Kenya could tell us more about what really happened in Cyprus

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 13:51

Four elderly Kenyan men, are suing the British government for torture during the Mau Mau rebellion back in the 1950's.



As a consequence of the case, it has been revealed that the Forign office has 2,000 unopened boxes containing files of British actions in our colonies during the 50's and 60's. These files had been officially surpressed and have not previously been made available to the public. They are now to be opened and scrutinised.



It is belived that these files contain records of all British activities that took place in Cyprus during this period.



Watch this space all could be revealed.

matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 647

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 14:10

In Cyprus, Ireland et al the British Forces were "Pigs in the Middle!"

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 14:58

Matula, only victims are pigs in the middle. You can hardly describe the presence of the British as rulers in Cyprus and Africa as victims. I think further education is a must here.



Perhaps in another 100 years the British government will apologise for the more recent atrocities it has committed. It was a good start apologising for not acting during the potato famine.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 15:27

The British government could have avoided this case if they had agreed to pay 70 million pounds to the Kenyans together with a letter of apology.



I can hear the lawyers sharpening their knifes and see them drooling at the mouth, they are going to be feasting for years to come.



In a hundred years time the world will come to realise that Britain, although it did some bad things, it was at the forefront of our civilasations growth and development. Britain has provided many of the building blocks that will support our human development.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 15:44

Msg 4

Did a really good job of nearly wiping out the whole male population from NZ & Oz in 1915. Enjoy the 25th of this month!



Richard

matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 647

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 15:45

You are wrong Fred, the british forces were trying to keep the peace between the Prods and the Tims and the Greeks and the Turks and being villified by both sides!

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 17:57

The Promise a channel 4 4 part production gives a view of the British in Palestine prior to Israel independence well worth a watch and offers a window into declining empire and present situations .

You could read roc kenya india /pakistan

http://www.suite101.com/content/tv-review-the-promise-episode-one-channel-4-a344613

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 19:17

Brins;



If the Brits had been that good at putting down the natives, you wouldn't be on this forum.



Where in NZ did you choose to live again?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 19:31

Msg 8

No media scoop gems on this one for you, born Wellington and if you were so damn erudite you'd know the indigenous people were the Maorioris who were eaten by the Maoris who in turn got butchered and murdered by the Brits. Have a good day this coming 25th!



Richard

matula


Joined: 07/07/2008
Posts: 647

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 19:49

I think Brinsley is referring to WW1, Gallipoli and all that!

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 20:15

Msg 10

Well, one bright person! 25th April is ANZAC Day, well covered live by Turkish TV from the 5 o'clock dawn service onwards.

Of course, 'newscoop' will be there reporting on the whole event in Canakkale for an up to date report posting to C44!



Richard

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 23:50

All I can say is poor British, did all that good and is just not appreciated. Dam rude of these natives what?



Qoa Blimey who's history did you read then? It isn't the one I read and that was in a decent school in the UK.



Who asked them to go to these countries and what for?



When you learn your history properly, I think you will find that wherever they went, they used the minority to control the majority that caused havoc for the populations after they scarpered. Hence the problems in every country they invaded.



Shall we list them?

I'll start with a few.



Cyprus

Palestine

India/Pakistan

Srilanka..... shall we continue?

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 23:54

If these Men succesfully sue the government then it will open the floodgates for for millions. England will be bankrupt good and proper.

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 00:44

Y Fred. message 12



I have traveled the globe, visiting MANY former colonies, from the Caribbean, Australasia, many Islands on the Pacific Western Rim, The Far East, The Indian Ocean, Malasia, Japan, Hong Kong.

I have lived in Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan, The Middle East. Kenya,

In virtually every former BRIT colony there are schools, a sound infrastructure, government, police, law and order, in general, they are doing quite well. In other former colonial colonies run by the French, Belgian, German, Italians etc. there is a noticeable difference in the quality of life of the inhabitants.

I do not deny that Britain benefited enormously from its colonies but it also left them far better off in many ways than they were before colonization.

You might scoff at the British YFred, but have you visited some of the Other former Colonized countries Not run by the British? They were left in shambles having been plundered. Britain too was colonized by the Romans remember? It certainly hel

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 12:02

msge 14



Very good post birdman



My little socialist friend who enjoys his little visits to England, a country he has obviously lived in but chooses to hate with venom, just does not get it.



He thinks that it is only the Brits who are capable of violent acts and suppresion. Violence and ill intent will always be found where there are strong hierachies. The Brits certainly did not create this.



He also doesn't recognise that peopes countries and values change over time. Bad does not mean bad forever. He also completely ignores the good that the British (and western countries) have done. No doubt he has benefited from a British education but chooses to ignore how the British structure (with all its bad things ) created people like Newton and Darwin whos ideas transformed our modern world.



I am reminded of a line from Monty Python. What did the Romans ever do for us? Well quite a lot actually and so have the Brits.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 12:05

correction to msge 15



He also doesn't recognise that people and countries Values change over time

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 12:12

Richard; you come out with the same boring crap every year, the Dardanelles were as much a failure of the Anzac generals as Churchill.



As for you and your fellow travellers why did you go to the home of the oppressor and make a life?



Still it could have been worse you could have been a citizen of a French, German, Italian, Dutch, or perish the thought Belgian colony, then you'd have had something to moan about.



As opposed to the country that ended the slave trade and Suttee among many other good things.



Stuck your tongue out at anyone lately?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 12:34

"I can hear the lawyers sharpening their knifes and see them drooling at the mouth, they are going to be feasting for years to come. "



The sad thing is, it's the legal profession who will make the fortunes and the victims will get a pittance.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 12:42

newscoop/msg17:



Don't denigrate the good ol' Maori Haka!



Our favourite Australian bard is the first to admit that Aussies really need something similar, so he's come up with this:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgMH5FCC6_g



This ballad contains material of a banal nature - parental guidance is advised!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 16:54

msge 18



Very true. I was reading about a claim the other day (I forget the specifics) where the victims have not yet received a penny, yet the lawyers have received payment in full, an amount which surpasses that which the victims will get. Bloody scandalous.



msge 7



The Promise was a real eye opener. I assume it is largely true as many of the events did happen. I must say it made me see the Israelis in a different light.



msge 17 - yes I did hear the Belgians were particulary ruthless.



correction to message 14



Darwins ideas were used negatively by the colonial powers, for example the Germans in Namibia used the idea of inferiority to experiment on the locals, however in the long run Darwins ideas like Newtons have been used to dismantle superstition and give rise to science, so as to potentially help all.

gusanova


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 20:14

I agree with Birdman on his comments. I too have served in Kenya and was actually born nextdoor in Tanzania where my father was a Policeman.

Not so long ago a load of women tried to sue the British Forces for rape and for children born there. For those who have served in Kenya must have gone to places like the 'Sportsmans' and seen the women there- not a pretty sight and thats after a few Tuskers!!



Its amazing that all these people now want to sue Britain- what about the other side of the coin, the planters and wives and children who were indiscrimanately massacred by the Mau Mau!! The same as here in Cyprus with EOKA.

The British have a lot to answer for as they did get too full of themselves as in movies about the 'RAJ' but the serviceman where sent to do a dangerous job and in most cases did an excellent one bringing stability to these countries. How many former colonies have been run by despots especially in Africa.

gusanova


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 20:16

Someone also remarked about an apology for the Potato Famine......... whilst we are at it what about the Glencoe Massacre!!



It really has to stop as its just greed , I agree there is no smoke without fire but almost 50n years on is pathetic. How many former indigenous people from the former colonies now have British Passports and live in UK??

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 11:12

Talking about the "Irish Potato Famine" !



It never happened!



They just forgot where they planted them !!!!!

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 15:03

I agree with YFred, on the subject of "divide and rule policy" followed by the, then, British rulers - to keep them out of harms way as much as possible, whilst planting seeds of hatred between differing ethnic or religious communities in a colony. This was a self admitted policy and it actually IS the cause of many ethnic divisions & fights in the world since now

I am finding it very difficult to locate the actual reports, but I do remember clearly, the British bases in Cyprus increasingly becoming a target of many GC demonstrations against the sovereign military areas (they wanted them out). I also remember clearly, Greek and Turkish leaders had agreed on almost everything for reunification, except a deadlock on the rights and powers of local governing bodies. But the mood was very favorable of a solution becoming a reality soon.

One wonders, if the above helped the British politicians egg on Greece into taking over the island? Hence, their stance during the Turkish invasion?

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 15:04

The second paragraph above refers to 1973-1974!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 18:11

msge 24



Now this is an interesting post, especially so, if you can prove that the GC's and TC's were making peace and that the Brits encouraged Greece to take over the island. It is possible, there was a bigger context, which was the battle for supremecy between Communism and Capitalism. Clearly the Cypriots got caught up in this, and so did the world



The GC's venting thier anger at the British army, may have also been a means to open up a path for the Greeks, so as to facilitate Enosis. As I keep saying it is not just the British who ar capable of bad acts, every human has the potential for savagery and that includes the Cypriots. It is not a British disease. Of course, the Brits should not have been there in the fist place, we did some bad things, but this was a different era, and we cant just say that the British prescence in other countries has been just a bad thing.



Also from what I understand the Greek Junta was a vicious lot themselves.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 18:27

mgse 23



very funny