Zeytinlik's medieval history (Maybe one for DC)

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 20:16

Anybody got any information on the medieval history of Zeytinlik and its links to St Hilarion? Especially in the time the Templars ruled. Don't know if it was called Templos at that time, or later.

I've tried googling, but there doesn't seem to be masses of information and I've got nothing of substance in the books yet. Will try the bookshops in the new year, but thought I'd just ask

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 20:28

RE msg 1: Zeytinlik was named Templos in the Middle Ages (Frankish or Lusignan rule). Sometimes wrongly bastardised as Temblos. Is belonged to the Order of the Knights Templar hence Templos. There is still to see (at least one of) the round, shielded Templar stones which were used as borderstones. But be not mistaken: the current village of Zeytinlijk is not the old Templos - that village was quite nearby but has almost completely vanished.

Old Templos must have had a stable for horses, where the lower nobility would flee and escape, when St Hilarion was besieged and about to fall. (The Royal familiy, on the third level of St Hilarion, would flee down the slopes to Karmí, a medieval possession of the Order of the Carmelites hence the name).

More here: ▶ http://allcrusades.com/CASTLES/CYPRUS/ST.%20HILARION/Postern_gate_3d_level/pictures/s3500949.html

And here: ▶ http://www.allcrusades.com/CASTLES/CYPRUS/ZEYTINLIK-TEMPLOS/zeytinlik-templos-txt-1.html

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 20:36

Thanks for that, Hans.

Couple of extra questions based on that. Whereabouts would Templos be in relation to Zeytinlik?

Secondly, Richard the Lionheart beat Issac Comnenus in 1191 and then sold the island to the Templars didn't he? did they not sell the island to Guy of Lusignan a short while afterwards but remain on the island? If I am right, which I don't claim to be, did the castles belong to the Lusignans or did the Templars retain some of them?

I know the Easter day uprising involved a castle in Nicosia and the Templars sallying forth - but that was still 1192 when they ruled the island.

Just trying to clear up a slight confusion in my mind

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 20:50

RE msg 3: From what I have found and have been told by a retired Zeytinlik schoolmaster Zeytinlik can be located South-South-West of current Zeytinlik (I estimate: about a mile away).

2: Richard etc: yes, correct. No, the Templars couldn't rule the obstinate locals and were happy to resell the island of Cyprus to Richard ((although they only had paid 40,000 Bezants (gold pieces) - the agreed price had been 100,000 Bezants)). At the time the Crusader King of Jerusalem, Guy de Lusignan, was kicked out of that city in the Holy Land by the great Arab (Kurdish) warrior Saladin. Guy more or less fled to Cyprus where Richard was pleased to give his vassal Guy de Lusignan Cyprus as a fief.

Castles: only the Royal Lusignans were allowed to have castles, all other nobles, including the arrogant Knights Templar, were only allowed fortresses and fortified houses. A matter of Lusignan mistrust.

Easter: yes, correct. You certainly make me work in the old year...

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 20:51

DC,



Is it really true that a place-name can be "wrongly bastardised"? Surely if locals and natives know the place by a similar name it is simply an alternative? This is very often the case all over Cyprus and the other names are usually historic. For instance, the Turkish authorities imposed new and often foreign names on villages and towns in the north after the invasion - and yet Turkish Cypriots continue to use the correct and legal pre-1974 names e.g. Karmi, Tembos and Ayyorgi.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 21:01

Denny, I'm not going into that again. I accept and use the Turkish names, because the TRNC government, which I acknowledge and support, has renamed almost all cities and villages with Greek names.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 21:43

Thank you for that DC.

Denny, "some" Turkish Cypriots still use the former names, but not all. Some do because they are older and remember the villages the way they learned them, some because they hate the Turkish yoke.

Denny


Joined: 09/12/2010
Posts: 261

Message Posted:
31/12/2010 22:04

DC,

No problem. I just thought as an amateur historian you would be keen to tell all the historical facts and not a "Year Zero" self-censored version.



Anthony,

Your post is the sub-text of the point I was making.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
01/01/2011 09:25

Denny, you're obviously to new on TRNC boards to know. In the past ten years I wrote about certain eras in Cyprus' history: Lusignan, Genoese/Venetian and early Ottoman. I reply to questions and mention certain historical facts if I think it may interest (some) people.

I have always tried not to mix my interest and specialty with Cyprus' youngest history. Now you invite me to just do that - I won't. In this thread I replied to a serious question from AnthonySmith - if you want to discuss Cyprus' youngest history you may start a new thread. But before you do it, you may check how many times GC supporters have brought up the subject before you.