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RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
04/10/2008 14:22

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Message 1 of 35 in Discussion

Is it possible to sell my property as i have not yet had a title deed, will it make it difficult or impossible. Not had any info from my lawyer yet.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/10/2008 14:44

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Message 2 of 35 in Discussion

A very good question. The simple answer is yes if you can find someone like you to pay in full without actually gtting the title deeds



ok, that was a flippant answer and I admit not much help. Now the serious response:



1. Are the title deeds available for the property in its current state? i.e. if it is a house on an estate, are the title deeds ready for each house?



2. Are the title deed owners ready and willing to cooperate? If yes, its plane sailing. You get your money and the buyer signs a new sale contract with the owners.



3. What happens if the actual owners are not willing to cooperate unless you pay them so much to persuade them to coopeate? Believe me an excuse can always be found as a reason to ask for more. If there is no agreement and no cooperation, you have two options:

a) you sue the owners to sign a Power of Attorney to your lawyer or someone suitable to do the codntract or alternatively to pay you compenstion in breach of the Sale Agreement you signed with them.



b) You can have an assignment agreement with the new buyer and assign your interest in the house to him. Unfortunately the DLO will not register such an agreement. As the law states, only agreements between the owners and the buyers can be registered. Furthermore, the courts and lawyers have absolutely no experience in such cases and thus they can come up with some real gems, anybodys guess. So I will not advise anybody to get into such an agreement.



ismet



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
04/10/2008 15:27

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Message 3 of 35 in Discussion

thanks for the helpful info Ismet, the house is one of twelve on a new developement built by a fairly large developer and all are finished and sold, some for a second time(resale) but i dont think anyone has a title deed or a PTP as of yet. i am the first owner of the house from new and have owned it two years now but like i said heard nothing of the progress in getting any of the paperwork. i paid the stamp duty a year ago.



neil27


Joined: 16/07/2008
Posts: 93

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 11:41

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Message 4 of 35 in Discussion

It seems to me that many people buy without getting hold of the title deeds at the same time. My understanding, possibly incorrect, is that you have to apply for permission to purchase before you can apply for the Kocan. The PTP (which has to be for a specific property and not a generic permission) seems to take months or years to go through - so how can you possibly have the deeds at the same time as you part with the cash for the purchase?



The butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 11:57

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Message 5 of 35 in Discussion

Hi Redsnapper,



As neil27 rightly says, you should have a permission to purchase no. This number can be obtained from your lawyer and then you are responsible for tracking it at the government office Tel no 3926111127. However, as long as there is no mortgage on your land by the developer and he places no obstacles in your way. Then selling without either ptp or the deeds should not be a problem.



The Butlers wife



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 12:11

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Message 6 of 35 in Discussion

Neil27,



You have correctly identified the problem of buying in the TRNC. Some people bought in 2004 and still do not have their title deed or permission to purchase.



neil27


Joined: 16/07/2008
Posts: 93

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 14:00

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Message 7 of 35 in Discussion

The butler's wife,



Previous posts certainly agree with your analysis, but also suggest that obtaining a PTP from your solicitor is often anything but straightforward and usually seems to take a number of years(?) fro no real reason. Do you know of a short way to get PTP?



The butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 15:08

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Message 8 of 35 in Discussion

Hi neil27,



It is not your solicitor who issues your ptp but a government office who have to get permission from the military. Your solicitor should have applied for this for you in your original payment but it is up to you to get the number from them and to track it yourself. Who knows if you have had your property for more than 2 years, you may already have it. Some people wait longer than this and there doesn't seem to be any set time as to how long you will wait. I don't think there is any fast track system, even if you offer to pay. Some owners on our site have received theirs, whilst I am still waiting but just keep phoning and they get to know you.



The Butlers wife



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 15:15

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Message 9 of 35 in Discussion

I know of one case who did the right thing. They found a land that they wanted to build a house on. They bought the land and had the title deeds registered in the name of a Turkish Cypriot friend who they coud trust. Then every 3-6 months they came to Cyprus and visited the office for PTP and put the pressure on them. The permission was obtained in 18 months, now they got the title deeds in their own names and is about to start building the house.

ismet



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 19:52

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Message 10 of 35 in Discussion

hi elko2

i have recently been told that a new gov rule is that you cannot sell your house until you have had the title deeds in your name for 3 years. this only applies to expats. have you any knowledge of this?



neil27


Joined: 16/07/2008
Posts: 93

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 22:35

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Message 11 of 35 in Discussion

Hi elko2,



I notice the need for a cypriot friend to cicumvent the PTP problem. I can't see how this could possibly be the right thing - surely you ought to be able to purchase property in your own name even if you are from another country.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:14

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Message 12 of 35 in Discussion

Firestarter,

What you heard is absolutely false, no ifs or buts about it.



Neil27,

TRNC is not the only place in the world where foreigners require PTP. Similarly, there are many countries in the world where you a need a visa to enter. Many countries where foreigners need a work permit to work. Nobody has a divine right to do what they like in whatever country they like. Another 100 years or so and we may get to that stage.

ismet



cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
05/10/2008 23:46

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Message 13 of 35 in Discussion

Ismet is 100% correct in his summation about other countries. Try getting into USA or Australia for example to do what you do here. I know for fact you would not even get into Austalia to live without passing a long test criteria. I for one would fail!!



Maybe TRNC have it wrong and they should bring in similar stringent tests before people are allowed to live here???



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 17:51

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Message 14 of 35 in Discussion

elko2

are you 100% sure on that? as i have that on pretty good authority.

was told it last week from someone who works in the kimlik office. i think it was a new law that they either had just brought in or were bringing in?



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 18:07

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Message 15 of 35 in Discussion

Fire starter. Ismet is definately right. You don't have to wait 3 years.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 22:27

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Message 16 of 35 in Discussion

Msg7: "Do you know of a short way to get PTP?"



If you or your agent know the right contact you may be able to hurry things along for an extra "payment". In 2001 a 50 payment got a permit issued in about eight weeks.



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 22:36

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Message 17 of 35 in Discussion

sounds great, can anyone lend me 50 kwid?



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/10/2008 23:30

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Message 18 of 35 in Discussion

Private Pike,

You are at it again slandering the civil service with your allegations of bribery. I have never paid any bribes in TRNC nor ever asked for but obviously there must be some around. However I do know that it is very widespread in the civil service in the south.



Firestarter,

Even if the goernment wanted to pass such a law they would not know how to do it properly. Not an easy task to legistlate it like that. It is impossible.

ismet



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 10:50

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Message 19 of 35 in Discussion

apparently if you did sell within 3 years you would get some kind of hefty taxation from what i understood. think we will just have to wait and see!



RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 21:59

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Message 20 of 35 in Discussion

don`t you get the first property sale CGT free or is that even more sales spin?



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 12:18

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Message 21 of 35 in Discussion

i think so red snapper.

i'm not sure re the new info i had recently, if it is a new law or about to be, or just being considered. this was told to me by some very good friends with family in some high up places.

we have to see our lawyer next week, so i will ask him if he knows anything. it may not be a new law but a new taxation rule? i rearly don't know.



whitemad


Joined: 26/05/2007
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 14:19

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Message 22 of 35 in Discussion

Good luck to those who actually get their deeds our PTP came in last Jan and the builder is demanding 1000 just to sign them over. No other reason and no guarantee it will happen. Lawyers are no help they just shrug their shoulders and stalemate!



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 15:54

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Message 23 of 35 in Discussion

Re. msg.22

Whitemad,

Wht do you expect the lawyer to do in such a situation? Any suggestions how they can be of any help please? Ok, we may ask them to stop shrugging their shoulders, any other suggestions please?

ismet



jock1



Joined: 06/01/2008
Posts: 3786

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 16:00

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Message 24 of 35 in Discussion

he should stand in his client's corner and do the worthwhile thing and stop milking us.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 16:06

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Message 25 of 35 in Discussion

Can you elaborate please about doing the worthwhile thing, exactly what should he or she do?

ismet



whitemad


Joined: 26/05/2007
Posts: 44

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 17:11

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Message 26 of 35 in Discussion

Possibly liaised with the builder on our behalf without asking for additional money?????? Would be a good start.



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 18:04

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Message 27 of 35 in Discussion

In my view it is not the lawyers job to go and beg the builders on behalf of the buyers to do something. The lawyers are there to enforce the law and thus force the builder to abide by the contract. As long as the Specific Performance Law is not repealed this is just not possible.



It is no good and not productive to blame the lawyers for somethinbg they are not responsible for. I hear so often complaints about lawyers for the delay in PTP when in fact they have no say in the matter and they are not responsible for the chaotic way the Interior ministry deals with such applications. However I do know that sometimes they try to shift the blame by saying "Your lawyer did not show any interest in your application" and the gullible ones are ready to accept their word and blame their lawyers.



If you wish to put things right you have to concentrate your efforts in the right direction and stop putting the blame on anyone and everyone you can think about. Did you sign the petition about



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 18:06

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Message 28 of 35 in Discussion

Ctd.

the Specific Performance law? Now I have the results printed and I am waiting for an appointment from President Talat to present him the signatures together with Marian Stoke and Sibelle who worked so hard on the petition lately.

ismet



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 18:17

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Message 29 of 35 in Discussion

Hi Ismet. How many signatures did you manage to get in the end?



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 18:27

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Message 30 of 35 in Discussion

1195 on the internet plus a few collected on paper

ismet



come_on_aylin


Joined: 14/06/2008
Posts: 908

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 18:46

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Message 31 of 35 in Discussion

This is the email address for chasing up your P2P application info@trncproperty.eu . Put the application number in the headline and the names of the applicants in the body. You can also ask what stage it is at and how long it has been at that stage. With the military is a common reply.



You should get a reply after a few days.



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 09:04

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Message 32 of 35 in Discussion

whitemad

get your lawyer to check your contract and take action against the builder if they can. you should never default on a contract what ever the other party has done.



failing that ,see if a cypriot friend can speak with the builder and sort out what ever the problem is.

at all times be nice, getting angry wont help! or get you anywhere in cyprus!



newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 20:17

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Message 33 of 35 in Discussion

Elko 2,

my neighbour has his ptp and his builder is ready to transfer the kojan. His advocate is asking 1200 to facilitate this. Am I correct in saying that it is fairly straightforward though possibly time consuming for the neighbour to do this himself or is he better off stumping up the readies? Any advice would be appreciated please.



Newscoop



elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 20:28

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Message 34 of 35 in Discussion

Newscoop,

If everythibg is really ready the easiest way is to see one of the chaps who hang around the Land Registry Offices and they will do it for about 50 quid. Would you care to name the gready lawyer? If you come under Famagusta District, I can recommend you a very honest and reasonable chap for the job.

ismet



newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:26

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Message 35 of 35 in Discussion

Thanks Ismet, see other thread.



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