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Maintenance Charges

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The butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
22/09/2008 21:05

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Message 1 of 11 in Discussion

Hi All,



I know this subject has been covered before but I am busy compiling a list of the charges on different sites around the Esentepe - Tatlisu areas. I visited Turtle Bay and Sea Terra Bay and took some beautiful photographs of the pools and landscaping on these sites. If someone on either site could contact me with the information I need, I would appreciate it.



The Butlers wife



keith


Joined: 03/04/2007
Posts: 272

Message Posted:
22/09/2008 22:33

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Message 2 of 11 in Discussion

what info do you require and for what purpose

Keith



The butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
22/09/2008 23:56

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Message 3 of 11 in Discussion

Hi Keith,



The reason I am trying to get this information is nothing sinister. On the site where we have our property we pay extremely high maintenance charges. We are doing a monthly newsletter and I have been asked to take some photographs of other sites and the maintenance owners pay. We are trying to make some comparisons to see if we are being grossly overcharged. I took some really lovely photos and I was particularly impressed with Turtle Bay and Sea Terra Bay, so if you feel you can help. email me off board.



The Butlers wife.



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
23/09/2008 10:09

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Message 4 of 11 in Discussion

Perhaps I can help a little on this, first you have to take into account how many pools are involved as nearly all management firms contract out the pool cleaning side of things, which is expensive in itself if you want it done properly, then you need to work out how many properties are actually sold and how many staff you will need to run the site (minimum wage goes up annually)before you can fix a monthly charge as a rule of thumb they fall into four categorys very large (over400 properties) large (250/400) medium (150/250) and then the smaller ones, the larger the complex strangely enough the cheaper the fees should be, some firms charge differing amounts depending on how big or small your apartment/villa is, but this seems strange to me as the fee is set for the maintenance of the public areas of the site and should not be based on size of property, this should be a seperate entity where the owner enters into an agreement with a management company to maintain and clean their property based on its size and to be charged accordingly.

Prices vary in other ways as well, some charge a set fee for communal electricity and sewage plant maintenance, some charge these bills split equally among all owners, some just put it in the annual charge.

Some sites offer living accommodation for workers so this helps with keeping costs down.

To give some examples of charges site A 50/65 monthly 400+ homes, site B 250 homes 60/70 monthly site C 80 ish homes 90 month, these are approximate or actual charges levied on some of the sites in the area you specified.

Please do not ask me for anything more specific on the board as everyone has differing ideas on this subject, suffice to say that this persons wife worked for one of the firms who specialise in this kind of work until recently so knows a lot about the trials and tribulations of trying to find a middle ground and trying to please people, she has been riddiculed, shouted at, sworn at FREQUENTLY threatened by irate clients (mostly English) and much more, no wonder she left.



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
23/09/2008 10:16

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Message 5 of 11 in Discussion

I should think the thinking behind charging more for a three bed than a studio apartment is that it has the capacity to accomodate more people and more people cause more mess and therefore more work and therefore more expenriture. Similar to why in the U.K council tax is more for a mansion than a bed-sit.



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
23/09/2008 13:20

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Message 6 of 11 in Discussion

One person who is of a mind can also make a lot of mess and we dont have a council tax here so in this writers opinion it is not applicable on a complex, as council tax is a completely separate issue, that is a govenment tax which is banded and several different types of property are banded together some can have more facilities or sleeping accommodation than others, but public space is public space, is public space, and everyone in my opinion should pay equal amounts - but as stated in my original post everyone has different ideas. phew!!



mickey rourke


Joined: 27/08/2008
Posts: 157

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 07:00

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Message 7 of 11 in Discussion

the one thing for sure butler is that where you get a load of English buying together on a complex (sorry next to each other, not together) you will always have very differing views and differing expectations and plenty arguments and plenty saying they wont pay for this reason or that, just look at what is happening to Sea terra at the mo, a small group are trying to get a hard working lady chucked out, it goes on everywhere and does no bliddy good at all.

Punk rocker very informative post but where did you get your idea the bigger the site the cheaper the charges



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 07:21

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Message 8 of 11 in Discussion

Butler's wife...



You also have to take into account not what the maintenance charges start our at... but what they get increased to shortly after the site is fully sold.. you see it's good PR to keep them low all the time the developers are trying to sell communal villas/apartments so that prospective buyers are not discouraged. However once the site is fully sold/occupied it's often a different story. As per Medview where the charges increased astronomically I understand... so when doing your homework take this into consideration.



punk rocker


Joined: 24/07/2008
Posts: 152

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 11:35

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Message 9 of 11 in Discussion

Well said Groucho, it is wise to get a minimum of two year guaranteed price fix, the more reputable companies usually do this, but remember that its often the other things that go up EG communal electric, sewage and water, maintenance charges usually exclude these.and no management company will guarantee to hold these prices, unfortunately it is a sign of the times we are living in.

I have it from an associate that a company reccommended on the board are contracted to look after the small complex he has two apartments on at Bahceli, they gave a maintenance fee to the owners and they accepted it, then they subsequently sent out bills to the owners for a share of the materials required to landscape the area.

Mickey, if you have a complex of 400 houses at say 55 a month maintenance, thats almost 255K the work force required is probably 10/12 full timers at average wages of 7K per annum = 84K, materials etc. in first year maybe 100K Pools maybe 5 at 360 a month each 22K, that leaves an approximate profit of 50K, I know this is a simplistic formula but compare with a complex of 150 houses at the same price

130x 55 per month = 86K, 5 workers at 7K = 35k, materials etc = 25K, three pools at 360 per month = 22K Leaves a profit of only 4K

Not worth the hassle is it on a small complex unless you can share the staff over two or three places or you put the fees up to maybe 75 then you get a decent profit in the year of 35K, All of this assuming that there are no major problems with equipment, plant etc.

Hope this is helpful

Dave



ROBnJO


Joined: 30/06/2008
Posts: 1289

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 18:44

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Message 10 of 11 in Discussion

Butlers wife,



I am not on a complex with service charges, but I do have experience in the UK, which the TRNC Legal system is supposedly 'loosely' based upon.



It is quite normal for a developer to quote very reasonable service charges during the selling phase. Once the development is fully sold, it is normal for the developer to sell the Freehold/Ground Rent interest to a third party. They will be a Company looking to making reasonable profits.



This is often when service charges escalate.



In the UK any L/H or SOF owners have the right, usually with 75%+ agreement, to apply to take over the management of the development. This can effect massive savings.

It does require a residents committee to be set up and provide annual accounts. You are then in control of all expenditure, insurance etc.



One of the other matters to consider is whether the service charges are enough to create a 'sinking fund' which is basically a reserve fund for any major expenditure in the future.

For example, if a communal pool requires rebuilding, or a number of units require major remedial work, is there enough in the 'sinking fund', or will all owners be asked to make a possibly major capital contribution.





It might be an idea to check any contracts of sale you have to determine if you have a legal right to take over the management.



I'm happy to give more advice, but as said, can only refer to UK law.





rob



The butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
24/09/2008 23:25

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Message 11 of 11 in Discussion

Hi All,



Thank you all for trying to answer my query regarding maintenance charges, I now have the information I was looking for.



The Butlers wife



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