UN's Ban Ki-Moon - both leaders have failed to deliver

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:04

From the CY Mail



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/ban-report-both-leaders-have-failed-deliver/20101125



There is a link to the full report within



He talks about reviewing the UNs role in Cyprus if nothing resolved...

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:06

They call me the milkman because i never fail to deliver )

BillBarnacle


Joined: 20/04/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:21

I cant understand why the powers that be cannot accept the obvious



After all this time neither side is prepared to make the necessary sacrifices to acheive a negotiated settlement to reunite therefore there are only two options



1.The status quo which is unsustainable for a number of reasons



2.A negotiated seperation

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:23

They are both so scared of being the first to leave the table x

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:27

I can't believe they've had 88 meetings already.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:34

msge 4



damn right you are. The UN and the International community also need to shoulder the blame for this situation.

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:38

there will come a point when a solution will be forced on cyprus , it was discussed at the NATO meeting in lisbon that the cyprus problem was causing major problems in cooperation between NATO and the EU and banki-moon said the international community is tireing of such a small issue causing so much problems and seeming to drag on for ever .



they should just call it a day and go their seperate ways .

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:47

I agree andy. 'The party's over' as far as I'm concerned.



I better break the news to Paul (newlad) and tell him the direct flights won't be happening. )

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:50

On last nights BRT news showed GC Prime Minister addressing Parliament in Athens and said something like 'since 1960 there have been extreme right wingers who want Enosis (joining mainland) and still have a few today and that we (GC) have never treated the TC fairly'. Along those lines. I just wondered whether Christophas had been 'got at' during his visit to see Ban Ki Moon i.e. calm your retoric down or TRNC could be recognised - that put the frighteners up him - rather unnerved me listening to this after all this time. Anybody else see this on 7 and 11 pm news? Be interested to hear what you thought about it.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 22:52

"I just wondered whether Christophas had been 'got at' during his visit to see Ban Ki Moon i.e. calm your retoric down or TRNC could be recognised - that put the frighteners up him - "



An interesting theory Rita! I think the next few weeks will be critical.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:01

the un secretary general is bound to blame the locals and in a narrow sense it is true



however both cypriot leaders were elected and are oblidged to their voters and the parties



we know the gc's at least voted down the un-mediated annan plan in 2004

but perhaps were rejecting the very idea of compromise on their cyprus "problem"



christofias has excellent credentials for avoiding any compromise,

he campaigned for a "non" in 2004 and stated recently he is against compromise



although erdogan, and even more so his backers in ankara,

do appear more flexible on some of the more peripheral issues, ie security apart,

ominously, any offer of land for peace "this time around" has yet to surface



with a dynamic economy, new trade links and hoped-for consolation prize

for the blocking of its eu bid by france, the north/turkey seem to have most to gain

from a continuation of the present deadlocked, but stable situation



instead of blaming the front-men, we may well ask what

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:03

"instead of blaming the front-men, we may well ask what all the fuss was about"

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:30

>>we know the gc's at least voted down the un-mediated annan plan in 2004



but perhaps were rejecting the very idea of compromise on their cyprus "problem" <<



Oh, andre_514..



AGAIN, you prove you don't know the GC overall mind-set and 'ignore' all the good info I gave you ;)



1/ The final version of the Annan plan had no GC input - the UN were left to 'fill in the blanks' - a stunt by Liealotopulos to THEN say it was the 'bad UN' ....



But don't forget he told his folk to reject it as there'd be a soln based on EU norms of Human rights.................................................



2/ Most GCs DO want a soln. It's just that want they want and what TR wants (let alone a TC) may appear to be poles apart



3/ YES, Christofias told his 'flock' to vote NO ( but it really meant YES'?!) - as he ( too ) felt a better deal could be struck via the EU..



4/ Now he is presiding over a bad time for CY in financial terms and cannot easily carry his flock to accept he was wr

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
25/11/2010 23:46

message 13:



a workmanlike set of counter-arguments



the curious thing is how much energy we all expend on the mores, whys and wherefors of the greek cypriots



...on this I am as guilty as the next person



even though it is becoming clearer by the day that as the cyprus communities continue to diverge

for north cyprus the doings, hopes and dreams of our friends in the south are increasingly irrelevant



concerning this "no means yes" business surely somebody is taking the michael, to put it rather politely

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
26/11/2010

message 13 (cont.):





assuming that the "no means yes" gobbledegook was supposed to mean that cristofias

truly hoped to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear via the "eu",

would it have been a "better" deal struck with eu assistance (should it ever have happened)

or would it rather have been the eu papering over the cracks as we all know the un had to do

with the annan proposal and therefore invite rejection but by the tc's instead?



back in the real world no such thing did ever happen of course or I venture will ever happen



call it deadlock if you don't get what you want or stability if you do,

salvation for the gc nationalist cause we now appreciate with hindsight via the eu was a mirage

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 00:30

Give them time!.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 20:37

mark wrote.in msg 13

The final version of the Annan plan had no GC input - the UN were left to 'fill in the blanks.



and iam asking does anybody sign blank checks to anyone?

and their were too many blanks in the annan plan including blanks about the british bases.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 20:54

The reason why Greek Cypriots voted against the Annan Plan was because their President having negotiated the plan then did not support it, went on TV and cried for 2 hours calling for people to vote against it and claiming that there will be a better one round the corner. Has there ever been such a situation anywhere in the world ever. What plonkers my southern cousins are, follow like sheep straight over the cliff as it were.

By the way it is 37.5% of the land they have lost not counting the TC lands in the south which will be claimed back sooner or later by their rightful owners, which will probably push it to over 45% in TC control in the future.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 22:27

dear cousin yfred does the rightful owners of the tc lands in the south who have exchanged their deeds in the north have this right?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 23:02

Dear southern cousin Tracer, I am afraid due to the incredible stupidity of RoC not recognizing the TRNC the answer is yes. What is there to stop any TC with land in the south to set one of our beautifully corrupt southern cousin lawyers to establish ownership for the land. So long as TRNC is not recognized where does Esdeger documentation fit in to the roc court's evidence acceptance.

I am afraid that this non-recognition lark is a double edged sword. What will happen in the end is all the TCs will sell everything they have to the settlers and move down south to their land in due course.

Unfortunately by the time the GCs realize this situation it will rather too late.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/11/2010 23:41

A fellow GC member ina GC forum summed it up for me about a year ago when he said "TCs want a settlement! OK, lets have one, but what will there be in it for me (as a GC)?".

From their perspective its true! The GCs are internationally recognaised as the Gov. of The whole of Cyprus, they get all international trade and aid, they are members of EU, they earn a small fortune from the UN troops spending their money in the South, occupants of British bases also spend a lot of money in GCs establishments down South, they have no "land commission" where the TCs can apply for compensation of their property/land used by the GCs in the South (yet Turkey has one for compensating the GCs in the same position), and so on... So why on earth would they want to accept TCs as partners?

All the above is true because of bad, pro-GC politics of Europe, USA, Russia and even our so called "muslim brothers" in the Middle East. So, from a GC perspective "No solution" is the solution.

loulouis


Joined: 13/12/2009
Posts: 234

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 00:33

Most GCs DO want a soln. It's just that want they want and what TR wants (let alone a TC) may appear to be poles apart



Most Tcs DO want a soln. It's just that want they want and what GreekM wants (let alone a GCs) may appear to be poles apart .

LouLoui

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 00:52

BigOz, what do you think of the idea that eventually the border will be accepted and the TCs can move to the south and claim their land. Even if they have sold the esdeger land they were given because roc will never accept TRNC.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 00:57

loulouis;

That may be so, but the distance between these poles have increased considerably as well as their position over the past 36 years! A solution could have been easier 35 years ago.

What people do not seem to understand is, talks between TCs and GCs have been going on since 1968! That is 42 years! If one cannot find a solution in 42 years they will never find one now - unless the GCs are dictated to agree to a solution by some of their EU allies, who openly admit what a big mistake they made, allowing a divided Cyprus into the EU...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 09:42

Some of these opinions sound 'great' until you realise that they are based on falicy



re msg20 >>due to the incredible stupidity of RoC not recognizing the TRNC<<



1/ Readers will kindly note that the UN members voted to declare 'TRNC' legally invalid .. EU ( et al ) have to respect that... until....? ...



>> What is there to stop any TC with land in the south to set one of our beautifully corrupt southern cousin lawyers to establish ownership for the land<<



2/ Nothing, esp. now the six months residency in the 'rump' RoC requirement has gone,, and you wouldn't need to find a 'corrupt' lawyer.. just one who might be unpopular with his peers... it would simply expose the lack of rights GCs actually have compared to TCs re property.. and the corrupt nature of allocating GC property that has been 'allowed' to be sold for private gain..



GCs missed the boat in April 2004 and were sold down by the river by a now departed President who regarded a non-solution as 'positive'

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 11:35

Mark

that boat was full of holes and only the debarted president and few others notice them.

just check the economics/financial of the annan plan ROC should pay for everything . that is a very big hole at the bottom of the boat.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 12:30

Tracer, considering roc allowed the greek officers to be in charge of the national guard and they started the whole thing by overthrowing the elected government and went on a rampage of clearing the opposing GCs first before starting on the TCs, I would say too bloody right that they should pay for it.

But looking at the proposal in a little more detail, who pays for it was not put there by the TCs and was actually put there by the UN. The strange thing is GC did not object to that clause. When will the supporters of the GRc reralise that the old greek muhtaro had no intention of negotiating, did not even ask for Karpaz back even though he was told he could have it. I wonder why?

He needed all the ammunition in the plan to blow it up at a later date and the explosives were left there deliberately to sabotage it. Isn't that a coincidence, we are very good at sabotaging and blaming the other side.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 16:40

mark message 25:



once again mark picks holes in several contributions...

it seems to me that some members are guessing without much reading on the subject,

bit like an online wish list, or even whistling in the dark



but all is not lost

the gc's and their supporters have I venture, watched their last boat leave without them on it

so even for mark the penny has dropped since his postings were still quietly optimistic last year



thank goodness then that the trnc, valid or otherwise, is protected from dismemberment

by the two leaders' inability to agree!



even the most idealist student of the cyprus "problem" and its (theoretical) reunification deals

can hardly overlook the notions of a rotating presidency and federation rather than confederation

leaked last year, quickly expired in the fury of cyprus' populations



and I for one have never subscribed to the view that there are signs of recognition of the trnc,

nor that equally the gc's recognise the north's security n

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 16:42

...nor that that equally the gc's recognise the north's security needs