the actions of the turkish army

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 19:27

Yesterday's provocation of Attila to stop the Divine Liturgy in occupied Agios Prudence in the Karpas to draw believers from the church and remove the robes of the priests, forbidding them to continue the Christmas sequence, prompted a strong reaction and anger form the Church, Government and Parties, who say they are ready to complaint the event at international forums.



they dont respect anything.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 19:31

The police raided the Church of St. caution in occupied Rizokarpaso, stopped for the first time the Divine Liturgy, sealed the church, pulled out the faithful and ordered the priest to take off the vestments of the joyful birth of Christ. And it stayed there. Notice and the priest of St. Sunday not to go to work. The ultimate violation of religious freedoms. 'Rationale', that they had not filed a request for a liturgy.





google translated !!!!!!!!!!!

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 19:47

Any sources for this? Outrageous behaviour if true. Call themselves civilised?

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 20:26

It is no different than the behaviour of anti-terror British, German or French police, who had in the past regularly raided the mosques, strip searched, and forced women to remove outer garments as well as their turbans etc! Itf that is allowed then this is just as civilised.

I have nor read the news yet but looking at what tracer says, there must have been some provocation or intelligence to alert the army/police who felt the action was necessary. Greeks have been praying in Rizokarpazo not for the first time, and without any trouble from anyone on all those occasions.

I shall find out the exact facts and keep you informed, meanwhile, do not worry yourselves with hoıw much civilised they are before getting your own house in order i.e. the ever groving support for the EOKA-B animals in the South!

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 20:36

http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy/main/92,1,283,0,15688-.aspx



find a rock an hide bigoz



a few empty bottles in a match and you make it α political issue. what about this ?

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 20:49

Why should I hide behind anything? We have not resisted the dogs of EOKA and extermination for 50 yearsby hiding! Never mind the attack like a pack of wolves on the Turkish basktball players, reminding us of even a bigger attack on the Turkish National team in Athens couple of years back, for every sad story you come out with as such to stir shite, I can quote you a dozen!

All you have given a link to is a Greek Cypriot Cyprus weekly report, That includes none of the details you quoted earlier. AND even if it did - it would be as biased as hell with no real credibilıty for anyone in this part of the island.

Do you think this may have to do with your head of church Hrisostomos Alithia, who attacked very strongly both Turkey and TRNC Evkaf couple of weeks ago - claiming that the Church in Rizokarpaz belonged to Greeks and they will not talk to anyone in North about the much needed repairs? (continues below)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 20:53

That being his royal holiness wish (and we all know how much your Greek Orthodox priests love advocating Turk hatred and politics during their Sunday services), what do you say Evkaf should be given back all rights and running of the valued Muslim spot of Hala Sultan in Larnaca to Turkish Cypriots?

The day the tradition of your Greek Orthodox priestds interfering in politics stop, then perhaps there will be less scenes of this kind as direct result of provocation!

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 20:59

Maybe the UN can confrim it is investigating. No excuses for bullying isolated minorities anywhere on the island.



Is this the town where the Christians were banned from ringing their church bell by the Turkish army?

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 21:02

nice everything now belong to evkaf say that 40 times and it will be true.

listen bigoz the property of Tcs and evkaf is no more than 18% maybe 20% find a read the british land registry from the 50s and you will lean something . so neither varoshia or karpaz belongs to evkaf , only some small areas.



or believe rauf he said you own 38%.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 21:11

Denny; I have no such knowledge so I cannot comment about church bells...

The UN is powerless in such matters! When the UN conveyed to Greek Orthodox church that they should be talking to the Turkish Cypriot Evkaf, with regards to the much needed repairs of the Church in Rizo Karpaz, they flatly refused to coordinate with anyone in TRNC claiming it is their property and they need no permision or assistance from anyone - total disrespect and insult to the other party. They even threatened to go to European Human Rights court if necessary - like the ECHR has nothing else on agenda but GC claims for the rest of tis century!

So do they want to acknowledge our existance and talk with us - or do they want third parties to act on their behalf all the time? If they wish to insult the TRNC and/or the Turkish army agains third pparties and during their preachings all the time, this is what they'll get - it is their choice!

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 21:14

msg 8 right on denny.



Bigoz do you know how manny thousands of tcs attent to events in hala sultan every year ? also you have 101 mosques

in the south in prime condition .what you have to say for the thousands churchs big or small you destroy or used as barns/stables in the north. This is how you show your respect.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 21:33

tracer; I have learned all can. The 18-20 % you refer to is the property owned by TCs by deeds. But that proportionality does not apply to the actual public land available to us. We had 30% right in everything when the republic was declared - that included the representation in the government and running of the country. That was what Makarios tried to reduce to 20% and all hell broke out back in 1963. A mistake he himself admitted much later! You cannot apportion the running of a country by the deeds of private owners. Hence the 26% TCs were willing to settle down as a federal area under their rule. So who will pay for the 103 villages TCs left behind back in 1963? Have the Greeks set up a commission in the South to compensate the TCs? How many have been compensated?

As for Varosha, it was worthless sand dunes before 1960, when the Brits with Vakıf permission allowed a school (or a church - not so sure now) to be built in the vicinity. (continues)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 21:37

The Vakıf is a care taker, they do not change the deeds to their name. Varosha became what it isd after 1963 and when Evkaf had no öore say on the land because you pushewd us into enclaves!

The mosques in the South are to cater for and impress your Arab friends who have been a great financial support in South Cyprus - not that you care much for TCs ability to pray!

Do you know the mosk not far from Ledra street was bombed/burnt 3 times - latest was not many moons ago either. Give it a rest tracer - you are on a losing argument here!

yeniboy


Joined: 07/09/2010
Posts: 11

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 22:59

Please TRACER tell me where the pristine 101 Mosques are?

the greeks gained their land in the 50's and 60's by threats and intimidation.The TC's sold it to the Greeks who may now own it, but at what cost. How can you farm your land when trapped in 3% of the country for 11 years.

I do not know the facts of this action at Christmas, but I'm sure it is a result of provocation...............and how many Churches have been built in the South that are certainly not needed. Your Archbishops are certainly not my idea of Christians all they preach is hatred to any other Religion.

You claim to be people of God, but God help the world if that's the case.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 23:08

I am with you on this Tracer. There is no reason these why people should not be allowed to visit their Church and pray at this special time. I have been there several times myself and don't see significance. The wildlife over there is another matter. At least our wildlife are four legged, I am more interested in what is to happen to your 2 legged wildlife in the south of the border.

However, in 2004 Papadobullos was told by the UN to ask for Karpaz back, and that the TCs would not object to it. He refused. I don't need to tell you why he did that. If he had and they voted for the plan, not only would most of the Turkish Army be out of Cyprus by now, but also Varosa, Omorfo and Karpaz would have been part of GRoC.

Forgive me if I don't start jumping up and down with anger.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 23:29

If the ROC protest to the EU about TRNC behaviour is it not by default that they recognise a separate 'regime' on their own territory which the EU has endorsed as a whole, belonging and ruled by them which then indicates that the ROC is totally out of control of its own Governance and should be nuked out of the EU and its total illegal existence! Those 'pusti Malakas' can't play rugby or cricket so deserve no fair playing field! Happy New Year!



Richard

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 23:33

Thanks Yfred it doesnt matter to me who owns what I Feel home at any part of cyprus cause Iam a cypriot. does anyone of you feel the same or you feel TR in the north and Tcs in the south?



PS: any kind of wildlife must be protected by law.





msg14"Please TRACER tell me where the pristine 101 Mosques are"

all over the south yeniboy



"the greeks gained their land in the 50's and 60's by threats and intimidation.The TC's sold it to the Greeks who may now own it, but at what cost. How can you farm your land when trapped in 3% of the country for 11 years. "



if they sold did for any reasons its been sold

any one who have original deeds come and claim it nobody can refuse them that right.even if the exchange it cause any deal with the trnc for us is void.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
26/12/2010 23:40

Tracer, We are TCs where ever we may be. Even the settlers have become TCs. I am worried about the well being of the 2 legged wildlife in the south, more the threat from them. Is RoC taking action against these animals. Although calling them animals is an insult to the animal kingdom.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
27/12/2010 00:58

Tracer

Tell me about falsified title deeds where by Cypriot Turks that have copies of their original title deeds for property owned in Pafos now find that the original title deeds have been altered/falsified to show GC ownership. There are 27 families that I know of and I am sure that it is a lot bigger than that. And guess what, your government want to sweep it all under the carpet.

Please do not try to preach to us in the TRNC as we all know what is going on (apart from you obviously).

AJ

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
27/12/2010 02:04

AJ, there are thousands of cases. This is why GCs have got TC as 12% and they actually believe it. But in the negotiations they have gone even further back than 1963. There is no way TRNC will be less than 27%. They actually believe that the rented Efkaf lands were sold and transfered to the RoC government. When people are in such denial there is not a lot you can discuss.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
27/12/2010 08:35

if what you are saying AJ is truth (ive said that alot of times) for me its illegal.

if they can prove it, they shoud do that with all means.



Yfred not a 12% at least 20% its season greetings i feel good take it as a gift.

or everybody goes back to his village north or south and live happily ever after.



Ps:shame on you feel like this forthe wildlife of your country but my believe is that after so many years they are near extinction.



"We are TCs where ever we may be"

you have lost some points here YFRED the magic word is CYPRIOT not TC or GC.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
27/12/2010 14:27

tracer



you express to yfred and want to push the point ;the magic word ...cypriot not tc or gc ,it,s a shame your fellow gc,s did not see it like you have ,instead choose to remove all tc,s by any means ,sometimes just sometimes you have to just be a human being ,,that is the magic word .



you missed your chances in 04 ,you will not get another ,however you decide to dress it.



musin



long live the kktc

Ozankoyman


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 35

Message Posted:
28/12/2010 00:51

I must add to this ,the south lost their chance in 2004 thanks to their greed.

The recognition of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus is on its way.

pollymarples


Joined: 08/08/2010
Posts: 1778

Message Posted:
28/12/2010 08:12

If this is true then citing past acts as to excuse it is ridiculous. Whenever did TWO WRONGS make it RIGHT.



I stress, if this is true, I pray to God it is not.

yeniboy


Joined: 07/09/2010
Posts: 11

Message Posted:
28/12/2010 10:55

Tracer, my friend I am afraid there are Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots always have been and always will be, remove the rose coloured glasses my friend and prepare for some changes in 2011.

I also travel in the South a great deal and certainly know the Mosques in Lefokosa, Limassol, Larnaca an Paphos just left for the tourists to see and to be told how nice the people are keeping these mosques.Yes they are used when the GC's allow. However look around Lefkosa and the villages and you will see land once occupied by a Mosque now just a concrete base with rubble at the side, some of this land has now been used for building and nobody is in denial about the churches in the North being vandalised, but many of these are now being looked after and most of the icons were removed before the Turkish Army got there. You, 'Tracer' are in a world invented by the GC education system and tourist board, I've heard the falsehoods uttered by Tourist Representatives to gullible visitors who believe.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
28/12/2010 21:30

"and most of the icons were removed before the Turkish Army got there"

Yes removed and sold to the highest bidder.this is what you mean i believe

the same goes for the whole city of varoshia who removed everything moveable.

and quess................... all the stuff was sold to turkey.

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
28/12/2010 21:46

tracer , you are pikey , i dont know how the mods cant suss you out , you are everything GC and absoloutly nothing TC , you only come on this board to stir things up , stick to the southern board god nows they will need people like you when theyre economy collapses and the mother land will be forced to turn their backs on them , dont forget TURKEY has never turned its back on its own , LONG LIVE KKTC .

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
28/12/2010 22:07

tracer



i think we all get your message ,you do not like anything turkish .





well you are welcome to leave this forum ,as rowlo says stick to the south .



musin



long live the kktc

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
28/12/2010 23:22

"you are everything GC and absoloutly nothing TC"

So what are you ? not GC or TC

Iam as musin i quess a Cypriot

what are you doing here?

"when theyre economy collapses and the mother land will be forced to turn their backs on them"

what motherland the one that we have to support. i expect nothing from them what they have done its enough re 74 .





Ps: i cannot believe that you are so naive to believe that turkey is here for the TCS or CTS?



msg28



"you do not like anything turkish "

you are very wrong on that musin ,if it was truth i must ask you, do you like anything Cypriot .nor greek or turkish

just plain cypriot.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010

Tracer, I am sure you do not hate TCs, and I am sure you want a peaceful solution to the division of our island for the benefit of our children. BUT you are missing out on some facts - facts that make any possibility of dropping ethnic IDs to one side and claiming to be Cypriots - something I strongly advocated and practised during my days in London (early 1970s). At the time, our GC counterparts were even more educated in world history and history of Cyprus, those who believed living with TCs peacefully were in great majority, and even Makarios himself had come the realise what a big mistake it was to dream of Enosis, or to attempt to make Cyprus a Greek island. Hence, I had good reason to trust the GCs in general.

Can the same be said about our positions now? I do not think so! Over the decades, GC youth have been taught false history, given the wrong facts about the events, and have been turned into "Turk haters", blaming everything on Turkey's intervention.(continues)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 00:09

Even Greece has admitted recently that, Turkey's intervention and invasion of the island was legal. As a result of this biased education, the EOKA-B element has gained a lot of support and has become a major headache for the government in the South.

We are aware that majority of GCs will not harm TCs and would even welcome them in the South, and might even be sincere in their friendliness - especially when TCs buy things out there, and the vice versa is also true on our side. The major "BUT" here is; that still does not and will not stop the neo-fascists of EOKA-B from attacking, harming or hurting TCs on their trips to South. We are all aware of these events and I am sure so are you.

Remembering that the whole 1963 war started - flared up by the shooting and killing of two TCs (one of them a woman) by a Greek police sergeant (later discovered to be an EOKA member) in Lefkoşs. What guarantees can anyone provide to my child or close relatives that no such thing will happen to the

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 00:19

I for one, would not hesitate to shoot the bugger, who would try to lynch my son in front of my eyes! And then what? So, I have come to accept that GCs must live in their area and us TCs in ours. If there will eventually be united Cypriot Nation, then this cannot be enforced under current circumstances. It will only happen naturally AFTER each side has taught the true historic facts to their children, taught them to respect each other as equal human beings sharing the same mother land, and all traces of hatred due to religious or ethnic differences have eroded. Only then, the changes you desire will happen naturally - but probably not before another 20-25 years, because it took more than that to brainwash the misinformed GC adults of today!

Your biggest obstacle during this process are your priests and churches, who never give up preaching hatred towards anything that is Turk, and advocating violence using camouflaged terms such as "resistance" and "struggle".

Alanx999


Joined: 31/05/2010
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 02:17

HOI ! - bigOz ! - I'm not letting go your comments in M4, quoted below -

"It is no different than the behaviour of anti-terror British, German or French police, who had in the past regularly raided the mosques, strip searched, and forced women to remove outer garments as well as their turbans etc! Itf that is allowed then this is just as civilised. "

You mention in later posts your ignorance, to which I have to agree. For you to publish such a view without any corroborative evidence will only justify others to wonder how stupid you are.

It is comments such as this that fuel unfounded antagonism against others. If people such as yourself just gave a moment's thought before uttering such garbage, perhaps there would be a better world?

denizen



Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 08:15

msg 33: well put alanx999



D

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 08:44

"would not hesitate to shoot the bugger "

it will be too late for you bigoz cause i will shoot him first.



"that still does not and will not stop the neo-fascists of EOKA-B from attacking"



they are just a minorιty bigoz ok they shout loud but they are still a minority .



its in the hand of the majority to put them in their place.



"flared up by the shooting and killing of two TCs (one of them a woman)"

ok our story goes like that: the police stopped a car for a search.(for arms) the TCs refused to show their papers

...... the woman was just passing from the spot starts shouting and in an instant 300 tcs suround the police ............and then all hell broke loose .

the question for the above is how easy was for 300 tc in this late hour to be in that spot.



Ps: just for information nobody teach in the schools the facts of those days (63-64). they just pass it with the words (the turkish mutiny).

I would like to have you version on that.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 08:50

It would not beyond the wit of the G/C to engineer this confrontation by calling in anonymously to report suspected acts of terrorism linked to the service just to bring about this type of event....



Something is up....

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 09:21

Your quess is as good as mine Groutcho i was 2 years old at that time.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 12:09

Alanx999!

Who the hell are you to let or not go my comments and call me insulting names? YOu are the ignorant idiot in this forum who has obviously decided to come in and disrupt sensible mature discussions. Take your obscenities to some National Front forum you idiot!

The point I was clearly making, depending or information oe intelligence, police all over the world (including UK) have and can raid religious places such as churches or mosques to combat terrorism. They are misinformed more often than not and perhaps on one occasion out of a dozen they may be right. I cannot judge their actions, but point out to the fact that it happens. It happens usually in a rougher or more violent way in UK and Europe. So why should anyone criticise the TC police or military from searching the church at Rizokarpaz on suspicion based on intelligence?

Just to prove what an illitrate and an idiot you are, next post has all the "corraborative evidence you are asking for:

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 12:10

“Mosque raided as U.S., Iraqi forces seek soldiers”

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL13283152



“Federal agents and city police raided a Muslim mosque overnight Wednesday, with armed officers sealing off a block in downtown Albany for several hours…”

http://www.command-post.org/gwot/2_archives/014220.html



“18 Aug 2004 ... There was no real terrorist plot officials say, but federal authorities raided a New York mosque and accused two spiritual leaders of being ...”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/05/terror/main634129.shtml



Police continue to quiz seven after mosque raid - UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-155644/Police-continue-quiz-seven-mosque-raid.html#ixzz19UbbmEp1



An Afghan family facing deportation after being removed from a Midland mosque in a 'military-style' police raid won a temporary reprieve last night.

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Family+in+mosque+raid+wins+reprieve.-a089623431

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 12:12

Lee Jasper, former Senior Director of Policing for London has condemned the alleged drugs raid on the Mosque in Brixton, South London.

Reports are that at 11:15 am on Thursday 22 July 2010 armed police officers forced their way into the UK Headquarters of The Nation of Islam in Brixton, London.

It’s reported by the NOI that the Police insisted that they had intelligence that there was a cannabis factory on the premises. The Police then bizarrely claimed that they were unaware that it was a Mosque building.

http://operationblackvote.wordpress.com/2010/07/23/rally-against-nation-of-islam-mosque-raid-by-armed-police/

Police continue to quiz seven after mosque raid - UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-155644/Police-continue-quiz-seven-mosque-raid.html#ixzz19UbbmEp1

Israeli forces raided the Al-Aqsa Mosque compound in Jerusalem on Sunday as twelve Palestinians suffered tear-gas inhalation injuries.

Arrests, injuries as Israel raids al-Aqsa Mosque compound

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 12:20

The Gothenburg police are facing more criticism following revelations that they locked eight men in a mosque when responding to a terror threat on October 30th.

http://info-wars.org/2010/11/12/sweden-men-locked-in-mosque-during-terror-raid/

There are dozens of more examples all over the World including UK! SO WHO IS THE "IGNORANT" PERSON "UTTERING GARBAGE" THEN?

Bugger off to some National Front forum where you live, and take your side-kick "denizen" with you. This forum has had enough share of ignorant quasimotos throwing abuse at every post that may not suit their own extreme views!

My advise to you; if you disagree or do not agree with the contents of a post, ask the author for evidence and express why you disagree rather than throw abose at first opportunity! . That way you may discover something you did not know...

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 13:27

Aman tanrim



I had to support bigoz for the above



"from searching the church at Rizokarpaz on suspicion based on intelligence?"



but we know bigoz that the raid in Rezokarpaso was not made after any intelligence information !

it was a retaliation for the assault of the turkish team from those brailess creatures or 2 legged animals as YFRED calls them.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 14:07

Oh Banaiyamu re gumbare, espases do cehalismas. O hristos je i manadu je o jiristu na se thi.

Was there any action taken against any of the 500 or so 2 legged animals?

BTW I think it is wrong that they stopped people celebrating the birth of the man whose father was god and mother was a virgin which died and came back to life again. Despite ridiculousness of their belief.

Alanx999


Joined: 31/05/2010
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 18:45

Look up 'North London Central Mosque' in Wikipedia and form your own opinion, not the opinion of someone plainly ignorant of the facts.

Enough said. Do not expect any more replies from me on this matter.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 19:29

msg 43

egelasa polla Yfred



"Was there any action taken against any of the 500 or so 2 legged animals?"

5 was arrested send to court

for others they are searching the stadium cameras .

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
29/12/2010 19:52

alanx999; We are not holding our breath! - The more you say the more you are making yourself sound like everything you call others; I wish you would put your reading glasses on and read more carefully what others write! Read the point I was making in my posts - then you would realise how absurd your quotation from North London Central Mosque in your last post is. It in fact supports my statements about the reasons for raiding such places of worship. BTW was the last part of your pseudonym intentionally the sign of the devil upside down (666)?

tracer; No! It was not in retaliation to that game at all - but it may well have been in retaliation to what your current archbishop keeps blabbering about and interfering with everyday politics, when we have two heads of communities heavily discussing the way for a solution.

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 09:22

Just to return to the original report that started this thread, TRNC has now denied that the incident took place. I must confess I was very surprised at the original report as the TRNC has generally been very co-operative on religious matters even though it is the Greek Orthodox church that does the most to prolong the enmity between the 2 peoples. I don't know who is right but this sort of false propoganda is so typical of the South.



http://www.brtk.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18791:oezersay-responds-to-gc-claims&catid=5:kktc&Itemid=28

DaveBoy


Joined: 02/08/2009
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 12:33

yfred...message 43.Whilst i understand the sentiments expressed by both sides of this debate you have just personalised the discussion in such a negative manner by ridiculing one's religious beliefs.

Those comments you frivously make can cause widespread aanger between communities such as that in Pakistan where a christian woman has been sentenced to death for allegedly insulting the prophet.



your remarks are not alleged, they are there for all to see....



I do hope you recognise that the remarks you made were both unnecessary and ill judged...

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 13:57

DaveBoy, I was not going to log back on till the end of the weekend but could not resist as we have an hour break from merryment.

Regarding your message, I beg to differ, and hold all religions with the same contempt. Us TCs are not very religious you see. If people in Pakistan or any other religiously backward country had my way of thinking there would be no problem at all. It is imposing ones opinion on others that causes the problem. If anything I said was incorrect please do let me know. When the church attempts to replace Biology lessons with creationism in the so called most civilised nation on earth is no different then what is happening in Pakistan. You see, I am not ridiculing anybody; they do a good job doing it for themselves.

Have a happy new year

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 17:01

As someone who had to leave Cyprus since childhood and has ever since wondered what, if anything, is the answer to the senselessness of the hatred AND who finds the 44 Forum a source of some of the information on what is going on in their birthplace, I have to say: Msg 32 contains the key to it all.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 13:46

Yfred the reason you "dont like" christian religion in my opinion have to do something with the 72 virgins

cause everything else is somehow the same .

Rottolover



Joined: 21/06/2009
Posts: 519

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 14:11

tracer, you're displaying some serious deficiencies in reading ability, as well as in understanding what is being written. Nowhere in what YFred wrote did I notice the word "Christian" (with or without a capital 'C'). He actually said he "held all religions with the same contempt", and to me "all religions" means all religions...



Something else he said makes a lot of sense to me as well..."It is imposing ones opinion on others that causes the problem." Organised religion has, in my opinion, been the cause of most of the world's troubles for several thousand years and counting. Believe what you will in private and good luck to you, but please resist the urge to ram it down my throat.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
02/01/2011 15:47

rott

its hard for you to notice the joke in msg 51

im sure YRFED will grab it in mid-air.........................you know cypriots kind of humor...........

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 09:38

Hey Brother!



Welcome to 'the fray'..



Your post in msg 50 .. RESPECT.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 10:55

Tracer are we trying to make light of it now?



You started this thread... there are now reports that there is no substance to your claims... are you going to provide any evidence?

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 14:37

Groucho what evidence do you want ?

'there is no substance to your claims"

the report that the incident never occur by the the President’s Special Representative Kudret Özersay

i have an eye witness so nothing more to say.



anybody can believe what he wants .

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 16:30

Tracer please read what rottolover said. He has got it exactly right. 72 virgins? Me thinks not, I've already had them and no need for them after I am dead. lol. I doubt my john thomas would rise to the occasion after I am dead. Christianity holds a very special place an the all the contempt I feel for all religions. The reason is that in 63, the Church on the hilltop in Limbya was used as a post to fire into Lurucina. Bullets being fired at 5 year children with the blessing of the church is unforgettable. Especially considering the christian belief that if you are struck on one cheek, turn the other cheek. All the religions of the world have been used to incite violence and still continue to this day.

May this year be different and all people wake up from this nightmare all round the world.

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 19:08

Yfred as i can understand there is a misunderstand here and misjudge me

Im not a religious man and i dont believe what they are saying. nobody can make me hate anybody what ever.



You notice by now that Iam against everything and anything happened in 63 and im still learning things from honest people .

and im asking because i found out that nobody wants to speak about those days not even my father and believe me when i ask him i can see pain in his eyes .also the decade 60-70 is absent

from any greek history books they just call it the turkish rebelion . thats all. So they are hiding a lot of the truth.



as wrote in other posts .........everybody lies .

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 20:38

Tracer;



I was rather hoping you could provide corroborating evidence and not hearsay. Surely somebody took photos of the incident.

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 21:00

Groucho are you seriuosly suggesting you don't believe it ..........or just winding tracer up..?????????

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 21:14

Kudret Ozersay, Turkish Cypriot leader's Special Representative, responded to questions of illegal Bayrak television (30.12.10, online) regarding the church service in occupied Karpass peninsula which was stopped on Christmas by the breakaway regime.

Ozersay alleged that the "TRNC", respects individuals' freedom of worship. He pointed out that within this framework the regime gave permission many times in the past for such services, even in military zones. He said they are not pleased when problems regarding the freedom of worship are created, but "the TRNC, like in all the other civilized countries of the world, has laws and regulations which should be followed".

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 21:31

Groucho this is how they respect freedom of worship.

http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy/main/78,1,258,0,15894-.aspx

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 21:44

Who are 'they'?



This is not evidence of the incident you allege...



As it happens maybe they see organised religion as a hot bed of the world's problems... and who can argue with that? Given the history of the Christian and other faiths (save a few notable exceptions) over the ages....

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 21:56

I dident alleged anything its was all over the media . Did i make that up ?



you know exactly who are they are you playing hide and seek now groucho or trying to stir up things, you made me think.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 21:59

"all over the media"



Not the media I saw... show me some that is not GC controlled.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 22:09

Try http://www.bbc.co.uk/search/news/cyprus

because I can't see anything...

tracer


Joined: 02/06/2010
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 22:26

So not in BBC, is not truth, what do you expect a reporter on side? or you should be on side to believe it >

apc2010


Joined: 28/07/2010
Posts: 1689

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 22:28

nothing in the bbc about dog poision this week ..so dont worry =no poison .......

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 23:31

@ msg 68 - spot on.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
03/01/2011 23:45

Tracer, if you are genuine about finding out what happend in Cyprus between 1960 and 1974, follow the posts of a Bananiot on the other forum. Read the books he suggests particularly Makarios Drousiotis. He has documented this period very well.



You can also read the info below.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37617856/Nations-and-States-in-Southeast-Europe



Me I was 5 years old in 63, and enxperienced the effect of enclaving personally. Do not believe that the Turkish Cypriots enclaved themselves, it is just not true. My aunt fell ill and had to wait 1 week for UN ambulance to come and collect her to go to hospital and died on arrival

People from 5 villages moved into Lurucina in 63 and not one went back upto 74. Immediately after 74, they all moved to the north. I can assure you these people were free to go back to their homes any time they wished with no transport required, just a couple of hours of walking and not one did.

The root of the problem was eoka, TMT was the reactio

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
07/01/2011 14:12

http://www.brtk.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=18791:oezersay-responds-to-gc-claims&catid=5:kktc&Itemid=28



The Greek Cypriot Administration has released a series of false press reports concerning a religious mass in the Karpaz area in an attempt to cover up the racist attack on the Kaşıyaka-Apoel basketball game as well as other attacks by the extreme right wing Greek Cypriot organization-ELAM (The national peoples’ front). The President’s Special Representative Kudret Özersay has denied reports that Christmas liturgies in the Karpaz region were interrupted by TRNC authorities.



“We are following the developments closely” said Özersay, pointing out that the emergence of such claims in the immediate aftermath of unacceptable attacks on Turks in South Cyprus were thought-provoking.

basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
07/01/2011 14:13

continues ....



Speaking to the BRT, the President’s special aide said that the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus was respectful to all religions as well as the right to practice them.



Pointing out that TRNC authorities had permitted on numerous occasions for liturgies to take place at many religious and holy sites, including those located within military zones, Özersay said “Whether it may be in Karpaz or any other part of our country, it would displease us to see problems arising from the worship of any religion. However, as in all other civilized countries in the world, there are laws and rules in the TRNC by which everyone must abide.”

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
07/01/2011 18:06

Basil - this is the same link that I gave in message 47

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
07/01/2011 18:38

Having attended the first mass since 1974 at Apostolos Andreas alongside enclaved and exiled Greek Cypriots in 1995, I would take that report with a large pinch of salt.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
08/01/2011 15:40

Greek and Turkish PMs exchanged criticisms during a recent even in Turkey, what was otherwise a very friendly meeting with good intentions. The bits that would concern us most included:

"Papandreou denounced Turkey’s military presence in Northern Cyprus and warned that “as long as Turkey’s occupation continues, the problems in Turkey’s European Union membership process will continue.” He urged Ankara for “new dynamism” in reforms to align with E.U. norms.

Despite a marked improvement in bilateral ties since 1999, the two neighbors remain at loggerheads over territorial rights in the Aegean Sea and Cyprus, divided between its Turkish and Greek communities since 1974.

Taking the floor after Papandreou, Erdogan accused the E.U. of discrimination toward Turkey in its struggling membership bid. The E.U. “is testing our patience … If you do not want to take Turkey, say that openly … We will maintain our patience to a certain point, but patience runs out,” he said. (cont. below)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
08/01/2011 15:41

He also lashed out at the E.U. for having failed to keep promises to ease the isolation of the self-declared Turkish Cypriot statelet, made in 2004 when its people voted in favor of a U.N. plan to reunify Cyprus, killed off by a resounding “no” in Greek Cyprus, which is internationally recognized.

He also criticized Greece for not allowing its Turkish minority to elect its religious leader. Referring to disputes in the Aegean, Erdogan spoke of “mutual flights” that create tensions, but stressed “there is no reason for us not to resolve” them.

Full details of the meeting and other comments can be read in:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=2&article_id=123358#axzz1ARyzQ0zp