What is happening to the UK?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 11:45

What is happening to the UK? In the last couple of years we have had government ministers committing adultery, to inappropriate funding, to not telling the truth, paedophiles getting more or less a slap on the wrist and political correctness gone mad. All I seem to see now is who can shock us the most. Whether it is by drugs, sexual content or sexual abuses and violence. We used to be a proud and moral country, now we seem to be an embarrassment. One thing is certain though we are continuing on a downward spiral. There doesn’t seem to be any moral or ethical standards left. Stabbing is today's common place thing. How many youngsters have been stabbed this year and why are these people committing these crimes? Why bother working when housing is free and they send you a benefit cheque every month. Even better why not send someone to prison where they can get a degree if they behave themselves, forget about the victim, and don't you dare violate their human rights while they are in prison or they will sue you. If you broke the law you used to be punished; now you are rewarded with what they call rehabilitation. Recession yes we are in a recession – a moral and ethical recession.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 11:55

No1Doyen,



As usual very much to the point.



At this point in time add to your comments," Financial Meltdown". RBS share down 30%.



All major banks talking to the Government with their begging bowls. Unless some confidence returns to the markets, many of the points in your posting, will be little more than a distant

memory.



Serious Serious times! Time to roll out our prayermats!



wyn

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 12:05

Too much pc, too many do-gooders, too many damn socialists!

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 12:10

Doyen,



I'm surprised to see that kind of post coming from you. You're not old enough for the "why oh why" stuff yet. You do seem to be serious though, so if it's any consolation I remember my folks coming out with the same "country going to the dogs" stuff in the 1980s - while blaming it all on the freedoms of the 1950s and 1960s. And as for the late 1970s punk movement - that was the end of society. But we're all still here. T'was ever the case...

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 12:10

Chessman,



That was very much to the point, as well.



wyn

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 12:27

PP



I think it is a question of degree. Some of Doyen's examples, of course, applied to the decades you referred to and some are 'new'. The alarming aspect is the deterioration and acceleration of the breakdown of the social fabric of society. (omg I just used management speak!)



Anyway bring back the birch and give them all a jolly good thrashing!

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 12:32

There is very little moral structure in the UK, I am appalled at how low some people will sink and the lack of justice dished out for the misdeeds.

Respect for others is sadly lacking, respect for authority is a thing of the past, responsibility for raising children has moved from parents to teachers or Government, discipline is a no no and human rights rules ok.

The sad thing is that people who dare to voice their concerns are classed as old fashioned and out of touch, it appears that life experience is to be mocked and not valued.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 13:14

hattikens, your last statement is so true - unfortunately.



PP, I suppose it is an age thing (I'm not that old!). You do start to worry more as you get older especially for your children and grandchildren. I don't stress all the time over this, just starting to become a little scary what is happening to the world. I remember back to when I was a child and it seems so many things are falling apart compared to back then. I think sometimes some people think everything will just turn out okay. We might be ok in our lifetime, but what about the future generations?

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 14:02

Hattikins..the discipline factor has dissapeared altogether. Take schools e.g no cane for any rude remarks like we used to get,instead we have "detention" big deal,so they have to stay on for an extra half hour,where is the deterent factor in that. Isuppose the future generations will end like you see in some of these early sciece fiction films,walking around holding hands with a blank stare on there faces.Lets hope someone inthe not todistant future has the guts to stand up and rectify the situation. well thats my little rant for this morning hope I didnt offend any one but Ihappen to believe in corporal punishment when it is warranted....

denali2007


Joined: 04/01/2008
Posts: 111

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 14:58

It all went to the dogs when National service was scrapped!! I can't pretend that I would want my son to have to go into the forces in todays climate - but at least it taught them how to accept orders and know that you had to do as you were told or else. They learned respect - something that is sadly lacking in all age groups today.

Only my opinion of course, and I stand ready to be shot down in flames.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 16:39

I'm inclined to agree with the reinstatement of National Service. However, I think Moral and Ethical teachings should start at home with the parents.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 16:50

Those in favour of national service don't have at heart the best interests of our armed forces or national defence. Recruitment levels and personal qualities of trainees are bad enough as it is without bringing in unwilling teenagers. IMO we're better off as we are making up numbers from Africa and the Caribbean where we can get excellent people.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 17:19

PP. You forgot to put a smiley after your post.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 17:51

Actually, I was serious that time.



http://www.victoriacross.org.uk/bbbeharr.htm

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 19:07

Pte Pike..I was serving at time the National Service was coming to an end and Ifound that these personel were very well trained and quite alot signed on for an extra year to get the extra pay,and Iam sure it would be the same today. A couple of years in the military would not do any one any harm,but it crtainly teaches them respect for authority..which,as has already been mentioned,is sadly lacking today...

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 19:21

How anyone can question the qualities of the brave young people who are facing danger in Iraq and Afghanistan is beyond me, they are dealing with real enemies, not just the type of folk who may come into contact with a Special Constable.

I would have thought you would need to be amongst them in the line of fire before you could comment on the qualities of those involved but PP as usual makes derogatory remarks without knowing the facts.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 19:35

Now I have to come to the defence of Pikey....



Hattikins are you deliberately misreading his post?



He in no way made any disparaging remarks about the current serving forces..



He was saying adding consrcipts to their numbers would not help them do their job... which is very different.



You choose to try and score a point when none is there to be had...

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 20:49

Agreed Groucho. This is typical where certain posters like Pt Pike are concerned, if they have posted it must be wrong.



I used to have the view of bring back conscription but as Pikey sort of says, if we had NS now perhaps we would have been a lot worse off in Iraq and Afghanistan than we actually are.



So come on Hattikins, please read the post and apologise for your misinterpretation of it.

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 22:04

Message 12 states " personal qualities of trainees are bad enough as it is ", so what is that saying.

If I have misread the posting then of course I apologise.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 22:17

Getting back to the original post.Its not only the u.k. thats in the mire its practically the world over.Cant honestly see how you could blame this one on the socialists it has to be the get rich quick im allright jack bankers.Those low lifers who make money at others expense The whole banking system needs looking at.Why not take some advice from the Irish.

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 22:22

No 1 Doyen,

Take the right for parents to bring up their own children!

Encourage both parents to work, leaving children to be bought up by others,

Encourage family units without a male role model.

Divorce at will.



Have a social security system , that is the envy of the world.

Allow unrestricted immigration.

A Health service FREE at the point of need.



Have a Government that spends beyond its means, and incomes, then allow them to spend BILLIONS further on PFI debts (off balance sheet) leaving 30 years of debts to be repaid.

That imposes £5 Billion annually of stealth taxes on pensions income.

That taxes house sales (often enforced) of up to 5% of the value, when people most need the money.

That tax your lifetimes savings at 82% of your pension pot, when you reach 75, if you wish to leave it to your relatives.

That imposes a Prime Minister on the Nation, that has never had a mandate to rule.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 22:34

RANT Part 2



That allows people trafficking for prostitution.

That allows gun crime as part of the Yardie drug coulture.

That fails to have a prison build to cope with these forseeable circumstances.



and I will show you..........

Rivers of blood...........Enoch Powell

Mass emigration.

A Nation destroyed.



With sincere appologies to Phylray and Hattikins, honourable people who uphold standards

that we should all strive to achieve.



Ladies and Gentlemen......I give you The Right Honourables Tony Blair and Gordon Brown

not to mention The Prince Of Darkness Peter Mandleson. Architects of NEW LABOUR.



Thank you for your attention....................RANT OVER......and you wionder why I drink!



wyn

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 22:38

People have very short memories.What about the lowest inflation we have experienced for years.The lowest unemployment.The biliions that has been spent on hospitals.The lowest mortgage rates.Take off the blinkers and think how good we have had it for the last 15 years.Of course things are going to be hard.Time to tighten our belts stop whingeing and get on with it.See you on the picket line lol,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 22:56

Paul,



It wasnt low inflation....People were living off borrowed money.



It wasnt low unemployment, Government jobs that cost more to create, than revenue generated.



Hospitals....PFI DEBT...The Tories will be paying for these for the next 30 years.



110% mortgages.........ask Lehman Brothers, Bradford and Bingley, Northern Rock



Oh I forgot Paul you are from Hull...Home of John Prescott Deputy Prime Minister......



now what was he doing while Westminster was burning?



Now Paul this is a public forum........but what Prescott was doing to his secretary ( a married woman) the rest of his honourable colleagues were doing similar, to This Great British Nation.



I will buy you that Efes when we meet and we will discuss it. I will bring the black pudding.



You will need its strengthening qualities, when the truth sets in.



wyn

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 23:17

Its a bit like Theoden, King of Rohan peering over the parapet at Helms Deep at the huge army of murderous orcs and muttering,



"How did it come to this?"



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkx6_qvwemE



Lem

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 23:25

Hi Lem,



I just love your humour! Never let reality distort your views of life!



I prefer Efes!



wyn

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 23:33

Got to say wyn you have most spot on in your last two posts.



People just cannot see how the last 11 years of Labour government have lead to this disaster. Borrow, Borrow, Borrow!!! The UK will be paying for next 30 years and by then will have sunk to the 4th world power I mentioned earlier.



As for Chief Steward Prescott or 2 Jags!!!! There is a small story from a visit to Hull. He made a good show of getting on a train in Hull for return to London. At Brough Station the train was stopped and he got in his Jag for rest of journey!!!! Being a small station the powers in charge thought the press would not notice!!!! Shows the mentallity.



Right now I wish I could remember the quote of the great Enoch Powell where the quote you use above came from. Having read his autobiog. right now I feel daft, but that quote was part of one sentence in a long speach and as usual with quotes is always taken out of context.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 23:44

CIH.



I know what you are trying to recall, but for PC reasons I cannot repeat it on this board.



How times have changed!



wyn

hattikins


Joined: 17/02/2008
Posts: 2793

Message Posted:
07/10/2008 23:54

Please don,t feel you need to apologise to me Wyn, we are all entitled to our own opinions and I do understand some of your frustration although I may not always agree with your way of thinking, it wouldn,t do for us all to be the same.

As for the state of the UK, I just feel that through good times or bad we should all show respect and consideration for each other in every way possible, I,m sure if people felt better about the society that we live in we would be better able to cope with the present crisis and even see a light at the end of the tunnel.

I may be living in a dream world but wouldn,t it be nice if we could treat each other as we would like to be treated ourselves, and bring up future generations the same by setting the boundaries and caring enough about the children to enforce them. If we don,t set out rules to bring out the best in our young ones then how do they know we care about them and what example are we setting. Off my soapbox now.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 00:33

Hattikins,



I remain Mam, your obedient servant.



Sleep well,



wyn

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 12:57

Saw this item today:



United Kingdom: A cancer patient given 11 months to live by doctors has been pronounced fit for work and has had his incapacity payment stopped by the Department for Work and Pensions.

56-year-old Keith Arden was called in for a medical shortly after he had a cancerous kidney removed and pronounced fit despite the fact that there were test results pending. He was told he was terminal by doctors just days later.

When he approached the Department for Work and Pensions he was informed that his appeal may not be decided for 9 months.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 13:02

No! Doyen,



These characters just leave you speechless!

Now a single mother with 5 children?



wyn

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 13:40

hi doyan,

this was what happened to my dad.

he was about 50 years old when one morning he got out of bed, fell onto the floor and stayed that way for a month. until the doctors could straighten him up again.

his discs in his back had crumbled and he went on to have 2 ops, which still didn't sort him out.

during this time the dhss system doctors assessed him fit for work. his private surgeons went crazy and argued the point, which they won.

he won his case 2 1/2 years after becoming disabled. he lost his business and his house which he sold because he was unable to pay the mortgage.

he ended up in a council flat on a scummy estate.

he was disabled until his death age 60. he was diagnosed with cancer wrongly and given the wrong treatment on the nhs.

finally he died of tb, yes tb contracted in a uk nhs hospital.



that the wonderfull uk system for you!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 15:44

I'm sorry to hear that fire starter. That's absolutely shocking.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 16:54

hi no1 doyen ..My son -in-laws mother is facing the same dilema as your msg 31. Same age etc.had her sick money etc. stopped the dhss and told to find ajob. Like yourself it leaves me absolutely speechless.I find it utterly incredable in todays society that we have morons in places of responsibily that are allowed to make a decision of that magnitude......

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 17:03

Political correctness gone mad. What about their Human Rights? Or does'nt it count if you are sick!

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 17:12

No1Doyen ..It appears you dont have any human rights if you got no money to hire one of these expensive "human rights lawyers" so they done the next best thing.they have filled in the compulsary paperwork to take it to an arbitration tribunal to try to get the decision reversed. Waiting to see the outcome,should there be one...

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 17:40

enoch powell had it spot on with his rivers of blood speech, pity its taken all this time to realise it.No wonder brits are leaving in droves replaced by people who can milk a system so no money i left for those who have paid all thier lives in the hope of having a good old age, sadly if they are ill its a lottery to where they can get treated if at all. You all have valid points and its made interesting reading we will never change it, like Doyeen I fear for the future generation my own grandkids included. My son was made redundant yesterday and its been hard to convience him that it not his fault he is a victim of what is happening worldwide. Lilli

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 17:53

Lilli.



I am really sorry to here about your son and the experiences of Coachie and Firestarter. It's dreadful.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 17:54

Sorry to hear that LILLI. Hope your Son finds something soon.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 17:57

I think this just about sms up the uk today...................





'It's like winning the lottery': Jobless Afghan mother of seven gets £170,000 benefits and lives in £1million council house

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 17:58

I think this just about sms up the uk today...................





'It's like winning the lottery': Jobless Afghan mother of seven gets £170,000 benefits and lives in £1million council house



A family living on benefits in a £1.2 million house in west London told today how they felt they had won the lottery.

Mother-of-seven Toorpakai Saindi gets £170,000 a year in benefits and the council pays the property's private landlord £12,500 a month to accommodate the family who fled Afghanistan seven years ago.

The house in Acton has seven bedrooms, two reception rooms, a dining room and two kitchens, as well as an extensive back garden.

Mrs Saindi's son, Jawad, 20, told the London Evening Standard: "If someone gave you a lottery ticket, would you leave it? No. You take what you get given.

"It's not that we wanted this big house - my mum is not happy because she has to clean all of it. The first day we moved in here we got lost because it was so big."

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 18:00

"It's not that we wanted this big house - my mum is not happy because she has to clean all of it. The first day we moved in here we got lost because it was so big."



I suppose she'll want the council to provide her with a cleaner!

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 18:06

It must be against her " human rights" to have to clean such a big house herself.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 19:26

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse Gordon brings back the Prince of Darkness! Good old Mandy. Twice caught with his hand in the till but seemingly exempt from all the laws of the land in the UK. Last one out please switch off the light!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 19:59

Wish I had the problem of cleaning a big house. I can clean all of mine without moving my feet.



Christmas has come early for the BNP

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 20:53

WE still contribute to the system. How much longer should we tolerate this abuse of our

human rights?



Worried, frightened, poor, disallusioned, saddened.



Wyn UK Resident.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 20:58

NIGE....Careful what you say some one might suggest it to the stupid council who are footing the bill....

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 21:16

No 1 Doyen,



Having just reread your original posting, what the hell in Government makes adultery an indictable offence.



John Major and Edwina Curry.

Paddy Pantsdown and his sec.

Prescott and his sec.



Jees they are just so arrogant, with little regard for the debris that they leave behind.

IS LACK OF MORALITY, A PREREQUISITE FOR HOLDING HIGH OFFICE ?

Little better than animals in my opinion. Their poor spouses.

They should hold their heads in shame!!



wyn

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:03

Wyn, excellent post. Couldn't agree more.

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:14

For all you political animals I can thoroughly recommend Andrew Marr's book "A History of Modern Britain" While the book itself isn't specifically about the subjects we have discussed it is interesting to note how differently scandals were handled years ago. Political failure and sex scandals ALWAYS resulted in the people concerned "falling on their swords" Now scandal doesn't seem to end a persons career as much as enhances it. Maybe this moral malaise is all part of the "Personality Culture" we have nowadays? Being famous seems to outweigh being moral and a worthwile citizen.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:24

Oilman,



I am an avid fan of Private Eye.



A wonderful publication for a person of good humour, who has little regard for the sensibilities

of the modern politician A great publication for the seeker of truth. £29 per annum. An

absolute bargain.



wyn

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:28

I'm a fan myself. Anybody who wants to loan the aforementioned book just ask!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:38

Oilman,



Be careful! Some of these wingeing brits might be forced to smile, if they saw more reality, and less spin. Welcome aboard!



wyn

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:41

Maybe that is also a modern malaise? You know presentation over content. Can you imagine Clem Attlee, widely considered by political experts to have been our best ever Prime Minister, operating in today's image obsessed media?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:47

Oilman,



Our Supreme Leader has total control of the media. Now that is what I call a politician!



He has no need to be appointed by a majority vote. A divine right? Give me strength!



wyn

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:52

There's and old political maxim "He who controls the media controls the country". Blair did it by getting The Sun newspaper [?] onside and Berlusconi and Sarkozy did it in Italy and France respectively. It has never been more true than now. I am so depressed about all this I think I'm going to have a surfeit of something strong to overcome my grief but before I do I leave you with this thought. It is curious world we live in when we can put a man on the moon but can't manage to get one on top of Ann Widdacombe!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 22:56

Oilman,



I bow in respect to your superior humour. Enjoy whatever it takes to make another tomorrow bearable.



Cheers



wyn

Oilman


Joined: 19/09/2008
Posts: 225

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 23:00

Thank you and may I say how much I have enjoyed our verbal intercourse!!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 23:06

Oilman,



Likewise old boy. Intercourse? Never felt a thing. Must be my age!



wyn

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 23:06

oilman - Ann Wideacombe - perish the thought.



Wyn - great second sentance.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
08/10/2008 23:11

Cyprus 44



Wonderful site for people of slackened wit. A pleasure to post!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 01:43

Wynyardman: "IS LACK OF MORALITY, A PREREQUISITE FOR HOLDING HIGH OFFICE ?"



Is lack of morality acceptable anywhere?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 01:57

Pvt Pike,



Message 62. Welcome aboard!



wyn

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 09:37

Our so called leaders lack virtue and our society lacks morality. Morals are only created by society, religion and our own conscience, that’s why the lack of morals in our society has created more psychopaths, paedophiles, incited racism, terrorism, and bigotry. All this is attributable to lack of morality and ethics.



Just my opinion.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 09:51

No1Doyen,



Absolutely! A handshake, and my word is my bond, is the era that we were bought up in.



Now these attributes are of no value to society, and people that hold them sacred, subject to



ridicule. Then we wonder while the world is such a mess.! Got any good jokes?



wyn

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 09:55

Just for you Wyn.



An Irish girl who had not seen her parents for over five years came home unexpectedly one day. No sooner has she set foot inside the house than her father rounded on her angrily: "Mother of God, Roisin! Where have you been all this time? Look at the state of you, girl! You're wearing lipstick and that skirt barely covers your bottom! You shamless ingrate! You left us without a word on your sixteenth birthday and we've not had so much as a line from you in five years. Why didn't you call? Do you have any idea what you've put your poor Mam through?!"



Roisin started crying and sobbed: "Oh da...I fell in with a bad crowd...sniff...started sleeping around...took drugs...sniff...and then I became a prostitute..."

"Holy Mary!" shouted her father. "What did you say? A PROSTITUTE!? You evil little sinner! You're a disgrace to this family—I don't ever want to see your face again!"



"OK, Da," said Roisin, dying her eyes on an expensive, silk handkerchief. "I only came b

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 09:58

"OK, Da," said Roisin, dying her eyes on an expensive, silk handkerchief. "I only came back to give Mum this fur coat, the title deeds to a ten-bedroomed villa in Spain and a savings account certificate for five million Euros. For my little brother, Sean...I got this gold Rolex, and for you, dearest Da—the 'S' type Jag that's parked outside—plus lifetime membership to the Ballymurphy Golf Club...(takes a deep breath)...and an invitation for you all to spend New Years' Eve with me on board my new yacht on the French Riviera, and—"

Her Father interrupted and asked: "What was it you said you had become again?"

His daughter started crying again and sobbed: "Sniff...a dirty little slut, Da...sniff...a shameless harlot who sells her body for money...a—a PROSTITUTE!"

Oh! Sweet Bejeesus! The Lord be praised!" exclaimed her father, clasping her to his bosom. "You scared me half to death, girl! I thought you said 'a Protestant.' Come here and give your Da a kiss!"

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 12:34

Thats a cracker No1 Doyen.....Its the way you tell em!



wyn

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 12:50

I know the UK economy is dreadful but can anyone tell me if the weather is going to be the same this weekend. I am coming back to photograph wolves!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 12:54

Wolves! Are they playing in the TRNC this week-end?

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 13:30

Ha Ha, Doyen!



I am actually going back to the UK (from the TRNC) and was wondering what the weather was like. I don't trust weather forecasters and would rather have the opnion of a local. LOL

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 13:39

Sorry chessman, thought you were in the trnc at the week-end.



For the London area, the forecast for this week-end is:



Saturday 19c Sunny

Sunday 18c Cloudy



However, today is very Sunny about 18c.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 13:40

Common sense at last !!!!!!!!!!!!!





Council workers sacked after jobless Afghan mother of seven gets £1.2million council house

A council has sacked three officers after it was revealed an Afghan family was living in a £1.2million home paid for by the taxpayer.



Mother-of-seven Toorpakai Saiedi, 35, receives £170,000 a year in benefits, a staggering £150,000 of that is paid to a private landlord for the rent of a seven-bedroom house in West London.

The detached property in Acton has two large reception rooms, two kitchens, a dining room and a 100ft garden.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1072729/Council-workers-sacked-jobless-Afghan-mother-seven-gets-1-2million-council-house.html

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 14:56

Chssman..I live in west Midlands area.Weather for the week end isnt to bright I am afraid.Quite wet at times which does annoy me cos its lovely today and tomorrow, and on saturday when Ihave an organised golf day outwith 16 of my mates its going to be wet and windy,talk about "sods law "....

Chessman


Joined: 13/05/2008
Posts: 486

Message Posted:
09/10/2008 15:15

Thanks Doyen and Coachie. Looks like I am going to get wet in the wolf reserve!



Coachie, I am sure you will enjoy the 19th hole though!



Apologies for going off topic.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 10:59

There was a great response to the Mail article mentioned by nige above, in the mail yesterday by Littlejohn. I'm not sure if you can get it online but I'll have a look

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:46

This was the Littlejohn article



As £170,000 a year is spent on an Afghan single mother... A story that sums up the howling insanity of modern Britain.

One person who will not be losing any sleep over the impact of the financial crisis is Toorpakai Saiedi, an Afghan mother of seven living in West London and receiving £170,000 a year in benefits.

While millions worry about the prospect of losing their jobs, their homes, their savings and their pensions, she is luxuriating in a £1.2 million double-fronted, seven-bedroom Edwardian villa - her staggering rent of more than £12,000 a month picked up by the British taxpayer.

Ealing Council has a statutory duty to find accommodation for the family. But because it didn't have anything big enough on its books, it approached a private letting agent - and then agreed a rent five times the going rate.

Saiedi says: 'It's like winning the lottery. It's a lot of money but the council pay it.'

This incredible 'Local Housing Allowance' wa

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:48

This incredible 'Local Housing Allowance' was calculated under new rules introduced in April and is supposed to reflect the market rate, the claimant's income and the number of people living in the house.

It's all explained in a leaflet printed in English, Polish, Arabic, Bengali, Chinese, Gujarati, Punjabi, Somali, Urdu, Vietnamese, Welsh and scribble.

I can't even understand the one written in English. Nor work out how they arrived at a rent of £12,458 - when a comparable property in the same street was recently let for £2,500.



•



But Mrs Saiedi isn't complaining and neither is her lucky landlord, Ajit Panesar, who is getting the same kind of return from a refugee living in a scruffy suburb as the Duke of Westminster would receive from a maharajah leasing a mansion in Mayfair.

If ever a single news story summed up the howling insanity of Brown's Britain, this surely has to be it. It's difficult to decide on what precise level this lunacy is most outrageous.

Af

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:50

After the Afghan aircraft hijackers landed at Stansted in 2000, I wrote that in five years' time, they'd still be here.

Who could have guessed then that eight years on there would be an estimated 75,000 Afghans in Britain.

That's just those we know about. It is not recorded how many of them are working, paying taxes and contributing to the economy and how many, like the Saiedi clan, are living off the State.

Around the time of the hijack, I even invented a spoof game show called ASYLUM!, which is still doing the rounds on the internet.

The premise was that all you needed to do was turn up in Britain, utter the magic word 'asylum' and you would be shown directly to a council house and showered with benefits.

It was supposed to be a joke, not a template for government.

But that is pretty much what Labour's open- door, no-questions-asked immigration policy has amounted to.

We all accept that Britain has a responsibility to take in some of the world's genuine refugees. But th

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:51

We all accept that Britain has a responsibility to take in some of the world's genuine refugees. But the reason we get more than our fair share is because we are both a soft touch and an international laughing stock.

Let me make it clear, I don't blame anyone for coming here to make a better life. But I can't help wondering: if it were not for the lavish benefits on offer how many would bother, when they would clearly be happier in a country with which they were more culturally aligned.

It's not the fault of immigrants, or even those international terrorists who set up shop here, that they are allowed to take advantage of our perverse welfare and legal system.

It is the fault of those who make the rules and decide how they should be enforced - or not, as the case may be.

Mass immigration is one of the main reasons we have a housing crisis. Council stock has run out.

And with local authorities prepared to pay £12,500 a month to private landlords to house an eight-strong family

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:52

And with local authorities prepared to pay £12,500 a month to private landlords to house an eight-strong family of Afghans, what chance has a local young couple got of ever finding reasonably-priced accommodation?

Given that the explanatory leaflet is printed in so many different languages, it is probably right to assume that the council expects the overwhelming demand for housing benefit to come from foreign nationals.

Meanwhile, as we're on the subject, the fact that any house in Acton is valued at £1.2 million is an indication of the absurd distortions in the market.

For those of you not familiar with the delights of Acton, it is where several scenes in Minder were filmed. So you understand we're not talking swanky Kensington.

Frankly, I'm astonished that, even ordinarily, it costs £2,500 a month to rent there.

No average, working family could afford to find £30,000 a year in rent out of taxed income, which is why landlords are grateful for the generosity of the government.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:53

As a result of the economic crisis, families all over Britain are staring down the barrel of redundancy and repossession.

Even those in secure employment are pulling in their horns in the face of soaring food and fuel prices and the mounting burden of taxation.

I sometimes think there are two Britains - one where most of us live and another which the government runs.

In this parallel public sector universe, the party never ends. I'm sure the benefit office didn't think twice about doling out £12,500 a month to house the Saiedis.

After all, it's not their money. And there's never been any indication that the tap is going to be turned off. The public sector is awash with money.

Gordon Brown has hosed them down with our hard-earned cash. Government spending has more than doubled in the past ten years.

And when it looked as if the money was going to run out, Gordon just went on a borrowing spree - which is one of the reasons the International Monetary Fund says Britain is u

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:54

And when it looked as if the money was going to run out, Gordon just went on a borrowing spree - which is one of the reasons the International Monetary Fund says Britain is uniquely ill-equipped to cope with the credit crunch.

Officially, there are another 800,000 on the public payroll under Labour, but add in those 'working' for quangos and you can bet it's well over a million.

The Guardian jobs supplement yesterday was again offering the usual exciting range of opportunities for 'cluster managers' and 'support facilitators' - salaries up to £86,000 and one for yourself.

One in five now works for the State. Not for them the harsh economic realities of the private sector, protected as they are by their taxpayer-funded, gold-plated pensions and index-linked pay packets.

While firms go to the wall every day, there's never any suggestion of clearing out the inefficient, eye-wateringly expensive, unproductive legions of supernumeraries cluttering up town halls and government of

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:54

While firms go to the wall every day, there's never any suggestion of clearing out the inefficient, eye-wateringly expensive, unproductive legions of supernumeraries cluttering up town halls and government offices.

They spend their days dreaming up new ways to interfere in our lives and waste our money.

Any hint that there may have to be economies and Labour, the unions and the BBC start screaming about ' schools'n'ospitals' and 'Tory cuts' and the proposals are quietly abandoned.

At the Conservative conference, George Osborne said that to help people out in difficult times, increases in council tax - which has doubled under Labour - should be capped at 2 per cent. Capped? It should be cut by at least 50 per cent.

Councils, predictably, went berserk and said they wouldn't co-operate.

They have become addicted to spending and have been encouraged by a profligate government which thinks that at a time of unprecedented economic uncertainty it's a good idea to pay an Afghan fa

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 13:57

Your best bet for beating the credit crunch is getting a job in government or claiming to be an Afghan asylum seeker.

In the words of Toorpakai Saiedi: 'It's like winning the lottery.' And she didn't even have to buy a ticket.

We are all going to hell in a handcart

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 14:32

Hi No1Doyen,



Do you feel strongly on this point?



Frankly, I could not agree more. There is not a word that you have written that I disagree with.



The lunatics have broken out of the assylum..To save the Labour appologists piling in. I do



not think it is possible for any political party to put matters right. The lid is off Pandoras



Box.



A world recession with a severe right wing backlash, seems to be the route we are going



to follow. History has shown us the way. I just hoped and prayed that with hindsight we



would never go down that path again!



Cometh the moment, cometh the man!....Any suggestions! Nostodamus take a bow!



wyn

Biker



Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 14:54

Most councils and police force had their assets which were stashed away in Icelandic Bank frozen yesterday.

Brown is going mental and trying to charge them with terrorist laws and freeze their assets in UK.



(These are the councils who said that they need to up the council tax much higher than the inflation every year for the last 10 years. Kent council who had 40 million was laeding the pack)



Who would have thought that they had all these millions stashed away.



Biker

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 14:56

Hi Wyn



Do you feel strongly on this point? Good line.



The problem is, who is going to lead us out of all this? Is there someone out there with leadership skills that can give us all confidence?

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 15:00

My money's on the donkey!



Lem

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 15:03

Who would have thought that they had all these millions stashed away.



So true Biker. Watch Council Taxes substantially increase from next april. Still some people won't have to worry - they would have committed suicide by then! Unless they work for the Government then they'll just strike for a pay rise.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 15:32

Lem,



Cometh the moment,cometh the donkey. Never heard that one, you might have a point though! We already have a bunch of asses running things!



(wackyjim and Jock1 will be claiming commission, if we are not careful)







No1Doyen,



Who? ..............................Now that IS the frightener!.................Peter Mandelson??





Still waiting for The Biblical Antichrist, myself!!! (Theres a point)





wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 16:18

I vote No1Doyen for chancellor and Wnn for P.M. Do I have seconder forthis Motion.....

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 17:58

Coachie, I think Wyn and myself could definately do a better job than the current 'outfit'. Don't worry though, they'll be a place for you - just tell us what position you require. (well you've got to help your friends)

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 20:12

Have just discovered our local authority, i.e, N.Ayrshire, has the highest

borrowed rate from Icelandic bank. We already have higher council tax

than most areas in Scotland.

I am sick to death of the present mentality of borrowing, lending etc.

Our generation was brought up to cut their cloth according to their means.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 20:26

Coachie,



I would no more take on the poisoned challice left by these enthusiastic amateurs, than I would promise a ravishing night of unmitigated sex, to Miss UK. No1Doyen however seems to be of stronger constitution. I stand in awe of the man, and I would be the first to stand fair square behind him.. Come the man, etc...etc...



Step forward No1.......your people are with you!!



wyn

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 21:03

I'm ready to take the oath..........



I promise to do my best to do my duty...................hang on, I've had a better offer, "two sugars please dear!"

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 21:08

No1,



I do!



wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 21:16

No1 doyen & Wyn...Glad to see you have accepted my proposal No1 bit upset Wyn didnt want the other job,something to do with weak constitution maybe.I really did think he was our saviour in dis guise.I know where I went wrong wih Wyn!! I for got to mention his salary would be payed in unlimited Effes,would that change your mind Wyn??? Could I have the job of enrgy Secratary because these energy and oil companies are getting up nose with these prices they are charging.Love to hit them with abig sledge hammer!!!!!

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
10/10/2008 21:17

Wyn, you are quick! I bow to your wit

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 00:03

No1Doyen,



With your sense of humour, and encyclopaedic knowledge of jokes, you bow to no man.



Keep up the good work!



Wyn

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 00:24

Wyn, you are a Gentleman and a Scholar

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 00:27

No1,



I blame the drink!



wyn

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 01:07

What's happened to you, No1 Doyen? From years of non-commital posts to heart on sleeve. Or is someone else using your log-in?

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 01:56

Wyn and no1Doyen, greetings from TRNC!



Great postings! The weather is lovely here.....not raining!......Yet!



Biblical AntiChrist Wyn? I think its Mandie.....Mandleson!



Im going to have a crash course in Turkish. Get a good Tan. flush my Euro passport down the loo on the flight home and mutter Asylum when I get to UK..........Do ya think that will work?



nunu

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 02:27

Nunu,



Hope you are enjoying your stay in the TRNC. Is it raining yet?



I am truly sorry that you are dissapointed with the progress on your apartment. Most builds



unfortunatley are completed late, you just have to be patient. It will be worth it in the end!



So you feel Mandy might be the antichrist? Wouldn't surprise me!. With the stock market



being 21% down this week alone, soon there will be nothing left to Govern!



Good luck with the rainmaking. Heaven knows that they need it out there, and what is more



my swimming pool needs filling!



Enjoy the rest of your holiday.



wyn

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 08:33

come on guys

not all foreigners are cheating the system and getting free housing. i know lots do but not all.

we have a turkish friend who has live and worked paying tax and ni, in the uk since 1980. at the moment he has a serious problem with his leg and is under the hospital in the uk.

i was speaking to him yesterday and telling him to go and claim some sickness or disability benefits because he is entitled to. he is not a rich man but has refused to do this as he feels it wouldn't be fair to take this money from the uk system.



there are people of all nationalities who cheat the system.

how many english people here in cyprus are still claiming benefits from the uk?

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 11:17

PP, I've had enough, lives too short......

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 11:19

sorry, should have typed life's too short..

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 12:06

Fire starter, your friend is obviously a very proud man. However in circumstances such as his he us entitled to claim a benefit and should do so without feeling any guilt or remorse.

I wish him well and hope he gets better soon.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 12:25

Fire Starter,

Well said re- message 107.Its so easy to tar everyone with the same brush.I have been lucky and had continuous employment for the last 14 years.Some are not so lucky.Some people generalise to much and think that a big percentage of people in England are scroungers and living on hand-outs i dont believe this to be so,

Enjoy your week-end,

Paul.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 15:03

Nige

'Common sense at last'

Common sense my ar*e, who were the managers that approved the package?, these people were contract workers and if they were were not supervised then people further up the chain should be held to account.

AJ

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 15:08

Hi Paul



Of the £134 billion UK benefit expenditure in 2006/07, more than £119 billion was managed by the DWP in Great Britain. After allowing for inflation,

social security benefit expenditure in the UK more than doubled from £66 billion in 1978/79 to £134 billion in 2006/07. Total UK expenditure on social protection as defined by ESSPROS in 2005/06 was £325 billion. This was equivalent to 26 per cent of gross domestic product (GDP). I can't find figures since 2005/6 - but they certainly have not gone down.



Quite a high percentage though don't you think?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 16:26

Doyen,

Very high indeed.But wouldnt you expect a hike in the cost of social security benefit in 28 years.Is g.d.p. to do with market value of finished goods from a country.As i am not quite sure,

Paul.

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/10/2008 17:12

GDP - gross domestic product- this is one of the measures of income and expenditure in the UK

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/10/2008 21:09

Doyen,

There is actually a G.D.P. league table and believe it or not we are doing very well indeed,

Paul.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 01:09

For many, many years the older generations have been saying

"the country's going to the dogs" Well, the dogs have had a good long wait!

There are serious problems though which must be tackled.

Last week 4 miles from me, a young mum died trying to save her children

in a house fire. A 13 year old has been charged with murder.

I have just been told that my eldest son, returning from work, alone at a

small Glasgow station, threatened by 2 youngsters with knife. (Recorded on

cctv. & positive identification on mugscan) Offendants pleaded guilty. Younger,

knife carrier, 13 years of age. Worrying.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 08:48

i agree, the crime rate in the uk is out of control.



if the nhs gave away crack and heroin for free to addicts, i wonder how much this would cut it down?



i think drug addiction and crime go hand in hand.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 10:10

Fire starter, totally agree, but also lack of morallity causes most of these problems. It goes back to the Parents (90% of the time) and the way they bring there children up. There's no respect any more.



Phylray, yes it is very worrying because it's getting worse. The courts also have a lot to answer for. Harsher sentences should be given to these people.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 15:02

Now we hear that Peter Mandelson is to receive a £1,000,000 payout for resigning as EU commissioner to join Brown's 'outfit'. Wait for it...he will also receive a pension of £31,000 index linked per year for his 4 year stint in Brussell's. All funded by the tax payers.



When is it all going to end?

shytallknight


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 39

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 18:52

A guy I know was sexually physically and mentaly abused in a catholic boys home when he was a kid by the priests there, and he wasn't the only one, the government are trying to put a cap on the amount of money they can claim, I think it's £50,000 then I read about a lesbian who was awarded nearly half a million quid because she was verbally abused in the army, that should tell you all you need to know about why nearly half a million Brits are fleeing the place every year, the PC brigade have absolutely ruined the UK.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:48

fire starter: "i agree, the crime rate in the uk is out of control. if the nhs gave away crack and heroin for free to addicts, i wonder how much this would cut it down? i think drug addiction and crime go hand in hand.



That's why so many people in law enforcement, myself included, think all drugs should be decriminalised.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 08:29

i have seen the effects drugs have on people first hand. i have had friends who i grew up with, die from the s--t.



if there is one type of person i hate it is the drug dealer!



doyen, i don't think you can always blame the parents. mainly it is peer pressure on the kids, doing what their friends do is the biggest influence.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 12:19

firestarter: "i have seen the effects drugs have on people first hand. i have had friends who i grew up with, die from the s--t. if there is one type of person i hate it is the drug dealer!"



Like me perhaps you would be in favour of decriminalising all drugs.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 12:29

i'm not sure on that issue pike as i think there will always be the next new thing and a black market.

the cost to the nhs in the uk might be a factor when they all get greedy and o.d.

if the gp's could perscribe all drugs to people who requested them maybe. over 18 years old would be a good start.

drink and cigarettes are legal after all.

i think there is a lot of difference between smoking a bit of pot compared to heroin or coke.

maybe we should adopt a more liberal dutch attitude to pot.



heroin is the worst thing and cokes not far from it ,so i am unsure about them. perscription only maybe.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 12:38

i think there is a lot of difference between smoking a bit of pot compared to heroin or coke. maybe we should adopt a more liberal dutch attitude to pot.



Absolutely. When did you last hear of anyone carrying out unmitigated thuggery after a bit of blow?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 12:57

if the uk goverment don't do something soon, everyone will be on the s--t.



my son was 8 years old when his class mate offered him some pot. i went f-----g mental. this was in a rural village school not the innercity! He is totally anti drugs.



i also have a friend in the uk who is in the courts, he takes a dim view of drug dealers and locks them up to the max.(when he can).



i blame a lot of it on social services who have the softly softly approach. blame the parents and not todays society!



would love to stay and chat but vaio battery is low and we are on a power cut right now. thanks again kibtec!!!

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 16:16

I think all drugs should be banned. Cannabis affects your brain as much as crack or heroin.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 17:45

Doyen,



I know where you're coming from but in terms of law enforcement hash/grass is a waste of time. In the last five years I've just taken it off anyone caught with it. It just appears after they've been detained and are being searched. If they are not otherwise offending let them go. It's not worth it.

Mellie


Joined: 30/01/2008
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 17:48

A friend of mine i know back in the UK works for a medical centre who deals mainly in drug related illnesses. She told me that the majority of patients were the ones who had been hooked on cannabis and they were all suffering from severe paranioa or schizophrenia. So in fact smoking cannabis is deemed to be harmful also.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 17:52

Mellie, how can it be harmfull if its causing suffering from severe paranioa or schizophrenia?



PP. I know what you are saying but do you think they should reclassify hash/grass?

Mellie


Joined: 30/01/2008
Posts: 145

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 19:01

Sorry Doyen, I do not understand what you are asking me. Is it me wording my post wrong?? What I mean is that taking cannabis is just as bad as taking a class A drug, because of what it does to you in the long term. Does that make more sense??

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 19:18

People.....Any of you still living in the UK now and have no plans to leave?....



SPEND 20 minutes of your time and write x1 Letter to Gordon Brown of your un happiness of the Government and the irreversable damage the they have caused over the past 11 Years. INCLUDE all the subjects and aspects that you and all your friends and Family are not Happy with!!!



PLACE the letter in an envelope, Address it to 10 Downing Street, London. Put a first class stamp on the TOP right hand side.



WALK to the nearest PO Box. Place letter in PO Box.



Go Home and tell all your friends and Family to do the same .....and dont forget to CC send a copy to the QUEEN at BUCKINGHAM Palace!



JOB DONE!



Dont winge about it down the PUB just follow my above instructions!!!



nunu

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 19:36

Doyen,



I think classes A to C should be decriminalised. It takes the gangsters and associated criminality out of the supply chain and puts a dent in the "cool to be taking it" mentality among youth. There will always be an opiates addiction problem, but unless radical steps are taken ordinary people will suffer low to high level crime as a direct result of the huge criminal sums to be made from dealing and trafficking drugs. Decriminalise it and you slash this at a stroke.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 19:40

mellie,



I agree there is a psychotic link to cannabis, but research has tended to show this is more prevalent among those who started taking it while still in their teens and when their brains and personalities were still developing. I think there's a lot that good parenting can do to help prevent kids going down the slippery slope.

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:28

PP. When you say decriminalise it, do youbreally think this will take it off the streets? What's your thinking behind this?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 01:46

Doyen,



Yes, see msg 134.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 10:24

11 years of New Labour, and now Mandelson is back!



wyn

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 10:42

Pike



"hash/grass is a waste of time. In the last five years I've just taken it off anyone caught with it."



I wondered what happened to all the shit man... how do you smoke it? In a nargile?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:32

Off thread I know, but I understand that the tradition of smoking a nargile was at its peak between the 17th and the 19th century in Turkey.



Question. Was it only used in Turkey?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:58

hey we have a nargile but don't smoke pot in it.

loads of households here have one.

you smoke fruit tobacco in it. its a social thing.



i know a few people who have drink problems. their minds are probably more messed up, than those of my friends who have smoke pot long term.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 19:46

"you smoke fruit tobacco in it. its a social thing."



It's a bloody crazy thing given what we know about smoking these days....



Er, I'll get my coat......................

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 20:10

Groucho: "I wondered what happened to all the shit man... how do you smoke it? In a nargile?"



Kinder on the throat and the best way for non-nicotine addicts, I'm told.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 22:10

Many parents do not know their children smoke cannabis, or more potent

drugs. They don't exactly advertise it. I found my youngest son smoking it

in the bedroom. After many words, he promised never to smoke it again in

our home. 2 weeks later I recognised the smell & he was leaning out the

window smoking it, telling me it was not in the house! Another row, and

eventually, he did give it up. He told me he obtained it first at school but I

could never find out who/where he got it from. A good friend of his was also

taking it, and he said the parents did not know.

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 23:28

phylray, how old was your son when you caught him? Did you inform the school authorities?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 01:47

Phylray,



Was it the smell or the fact that all your fun-size Twix, Mars Bars and Milky Ways had vanished from the larder that first alerted you to the problem? Good on you for sharing this issue, BTW. As parents we should be able to discuss these things.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 10:28

i agree, its not easy when your kids get into this stuff.

it is so easy to blame the parents.



we have 2 boys both now adults. one was always into drink and drugs and partying. the other is a computer geek, hates drink and drugs.



so we send the "blame the parents "issue right out of the window.