Goodbye Famagusta, goodbye TRNC. Leaving; not comming back

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 18:35

So it is final; tomorrow my plane leaves to Scandinavia, and I do not plan on coming back.



Since late last year I have been trying to buy a place here in Old Town, Famagusta, but now I have given up. As almost everything here is pre-74 Turkish property, so it is impossible to buy here...unless you:

a) want to half your investment (i.e. buy before you get P2P, then sell on if (or rather: when) you are refused. In that case you new vendor-base has basically shrunk to TC's, and the price has plummeted.



b) go into partnership (trust) with some (for me unknown) local TC;....... knowing well that this person can find a number of "legal loophole" to take all my money... *if* he wants to. And still live happily ever after on the island; judging by a couple of other cases here.



c) lease, for 99 years. This was the most atractive (or rather: least unatractive), however, I was looking for freehold.



cont:

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 18:49

His plane must have been early,good luck,

Grey.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 18:50

The fact that the authorities changes the rules....without changing them officially, does not increase my confidence, to put it mildly. 10 years ago you got P2P for pre-Turkish 74-land; today you do not, without anything changing on paper.



How can you have confidence in TRNC laws, when they completely change the implementation of those laws...without any public discussion, notice, or transparency?





And I'm rather tired of people offering me worse conditions here, than I would get anywhere else in Europe, telling me: "But this is the way we do business here!"



Yes, I know, I know.

And the way you do business here has given you (both North, and South) the label as the fraud and scam-capital of Europe. I am sorry to be very blunt, but that is a fact.



And you did not have that reputation 10 years ago, or even 5, or 2.



But I will forever love this city; Famagusta is a wonderful gem that deserves so much better than what it is getting. Sniff.

Goodbye.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 18:52

#2.: I'm a "her"

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 18:53

You are VERY sensible, indeed!



I applaud you for coming to terms with the reality that is involved with seriously risking your money in TRNC.



You could try the South, but the same risks are involved and, in fact, there is much more falsifying of title deeds there, so equally risky and thoroughly inadvisable to invest.



How many more of us failed to have your foresight and are now stuck with almost completely unsaleable properties - either legally andcurrently belonging to displaced GC's, or pre '74 TT, like myself.



Please don't feel you have 'failed' - by going home to a civilised country, even if snow-bound, you will be heading back to normality and civilisation, and to, hopefully, a super partying Christmas and New Year season.



Although I only know some Danish [excuse spelling!], may I wish you: 'Gladley Jule!' - I'm sure the Swedish version must be similar!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 18:57

Sissie,

I wish you a safe journey home to Norway and thank you very much for the most invaluable package you left with me. I had a quick look and they are priceless. Thanks.

ismet

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 19:06

Not artefacts I hope! :0

stephen48


Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 224

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 19:10

all the best for the future.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 19:15

Probably the best move you will ever make .......Don't look back....Good Luck ....

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 19:19

A very wise decision.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 19:21

Best wishes for the future - sorry it didn't work out for you.

apples


Joined: 10/11/2009
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 19:36

its a real shame you have given up and going back when you love the place so much. ,My home is not on Pre 74 title but friends of mine who bought Pre 74 at the beginning of 2010 have now received their p2p and couldnt be happier

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 20:24

msg# 5: I''m still set on getting a place in a warmer place than home, and the RoC is definitely not in my plans, for various reasons. Most probably I will end up in one of the very regulated Egyptian resorts, like la Gouna. Funny, isn't it: you want to get out of TRNC (if I understand you correctly) , I want to get in, ...and both of us are denied our wished due to the P2P-issue on pre-T.74 land. Crazy, isn't it?

msg# 6:

Elko, I am very glad you like it. If I am not coming back (which I am not, unless TRNC dramatically change its laws & implementation of them in near ) -I hereby state publicly that you are free to keep them, give them away to someone who would like them, or to any charity you like.. Enjoy.



msg# 7: Pugwash: my one "artifact"..and all my maps and pictures of Famagusta/Cyprus are still left up north, and I expect that I will eventually sell them on ebay, or wherever.



What Elko got was all the book/magazines, you can see the list on my little web-site.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 20:31

msg: " friends of mine who bought Pre 74 at the beginning of 2010 have now received their p2p "



That is a most unusual situation!



I offered 10 K *above* the asking price of a property in the Old Town...on the condition that the money was put into a lawers account and put "on hold", until I got P2P.

No takers...

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 20:54

Sad for you but happy for you too! Good luck in the future. We went for the long lease as nobody to leave it to and have had no problems at all with anything - but each to their own. Wonderfull web site - thank you.

natalie


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 323

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 20:59

Good luck and best wishes for a happy future.

diane62


Joined: 18/04/2008
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 21:31

apples are you sure land was pre 74 turkish, ptp approval seems incredably quick for any catagory of land

cyprusjoker


Joined: 29/08/2009
Posts: 1107

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 21:35

So why won't you come back ?

Jefferson


Joined: 17/05/2010
Posts: 360

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 21:39

Good luck and be happy.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 21:55

Good luck wherever you end up. You have accurately summed up the dire situation in the TRNC. It's just such a shame that those in power have, it seems, absolutely no interest in their country or anyone other than themselves or they would be doing something about it.

flawww


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
30/11/2010 23:09

I need exactly that....

Set of balls, to get right outa hereeeeeeee!



Well, good luck to you. ;))) Carez.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 11:36

Thank you all for all your kind wishes, and the best of luck to you who are staying.



One estate agent put it to me that 10 years ago, when they did give ptp on pre-74 houses, you still had to pay upfront...not delay payment until I get the papers, as I want to do.



He has a point. But the problem is that 10 years ago Cyprus did not have the horrible, horrible reputation it has now! Too many buyers have scammed by the "just trust us"-people, and those in charge either don't care, or are plain incapable of seeing justice done. Scary. Very scary.



I looked at a beautiful old house here in December last year, restoration project, 48 K then. Still not sold, now price: 38 K. I offered to buy it at the old price, IF they could wait until I got ptp. No deal. This way; the owners will get so little for their houses in the Old Town, that they rather let them just stand there and fall to pieces....hoping for a distant "solution" which would increase the value.

It is so, so sad.

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 12:08

I wish you and yours all the very best.

Your story is sad but I suspect just the tip of the ice berg in North Cyprus. The powers that be are both incompetent and uncaring. They are normal "citizens" voted into the "jobs-for-the-boys" scene and have no formal training at all to run a business, never mind a Government! 50 plus MPs covering an area which would perhaps have no more than 6 MPs in the UK!!!

If ALL who were interested in buying a property took the stance you have taken, which is the right stance, the TRNC would cease to have a real property market.

The Law states that no monies should be paid before you get your PTP! Unfortunately GREED seems to put most peoples' investments in jeopardy.

http://www.no-deeds-no-money.moonfruit.com

damchi


Joined: 21/05/2010
Posts: 26

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 15:45

Some years ago whilst living in South Africa, a neighbour and family moved to a Scandinavian country where the husband had been offered a 'wonderful' job. Everything had seemed so good at the interview and there was excitement all round. The 'adventure' lasted exactly 9 months - the job wasn't as good as they had been told, the company did not pay their expenses of moving (as had been promised), they were let down regarding house purchase, the cost of living (compared to South Africa) was completely horrendous and they could hardly afford to eat let alone pay heating costs etc. So please try not to castigate North Cyprus as being the only country in the whole world where dreams turn into nightmares. I have lived in many countries in my time, some are better than others. I do not believe that North Cyprus is as bad as some correspondents on this web site is as bad as they write. Believe me, having been involved politically most of my adult life, some people are good

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 15:57

good post damachi

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 16:09

Damchi

I have also been, more currently, heavily involved around the world both on the military and political scenes including the UN and I can tell you this: Cyprus takes some beating!

Of course there are lots of good people in the RoC and the TRNC and I have many good family friends on both sides BUT IT IS very bad in Cyprus! I'll leave it at that as it is all about perspective

God Bless



http://www.no-deeds-no-money.moonfruit.com

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 16:11

Any country guilty of lawlessness should be castigated and that includes the TRNC.



We can all move to jobs that are not as good as we anticipated. House sales can fall through anywhere in the world and its extremely stressful but rarely do you lose the full cost of the house. Legal action can easily be taken if the job offer stated in writing that removal costs were part of the contract.



But where else in the world are you expected to pay in full for a property and hope that the developer will give you the deeds, as there is no legal obligation for him to do so? Which other countries refuse PTP on certain deeds but don't warn buyers of this?



Sorry damchi, perhaps what you are actually saying is "things went well for me" and I'm really happy for you, considering what could have happened. But lets not make excuses for the TRNC. THE CONVEYANCING PROCEDURE NEEDS CHANGING.



Worse still with a little input from the Government this could be sorted out very quickly.

diane62


Joined: 18/04/2008
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 18:20

Famagusta99 if your still keen to purchase , perhaps you should ask the freeholder wether he /she would allow you to take out a memorandum on the property at completion to protect your interest till political situation changes.

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 18:54

Reading this thread concentrated the mind on one thing.



Why buy at all. Why not just rent.



This lady was ready to pay quite a large amount in an earlier thread. Ithink £600k was mentioned.

If she only put £200k into a TRNC/Turkish bank of good stature at 11% with 10% tax she still has £20k to pay rent and for that amount per year would get a palace on long term rent.



Only answer to my question is -you would not get any capital gain. Well nobody is getting this unless they are / she is, waiting for a settlement with subsequent huge uplift in values.



The cynical side of me says that this lady was only a member for a week before throwing in the towel and jetting off home. A bit too rapid maybe? I think someone is taking the mickey!

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 19:44

Who's paying 11% tell me please.

diane62


Joined: 18/04/2008
Posts: 74

Message Posted:
01/12/2010 21:36

breezyboy, your last comment raises my doubts too , considering a couple of issues , why would someone consider buying if your aware of and worried about current pre 74 status, better to rent as you say. Also why contradict issue by quoting you know your friends have received ptp on pre 74. I sympathise but I'm a little confused.

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
02/12/2010 02:21

Hello folks,

I am now safely back in freezing cold (and extremely expensive!) Scandinavia.



A couple of points: My interest in Famagusta dates back some time (as you can see from my collection!); since late last year. (Just ask any estate agent in the Old Town...they know me ) I am looking to buy, and not to rent, as I am a hopeless collector, and I desperately need to "offload" a bit from my house here up north, which has become far too crowded.



And there are horror-stories everywhere; I could tell you some hair-raising ones from Scandinavia, for sure.



And North Cyprus has its great positive sides; including generally friendly people and a virtual absence of petty crime; I could walk anywhere, anytime around and feel as safe as I do at home: extremely important!



However; I just did not find a single way which I could safely buy in the Old Town. Leasing 99 years was the closest I got. Before my last trip down I knew that my chances of buying there were very slim inde

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
02/12/2010 02:50

msg 31, Diane62: I am not sure I understand what in my position you are confused about? As to your msg 29: not a bad idea...but the running cost of such memorandums, and the fact that such an arrangement has yet to be tested in court (I believe), makes this choice if you have absolutely no other choices, I think (say, you have already paid for your property and has been refused ptp)

I am lucky: I am not in that position.



Also, it is a bit...I´m not sure how I can express it without making offense...BUT: it is a great feeling of uneasiness (to put it diplomatically) about handing over lots of money (no: not £600k! That was someone else!) to a country which insists on treating you very much like a second-class property-owner.



My home here up north is a 200++year old house which I restored, and love. BUT: it is quite small, I cannot (and do not want to!) enlarge it. So, therefore, I am looking for a 2nd, in a warmer climate. Renting long-term is not an option.

zookeeper


Joined: 17/03/2010
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
02/12/2010 07:11

apples message 12, I am interested to find out the details of your friend's purchase on pre'74 deeds. Was it a resale or new development/build? And was the previous owner non TC? Can you either please post reply on the forum or email me @

patnmike@emirates.net .ae



Thank you



Zookeeper

famagusta99


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 68

Message Posted:
02/12/2010 10:53

msg 31, Diane62: now I understand you! Re-reading I see that you refer to my message #14!



BUT: there was a typo in that message (sorry, did not discover that before now) ...I was just quoting message #12! I do NOT know anyone who has gotten pre'74 deeds, and like the previous poster I would love to hear more about that case mentioned in message #12.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
02/12/2010 18:15

This thread is officially hijacked (one post only... ) for the benefit of underprivileged TRNC children: the secret is revealed here: ▶ [ http://is.gd/i68sZ ]...

zookeeper


Joined: 17/03/2010
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
03/12/2010 07:11

Apples please post in response to request from myself and famagusta99.