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A claim of right, made in good faith. TRNC Land and Property.

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wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 19:14

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Message 1 of 89 in Discussion

Hi all,



For the avoidance of doubt. When I bought my villa in The TRNC, I believed that I had a claim of right, made in good faith.



I accepted the assurrances of my Advocate (lawyer) the estate agents and The TRNC Government, that what I was buying was exchange land.



In order for it to be theft, it would have to be proven, that I was NOT acting in good faith.



Therefore it cannot be theft!



Perhaps if people who bought, NOT in good faith, believing the land to be stolen, and not exchanged, would care to identify themselves, the matter could be cleared up, once and for all. Such accusations are offensive and downright wrong, to people who acted in good faith.



wyn



eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 22:18

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Message 2 of 89 in Discussion

Surely if there is to be a claim of theft of land/property then the guilty [if proven] party should be the developers who purchased the land/property in the first place. Buyers buy in good faith after doing all that is required of them legally.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 23:01

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Message 3 of 89 in Discussion

Who will decide what is/was legal? Would a new all Cyprus government anxious not to upset TC & GC alike, be that bothered about non Cypriots?



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 23:02

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Message 4 of 89 in Discussion

eager

where has the claim of theft come from ,land issues will go down the compensation route ,cick on too my post regarding greek cypriot applications to the north commission and read it this process has already started.



musin



spook


Joined: 23/01/2008
Posts: 244

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 23:35

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Message 5 of 89 in Discussion

Should not any compensation be paid by person/persons who "sold" the land which was "gifted" to them for whatever reason,they have had the profit either in cash or by gift ie i have the land - you develop it - build 10 houses 8 for you 2 for me which i can sell/rent or live in.



Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 23:39

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Message 6 of 89 in Discussion

I stole nothing, I bought and still act in good faith.



eager


Joined: 23/02/2007
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Message Posted:
07/09/2008 23:39

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Message 7 of 89 in Discussion

Musin m... was replying to wynyardmans comments and his worries that he could possibly be accused of theft of land.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/09/2008 23:51

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Message 8 of 89 in Discussion

eager,



I have no fear that I could be guilty of theft, or perhaps even receiving stolen land.



What I wished to make perfectly clear, is that in buying my villa, built on exchange land, I



acted in the utmost good faith.



wyn



McSteviet



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1089

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 00:08

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Message 9 of 89 in Discussion

Wyn



and don't we all?



I'm with you all the way.



MC



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 00:13

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Message 10 of 89 in Discussion

guys

read my msg 4 and click on







musin



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 00:19

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Message 11 of 89 in Discussion

MusinM,



I have and noted your point with which I wholly agree.



wyn



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 02:13

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Message 12 of 89 in Discussion

wynyardman: "For the avoidance of doubt. When I bought my villa in The TRNC, I believed that I had a claim of right, made in good faith."



What's that supposed to mean? Do you think those are valid points of law? Tell it to the civil courts when your time comes.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 07:34

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Message 13 of 89 in Discussion

wyn, don't take all of this so seriously and personally.

please tell me what was your land exchanged with?

the gc's didn't agree to exchange anything.

i think the test case will be the orams e.u court conclusion at the end of the month. there was one other case i remember, which was a woman who has the turkish army on her land. the e.u court ruled that it was her land and ordered turkey to compensate. but i don't think they ever have!

i will say that none of my tc friends would buy exchange land.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 09:50

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Message 14 of 89 in Discussion

firestarter,



I and other people who bought exchange land are being accused on this board on an almost daily basis, of theft of land and having stolen property without any thought or consideration, for the previous owners.



THIS IS NOT SO. WE WERE TOLD BY THE GOVERNMENT AND OFFICERS RESPONSIBLE THAT THE LAND WE BOUGHT HAD BEEN EXCHANGED FOR LAND IN THE SOUTH.



I bought in good faith. My contract states that the developer is the legal owner.Under International law, therefore I cannot be guilty of THEFT. THE POSTER SHOULD DESIST.



ACCUSATIONS OF THEFT ON A PUBLIC FORUM IS UNACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOUR. IT IS

REPEATED BECAUSE IT CAUSES TROUBLE, AND HAS NO BASIS IN LAW.



All people who have bought EXCHANGE LAND should be so incensed!



wyn



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 10:26

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Message 15 of 89 in Discussion

i hear what you are saying wyn. but its not how the gc's see it. they have had their land taken from them. i think that there was only one gc who legally exchanged his land in the north with land in the south. my problem is that how can you trust this goverment to look after your interests with your exchange land? if they don't support your exchange land situation how are you going to get compensation from them? how can you get a legal case for ownership from an illegal goverment? mr t was quoted as saying that the property issues would be sorted out under international law. this is just one big mess as this will not be possible, otherwise all exchange land would be returned or compensated to the gc owner. they are broke so who will be paying the compensation? i think that if a solution happens the trnc will become part of europe. you as an e.u citizen should have some kind of protection because of that. i personally would not touch exchange land but everyone to their own. i don't hold it against anyone.that is their risk and their choice.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 10:46

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Message 16 of 89 in Discussion

thats if you can find him!



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:02

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Message 17 of 89 in Discussion

firestarted/cypgab,



Under British law I could not be found guilty of theft. It is that I stand accused of, on a



public forum.



The definition of theft, that would have to be proven in a court of law,



"A person steals, without the consent of the owner, fraudulently, and without a claim of



right, MADE IN GOOD FAITH, takes, and carries away any article capable of being stolen"





It follows that the worst I could be accused of is being in posession of stolen goods.



This DOES NOT MAKE ME A THIEF.



I did not ask to become embroiled in the sordid politics that is Northern Cyprus. I bought in



good faith,under a contract endorsed by the Land Registry, drawn by a lawyer, from a



builder, who claimed (in that contract) that he was the legitimate owner, and had the right



to sell me that plot of Land.



No one would like to be accused of being a thieif on a public forum of over 2500 members



when such accusation, is without foundation in law. That was the purpose of this posting,



also to draw it to the attention of other members, who also stand so accused.



I would also like to point out in law,a person is innocent, until proven guilty in a LEGITIMATE



court of law!



wyn



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:12

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Message 18 of 89 in Discussion

wyn, in the uk if you buy stolen goods, the goods are taken from you and returned to the original owner.

the thief then is prosecuted.

don't worry handeling stolen goods only carrys a small fine and possibly some community service. for your first offence. lol.

there is a old english law where by you can buy stolen goods and the authorities cannnot do anything about it. i will research it and let you know.

as i remember if you buy goods from an establish old english market on a certian day, the stolen goods thing doesn't apply.was told this by an auctioner friend at a auction house.



littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:22

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Message 19 of 89 in Discussion

My take on this, is



a fraud has been possibly commited by the builder and or the lawyer, wyn as the innocent victim would not have to return the said property as I believe the property was built post 1974 and thus did not have an owner.



Now it would seem that there are no land or legal experts participating in this thread so it would be a nice time to apologise and withdraw the claim that the good wynyard man is a thief.



Filure to do so would be ( in my opinion) be rather petty silly an downright rude.



Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:27

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Message 20 of 89 in Discussion

There is just one small point that everyone seems to miss regarding "exchange land". All the posters are looking at it from the point of view of primarily of UK citizens who have bought properties built on exchanged land and their status in the event of a settlement.



What about the TC's who have resided on exchanged land since 1974 and have not sold it on to builders for development. What is going to happen to them in the event of a settlement? What proportion of exchanged land has actually been sold to non TC's, presumeably the majority of it is still held by TC's? Its not just the Brits who are in this scenario.



Lem



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:32

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Message 21 of 89 in Discussion

Firestarter,



Under your argument, Who is the thief. The Government, The builder?



What criminal offence could I legitimatley be accused of?.........Nothing?



My gripe is, I am being accused on a public forum of 2500+ of being a theif.



It is being repeated on an almost daily basis.I believe it may be actionable!



wyn



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:35

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Message 22 of 89 in Discussion

nige, the land pre 1974 did have an owner. a greek cypriot one, probably. all wyn need to do is take a copy of his deed to the land office in the roc and say he is looking at buying this land.thus he has commited no crime. they will tell him who is the registered owner. before 1974 lots of the land in cyprus was not registered to anyone.

go and see if anyone has put claim to the land his house is built on.

your also too serious nige, wyn is not a theif, he is just handeling stolen goods, allowed ,condoned and encouraged by the trnc goverment. that he has admitted. its not personal as i said. its wyns choice. i don't think wyn is some big criminal, far from it.



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:37

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Message 23 of 89 in Discussion

Terrific post Nige



Good posting too lem. Last week I was talking to a tc owner of a major hotel in the TRNC. He said that there were only large three hotels on the whole of the island that were built on TC land. Two he mentioned were Celebrity and LA Hotel and I forget the third.

His own hotel is on GC land. It's a sizeable plot. Hes understanding of exchange land really surprised me. It differed from mine.

He expects to receive a very very substantial sum of money should he be asked to give up his piece of land.



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:39

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Message 24 of 89 in Discussion

my grammer is getting worse as I get older



should have said 'three large hotels'



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:47

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Message 25 of 89 in Discussion

Lem,



Of course your point of TCs living on exchange land is valid.



It is up to them to defend their own corner, but my point is it is ME that is being accused of theft. THAT IS WHAT I OBJECT TO!



wyn



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 11:50

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Message 26 of 89 in Discussion

we have uk friends susanne that are in the same situation as you. he has lots of land in esentepe. problem is the trnc system wont recognise your title deeds as i understand at the moment. we took advice because we were interested in buying some of his land. as the system is now, he cannot sell it to us. i'm sure the european court recognises it thought as there recently was a case they approved but the gc gov put a spanner in the works as i understand.



wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:24

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Message 27 of 89 in Discussion

Susanne



I bought my resale villa which is built on exchange land with my eyes wide open. I weighed up the risks not with any TRNC lawyers but my own UK lawyers and they like everyone else that seriously researches property purchases in the TRNC advised me to proceed with real caution but felt on balance that the benefits of a much cheaper property( in comparison to say similar villas in Spain at the time) outweighed the "risks".



The conclusion was that the worst that could ever happen is that my villa or should I say the land it stands on is reclaimed..... for a whole host of reasons my opinion to that was low risk. The most likely outcome on which I based my judgement to buy was the possible compensation payable to a previous GC owner, this is something I budgeted for and have always been happy to do ..in fact the sooner the better as it will once and for all clear up all the title issues which are a major part of the problems surrounding any possible re-unification in Cyprus and secures my investment in this beautiful part of the world.



Anyone who accuses another member on this BB of theft because they have bought property in TRNC is talking crap and should be more careful in their accusations!!!



Jim



Therefore before diving in I considered



wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:35

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Message 28 of 89 in Discussion

And nor can you!!!



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:37

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Message 29 of 89 in Discussion

Thank you all for your comments.



I think we have established that I am not a thief!



I think we have established that under International law the land is currently greek.



Can someone therefore please tell me under what authority can my builder claim it is



his land to sell. Presumably he paid someone for it. WHO IS THE THIEF? AND UNDER



WHOSE AUTHORITY? CONFUSED!!!!!!!!!



wyn



wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:38

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Message 30 of 89 in Discussion

But its not!!



johnboy


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 170

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:40

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Message 31 of 89 in Discussion

Wyn,



Whilst i'm in the same boat as you.....



If you buy a stolen car, in good faith, the rightful owner can still demand it back, regardless if you didn't know and paid a fair market price for it.



Food for thought !



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:43

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Message 32 of 89 in Discussion

wackyjim,



An excellent posting!



Our circumstances were somewhat different. We were told our land had been exchanged.



We now know differently. I am still trying to find an answer to the question I pose under



message 35.



wyn



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:50

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Message 33 of 89 in Discussion

Suzanne,



Naive? I paid my advocate 1000 up front, and presumably part of his remit was to check the legal validity to the land title.



Mr Munir Akil used to practive Law as a barrister of law in the UK. He told me that TRNC law, was based on British Law.



wyn



Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:55

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Message 34 of 89 in Discussion

Wyn



You and all others in your situation have bought legally from the people who live under the only responsible government in North Cyprus, which is KKTC.

Greeks have no authority or any say until a final agreement is reached and even then the land problems can only be solved by some compensation and some adjustments.

Too many years have made it impossible for anyone to go back and claim what they owned befor the conflicts.

Rest assured you have nothing to worry about.



It will probably be the European Union who probably pays most of the compensation to both parties, as they jave taken on a split island with problems into the Union.

Under Lozan agreements Cyprus could not have entered any union or organisation that the two guarantor countries (Greece and Turkey) were not part of. This has been disregarded when they unlawfully accepted only South Cyprus into EU.

EU have been trying to please (the spoilt child of EU now) the Greeks in the south and put themselves into a catch 22 situation.

So they will have to clear up this mess now.



Biker



Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 12:57

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Message 35 of 89 in Discussion

Who said, "possession is nine tenths of the law!"



The concept that a purchaser, for value and in good faith, can take

clear title to even stolen property can actually be correct. This

often occurs when the person who transfers the goods has what is

called "voidable title" - such as a pawn broker who has taken lawful

possession of goods subject to their being reclaimed by the owner.

Where goods are entrusted to the possession of a merchant who deals in

goods of that type, and those goods are subsequently sold for value to

a third party who is acting in good faith and without notice of the

prior claim, the third party will ordinarily take full title to the

goods. (See, e.g., Section 2-403 of the Uniform Commercial Code.)



Adverse possession is an interesting area of law, but it involves a

lot more than mere possession. Permissive possession, for example,

cannot support a claim of adverse possession. Typically, for adverse

possession to apply, the possession must be actual, open, notorious,

hostile, under cover of title or claim of right, and continuous for

the statutory period. (Each of those elements has a meaning which may

differ from its standard dictionary definition; you can find more

explanation of adverse possession of land and chattels if you run some

Google searches.)



Source: http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=496059



Lem



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:01

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Message 36 of 89 in Discussion

Wyn - you are not a thief. You were merely duped by a system that only sees signs in front of their eyes.



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:03

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Message 37 of 89 in Discussion

for pity sake if wyn is a thief , then i'm a monkey's uncle , why does everthing have to turn so nasty when we are debating, we all made choices and if and when the time ever comes , then we will make choices again , we trusted the people ie builders , lawyers ect now thats's the real crime here { who would have thought that a lawyer would mispresent such important issues regarding a house sale } but then its a sad life if a person has to go through life not being able to trust , chin up wyn you've done no wrong knowingly here ,oh and wyn , do what you have to do action wise !!

in support , pat



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:05

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Message 38 of 89 in Discussion

simbas,



You are right. Large Gin and Tonic Garcon!



wyn



Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:09

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Message 39 of 89 in Discussion

Could i ask who thinks that ?



Solicitors/advovacte should be seriously taken to task over all of this ?



And should they be allowed to continue to write up useless contracts ?



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:36

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Message 40 of 89 in Discussion

hi pipie , the answer to that is surely , yes and no

regards , simbas



dobbo



Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 72

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:38

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Message 41 of 89 in Discussion

What about the Turkish Cypriot who lost his land in the south and been given land in the north, what was he supposed to do wait for 40 years for a settlement and put his life on hold indefinitely. Morally I have no problem with exchange land as I see it as helping the Turkish Cypriots move on with there lives as they are isolated enough and have had the thin edge of the wedge for long enough. I actually believe by investing in the north has helped to bring the Greek Cypriots to the settlement talks.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 13:57

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Message 42 of 89 in Discussion

Under UK criminal law land cannot be stolen. It is an immovable object. The definition of theft (S1 Theft Act 1968) 'A person steals who dishonestly appropriates property, belonging to another, with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.'

As said land is not property and no one is suggesting a buyer has acted dishonestly.



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 14:49

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Message 43 of 89 in Discussion

This is a theme that has been going around in circles for the 4 years I have been on the TRNC BB's. Each time it reappears the same points are raised; people get uptight quoting any laws that may seem appropriate to what purpose.



Until an international agreement is reached to decide on the possible rights and wrongs we should just continue with our lives.



We came here 4 years ago knowing what the potentials were before buying, the info was available right across the internet from people who were already discussing the potential pit falls. To rely on any solicitor either here or the UK to give 100% factual information is at best naive. In a country that has even now only an infant legal system, believing what they say is crazy. It is unfortunate that many of us still fell into the trap of believing some things.



To me, there is no thing as exchange land. Any that genuinely can be said to have been exchanged by due process is very rare. The only way to find any true facts about land is at the land registry in South Nicosia and I challenge anyone to say they went or asked there solicitor to go to check out the plans.



The government of TRNC has drawn up its own plans but as is rightly said above, this is still an illegal state and until someone says otherwise anything the government does has no rights in International Law.



That is my two pennorth, I know some will say what a load of...... but is MY OPINION.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:00

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Message 44 of 89 in Discussion

Cyprusishome,



Point noted, but if you are right has no one thought to tell Estate Agents and Advocates that they are acting illegally, and obtaining money by false pretenses?



Thats my opinion, thats all.



wyn



simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:06

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Message 45 of 89 in Discussion

advocates swear some kind of oath , don't they ??



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
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Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:15

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Message 46 of 89 in Discussion

simbas,



Make me swear! (sorry to be flippant) Do they have to carry Professional Indemnity Insurance



as the UK. Are their legal practices covered by any form of Limited Liability?



ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:18

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Message 47 of 89 in Discussion

simbas



Only if they don't get their fees! ;-(



davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:29

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Message 48 of 89 in Discussion

Hi all,



We have all been mislead in different and more ways than I care to imagine!!



For one- trnc saying its based on uk law I seriously doubt as the most important law regarding sellers and buyers of property in the uk is that " LAWYERS CANNOT REPRESENT BOTH THE SELLER AND BUYER IN THE SAME PROPERTY TRANSACTION".

iF THEY ARE CAUGHT IT IS ILLEGAL PRACTICE AND THEY WILL BE STRUCK OFF!!



Its these people who should be taken to court and sued for compensation and be ordered to return the funds they have obtained from us by giving us FALSE AND MISLEADING INFORMATION!!



This is not the case in NC as lawyers represent everyone within the same transactions- developers, selleers, buyers, agents etc!!



When you have lawyers, developers and agents and most importantly the government telling you that you are safe to buy- then you do tend to believe it to a certain extent!!



wyn you are not a thief - so dont worry!!



Many have done research and bought in good faith also so there are many others out there in the same position as ourselves!!



Take care d xxx



ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:38

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Message 49 of 89 in Discussion

I nearly bought a property in S Cyprus about 10 years ago.



Neither my UK or SC solicitors ever mentioned the possibility that I might be buying land that was owned by an absentee (?) Turkish Cypriot and may end up either losing the property or having to pay compensation.



I bet no SC purchaser has ever checked in N Nicosia or Ankara to do their 'due diligence' as to the title.





It works both ways, which is why I get annoyed by the posters who bleat on about 'due diligence' by checking your NC purchase in S Nicosia.





All these critics of NC buyers are obviously only wise in hindsight,...



that's an easy way to appear 'informed'.



If you are living in your lovely villa in Coral Bay near Paphos,... do you know if your land was stolen from a Turkish Cypriot??



I bet you don't!





rob



Molly


Joined: 30/08/2008
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 15:38

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Message 50 of 89 in Discussion

Forget the builders, agents etc. The TRNC government were responsible for the issue of exchange land title deeds and they have repeatedly assured foreign purchasers of the validity of all title deeds. Everyone is aware of the land and population exchange - the outcome, the Greeks prospered the Turkish didn't.



Any compensation to be paid should be the responsibility of the government (i.e. Turkey - the real decision makers!) in the event of any settlement. It would be totally impractical to deal with each case on an individual basis - an administrative and totally impractical scenario.



frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 16:44

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Message 51 of 89 in Discussion

I don't know why you are all worrying. Wyn, you were obviously misled, which is a serious issue. But if you have Esdeger (equivalence) land, then you are in a very strong position when it comes to any (pigs might fly) settlement. Susanne is doing what Markymark used to do when he was alive - create mischief and worry, and try to deter people from purchasing here. Please do not take her too seriously, she lives in the South, and will therefore see things from their point of view. She's not at fault, just a victim of geography!



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 17:57

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Message 52 of 89 in Discussion

frontal,



How do you expect someone to regard outsiders who intentionally occupy property seized from their family at the point of a Turkish bayonet? And remember my dinner party analogy. How would your friends back home react if you told them you had bought a nice holiday home - built on land whose owner was forced to live in a Red Cross tent?



The self-pity which has now replaced the previous jovial buffoonery of the thread originator speaks volumes. The penny seems to be dropping.



JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 18:49

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Message 53 of 89 in Discussion

PtePike, don't forget that many Turkish Cypriots living in their properties in the South were displaced too and many didn't even have the luxury of a Red Cross tent when they first arrived arrived in the North.



JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 18:51

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Message 54 of 89 in Discussion

Pte Pike, oops I didn't mean to say that they arrived twice!!



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 18:57

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Message 55 of 89 in Discussion

PP,



Remind me........What was the reason that you were banned from other boards(when they found out which names you were posting under?)



The penny (or YTL in this case, dropped long ago) With good faith you have to give people a chance before condemning them!



wyn



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 20:12

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Message 56 of 89 in Discussion

JimmyG,



There were refugees (should really call them displaced persons) on both sides going back to 1963-64. And not everyone even got a tent. I know a bit about what went on as I'm on the register of British delegates to the International Red Cross/Red Crescent.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 20:32

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Message 57 of 89 in Discussion

Wyn,



You seem to think it's some big deal to get banned from TRNC forums run on the personal whim of its "moderators" and not the members. But it IS a big deal when these BBs get shut down by MSN after complaints about hateful and racist abuse. It's also a big deal when one of the Brits running a forum is a criminal and fraudster. You can tell a man by the company he keeps, and you seem to feel at home with all that.



I realise you're an older guy but get with it, daddy-oh. Some people these days have more than one e-mail address and more than one nickname. Shocking, isn't it? But someone who says:



"Naive? I paid my advocate 1000 up front, and presumably part of his remit was to check the legal validity to the land title."



and



"Mr Munir Akil used to practive Law as a barrister of law in the UK. He told me that TRNC law, was based on British Law."



is not only laughable but somewhat sad. You will get what's coming to you at the end of the day. Then you can come back to me and we'll see how you feel about me and my views.



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 20:39

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Message 58 of 89 in Discussion

mr cooper aka my friend wyn

firstly you have bought in the kktc ,a house that was built by a kktc company on land that the kktc tells you belongs to the kktc ,you have paper work that proves this

according to kktc laws ,not anyone elses laws just kktc laws .stolen land is what the greeks say ,but they have no say in the kktc ,stolen land is in greek, exchanged land is in turkish , and you have a property where" in the kktc ,"so you have to refer to the turkish word as exchanged .exchanged for land stolen by the greeks from the turkish .you have nothing to fear listen to no one ,just

greek propoganda.



kind regards

musin

long live the kktc



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 20:40

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Message 59 of 89 in Discussion

mr cooper aka my friend wyn

firstly you have bought in the kktc ,a house that was built by a kktc company on land that the kktc tells you belongs to the kktc ,you have paper work that proves this

according to kktc laws ,not anyone elses laws just kktc laws .stolen land is what the greeks say ,but they have no say in the kktc ,stolen land is in greek, exchanged land is in turkish , and you have a property where" in the kktc ,"so you have to refer to the turkish word as exchanged .exchanged for land stolen by the greeks from the turkish .you have nothing to fear listen to no one ,just

greek propoganda.



kind regards

musin

long live the kktc



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 21:04

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Message 60 of 89 in Discussion

susanne



why don,t you post on things you know about and stop misleading people.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 21:06

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Message 61 of 89 in Discussion

Musim M,



I appreciate you of all people act and speak in good faith. It is evident from your postings.



It is also painfully obvious that without the Turkish intervention many many more lives would have been lost.



I believe that the International Community recognise the injustice, and they are now



determined that the injustice that has been allowed since 1974, needs to be put right.



I believe Mr Christophias and Mr Talat, are men of good faith, and both seek a fair and



amicable settlement.



Much of what has happenned in The TRNC was by nescessity,the people had to survive.



Now is the time for matters to be put right, and I personally have little doubt that they will



be.



My major concern is the prophets of doom and the troublemakers, who like vampires feed



on peoples genuine concerns and anxieties. They offer liitle, and are annoyances to the



soul!



My view, thats all.



wyn



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 21:19

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Message 62 of 89 in Discussion

wyn

the turkish cypriot has been living with this form of greek propaganda well before my being and sadly i don,t see an end





musin

long live the kktc



jay76


Joined: 17/07/2008
Posts: 532

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 21:39

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Message 63 of 89 in Discussion

pikey i think that one day has already came and gone,accept it



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
08/09/2008 22:48

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Message 64 of 89 in Discussion

Living here and listening to the ground swell, Talat has only one aim and that is self glorification. He will be out of a job this time next year and like it or not he wants to leave his job with a solution. That solution is not to the benefit of ex-pats and for the majority of residents of TRNC.



My own opinion is any perceived solution now will be a sell out. One for which the Turkish military will not accept, their view being that Turkish blood was spilt prior to and after 20th July 1974. Whatever Talat may agree with his Communist Brothers you can forget as it will not be accepted by the majority or the military.



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 09:30

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Message 65 of 89 in Discussion

Talat and Christofias might indeed be seeking their nobel peace prize to be forever remembered in the annals of history



frontalman



Joined: 28/02/2008
Posts: 499

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 09:37

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Message 66 of 89 in Discussion

Regarding message 75 - and how the hell would such a crap solution be passed by a referendum in the North?



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 09:42

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Message 67 of 89 in Discussion

musin you say that its all ok because the kktc says so. please, i think the e.u court of human rights has already over ruled this. turkish army occupying gc's land. they ruled turkey had to compensate. hence agreeing that the land did infact belong to the original gc owner. the forth coming orams case should be the real test pilot.



also all the lawyers here say they trained in the uk.

1) when a good lawyer earns a figure of 600 pounds an hour in the uk, why did they come back here?

2) has anyone ever checked the credentials of these lawyers?



ours said they were uk qualified, but they can only just speak and understand english, how can this be?



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 15:23

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Message 68 of 89 in Discussion

PP

Your post 67

' It's also a big deal when one of the Brits running a forum is a criminal and fraudster.'

Can you explain further?



Firestarter

Your post 78

Good points re lawyers. I'd like to know the answers as well.



Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 15:29

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Message 69 of 89 in Discussion

Message 67

what exactly does the following mean ? !!!!!!!!!



''You will get what's coming to you at the end of the day''



wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 15:35

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Message 70 of 89 in Discussion

Villa owners in TRNC are all DOOMED!!!!!!



At least according to PP



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 15:38

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Message 71 of 89 in Discussion

78 & 79.



Asked our lawyer that question especially as they have a 1st class honours.



Simple answer, the UK government will not give work permits for them to practice, so back to TRNC after university.



Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 15:58

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Message 72 of 89 in Discussion

so back to TRNC after university , then for some simply take clients cash then simply tell clients a load of rubbish , fail to answer E-mails , fail a lot of there obligations and live very comfortable in the process .



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 18:32

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Message 73 of 89 in Discussion

Hector: "' It's also a big deal when one of the Brits running a forum is a criminal and fraudster.'



"Can you explain further? "



Unfortunately not in public.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 18:34

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Message 74 of 89 in Discussion

PIPIE: "Message 67 what exactly does the following mean ? !!!!!!!!!

''You will get what's coming to you at the end of the day''



It means one's just desserts.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 18:40

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Message 75 of 89 in Discussion

wackyjim: "Villa owners in TRNC are all DOOMED!!!!!!

At least according to PP"



Not doomed, surely? The only ones with something to lose are those who bought a place with dodgy title deeds - "Exchange", "TMD" or whatever they're calling them this week. But since you mentioned death, I think the law of averages would suggest some people will kill themselves as a result of what they got into in the TRNC. Others will probably go to an early grave in despair, as at least one stricken couple are now saying publicly.



wackyjim



Joined: 04/06/2007
Posts: 760

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 18:44

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Message 76 of 89 in Discussion

PP



I'm alright....I just keep taking the prozac!!!!



littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 18:47

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Message 77 of 89 in Discussion

Some fool accused me of taking prozac, what is is what does it do?



The only thing I take these days is Flack.



hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 18:52

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Message 78 of 89 in Discussion

True Nigel, but you keep smiling and thats what matters.

Hatti



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 19:00

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Message 79 of 89 in Discussion

msg 88, nothing wrong with a strict woman.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 19:54

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Message 80 of 89 in Discussion

Hi all,



As my old grandad used to say......



It is easy enough to be pleasant, when life rolls along like a song,



But the man whose worth while, is the man who can smile, when everything goes wrong!



I dont think PP suffers from stress, but I think he may be a carrier!



wyn



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 19:56

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Message 81 of 89 in Discussion

"I think he may be a carrier!"



You're thinking of me old mate Invincible.



MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
09/09/2008 23:20

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Message 82 of 89 in Discussion

firestarter

msg 78

the compensation has been there from day one ,no one has said otherwise.

if you buy in england then you go by english laws ,if you are in germany then you adhere too german laws ,so why do you think the kktc is any different,if you don.t take turkish laws serious then how can you take the country and its peoples serious ,your statement says "just becouse the kktc says so ,please"

as for solicitors you should pose that question to them.



regards

musin

long live the kktc



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 05:49

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Message 83 of 89 in Discussion

musin, you don't need to question my loyalty to the trnc. i live here in a tc village.



the issue is that if you buy in the uk or germany then your title to your property is recognised under international law. there are no claims from anyone. you got what you payed for. here that is not the case.



why would the estate agents ect, tell people that they were buying land which was exchanged with gc's. when this is not the case?



as the kktc claim that the law here is based on english law, how can this be happening?



Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 09:39

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Message 84 of 89 in Discussion

Wyn. you missed the best bit!



For the test of the heart is trouble,

And it always comes with the years,

And the smile that is worth the praises of earth

Is the smile that shines through tears.



wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 10:19

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Message 85 of 89 in Discussion

Chessman,



You are a big softie, but I like you!



wyn



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 10:50

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Message 86 of 89 in Discussion

pp wrote



"The only ones with something to lose are those who bought a place with dodgy title deeds - "Exchange", "TMD" or whatever they're calling them this week. But since you mentioned death, I think the law of averages would suggest some people will kill themselves as a result of what they got into in the TRNC. Others will probably go to an early grave in despair, as at least one stricken couple are now saying publicly."



I hope you wouldn't be pleased that someone would take their life, so as to confirm your belief in your moral rightness in the Cyprus situation?



Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 10:54

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Message 87 of 89 in Discussion

Thank you Wyn. I bet these sentiments will annoy the cynics and the 'nasties' though. So let's keep it going!



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 11:11

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Message 88 of 89 in Discussion

cyprusishome, the uk gov seem as far as i understand be giving work permits to foreign trainee solicitors. if you have 4 gcse's you can get onto a law degree course, when you pass this you then need to work for 2 years in a law practice before you qualify.



to qualify you need to take a final exam!



if you don't you are not a qualified lawyer!



the firm who you work for gets the work permit for you. written and spoken english is an important part of all of this,so that counts out half of the trnc lawyers then.

another part they seem to find important is character and suitability again i recon this rules out the other 50%.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
10/09/2008 12:14

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Message 89 of 89 in Discussion

msg 99, well said.



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