[ 1878 # 8 ] When the British called Kyrenia "Cerinia"

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 20:55

This a remarkable picture (1878) for several reasons! First of all it is one of the first or maybe the first with the British flag flying on the Kyrenia Castle. Then we see at right the old road from Kyrenia ("Cerinia") to Nicosia. And last but not least, the gunvessel in the foreground, one of the seven ships of the Royal Navy that have borne the name "HMS Bittern", after the bird, the bittern...

Picture here ▶ [ http://is.gd/hSDAh ].

LordJim


Joined: 12/10/2010
Posts: 221

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 21:09

you have obtained the artists permission to publish i hope ?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 21:15

Jim. Permission or not most posters on here enjoy the pictures. So please let's not go down this route.

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 21:20

"Cerinia" is the way Greek speaking Cypriots have been pronouncing the town name for centuries...so, naturally the British used this when they arrived.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 21:24

RE msg 2, LordJim: My server is located in the Netherlands and falls under Dutch guidelines. Check them out - happy reading... You can start here (translated): "If the work of art is older than 100 years..."

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 21:55

RE msg 4, iceman: (...) "Cerinia" is the way Greek speaking Cypriots have been pronouncing the town name for centuries...so, naturally the British used this when they arrived. (...)*

▶ "Cerenia for centuries", Mustafa? I quote from Excerpta Cypria: Kyrenia: Schernae - Schernœ** - Keryneia at 1211 or Gerines at 1631 or Cerina at 1814). The town, or rather village, of Cerina, the ancient Cerinia etc. (John Macdonald Kinneir, 1814, in Excerpta Cypria Materials for a history of Cyprus, translation by Claude Delaval Cobham, Publications “The Library” Nicosia-Cyprus, 1969, p. 418.).

* Perhaps the first reliable medieval reference to the fortress of Kyrenia occurs in the 'Travels' of Wilbrand or Willebrand de (also: von or van) Oldenburg, Bishop of Paderborn and Utrecht, (death : 27 July 1233?1234?), who visited Cyprus in 1211, during the reign of King Hugh 1. He refers to Schernœ (Kyrenia).

** When did people start to call the twon "Kyrenia"? Anyone?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 21:58

Sorry, typo: twon = town

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:02

1844.........

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:05

Guessing or knowing, Bill? (I know from experience how you try to win quizzes... )

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:16

Hans

I am having difficulty understanding what you tried to say on post 6!!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:24

Hans. Knowing!..

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:26

RE msg 10, iceman: Cerinia (this spelling) may have been used by Greek speaking people before 1191 (conquest of Cyprus by Richard I) but this was not the name used in the Middle Ages. At least not by the Frankish rulers, nor, I can only suppose, by the Ottoman Turkish rulers from 1571-1878.

Maybe the local Greek speaking population used "Cerinia" in daily life all along?

But what did the Ottoman Turks call the town? Must check an old(er) Ottoman Turkish map of Cyprus.

From 1571: Girne? Or is Girne the name of this town from 1974 or later?

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:34

Hans,

Kyrenia has been called so many names throughout history,below is a list

Ceraunia

Ceraunium

Cerenies

Cerigna

Cerina

Cerines

Cerino

Ceryneia

Chergino

Cherimes

Cherines

Chirigna

Cirines

Cirina

Corineaum

Gerines

Gherne

Keraunia

Keronia

Kerynia

Kyrine

Kyrineia

Orine

Sarinia

Schernea

Tzerne

Zerines

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:41

Iceman, I have seen this list (from July, 2009 - http://www.cyprus-forum.com/cyprus24832-320.html ), but I'd like to know the source. Do you know?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:48

I can't find a link for Kyrenia being called 'sarinia'. Can you help iceman?

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:50

book is called "Names of the locations of CYPRUS, lost in the depths of 2500 years of history"

(includes a bilingual Greek/Turkish map written in roman Script)

by Assoc.Prof.Dr.Ata.Atun

ISBN 975-6653-15-9



I have a copy..........maybe you would like to borrow that too..... for YOUR collection ;)

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:52

No1Doyen

Answer to your question is in my above post.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 22:57

RE msg 16, iceman: Thanks for the ISBN number - found it and try to buy it Monday!

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:00

references used by the author of the book



http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx2kVGxr

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:01

Thanks guys, some really great informative links and posts.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:03

To all who asked in emails: I'm not allowed to give the source of my collection of old drawings and photographs (part of my collection is a gift) nor am I allowed to sell hi-res or low-res copies. But I have seen many of them for sale at a stall at the Lambousa Market.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:06

Is Cerinia not the Greek name, same for Levconico? Can't find any answers on Google

The link shows a handcoloured news magazine print I have. The link just gives you this picture, you do not have to be part of Facebook



http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=305371&id=776581095&l=bc058c9b7b

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:09

Sorry meant to say the ancient Greek name

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:10

I love the name Kyernia, hate GIRNE x well done hans and iceman xxxx

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:10

RE msg 19, iceman: Some of the books (references used by the author of the book) are out of print and/or very hard to get. I have them all except "Excerpt on Cyprus" (author T.A.H. Mogabgab) - if someone out there has the book for sale..?

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:18

"Excerpta Cypria" 1908 -edition is freely available on the net.

Kinneir starts at p.412:

http://www.archive.org/stream/excerptacypriama00cobhuoft#page/412/mode/1up



Other references to some other old Cyprus-books freely available are on the netsite in my profile-inf.

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:20

dippersgirl msg 22

Levconico is the name used in ancient times for the village of Lefkoniko (Greek) and Gecitkale (Turkish)

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
27/11/2010 23:22

I personally like Sarinia.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
28/11/2010 00:03

Bill

I once knew a Sarinia, she came from Belarus!



Richard