[ TURKS ] Why there are Cypriot Turks in Cyprus

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 18:59

I noticed in discussions about "Greek speaking Cypriots and Cypriot Turks" that many expats have no idea WHY and since WHEN there are Cypriot Turks (descendants of mainland Ottoman Turks) in Cyprus.

Here's an answer in a very small nutshell: there were hardly any mainland Turks in Cyprus at all during the Lusignan era (1192-1489) - except for some slaves and later some spies for the Ottoman Turkish Empire during the Venetian rule (1489-1571).

The situation changed when Ottoman Turkish army commander Lala Mustapha Pasha and his 200.000 men strong army conquered Cyprus in 1570/71. But that's another story - to begin with I hope some readers are interested to see how the Ottoman Turks conquered Cyprus.

Here's their impressive militairy campaign:

▶ [ http://is.gd/gwiaHE/Ottoman_Turkish_campaign_on_Cyprus_1570/71 ].

basheer



Joined: 22/12/2008
Posts: 949

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 19:46

interesting thanks

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 19:53

Is it true that Turkish troops where given accomodation in Turkish Cyprus after winning the battle,

Grey.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 20:06

RE msg 3, greylag: Yes. The surviving Ottoman Turkish soldiers who wished to stay in Cyprus (only 120.000 - there were 80.000 casualties, mainly during the siege of Famagusta) were rewarded with land, a house, some cattle and equipment to farm the land.

Circa 1000 soldiers became the first Cypriot Turks; the rest of the army set sail for Istanbul.

In the next decades the Ottoman Sultan (Selim II, "the Sod") forced farmers and craftsmen in villages on the opposing coast to emigrate to Cyprus with their families. There's is documentation in Ottoman Turkish (very different from modern Turkish) that in certain villages "every tenth family had to emigrate for ever - the punishment on leaving the island was death".

Hope this answers your question?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 20:11

I should rephrase this line "The surviving Ottoman Turkish soldiers who wished to stay in Cyprus (only 120.000 - there were 80.000 casualties, mainly during the siege of Famagusta) were rewarded with land, a house, some cattle and equipment to farm the land."



The surviving Ottoman Turkish soldiers (only 120.000 - there were 80.000 casualties, mainly during the siege of Famagusta), who wished to stay in Cyprus, were rewarded with land, a house, some cattle and equipment to farm the land.

Sorry for the confusion.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 20:27

Ex pats probably also realise the blinding obvious:

The mere fact of being born as a Turkish Cypriot gives those people the right to exist in Cyprus without any negative historical context of their descendancy. Those that grew up in places where there were people speaking both Greek and Turkish invariably became bilingual.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 20:34

RE msg 6, brother: (...) without any negative historical context of their descendancy. (...)

▶ Is this about my text or graphic? Where is the negativity..?! I gave historical facts - as always.

RE msg 6, brother: (...) Those that grew up in places where there were people speaking both Greek and Turkish invariably became bilingual. (...)

▶ That's just one aspect of daily life. Another one is that there have been very few intermarriages throughout the centuries.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 20:43

If European historians accept Ionians (originally from central Anatolia), Minoans (native occupants of Crete) Achaeans, Mycenaean civilization, Macedonians, Thraceans are all falcely addressed as Greeks(!) by virtue of having their homelands in a country known as Greece, then by the same reasoningthere is no question but the natives of todays Turkey had occupied and/or lived in Cyprus many hundreds of years before them!

Long before Minoan speaking traders started to settle on the island, the place was occupied by the Egyptian and Hitite Empires for centuries.

Now, the Hitites occupied Cappadocia in present day Turkey (4000 BC), hence they were just as Turkish, as the other island civilisations were Greeks by virtue of having their homelands in today's Greece! THEREFORE, if anything Cyprus must have always been a Turkish occupied island! Or indeed, Egyptian!

Better still, Sumerians living in Anatolia were also alleged to have expanded into Cyprus during 6000-7000 BC.

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 20:44

Thanks for all the info Dutch Crusader,

Grey.

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 21:07

BigOz is quite right. 'Turk' is just a convenient term for many historical races that has become appallingly misused over the years.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 21:28

And... Just to remind some very ungrateful Greek Orthodox symphatisers! A well known but little spoken fact is; Before Ottomans came the Greek Orthodox church in Cyprus was at the point of extinction! The GOC was banned by the Catholic Venetians. The whole of island was about to be converted to Catholic religion had it not been for the Ottoman invasion. Ottomans being the only empire at the time who showed respect to different religions and cultures, reinstated the Greek Orthodox Church, and in fact elected a Greek Ortodox priest to be the head of community in Cyprus! Far from what mainland Greeks had done/have been doing to Muslim miority in Thrace after the collapse of the Otoman Empire.

As for Greeks and Turks - I think we have the same blood anyway, except we speak different languages. We all look so much alike that there must be some kind of genetic relationship. Well, Greece was also part of Ottoman Empire and occupied by the randy Ottomans for more than 200 years! What?...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 21:35

I think the decisive point to make is that the Ottoman Turkish conquerors of Cyprus (1570/1) didn't see or treat the local, 100% Greek speaking population as Turks or Turkish.



P.S. brother & bigOz: No misunderstanding here, please - facts are facts, but my sympathy in daily life is completely on the side of TRNC and the Cypriot Turks.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/01/2011 21:41

RE msg 11, bigOz: (...) Before Ottomans came the Greek Orthodox church in Cyprus was at the point of extinction! The GOC was banned by the Catholic Venetians. (...)

▶ What is your source for this statement? The Greek Orthodox church in Cyprus was treated as a second-class church (by the Lusignans and the Venetians) - and forcibly subjected to the Roman Catholic church, the pope - but "almost extinct" and "banned"?

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 00:26

"After the establishment of Kingdom of Cyprus the Catholic kings gradually reduced the number of Orthodox bishops from 14 to 4 and forced those away from their towns. The archbishop was moved from Nicosia to the region of Solia, near Morphou, the bishop of Larnaca was moved to the village of Lefkara etc. Each orthodox bishop was under the Catholic bishop of the area. The Catholic Church tried on occasion to force the Orthodox bishops to make concessions on the differences in doctrine and practices between the two churches, sometimes with threats and sometimes using violence and torture, as in the case of the 13 monks in Kantara. Moreover the properties of many monasteries were confiscated. The persecutions, especially during the Frankish period, did not succeed in uprooting the faith of the Orthodox Greek Cypriots.

The Franks were succeeded by the Venetians in 1489 without any significant change to the status of the Orthodox Church."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Cyprus

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 00:41

About.com - Cyprus Historical setting;

"In religious matters, Lusignan was tolerant of the Cypriot adherence to Orthodoxy, but his brother Amaury, who succeeded him, showed no such liberality, and the stage was set for a protracted struggle, which dominated the first half of the Lusignan period. At issue was the paramountcy of the Roman Catholic Church over the Orthodox church. Latin sees were established at Famagusta, Limassol, Nicosia, and Paphos; land was appropriated for churches; and authority to collect tithes was granted to the Latins. The harshness with which the Latin clergy attempted to gain control of the Church of Cyprus exacerbated the uneasy relationship between Franks and Cypriots. In 1260 Pope Alexander IV issued the Bulla Cypria, declaring the Latin church to be the official church of Cyprus, forcing the Cypriot clergy to take oaths of obedience, and claiming the right to all titles." (cont)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 00:55

(cont)

"The papal ordinance had no more effect than the constant persecution or the frequent visits of high-ranking papal legates sent to convert the islanders"

I must admit, they did not succeed in destroying the Orthodox faith - but the way I see it - they had a good try. It was an assumption on my part that, had Cyprus stayed Venetian, it would have ended up as an Italian outpost during the centuries to come. Who knows what the the fascist rulers of Italy would have had in mind for the Greek Orthodox on the island. Although not officially "banned", the persecutions were just as good if not a worse faith for the Orthodox...

No offence taken DutchCrusader. I was also pointing out to some historic facts. But sometimes cannot help thinking "whose facts?". History of the world has been narrated (raped!) by Western historians in line with their Emparialist and Colonialist claims, as well as their religion. Often making false claims and assumptions to smear many parts of it!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 15:30

RE msg 14-15 & 16, bigOz: 1 : You may well know that the sources you give contain a wealth of (mis)information. All history texts on wikipedia.com and about.com are suspect (imo) IF the historical (preferably temporary) source(s) is (are) not given.

2 : We agree now that the Greek Orthodox Church (GOC) was not "banned". 3 : We also agree that (members of) the GOC was persecuted and the situation was often far from "Christian" or humane. 4 : Sic : "History of the world has been narrated (raped!) by Western historians in line with their Emparialist and Colonialist claims, as well as their religion." My opinion differs here from yours. I've read the works of the best historians since the Ottoman Turkish conquest of Cyprus (1570/71) - including translated work of (Ottoman) Turkish historians. It gives me - I think - a pretty good idea what and why it happened. I wish you a good day and the TRNC all the best for today and for years to come!

P.S. A pleasure to discuss with you!

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/01/2011 20:50

Pleasure to discuss with you too DC!

I had not learned about the faith of GOC in Wikipedia or About .com, They come on top when one google the info to get some referance material to support the argument. I must admit, Wikipedia is not always accurate with political and historical issues.

But I was not referring to Otoman History when commenting on the reshaping of world history by the West. Also,Let me give you just one good example:

All Western historians and history books display Cengiz Khan as Mongolian! A Mongolian leader who apparently recruited the Turks on horseback to fight his wars all the way into Europe, from Central Asia. So accordingly, Mongols were the masters of Turks.

If you look at some Eastern and especially those of the Turkish historians version, he was no more a Mongol than the Americans Indians were Mexicans. Maybe I should start a separate thread for this, but try reading:

http://www.biyografi.info/kisi/cengiz-han

and you will understand what I mean...

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/01/2011 11:44

Some readers may find this link interesting:

▶ [ http://www.cyprusdownload.nl/index_1.html ]

Click on the web page: • 10 - The Ottoman Conquest of Cyprus (1): Invasion, siege and fall of Nicosia

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
27/01/2011 11:48

Hans,



Fascinating stuff,thanks for sharing it with 44,

Paul.

stevo-london


Joined: 23/10/2010
Posts: 253

Message Posted:
27/01/2011 12:27

WOW definately interesting and something alot of the cypriots aint even aware of