the cyprus talks

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
04/09/2008 22:18

demetris christofas and george iacovou have said ,regarding "guzelyurt" must be given back without debate,before negotiations have even started .

i don,t think it will be possible too achieve an agreement with such methods,they also have expressed they will be looking towards karpaz and maras .

i believe these talks will head in the same direction as all the other talks if the

greek cypriots adopt this attitude,maybe i,m wrong and the greeks will suprise

me .

musin

long live the kktc

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 12:26

Unfortunately for you the real Cypriots have already voted for reunification by electing two moderate leaders on a settlement ticket. Now the devil is in the detail. You are but a dinosaur.

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 12:50

Nice one Pikey, I'd agree the deals already been done, Talats got nothing to bargain with , an economy in free fall, Turkey no longer bailing the TCs out, his backs to the wall expect a sell out as its his only way out and the GCs know this, were F***ed.



D.N

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 12:56

Then maybe his only option is the EU, one way or another, I think it's a rock and a hard place at the moment.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 13:08

Pike



And it is this moderate leader who is making all these demands before the talks have started ?



Thank god we do not have a hard liner.



Freedom forever.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 13:29

Yes a deal may already have been done and yes the TCS have absolutely no bargaining power. How popular is Talat though right now? I am in the trnc at the moment. I have spoken to a few TCS about reunification. It seems clear to me that they do not want to be sold out and would not vote for anything that does so.

dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 13:39

Hi ILC, do you believe the TCs will get a vote? if they do will the full facts of the deal be known,I think our only hope is the Army refuse to accept GCs conditions and that will be a slim one as it would put the screws on Turkeys EU sights



D.N

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 14:02

Eh, eh, calm down, calm down, did you read Talat's speech on BRT tuther night. He's no capitulator. Why do you think he was in Turkey the day before talks began, getting his hymn sheet from Gul and Erdogan (OK, a couple of days)? Pikey, you are a naughty boy, you know that song 'Dead End Street' by the Kinks - benim kaynanna is packing her suitcase already!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 17:15

frontal,



I wondered what happened to that cheeky window cleaner out of Brookside. Anyway, you have to insert massive face-saving clauses in this part of the world. IMO the GCs are well aware of that and are cutting Talat some slack as he has Ankara breathing down his neck. He also had to come out with some rehetoric to keep the idiot partitionsts and nationalists happy for now. They are too dumb to see it though, as msg#5 shows.

littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 17:32

sorry to digress but



ilovecyprus could you contact me please

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 21:31

response from turkish goverment regarding guzelyurt ,"we are not here for a no vote ,but guzelyurt will not even be on the agenda "





musin

long live the kktc

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
05/09/2008 21:40

Hi Nige



Contact me on my personal e-mail. I will look at it tomorrow morning. I dont have my phone with me



Mark

boysie2670


Joined: 28/01/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 11:54

You'd think that brother "commies" would agree on most things,so maybe

the talks wont take too long !!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 14:11

Oh sure. They are real commies!

frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 14:59

Eric, seems most GC politicians are expecting talks to fail!



Still, you know best!



BTW My son calls me Sinbad, cheeky so-and-so!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 22:57

frontal,



I always thought you were a dead ringer for Sinbad which is why I have a soft spot for you.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 22:57

susanne,



My thoughts exactly.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
06/09/2008 23:31

I have my very serious head on tonight. Should people be scared.... Yes/No/I don't know (it's an indecisive head too).LOL



I have spent a lot of time in the South and probably the same amount of time in the North. I live with a 1/2 TC who was born in the UK. No-one can persuade me to side with their argument. I make my own decisions on issues, whether that is liked or not.



I read Talat's speech and congratulate the author. It was well balanced and gave some comfort to the "hard liners", like my father in law, husband. What was very clear from that speech is that these are the terms of negotiations. The starting point being TC's will not be governed by anyone else. If they can get beyond that hurdle, which will not be palatable to the GC then meaningful negotiations can begin.



I think (for what it's worth and contrary to my Husband's view) that a reunified Cyprus would be for the benefit of all citizens. Not only will it end the isolation of the North, which in itself is not beneficial to the people, but it will be a positive step to the economy as a whole.



Now, Talat has made it absolutely clear, in that speech, that the TC state has survived for the past 34 years with isolation and can continue to do so. Realistically it is feasible, if negotiations break down, that TRNC can continue indefinately. At what cost though? The drain on Turkey. The cost to the people of isolation, lack of tourism, lack of investment, and more lacks to numerous to mention on here.



As advocated by Talat, a united Cyprus, governed by two separate entities that can only be of benefit to both communities. Why are people fearful of this? If agreed under the settlement, a self governing rule. No change there then? The change and difference it would make to the people of NC is this:-



1. Entry into the EU and the money and benefits that would bring.

2. Increased tourism, direct flights, full hotels, bars and restaurants, cruise ships into Famagusta, more money in the pockets of the TC. The North would be buzzing.

3. EU money to save the ancient ruins, and historical sites that the tourists are only too willing to pay money to see.

4. Money to update the infrastucture.



These are just 4 small reasons why IMO the peace process and the talks

must bear fruition, for the people of TRNC who, in my opinion have suffered enough under the isolation.



Again, rant over. Sorry.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 00:13

kate

ask yourself the four points you have highlighted ,who has inflicked these on us

and when you have answered this question then ask yourself at what price can this be achieved .

turkish cypriots are not stupid and the greek cypriots are not clever.



kind regards

musin

long live the kktc

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 01:17

I do respect everyone's point of view and by posting my opinion on here I do not seek to change/alter/agree to others. I have my view. You have yours.



"ask yourself the four points you have highlighted ,who has inflicked these on us."



The GC's. But now you have the opportunity to change that, whether you will or not, or whether you will accept that or not is a matter for you, and of course the TRNC Government.



"and when you have answered this question then ask yourself at what price can this be achieved".



I refer back to point 1-4 and more and a self governing nation. And your problem is?



turkish cypriots are not stupid and the greek cypriots are not clever.







kind regards



musin



long live the kktc

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 03:38

I refer back to point 1-4 and more and a self governing nation. And your problem is?







turkish cypriots are not stupid and the greek cypriots are not clever.















kind regards







musin







long live the kktc







This BB is so frustrating. No editing, no quotes, no emotions. Izzy can't you get this BB onto phb888? Yes I agree you do a fab job but please more facilities x



Anyway back to the matter in hand - Musin. Quote above.

Of course TC's are not stupid. I live with one. I know.

Yes the GC are not so clever - so now - can you use that to your own advantage?

It's not rocket science is it?

I revert to points 1-4 above.

f

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 08:42

i do agree that the tc community should not have to be forced to live under gc's. as the past has shown that this is not possible. but i do also believe that the issolation has in part been caused by the goverments in the trnc. they have kept the population issolated from the outside world and influences for so long, that it has done more harm than good for the people. having lots of tc friends i find that the things we grew up knowing or taking for granted, they don't have a clue about. even though they are willing to learn. its not that they are stupid far from it, but its common sence and day to day issues they can't seem to understand. like pick up the dog c--p because it can cause blindness in kids. so many people in my village didn't know this. just one example but on a day to day basis i find myself explaining stuff that they should have been told.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 11:23

Susanne, where did you get that smiley thing from?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 12:41

Colon then close bracket



Great post BTW.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 18:51

w26kay



I like the quality of your posts. I used to read your posts of trncvilla with interest. This is a great post



I notice that the common theme in each one of your 4 points is the receiving of funds.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 19:08

kate

msg 21



"i refer to point 1-4 and more and self governing nation and your problem is"

ok maras,magusa ,guzelyurt ,erenkoy,and girne ,whats left for the turkish and for what ,as talat says we have survived for 34 years ,how about this senario

let the greeks allow recognition and then ask for something back ,but as long as they hold a gun to us and ask us to choose,then this is my problem and i am not alone

resources on turkey been drained ,don,t fool yourself turkey will never let go of cyprus and turkish troops will never leave and the quicker the greeks realise

this the quicker we can come too a settlement.



musin

long live the kktc

coolkid


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 19:31

do not know an awfull lot from past events I think it goes back to the 1950,s but suggest all will have to forget the past within reason, but more important is fairness to all peoples for now and the future.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 21:17

hi kay

a well thought out post, yes you are right about argueing with people views, but sometimes another person's view can alter you own view cos it makes you see something in a diffrent way!!!



all your points i agree with in a perfect world, i dont wont to sound like a pessimist but what musin is saying is also correct at what price and what will north cyprus be gaining only things that it should have anyway that is nc's human right, where on the other hand the south want land back (compensated is not eunf)and of course the most strategic places aswell as many other things

and what talat says north cyprus has survived 34 years without any light they can carry on another 34 years and beyond and lagain like what musin says even thou turkey wants to see a solution aswell but they are also not preparied to just leave their turkish cpyriot brothers and sisters out to dry financial burden or not

again the big thing is trust which again not trying to be nagative there is hadly none and the thing is education but how can we have this when items like this appear to add to the propaganda

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=41245&cat_id=1

and saying about rocket science and using it to the nc's advantage now think at like this a wild donkey is not very clever but is very stubborn and you try to tell it or try and reason with it wont listen!!!!

lets just hope that any kind of resolution is good for both sides not just one side cos its a two way street then if its not fair then the north can be reconized as a indepantant state or can carry on the way it is which many people in the north are used to anyway!!!

warm regards to all

ukturk

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 22:01

w26kay. Totally agree with your excellent post.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 22:35

no1 doven

you agree with what ,the turks giving away north cyprus to the greeks ,and where will you be then my friend ,out on yer ear son ,the turkish welcome you

the greeks they will rid of you ,just like the 60s .great post yes and it would work too if the price wasn,t too high.

north cyprus is turkish and it will stay that way ,these talks are not the first and they won,t be the last ask any t/c in cyprus and they will concur

musin

long live the kktc

joanie1


Joined: 25/07/2008
Posts: 164

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 22:51

Everybody seems so euphoric at the idea of EU membership. Thinking of vast loads of money being invested into the TRNC by other members of the EU. But just stop to think for a moment - yes money will come pouring in - but also rules - now can all the businesses (I don't mean the government or local councils whose workers seem to enjoy protected employment, short working life, great salaries and pensions and time to run various business at the same time) survive if a decent minimum wage with a working time directive limiting the number of employee hours per week is imposed on these businesses e g garages, hotels restaurants shops etc. Will they (as the British do) obey every rule of the EU or just take the money and shrug their shoulders at the rest. As far as the land/housing question is concerned what about 'possession is nine points of the law' and 'squatters rights' after 20 years - all based on English law.



I'd really love some comments/opinions on this - please nothing about thongs and the correct spelling of Efes.



Thanks in advance

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 01:37

Hi Geoff I didn't mention the house/land issue in my list of 4 as this is a separate issue entirely from some of the financial benefits that NC could acquire with EU membership. The list was not exhaustive BTW. There are two reasons why this issue was omitted.



1. It is far from straightforward, and IMO I am not wise enough to put forward any alternative proposals, save for relying upon the mechanisms that are in place now for claims and compensation. I would be very interested to hear if other members have views on solving this particular problem?



2. Lack of time when I posted.



I have thought long and hard about the issues of housing/land, as no doubt the higher echelons in the "powers that be" have done. It is a difficult one. You are absolutely correct in that this issue will have to be handled extremely sensitively. I simply don't know the answer. Sorry.



I have read the other responses very quickly this evening (as again time is against me) I didn't want to appear rude and not post a response. Some very valid points there. However, can I get back to you Musim, UKTurk and Joanie1 when I have considered properly what you have said?



Thanks.

Kay

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 01:58

ukturk"...turkey wants to see a solution aswell but they are also not preparied to just leave their turkish cpyriot brothers and sisters out to dry financial burden or not..."



Wanna bet? These peace talks don't just appear out of thin air.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 02:06

joanie1: "As far as the land/housing question is concerned what about 'possession is nine points of the law' and 'squatters rights' after 20 years - all based on English law."



You wish. These points have already been tested in Cypriot, British and the ECHR courts and have been ruled as nul and void. The only thing that has (illegally) kept Turkish and British settlers occupying Greek Cypriot properties is the presence (up until now) of the Turkish army. End of. And where do you get 20 years from?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 07:42

my question is: will turkey give up their chance of joining the e.u because of cyprus?

i think not.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:47

pike

long time no hear!!!!

belive you me i think i am in a better postion to quote on turkey's postion by living here, nearly every day there press reports on the t.v and papers on turkeys postion that they want a solution not just because they want to join the e.u and release the financial burden also the army have also said they are prepaired to leave only on the condintion that the turkish cypriots security is safe

and if it was a case to leave them out to dry they woul have done over 30 years ago!!!

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:21

Excellent reply Ukturk



Love the link on Msg 31 which clearly shows the real problem of Cyprus



All propoganda and wanting to rule over us all the time.



Nothing has changed. The only thing that they are showing us as a new carrot now is EU.



But I believe if there was a referendum about EU in Turkey at the moment most people would say NO.



EU will only want to accept Turkey in 8-10 years time as the population in EU will be too old to work and the ratio of workig to drawing pension will be almost 1 to1 .

They will need young work force but by that time Turkey will be firm on its feet and in a much more strong position then EU itself.



Biker

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 21:14

salih

we will be lucky if we are full members any earlier than 15 years .

and like you say where will we be by then ,will we want to join and how many more countries will join before then and more importantly will any eu country pull out by then ,climates change, its to early to worry about it one way or the other.



kind regards

musin

long live the kktc

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 01:45

Joanie1

Hiya. Now I have to cast my mind back a very long time to answer your post. So I will try, but please don't hold it against me .



There are two different points here -

1. " Possession is nine points of the law"? Actually no it isn't. I will tell you why in a moment.



2. "squatters rights' after 20 years - all based on English law." - Again No.

_______________________________________________________________

Answer to point 1.

This is a myth. There is no specific legal ruling which supports this statement.

Your statement meaning that possession, or the keeping of something belonging to someone else, is better than claiming you actually own it?

An example for you - If I loaned you a table and you kept it, do you think you have the right to keep it forever?

I have a redress in the law as I can prove it is my table, and I paid for it, and also to sue you for it's return, or, if you really want to keep it......the value of the table.



The moral of this story is, that everyone (including me) who bought exchange (esdeger) land knows, (or should know) that eventually they will have to compensate the rightful owner (if indeed they come forward). That is the gamble that was taken at the time of purchase. It is no good relying on "Good Faith" etc., (sorry Wyn), good faith will not mitigate in these circumstances. Ignorance, or lack of knowledge, or lack of advice provided by your "lawyer" will not mitigate either.



Now, I have to say that IMO it would have been wholly unrealistic for TRNC to have remained dormant over the last 34 years and not sold land etc., but, do not rely upon what you are told by TRNC Government, Estate Agents and Lawyers. There is a mechanism for compensation claims (on both sides) and therefore should you be the subect of a claim, you will have to stump up the cash. The Construction Industry as a whole and I blame Lawyers (primarily) - they are supposedly acting in your best interests? Yeah right? Estate Agents and Developers who have duped/lied/mislead the ex-pat buyers into parting with cash to line their own pockets. They are the guilty ones.



Having said that I am waiting for the decision on Orams next week.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Answer to point 2.

I will try and answer your point, in the best way I can, but again, please do not hold this against me.

Adverse possession, (which I believe you mean as Squatter's rights) is when you acquire rights over another's property.



For instance .....

i)a right of way you have used over a period of years as access on land that belongs to another, or:

ii)putting up a fence around land not owned by you because it appears unused by the owner, or;

iii)occupying a property for a specified period of time, contrary to the true ownership of another's interest in the property, and therefore acquiring an interest in this property.



These are just some examples.



The required time of uninterrupted possession has changed recently in the UK. There are different time rules dependent upon the date.

There are certain conditions and obligations you have to comply with in the UK if you wish to alter ownership of a title, such as informing the true owner of your interest in the land and specify your reasoning for claiming that land, and registration of your interest at HM Land Registry.



The situation in TRNC is very different. In the UK a true owner can come forward at any time to check on his property/land. This has not been the case in TRNC particularly when the "border/green line" was closed.



Therefore, you cannot rely on adverse possession in a situation where there was an intervention, and the true owner of the property was prevented from coming and going to his or her property in the normal course of events.

This argument would fail.



BTW - The

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 02:31

UKTurk.



I agree there has to be compromises. Both sides have to have a "level playing field" here. I don't think you are pessimistic at all. I understand the struggle the TC's have had, to get here today, and that they do not (quite rightly) want to relinquish any lands/areas. It is not a perfect World unfortunately, but, we have to look at the bigger picture. If they want Varosha? Do you really want it? I know it's Turkish Land and they have found the Deeds, Vekaf, but realistically it would have to be bulldosed down and rebuilt. If they want to do that let them! It's just one area after all. It's going to cost them big time to rebuild it, and, who do you think is going to benefit? Yes, let them build their hotels, great, fantastic. For tourism. My friends who have shops in the old City of Famagusta will benefit from all that cash from tourists. At the moment they are suffering from NO tourists.



Karpaz - no I would hold out for that (if it was me of course) but as I said level playing field etc., give and take etc, what are the GC offering? I don't know this? I should read the news more.



Yes Turkey wants a solution but at what cost? It is a difficult question?

1. Are they going to leave the "turkish cpyriot brothers and sisters out to dry financial burden or not" - to quote your words? And leave the belly of Turkey open to invasion? OR

2. Sell out to the EU? Relinquish the financial burden and leave TRNC to get on with the mess they have created.



Only time will tell?



Yes the "trust stuff" rears it's ugly head agaiin. Read your article and yes I agree, it's blatently racist against TRNC. The GC have to get their act together to convince You and TC's that they can seriously live side by side in a reunified Cyprus. More importantly the more articles that appear like this, the more they alienate themselves from the World. So far from being a negative, it is very positive to TRNC cause.



Kind regards to you.

Selam a lar size

Kay

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 02:50

UK Turk - there should have been a 3) there. I will deal with that tomorrow.

Sorry, I deleted it.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 22:30

kate

you forgot to mention guzelyurt ,the greeks have already stated this must be

given back without any negotiating .

and what will the greeks be offering ,their offer is ,they will recognise us ,very big of them. do you really believe there will be an amicable end.

musin

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 23:19

Musin I'm sorry I forgot about your post!



Yes I agree that they do appear to be making demands before they get around the table. Therefore it is questionable as to whether there is any sincerity to meaningful negotiations on their part, but I don't think they will do their "cause" any good in the long run if they continue their demands. Only time will tell eh?



UK Turk.

3) Turn their back on the EU and the huge benefits that membership will bring for Turkey, and of course the TRNC. Unfortunately they are stuck between a rock and a hard place.



Size basarilar dilerim.

Kay

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 01:31

kay

not that i want to drag you into a politics debate but please!!!!!

turn their back on the e.u please tell me what benefits, you mean the huge amounts of money thrown at these new countries to make them go into debit so they pay this off the rest of their lifes or how the euro totally messes their economy or how everything is more expensive i.e houses,utilities and cost of living and wages stay the same so they are resorted to leave their countires to pastures green i.e the u.k!!!!!

or even the stupid laws they come up with like a bannana has to be a certain degree otherwise u cant sell them tell that to the farmers family when he cant fed them

you ask anyone in any country that is in the e.u and uses the euro as their monatery system if they are happy they are in this dodgy christian club and u will be hard pressed to hear anything good



at the end of the day the days are gone where the e.u dangle the carrot in front of turkey and they say jump and turkey says how high!!!!! cos now they have wised up that the e.u needs turkey more than turkey needs the e.u cos of the land and sea between south of turkey and the north of cyprus the back door to the middle and far east!!!

so sorry u have failed to convince me on point 3



turkey and the north of cyprus are not stuck they are on top of the rock and they are in a much more stronger postion to the anan plan they blindly said yes too!!!!

regards

ukturk

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 02:12

UK Turk, I take it you cannot speak Turkish?



You cannot drag me into a political debate.



I think I have addressed this, inter alia in points 1 - 4 of the financial benefiits to TRNC. I am not going to repeat myself here. I can see my friends suffering now, (but maybe you have a good job). In Turkey?



So, you would not like "huge amounts of money" thrown at TRNC then? So, you are averse to tourism, a boost in confidence to your economy by investment? You need to think "outside of the box" on what EU can dio for Turkey and TRNC? we can all quote "bananas", and bamy laws here.



"at the end of the day the days are gone where the e.u dangle the carrot in front of turkey and they say jump and turkey says how high!!!!! cos now they have wised up that the e.u needs turkey more than turkey needs the e.u cos of the land and sea between south of turkey and the north of cyprus the back door to the middle and far east!!!"



As I said.... Only time will tell?



Regards

K

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 11:41

w26kay re post 42.

there is in the trnc a right off possetion. if you can prove that the land has been within your boundries wall/fence since before measurements and records began, then you can apply to the tappu office to make calim to it. we are doing this at the moment as we have a plot measurement problem but our plot and house is one of the oldest in the village. dates well before records began. basically nobody here can use a tape measure correctly. will keep you all informed on how we get on.

ukturk



Joined: 01/09/2007
Posts: 1974

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 12:23

hi kay

i am turkish so you would be mistaken that i dont speak turkish!

at the end of the day there is no job in turkey that pays well even the best paid jobs you would be lucky to get 2000ytl (£900) and this is working all the hours god sends but you have to think of the bigger picture, at the moment the cost of living is low so your money goes a longer way but if turkey does join the e.u this would mean everything will be in line with the rest of europe i.e cost of living but wages will remain the same so this would have a adverse effect on the population and like i said before they would then leave the country to find work in other places in europe like the u.k who in turn are suffering from the influx of new europeans going their for work



when you say your friends are suffering i take that they are turkish cypriots well my friends and family have been suffering for the last 40 years or so, i think they have got used to it by now the blantant the human rights discrimantion irelavant of turkey's intervention in the 70's

of course i would like money being feed in to north cyprus but being thrown at is another matter at what cost because most monies given by the e.u are loans and grants which are all payable back one way or the other and that means they will be forever in debit to the e.u again just look at other new developing countries that have joined how they are suffering

of course im not against tourisim but you dont need to join the e.u to boost tourisim do you? at the worsrt north cyprus to be reconised is good enuf for me that would boost tourisim and with that this will encourage investment which slowly is happening now with foerign investors aswell as expats buying houses and spending money on their homes which brings in much needed money to the local buisness

whatever the outcome it cant get any worse than it was or has been, e.u membership or not, reunification or indepadance like you said time wil tell

regards

ukturk

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 13:32

These are some of the things that Hristofyas is demanding at the talks.



1) no more guarantor countries for Cyprus.

2) Only allow upto 50k settlers to stay and all the rest to go back to Turkey although they have been living in Cyprus for the last 30 odd years.

3) Give back Maras (Varoshia)

4) Give back Omorfo (Morphou)

5) Give back part of Karpaz



This is a list of what he thinks he is giving to Turks in return.

1) A local federal entity within their Greek Government unit.

2) No direct flights from Ercan still. Need to use their airports.



Has anyone got anything else we can add to these lists ?



Biker

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 18:10

Biker,



I didn't think there were any preconditions to the forthcoming talks. I also thought in order to maintain calm no specific points already or to be covered by the technical committees had been released. Where did you get this info?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 08:03

re the airport situation. now i thought they were looking to re open the original airport in lefkosa/nicosia. not mentioned in the talks but is the general feeling from the south.

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 11:46

Firestarter



What different does opening the the Lefkosa airport will make?

How was controlling that before and who do you think will control it again if it is opened?

PP

The demands of the Greeks are known by all who has been involved in Cyprus affairs so far. It is constantly been repeated in all the newspapers.

I am surprised that you do not know, these being such an intellect.



Hristofias also dictates that the Greek side have given enough sacrifices until 1977 talks and will give no more.

lippylou


Joined: 11/09/2008
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 14:04

so after reading all these posts, i am none the wiser!!!

Is it wise to buy in Northern Cyprus?

Have they opened any airports in the North yet?

and have any decisions been reached?

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 14:17

Lippylou



Northern Cyprus is still quite a cheap place to invest. And prices have stallled a bit lately, so might be a good time to buy.

No new airports opened up in the North, but main airport have been renewed in the last few years and it is actually quite modern now. And Car park charges have been introduced too.



No decisions have been reached yet. I guess you are referring to the talks.

I would not hold my breath on that any way.



Biker

lippylou


Joined: 11/09/2008
Posts: 13

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 16:33

Hi Biker,

thanks for your reply, so in your opinion if we buy there, and are sensible, is our investment pretty safe?

Lippy

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 16:56

The airport in Nicosia/Lefkosa will never be re-opened. There has been too much development build around it in the last 34 years to pass safety standards.



Lem

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
11/09/2008 17:40

lippylou



Your investment is safe as in any other country. (probably safer than Spain, if you consider the latest fiascos we have heard from Spain)

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
15/09/2008 22:39

Lemtich,

What about Gectikale airport.Any news on that,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
16/09/2008 21:55

not much happening ,you can catch up on turkish press .com







regards

musin

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
16/09/2008 23:54

To be honest I don't think anything is going to change, the GC's look as though they still want their cake and eat it.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 22:11

talat has said the greeks do not want to share sovereignty,he has told (pace) this is the main problem in finding a solution to cyprus.

talat said the greek administration is still persuing an isolationist policy against turkish cypriots.

the turkish cypriot administration who believe that any power sharing based on

unequal representation within parliament ,as per 1960 is unfair.

at the moment i can see only one outcome with these talks going the same way as all the previous ,lets hope not,but cracks have already appeared.

musin

long live the kktc

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 22:29

Musin,

Totally agree with you the gcs will not want to make any concessions as they have to much to loose.When Talat starts reminding them that the tcs were promised lots of things from the last talks and have received nothing he gets talked down ad told that he is not being pro-active.Seems so one sided to me.And as usual the eu have their hands tied behind their backs.Such a shame really as this will be the last chance saloon,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 22:50

paul

sooner or later something has to be done for the t/cs even if the greeks don,t like it .

i find it hard to understand the greeks they ask for unification ,but don,t really want it they proved that in 2004 and they don,t want two different states .

well i,m afraid its one or the other .



musin

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 22:59

Musin,

Do you think the talks will get as far as a referendum,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:01

Surely what the GCs want more than anything is the Turkish Army back in Turkey.



Will they really leave until they have something of the deal that the TCs want.



Wasn't it Chairman Mao who said "power is in the barrel of a gun"



Sounds pretty one sided to me..........Turkish side!! Let them talk!!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:11

paul

personally i can,t see it



wyn

welcome back i hope you are not to depressed,the greeks have expressed they may settle for a reduction in troops ,but that was yesterday who knows what they will want tomorrow ,between you and me i think they are pretty happy as it stands leaving us out in the cold.

musin

long live the kktc

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:14

Wyn,

You are correct in what you say and the presence of the turkish army is indeed one of the biggest stumbling blocks in the talks.Feel sorry for Talat as in my opinion he has one hand tied behind his back as well as pleasing the turk cyps he also has to please Ankara as well,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:21

Musim,



If there is no solution reached, it is inconceivable that the world will allow the continued

isolation of the TRNC. The injustice of the last 34 years is Internationally recognised and

the International community seek an end to The Cyprus Problem.



This is negotiation. Keep your chin up, and let them talk!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:23

Musim,



If there is no solution reached, it is inconceivable that the world will allow the continued

isolation of the TRNC. The injustice of the last 34 years is Internationally recognised and

the International community seek an end to The Cyprus Problem.



This is negotiation. Keep your chin up, and let them talk!



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:30

the (coe) council of europe has also stated that the authorities of northern cyprus to confirm their commitment to reunifying cyprus ,and refrain from insisting on the existence of a "separate state" in the north of the island and among other issues to put on hold the sales ,and construction on ,greek cypriot properties in the northern part of cyprus.



how much more one sided can you get,how about the turkish lands in the south being built on ,oh and maybe they forgot who said no in 2004, please is this for real .

musin

long live the kktc

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:32

Wyn,

Save your energy mate no need to repeat yourself lol.What concessions are the greek cyps prepared to make.It takes two to tango.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:33

Newlad,



The Turkish Army is not a stumbling block. It is that ACE up Talats sleeve.

The International Community wish to see this Cyprus Problem settled.



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:37

Wyn,

The way i see it is if the troops do not withdraw or at least reduce then it will be end of talks and we will all be riding around n.c. on donkeys,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:41

wyn

i personally can,t see the trnc not being recognised too much longer even if the talks fail,why ,because if they do fail it will be down to the greeks just like the times before .

the greeks are far too rigid they expect the turks to bend ,but how far.



live and let live i say we are all from the same species at the end of the day.



musin

long live the kktc

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:44

Jock1,



You had better watch that Newlad. I think he is trying to muscle in on your and wackyjims Donkey Franchise.



Paul,



They may agree to reduce as a good will gesture, but they won't be going anywhere until there is a deal acceptable to the TCs on the table.



I would bet a week of my wifes pension on it!



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:47

Musin,

I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject.But why do you think that the north would be recognised if the talks failed.Out of sight out of mind springs to mind as it has done for the last 34 years,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 00:02

paul

the greeks have been saying this is the last chance for talks ,why ,because it is for them not for the turks ,they have kept us in isolation now for 34 years and time is running out for them ,its make your mind up time or others will make it up for you,they have already recieved this message indirectly ,but will they take it ,i do not think so ,why ,because they have this 18% minority etched in their brains ,i,m sorry but that boat sailed years ago .

forget about the out of sight out of mind thing ,the politics have changed .

musin

long live the kktc

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 00:04

Musim M,



The International Community backed The Annan Plan, that the Greeks backheeled. The TCs

acceptance will have been noted. The International Community want to see a settlement.

They will pressurise the GCs. It is not unreasonable that they are asking TCs to stop building on GCs land in The TRNC and are asking the TCs to stop insisting on seperate states. They are trying to effect an amicable settlement!!!.



The Greeks will be told imho that if a settlement is not reached, The International Community will recognise The TRNC and direct flights allowed.



THIS IS NOT WHAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WANTS. THEY WILL PRESSURISE BOTH PARTIES TO EFFECT AN AGREED AMICABLE SETTLEMENT THIS IS NEGOTIATION

DONT EXPECT EITHER PARTY JUST TO ROLL OVER.



Just my humble opinion, that is all. Just wait and see!! Have faith Musim!.



wyn

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 00:19

wyn



one of the points i am trying to point out is this ,the world knows the turkish are building on greek land ,but no one knows the greeks are building on turkish land ,lets put our cards on the table if you are serious about an outcome

stop the propaganda.

musin

ataturk


Joined: 09/09/2008
Posts: 712

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 01:13

Nice debates guys but the papers have been getting everybody excited with the possible outcome of a settlement. I personally dont think we are anywhere near to a solution. So lets chill out and not worry about the land issue or whether we gotta give back maras or Guzelyurt whether there will be a fedration or not, direct flights blah blah blah.



Nothing has been secretly agreed at all we are no nearer a solution than we are about getting out of this recession.



Our immediate concerns should be about getting that kocan and connecting the electric. The road to a solution is going nowhere fast.



The papers have to write about something to keep us interested. I try not to get too involved with the politics of this country it gives me a headache, as a cypriot we have been hoping for years for a solution when in reality the solution was already there, this is it it doesnt get any better than this our own government our own land our own people, what more could we really want.

robin hood


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 08:58

The comment that the greek cypriots have run out of time and hence, must reach a settlement is, in my opinion, way off the mark. The Republic of Cyprus doesn't need the north. It's a "nice to have" rather than a "must have".

The TRNC on the other hand is between a rock and a hard place. Politically, and finacially bankrupt (I'll not pressume to address the reasons for this state, but corruption and wastage, nepotism and incompetence spring to mind).

TRNC needs funding (in a big way). Be it from Turkey or the EU or from free trade. That is the factor crucial to ensuring the further existence of the state. All the rest is window dressing. A petty side show.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 09:47

I wonder if there is ANY CHANCE ??



"THE REPUBLIC OF CYPRUS MUST BE ABOLISHED"



President Mehmet Ali Talat has reminded of the fact that he reached an agreement earlier with the Leader of the Greek Cypriot Administration Demetris Christofias on the formation of a partnership state established by two equal constituent states in case of a solution in Cyprus.



President Mehmet Ali Talat has reminded of the fact that he reached an agreement earlier with the Leader of the Greek Cypriot Administration Demetris Christofias on the formation of a partnership state established by two equal constituent states in case of a solution in Cyprus.



He said this agreement stands on the table as signed.



Evaluating the Cyprus negotiations process to a Greek Cypriot newspaper, the President said the Republic of Cyprus governed by Greek Cypriots has violated the Turkish Cypriot rights and he made reference to the international isolation imposed on the Turkish Cypriot People in

regard.



Reminding that between years 1963-1974 the goal was to take possession of the island as a whole when carrying out attacks against Turkish Cypriots, President Talat said it is impossible for him to send messages on the celebration of the establishment of the 1960 Republic of Cyprus.



The Greek Cypriot newspaper quoted the President as saying ‘the current Republic of Cyprus must be abolished’.



Talat also reminded that the European Union envisages the membership of Cyprus as a whole under the structure of a partnership state and stressed that there is no way of accepting the maintenance of the current Republic of Cyprus.



The newspaper referred to the joint statement of two leaders read out by the UN Special Representative to Cyprus- Taye Brook Zerihoun following the Talat-Christofias meeting on the 23rd May regarding the 21st March Agreement, and quoted the statement as ‘the partnership will be established by a Turkish Cypriot and a Greek Cypriot constituent state of equal status on the basis of a federal government which will have single international identity’.



President Talat once again reminded that this agreement, as announced before, is standing on the table with its signatures.





http://www.brtk.cc/index.php/lang/en/cat/2/news/39874

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 11:48

robin hood



You are spot on. At the end of the day of the day the present setup cannot continue in the north.



Every method and excuse has been used to raise revenue,latest being taxation in advance! and now nothing is left bar re-unification, or Turkey starting to demand conditions and fiscal control. Remember folks Turkey has taxpayers as well.

Personally I hope it is the latter,as I think a bi-zonal arrangement will soon crumble if north is tied to south economically. Being better off financially does not mean better off overall,but for TC's looking at what is going on around themselves, it might look like the only way out is to vote yes,and let tomorrow look after itself.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 17:47

robin hood and girne 29,



i totally agree with you both.

things cannot go on as they are.

if there is no solution then i think the trnc will become a turkish state/ fully part of turkey.

both the gc's and the tc's want it all.

i have been asking friends on both sides if in a referendum would they vote yes, even if they were maybe only 80% happy with what was on offer.

both sides want to be 100% happy before voteing yes! neither side can have everything they want, it just can't work that way. both sides need to give a little slack then maybe a solution is possible.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 19:05

robin hood

the greeks don,t need the turks ,but the turks need the greeks and remind everyone what the greeks have contributed to the turks and exactly why the turks need the greeks.

secondly with the european community demanding a settlement. once again explain which of the two peoples least want a settlement and who in the past

refused a settlement.

girne 29

"every method and excuse has been used to raise revenue "is that a joke or a serious remark are you referring to the trnc or every goverment in the world ,

espeacially the uk,at this point in time taking into account both direct and in direct taxes the british tax payer pays 43% out of 100% of there earnings back .

the turks have been in limbo for 34 years ,time is running out for us ,i do not think so ,i believe the ball is in the greeks court.



musin

long live the kktc

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 20:04

msg 83: "...if there is no solution then i think the trnc will become a turkish state/ fully part of turkey."



How does that square with the UN resolutions which can't be taken back? IMO the TRNC will continue as an isolated and unrecognised backwater propped up by an increasingly resentful Turkish taxpayer. Either that or a few people will recognise a new state like they did with Kosova, another basket case that can't stand on its own feet without international aid, military and financial.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 20:35

Pikey,



What else would we expect from you?



Why can't we support the efforts of Mr Talat and Mr Christophias. The International Community wants a fair and amicable settlement. Just give them a chance!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 22:18

msg 86,



What are you talking about? My message relates to scenarios outlined in msg 83.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 20:43

Its the Efes you know, lol

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 21:29

paul

i suspect what wyn is refering to is the statement in msg 85 which allegeds that the turkish are a basket case



musin

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 21:36

Musin M,



Quite!



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 21:44

Musin,

Point taken."Basket cases",wash your mouth out pikey,

Paul.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 21:50

to the artiste latterly calling himself private pike:



as always you eruditely assemble your messages

and they very ably reflect your personal point of view:



in message 85 for example you refer to

"an unrecognised and isolated backwater"



there are many on this board who would almost share

your characteristically grotesque description of the trnc



only problem is you have also stated many times

that what you call re-unification is "close",

well it is theoretically just possible I suppose,

the trnc to willingly "re-unify" with a south

who are at the same time the primary culprit responsible

for isolating the trnc and still scheming to make it a backwater



but in the real world?



a takeover by the greek cypriots under another name is very unlikely,

unless your occupation of what you fatuously described as

"the moral high ground" squares the circle for you, as it were



I rest my case...over to you cherie



andre

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 22:40

Andre 514,



An what particular moment in history has Pikey chosen for todays argument?



As I said many months ago, there is no happiness to be had in debating with that man?



Only argument!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 01:57

newlad,



Msg 85 says: "Either that or a few people will recognise a new state like they did with Kosova, another basket case that can't stand on its own feet without international aid, military and financial."



So where exactly do I refer to the Turkish as basket cases? I worry about you buddy when you say things like "I bow to your superior knowledge" to Musin, a bloke who has spent the half-century of his life in London - and shows it with every post. Unless you were being ironic, of course.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 02:07

andre: "trnc to willingly "re-unify" with a south who are at the same time the primary culprit responsible for isolating the trnc and still scheming to make it a backwater."



Poetically constructed as your posts are, your take on Cypriot geopolitics appears to be heavily influenced by prejudice. What else can you say about someone who blames the Cyprus government for isolating the "TRNC", when in fact the north has been outlawed by several resolutions of the United Nations Security Council and is recognised by no country apart from its creator, Turkey?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 13:30

I must say that I have been surprised at Talats speech at the Council of Europe. It seems to me that he was taking a defensive posture in response the GC stance during negotiations. As the Strafor group (American strategic group) pointed out the GC's hold most of the aces. The GC's still have the backing of most of the International community which includes Russia and the US.



No countries have stated that they will recognise the TRNC should the talks break down and Britain has signed a moratorium to this effect.



The GC's are probably negotiating hard, unwilling to compromise on the big issues only willing to make concessions on very minor, less significant points.



I think Talat knows only too well that his people will get swallowed up by the GC majority unless he can create conditions of equality and fairness (which are probably unachievable, in any case). I give him credit for understanding this.



There is no doubt in my mind that humans have a design fault (obviously

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 13:32

part 2



it was useful in times gone by)



which is, that we define boundaries of who is in our group and who is outside our group. We refer to this as ‘us’ and ‘them’. Some people, have a very clear and transparent understanding of who is in their group and who isn’t. We call these people Nationalists because they clearly know who the ‘them’ is and they often denounce and criticise the ‘them’.



Most people live in neutral, only dimly aware of what their ‘them’ and ‘us’ is. They don’t know which group they belong to until the shit hits the fan. I think it is interesting to see what is happening to the European Union right now. People in Europe have tried to create a larger ‘them’ which is the European union. People cannot fully experience this larger ‘them’ without an expanded consciousness. We go relatively small rather than big to define our sense of ‘we’.



Now that the shit is hitting the fan Europe is not in agreement or

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 13:33

part 3



concordance. How could it ever be, because our sense of ‘we’ is often defined by our nationalistic boundaries. People think themselves as a Brit or a Swede or a German first and foremost not as a European. In times of survival, our identity grows small. It is each country, each smaller unit is for itself, looking after it’s own interest.



There is a lesson here for Cyprus which Talat I think understands. When the shit hits the fan, it is only Turkey that will support him and his people. The GC’s have no history of supporting the TC’s only one of discrimination.

It is also to be remembered that in good times the majority slowly turns the screw on the minority. At times this turning is imperceptible to the eye, not unless you run it in macro and in slow motion.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 13:34

this is damn annoying, the limitation on charachters, one now has when posting.



I find it hard to post anything with less than 1000 charachters

coolkid


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 64

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 19:58

this situation of isolation hasgone on too long and perhaps the stakes need supercharging by discussions in parall for the TRNC to become a state of Turkey it may make the Greeks take note and the EU and USA would prefer a united Cyprus to further assist Turkey to become a member of the EU.It needs sorting out over the next two years otherwise Turkey will not start to enter theEU and it would be status quo

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 21:09

pikey msg 94

i am sorry about that ,i don,t know what paul was thinking .

you are of course the man in the know when it comes to cyprus affairs.

are you feeling more secure now son.



long live the kktc

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 13:13

Just to open up a totally new can of worms. Why does nobody look at what history has to tell us? Look at the Crete situation. Any parallels? Any Lassons to be learned? Any Turks left?

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 13:51

Hi Robin Hood



I am absolutely fascinated by the question of 'does history repeat itself?' I think it does, but often in slightly dissimilar ways depending on ones ability to grow and learn from the past. No learning means that the past will likely repeat itself.



If you look at the current financial meltdown, many people have compared it to the great depression of 1929, but it is not exactly the same as then. Plus, both the governors of the banks in the US and UK have studied the conditions which created the great depression. Following the great depression there was a steep rise in fascism. Again right now fascism is rising in Europe but not on the scale of the 30's. It will be interesting to see if the current situation will escalate to mirror that of the 30's. I think a couple of conditions would have to be added for that to happen, but it could happen. Plus we are in unchartered waters, which means, that there will be unintended consequences which we have no way of predicting.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 13:53

Part 2



In many ways the Cyprus saga is just a smaller version of the war between Greece and Turkey back in the 20's. The parallels are striking. History can repeat itself.



I do absolutely think that the GC’s will dominate the TC’s in the event of a reunification, but in more subtle ways than those expressed in the past (notably Crete). Not unless legislation is tough and imposed (which will create it’s own issues) or if the GC’s have expanded their meaning making ability (in this context the ability to move from Nationalistic ways of thinking to a more expanded and inclusive mindset, which I do see evidence of but not in sufficient enough quantities for my liking).

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 15:43

In response to ilovecyprus.

Food for thought indeed. The talks talk recioncilliation, but the "mindset" is anything else but. Or am I way off kilter. The propaganda has to stop. The fuelling of hatred with past wrongs doesn't bring people back from the grave. (might even put a few more there). If the chance to look forward is missed then we all lose.

ps I love cyprus too.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 16:08

It's all about mindset Robin Hood



I spotted this quote in the paper today. The context was the economy but it could just as well relate to cyprus



"Trust is essential for a boom. When people are cautious, questioning, misanthropic, suspicious or mean, they are immune to speculative enthusiasms"

John Kenneth Galbraith - Economist

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 19:38

ilovecyprus

Your messages spot on.

and

"Not unless legislation is tough and imposed (which will create it’s own issues)"



Who would would oversee and impose the legistration,the EU has said its for the UN to oversee, so that would be ineffective. The Greek ,Turkish,British overseeing the situation in the past ,proved useless.



Just read an article in Famagusta Gazette,about visitors to the north and every mention of the north ,airport in the north,ports in the north and towns in the north ,was preceeded with "illegal" or" occupied". Just looked like a rather childish way of making a point by repeating a mantra and trying inflame rather than inform.



Keryneia and Gastria? When they use these terms ,they are telling the present inhabitants ,and those in the south what is expected in the future.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 20:21

"Tyranny flourishes where good men turn their back on the suffering of others"

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 21:33

guys

take some time ,study the subject ( t/c and g/c cypriots ) north and south and if you have studied it correctly you will find that unification will not occur simply because the greeks do not want it ,so why not live and let live ,no chance ,anomosity runs deep in the veins of most ,not all greeks ,and has imo

become worst as the years pass by.

so what do they want ,80% of cyprus or nothing ,thats what they thrive for and while they wait for this they are doing their best to make the lives of all turkish cypriots as unbearable as possible ,taking away their human rights,they will not get 80% so there it stops ,hence the 34 years ,if these two leaders come up with a solution i will call them the miracle makers.

good luck to them ,as for the t/cs we carry on regardless till the rest of the world wakes up and takes notice of our plight and rights the wrongs.



musin

long live the kktc

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 21:53

Musin,

Why should the greeks want it they wouldnt gain anything fom unification.But dont you think that Turkey would be commiting political suicide if they surrendere d Cyprus as it is to strategically placed and challenges their defence for southern Turkey,

Paul.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 22:29

paul

this is just the point i am making the greeks keep saying they want unification

but this is not true ,after all they have refused it once already.

why not tell the whole world what they really want out of this situation or maybe they know that this is not possible.



turkey will never give up cyprus,thats not an option and the greeks know this ,its not simple paul ,hence the 34 years.



musin

long live the kktc

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 23:09

msge 107



Hi girne 29



The only people that could oversee such legislation would be the Cypriots themselves. Talat would have to get a watertight agreement from the GC's that discrminination in any shape or size would be punished. It's what happens in the UK. The law ensures any racial tension/hatred is nipped in the bud. Minorities are given protection.



These minority laws create issues though, because they create tension and ultimately resentment in the majority, as these laws often get taken too far and pushed to their extremes. For example, in the UK an English white male with comparable qualifications to other candidates would be excluded from employment if the other candidates are from an ethnic minority background or were a British White female.



Ultimately the GC's see themselves as the Lord and master of the island. I know the GC's see the Turks as the evil wrongdoers, but I have not seen much evidence to suggest they see the TC's as their equals. Not allowing the

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 23:11

Part 2



TC’s to participate in Sporting events let alone world affairs is not the way you treat someone you care for and respect.



Hi Musin



You are likely on the money mate. I like your analogy on the other post. Roots have been planted deep, very deep indeed. They are likely to far embedded in to the soil to be removed.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 01:57

surely we are going round in ever diminishing circles and...

(I shall not elaborate)



the two sides are still separated by a huge gulf,

whatever the failings of the "cyprus star",

and there can only be an agreed settlement

if the south buriesthe hatchet

and adopts a compromise plan similar to anan 2004

but this time I think the tc's may not risk a "yes" vote



an even more remote possibility

is some sort of "fire sale" where the north

is close to disintegration and abandoned by its turkish guarantor

maybe, but I cannot visualise this happening whatever



after all, in a wartime poster, this phrase appeared:

"better to eat humble pie with churchill, than..."

of course churchill assumed he could "sort out" the turks in 1915

but very much like the enosis bid of 1974, the roof fell in on him too



my apologies for straying from the immediately factual

and well done the recorders, reporters and clipping collectors



andre

mitsi


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 345

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 09:09

totally agree. No-one seems to think about the never ending streams of rules, regulations and bureaucracy that come with the "Brussels" package. There are just as many people in UK wanting out of EU as there are pro EU. Businesses going to the wall due to "Red Tape" cos they cannot keep up. Litigation is rife and following America's obsession with Sueing for everything. How on earth will the TRNC cope with "Health and Safety regs?" Turkey is strong enough to manage without EU and shouln't even bother. Let's go with them!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 12:27

newlad: "But dont you think that Turkey would be commiting political suicide if they surrendere d Cyprus as it is to strategically placed and challenges their defence for southern Turkey?"



Which threats would Turkey face from the south?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 12:36

where i see this time being different is that in the event of a solution both sides would become part of europe.

this would bring about a major influx of outside nationalities to cyprus. this has happened in the south. it would also then happen in the north.

hence it wouldn't just be about gc's and tc's anymore.

cyprus would be multicultural and have a much better balance, with eu rules and values.

cyprus could then go forward as one country.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:03

blimey firestarter, the GC's will love that. Getting rid of 100,000 Turkish settlers and before you know it they are replaced by a 100,000 other pestilent Europeans



I take your point though firestater

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 20:26

Mitsi,

Maybe it would be more profitable for Turkey to join the arabic league of countries then it would for them to join the eu,

Paul.

ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 20:52

Just finished reading "A troubled island" by Andrew Borowiec.

A very interesting read.

A couple of things leap out of the pages which are stunning in their absolute simplicity. A) where are the Cypriots*? B) Why do TC's and GC's blame each other for something that is simply not their fault.



*CYPRIOTS = People who are proud of THEIR nation and culture. Not proud to be part of Greece or part of Turkey. Where are they? Does the EU really need two Greeces in it? Let alone one Turkey? But how about a Cyprus?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 21:41

Robin Hood: "Why do TC's and GC's blame each other for something that is simply not their fault."



To a degree. Some of them still voted in the very worst of leaders in the past.



"*CYPRIOTS = People who are proud of THEIR nation and culture. Not proud to be part of Greece or part of Turkey. Where are they?"



Heavily outnumbered by Turkish immigrants in the north, that's for sure. And many more scattered across the globe.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 23:42

Has there been any Greek immigrants in the south, or has the number of GC's remained static since the 60's apart from thro birth/death.?

Are the children of immigrants who are born in Cyprus ,North and South, citizens by birth and therefore not included in number of settlers?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
12/10/2008 11:31

ilovecyprus re post 118



what i don't understand is, who is a turkish settler?

many turkish people lived in cyprus long before 1974.

i have friends/family who were born here, before 1974 but are still turkish passport holders,and consider themselves turkish.

if i ask my cypriot friends they consider them as turkish.

unless you can say you are 5 generation cypriot, you are not cypriot in their eyes.

most of the so called turkish settlers from recent years are actually kurdish.

so they technically are kurdish settlers not turkish!



so who is it they will be sending home in the event of a solution?

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
12/10/2008 22:13

Paul

I can't see Turkey wanting to join the Arabic League from what I have

heard & seen. There is no love lost between them historically, and

since Ataturk told Turks to look to the West, the more modern seem to

want to do that. They will survive and develop whether they enter E.U or not

(in my humble opinion)

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
12/10/2008 22:31

phylray



you are quite right turkey will look towards the west ,you are of course also correct about the eu,they and other countries have seen flaws appearing ,and yes turkey will survive and develop regardless of what some people think or say.



regards

musin

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/10/2008 22:53

Thanks guys just a thought.They are situated in a good spot for either.Then theres the oil and of course that precious commodity water,

Paul.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
06/11/2008 23:33

Not a lot to report but the latest fron the TRNC office in London is....

http://www.e-kktc.com/index.php?tpl=news_trnc&id=409&lan=en

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/11/2008 20:04

update

leaders are expected to discuss the property issue after they close the administration and share of power isssues.

the turkish leader mehmet ali talat stated after the meeting,that it went well,it goes well,while demetris christofias stated i am fine.

the next meeting is on the 11th of november ,where cameras and videos will be allowed in to take footage and the next one on the 14th of november.

so guys maybe then you will all have some clearer idea of a possible outcome or maybe not .



musin

long live the kktc

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
17/11/2008 23:24

update



sorry people not good news ,doesn,t look good for any outcome.



musin

long live the kktc

jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 00:05

hey,sometimes no news is good news.

andre 514


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 1163

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 00:12

please see my posting at 18.57 "cyprus talks latest online"



andre

Amber


Joined: 26/09/2008
Posts: 561

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 11:37

Musin M



Mesage 129 - why do you say not good news? What IS the news??



Thanks

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
18/11/2008 20:38

amber

http://www.observercyprus.com



"early warning about."



click on and you read the updates.



musin