rife-in-the-UK.html



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2420545/Guilty-five-beasts-of-horse-hell-animal-Auschwitz-farm.html



http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/news/3102168/Animal-cruelty-as-thugs-slaughter-and-dump-pet-lamb-in-Sauchie-Clackmannanshire.html



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3223020/Sick-thugs-cut-cats-head-off.html



http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/57122/Worst-animal-cruelty-cases.html

fukace


Joined: 18/11/2010
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 17:35

defending an agruement with the Sun newspaper is a little preverse

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 17:41

fukace, I'm not sure if "Visitor" knows what he's fighting for. He believes we're saying that uncivilised things never happen in UK and that they all go around with umbrellas and wear bowler hats

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 18:01

Well its the biggest selling newspaper in the uk. If you like I can post similar stories from the Mail or Express etc.





The arguments being made by some on this thread is that Turkish Cypriots are uncivilised, because of there treatment of animals. My point is best demonstated by the English saying`people in glass houses shouldnt throw stones`



I hate bad treatment of animals but it has nothing to do with a persons Race.



Most brits go round in Primark - they cant afford bowler hats.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 18:08

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-56272/Animal-cruelty-reported-19-seconds.html



An article from the daily hate mail

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 18:15

I like that visitor that's funny!



Most brits go round in Primark - they cant afford bowler hats.

jamestalbot


Joined: 20/12/2009
Posts: 958

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 18:25

I agree with message 4and 81, also cruelty to animals is not just as many people seem to think confined to TRNC, England has many cases of animal cruelty, so don,t call the TCs.



It happens all over then world.

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 18:26

Matalan is haute couture I believe but that's the English. The Welsh, Scots and those from Northern Ireland dress properly. "Visitor," my point of view is that the argument is about defending against cruelty not the acts of cruelty themselves. Cruelty appears in every country.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 20:06

msg 81&82 It sounds very like Kenya, but at least they are not being murdered in their beds........I am not surprised by this ,every country has it's poverty Zone ,Even the USA ,the "Richest and some would say (malsancak) the most Civilised Nation on Earth with 37million people living in abject poverty. referring back to the first post is the TRNC Civilised??

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 20:14

The USA, the most civilised nation on Earth, MartinD41 do behave!!! Everyone knows that the cradle of civilisation is the Middle East - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cradle_of_civilization

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 20:40

msg97 Isn't WIKI wonderful...No wonder you are an A level GCE Moderator,but the question remains,after reading posts 81 & 82 is the TRNC Civilised?

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 20:48

martinD41. No one want's to answer that question, they would rather bash the UK.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 20:56

Woodspeckie - what is civilised? Name one country that is civilised

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 20:59

I would'nt worry about the financial situation of TC's too much they are better off than a lot of you, even the villagers !!



message74 Tankoutou



What I am trying to say is that this thread is not about counting the chairs in Girne police station !!



Have you been moaning about Cyprus in this way for the past 30 years ?



Why do you find it so difficult to stay within the concept of the original posting ?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 21:08

The truth is, I prefer the TRNC to the UK, and feel more at home here, but that is because of the people not the current government's inaction on matters they should, IMHO, take a more active stance. That includes cruelty to animals.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 21:29

...............whatc out......moanıng........whinging britts are about again.........with nothing better to doooooooooooooooooooooooo..........................



Get a life and go and do something usefull for a change.



İf you dont like what you see.................shut the door.

ceviz10


Joined: 23/10/2010
Posts: 24

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 21:34

Mr Ted

who is being rude now?

You see I was born and grew up in BOW

thats in the EAST END of london,

in case you dont know.

And I imagine you come from

up norf as we londoners like to say.

And by the way IM PROUD OF IT.

Now Im PROUD to be part of this

Island.So I will not let you be rude to me

or where I was brought up OR this

lovely Island.

fukace


Joined: 18/11/2010
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 21:38

are these the poor who sold their land to developers to destroy a once beautiful island

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 21:39

Message102



I totally agree with you.



However we all know the UK is not perfect, it is probably one of the most violent countries in the world. Respect does not exist in the UK anymore. The elderly are getting bashed to death, robberies & muggings are everyday inccidents, shootings, stabbings etc etc.



Is this not a sign of real poverty ?



How many of you would feel safe in the UK ?



The poisoning of an innocent animal is unexceptable. But using this inccident to brand the TRNC & TC's as barbaric & uncivilised is also unexceptable...

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
24/11/2010 21:51

"Unacceptable" apologies

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 06:54

Yozgozlu, "Get a life and go and do something usefull for a change"

I was thinking of going down to Alsancak Belediyesi to try and stop them turning Malatya into a sh*thole, but then perhaps I'll stop moaning and let them get on with it, perhaps TCs are happier with it that way.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 07:13

malsancah,



"Get a life and go and do something usefull for a change"



>>>"going down to Alsancak Belediyesi to try and stop them turning Malatya into a sh*thole"<<<





>>"I was thinking "<<





mmmmmmm........not very constructive,is it?

malsancak


Joined: 23/08/2009
Posts: 2874

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 08:27

at least it isn't destructive, Yorg, more than I can say for those whose thoughtless actions are turning Malatya into a rubbish dump and destroying what used to be beautiful countryside.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 08:27

Stonehousepub/Msg 106:



I agree with the contents of your message - wow, we agree on something(s) for once! Having said that, I don't know much about life in UK nowadays, as I haven't set foot there since 1996, and that was only for a fortnight.



If YOU were standing in a queue of 60+ people at Girne police station, having made the effort to be there by 0600hrs, would you not have an ounce of compassion for pensioners in their seventies, who were forced to stand for an average of 6 hours?



While we are on the subject : why do Immigration insist on having a copy every year and seeing a couple's marriage certificate if their sirnames are the same on both passports, and why, when they have previously verified that same couple's marital status, do they turn couples away and order them to return the following day with 'proof' - do they think that their countries' governments are all a pack of liars?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 08:41

Msg 111/Cont'd:



I will grant you that illogical bureaucracy exists everywhere; but here, a lot of the unnecessary bureaucracy targeted at UK pensioners, many who have been here for years, is interpreted by many to be both degrading and insulting, apart from showing up the completely pathetic inefficiency of the system. If it is designed to provide work for the 'army' of grossly overstaffed and overpaid bureaucrats, then why are not more of these [clearly surplus to requirements] staff trained and made to process this mountain of paperwork the government insists on, instead of, as at Girne police station, two staff to handle these enormous queues?



They would be doing both themselves, and everyone subjected to this archaic inefficiency, a favour if they could only realise it!

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
11/12/2010 20:17

is poison not illegal..??

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
12/12/2010 10:36

I'm not certain and its a good question!



The retriction of poison would help but somehow the culture has to change-only the people can do that -perhaps with a bit of education.



Art.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
12/12/2010 16:33

"How many of you would feel safe in the UK ?"



I do.



"However we all know the UK is not perfect, it is probably one of the most violent countries in the world. Respect does not exist in the UK anymore. The elderly are getting bashed to death, robberies & muggings are everyday inccidents, shootings, stabbings etc etc."



Talk about a sweeping generalisation, and no way is the UK 'one of the most violent countries in the world'. The chances of 'getting bashed to death, robbed, mugged, shot or stabbed' are really low, more chance of winning the lottery.

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
13/12/2010 02:37

Message 106 - are you serious ? Or just a half wit like most of the brit expats who post on this forum!!

Message 115 - exactly !!!

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 01:13

littlejohn i believe ? msg 106 is cypriot............

Stonehousepub


Joined: 21/05/2009
Posts: 755

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 23:58

msg 116



Am I serious about what ??

littlejohn


Joined: 09/03/2009
Posts: 316

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 02:26

Your idiotic comments about conditions in the UK.

The UK is still one of the most civilised countries in the world unless, of course, you want to take the actions of a very tiny minority as being typical !!

Stop reading the daily mail. Look at all the positives !!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 07:47

I'm going to try to be general here rather then targetting a particular msg.



Would it be right to say ,'you all knew,you had to obtain temp residency' every year?

Did you all not know,maybe not everything but at least some of 'Cypriot way of living'?

Did you all not know that 'Cyprus' is divided to two parts?

Did you all not know that 'TRNC is NOT' a recognised part?

Did you all not know that 'TRNC has been in isolation' for the past 36 years?

Did you all not know about all 'embargoes' in TRNC?

Do you know how long a TC citizen has to wait for a visa to go to another country other then Turkey?

Do any of you have any idea how hard it is for a TC to obtain a decent,permanent job with nothing,no opportunities available,thanks to the embargoes by 'you',the rest of the world!



With all above and many more beared in mind and the fact that none of you was forced to come and live here,you've got a cheek to even ask if Cyprus is civilised.



I'm awaiting for the day of peace aggre

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 07:58

msg 120 cont.

.....aggreement,where you'd all have to pay compensation to so called 'original' land owners,which is why none of you wants an aggreement and giving all the large ones about how bad EU is,despite the fact that all or most of you are quick enough to jump in your cars to go to south/so called EU part of the island for all your needs inc. flights.



so based on above,I suggest to'you' all to wake up and smell the coffee and DEMAND our recognition from your own governments whom are the ones for the couse of this in he first place and to this day,they still are.



I bow to the TCs that stayed behind in in TRNC to keep it going,however good or bad may be.They all deserve a medal, not critisizim.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:22

Yorgo said:

"I am waiting for the day of peace agreement,where you'd all have to pay compensation to so called 'original' land owners,which is why none of you wants an agreement and giving all the large ones about how bad EU is,despite the fact that all or most of you are quick enough to jump in your cars to go to south/so called EU part of the island for all your needs inc. flights."

YES! A TC saying it as it is. Those expat hypocrites should put that in their pipe and smoke it.

"I bow to the TCs that stayed behind in in TRNC to keep it going,however good or bad may be.They all deserve a medal, not criticism."

So do I. The TRNC government really should issue these people with Home Service Medals with bars for 1963, 1974 etc.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:32

Yorgozlu,



The chip on your shoulder is getting bigger by the post...



Denny,



The title of this thread and original post has nothing to do with the subject matter now at hand but it should have been more accurately entitled 'Are Cypriots Who Poison Animals Civilized?' as the indiscriminate poisoning and trapping of animals, birds etc, goes on North and South in equal measure...

magicart


Joined: 05/10/2008
Posts: 985

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:40

Please remove this thread -Its gone right off the subject and is turning into a political bun fight.



Thanks



Art

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:43

This thread is now closed. Reason: Thread was addressed and no need for further posts.