Turkish Cypriot discontent grows

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:08

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/turkish-cypriot-discontent-grows/20110408



FIGHTS AND scuffles broke out as around 3,000 Turkish Cypriots protesting against an Ankara-inspired economic austerity package sought to march on the north’s ‘parliament’ building yesterday.



Tempers frayed as the union-backed demonstrators took to the streets for the third time in as many months in an effort to force the Turkish Cypriot authorities to back down over implementation of the package that seeks to cut public sector employment and realign the pay scales of around 17,000 ‘state’ employees.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:09

Chanting “Ankara get your hands off the Turkish Cypriots!” and “Ayse go home! (in reference to the code word that triggered the Turkish invasion of 1974)” the crowds took a clear message to ‘parliament’ and the Turkish ‘embassy’ which stand opposite each other in the north of Nicosia.





Anger against Ankara has been growing in the Turkish Cypriot community since the ‘governing’ National Unity Party (UBP) last year announced it intended to implement the Ankara-inspired economic austerity package.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:09

Tensions then grew to a peak last month when tens of thousands demonstrated against comments made by the Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan that Turkish Cypriots had “no right to protest against Ankara” because it “fed and maintained” the community.

Although smaller in number, yesterday’s protesters made no bones about their disdain for the Turkish government. One group of protesters defied police warnings that banners deemed insulting to Turkey would be confiscated by brandishing one telling Ankara to “F__k off from Cyprus!” When a plainclothes police officer sought to remove the banner, he was rounded on by demonstrators and forcibly removed from the crowd amid chants of “Police out!”

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:10

Police also intervened when another protester climbed onto the railings of the Turkish ‘embassy’ brandishing a Republic of Cyprus flag – a symbol also deemed insulting to Turkey by the Turkish Cypriot authorities. Shouting, “This is not a Greek Cypriot flag; this is a Cyprus flag; this is my flag!” the protester was eventually forced off the railings by police. Attempts by the police to remove the protester from the demonstration were thwarted by other protesters.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:11

Turkish and Turkish Cypriot leaders insist that austerity measures are vital for the north, which is currently languishing with €3 billion worth of debt to Turkey and private banks.



They also insist that if the current budget deficit is not significantly decreased, they will not be able to pay civil servants.



As well as cutting the salary budget, a number of ‘state’ corporations have been earmarked for privatisation – something the unions vehemently oppose.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:11

While most opposition parties did not participate in yesterday’s rally, they say they will join future demonstrations and that the protest did have their “moral support”. Leader of the Communal Democracy Party (TDP) Mehmet Cakici told the Cyprus Mail he would be meeting with the unions soon to plan the next mass rally against Ankara.



The only political parties that took part in yesterday’s protest were the small left-wing parties, the New Cyprus Party (YKP) and the United Cyprus Party (BKP), whose members were among the most vocal in expressing their distain towards the Turkish government

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:25

When you take an article written by someone else and published by someone else and then copy and paste it wholesale elsewhere, rather than just link to the original, then the least you can do is credit the orginator of said article.



This article was published by Cyprus Mail and can be seen here



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/turkish-cypriot-discontent-grows/20110408



Really this is a serious issue imo. Adding a credit to the orginator of such posts is not only the right thing to do in regards of the rights of the orginator of it it is also necessary for those that view it if they are to be able to judge such posting properly. Really I expect better from a moderator I have to say.

demoly


Joined: 12/01/2011
Posts: 45

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:38

HA. turkeys voting for christmas

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
08/04/2011 22:42

Erolz. Message 7. Of course you are right and I thought I had shown the link in the first post.



To make amends I have now posted the link at the beginning of the first post.

AnthonySmith


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 455

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 08:13

Bill, I'm with Erolz. Posting a link should surely be good enough?

Thanks for posting and it is interesting.

Incidentally, it is typical Cyprus Mail bias. Discontent grows? Last time, police said there were about 50,000 demonstrators. This suggests 3,000. How is that growing?

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 10:21

Was there and saw it. Brave people who have had enough of their destiny being controlled by a foreign occupier. More power to them that they will eventually succeed.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 10:37

Zoots



Sorry, but it is time that the TRNC populus woke up and 'smelled the coffee'. I appreciate that part of the problem has been caused by Turkey providing a ridiculous amount of financial support to the TRNC over the years but the country needs to start walking without the aid of this financial 'crutch'. Austerity measures are being employed worldwide - why should the TRNC be any different ??



Regards



Paul

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 01:10

Paul,

That's ignoring the bigger picture. Turkey came in 1974, supposedly to "save" the Turkish Cypriots, and never left, thereby presiding over the ruin of the TCs and the destruction of their culture and community. It's not the fault of the TCs that they have no control over their economy or future.

It's their country so they are entitled to expect their illegal occupier to either maintain the standard of living that was imposed on them (compensation for creating an unviable, chaotic and unproductive state) or withdraw their forces and give the TCs some kind of future in a new and potentially booming Cyprus.

That's the reason why you could see RoC flags and banners saying: "Ayse go home" (a play on the codeword for the 1974 invasion). The TCs know they've been used and abused by Turkey for its own strategic and geopolitical ends.

You and I were trained to beware of leftists, but in Cyprus the only people to be trusted are leftists, simply because they are not nationalists.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 01:21

Very well put Zoots - and I agree with you completely! It is exactly why Mr Erdoğan's outburst was very unfortunate and politically very ignorant...

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 07:27

Too simplistic Zoots I am afraid. Since when did 'illegal occupiers' have a duty to 'maintain a standard of living' of those they occupy? Clearly the situation in Northern Cyprus is not simply a case of illegal foreign occupation as you like to portray it (in line with the classic GC propaganda view it might be noted) and the fact that you think Turkey has an obligation to maintain standards of living here shows that you know this is the case.

You claim TC 'know they have been used and abused by Turkey' yet it is far from clear to what degree this view exists amongst TC generally. That you seek to portray it as a veiw held by all TC is indicative of where you are comming from imo.

You also claim that if Turkey was to leave NC, before an agreed settlement between TC and GC, the TC would obtaın some kınd of (better) future ın a new and potentıally boomıng Cyprus. Again it is far from clear that this would be the case.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:01

erolz;

You seem to confuse and interpret things wrongly. I am a TC, I live in NC, and I have hundreds of of social and business contacts from every sample of the society we live in. I am yet to find 1 TC who does not complain against the overwhelming presence of our brothers from Turkey, whose contribution to our economy has been nothing more than investing in businesses, that will employ their own kind imported from across the sea - plus line the pockets of a chosen few! That is not how N.C. will prosper, and it has not done so over the past 6-7 years.

Since you live in Girne, tell me how many mainland TC owned internet cafes, kebab houses, hairdressers/barbers, hotels, fuel stations etc do you know where TCs are actually employed in numbers? What percentage of employees in Cratos are TCs? How many TCs are drivers are employed as mini-bus drivers?

Do not confuse the issue with some TCs being "ungrateful" for being saved by "motherland", or not liking their own kind (Turks) - Cont.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:15

Turkey leaving Cyprus "militarily" before a settlement is not the issue here! The issue is, Turkey should leave Cyprus both as illegal labor force and undesired investments. If we were not driven out of Cyprus by the GCs and are now driven out by those arriving from Hatay, Gaziantep and Adana (and I mean that literally) then what have I or my children got to be thankful for?

Do I trust the GCs to live together under the same roof as things are? NO! I certainly not - but do I also have to grab the tail of a venomous sea snake to float, because accidentally I fell into the sea? NO! to that either. If you claim not to think too simplistic then stop supporting your argument comparing one extreme with another. There is what is called a "middle point" where one can hit a balance of things, for the best interest of their own people.

Take the presence of the Turkish army in Cyprus at this time. We love watching the Turkish Air-force stars and the Turkish Navy proudly (God bless them).

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:26

We support the Turkish National team whenever there is an international game, all of us are either GS, BJK or FB supporters when it comes to football. We all feel good when Turkey is doing economically well. BUT do we really need 40-50,000 soldiers stationed here? Especially when our borders with the South have become nothing more than watchtowers for preventing illegal entry/exit rather than defending a military attack. Think deep and tell me the chances of an EU member Greek side declaring an all out war on TC North at this time (or ever), for no good reason, without the "go ahead" from EU or UN - because we have 5000 Turkish troops instead. Now that we occupy and have our own ports/airports, Turkey could push in 50,000 troops within 24 hours! Not that we would need that many to defend such an attack - with a little help from the Turkish air-force TCs could defend themselves, and it would not be the first time they've done it either. (continues)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:27

bigOz nowhere to I offer an alternative simplistic view that TC are happy with the current status quo. What I was saying is that portraying Turkey's presence here as simply one of a foreign invader is simplistic and not accurate. Yet this is how Zoots portays it at the same time as saying this 'invader' also has a duty to maintain living staandards for TC. There is an inherent contradiction there in those two statements as far as I see things.

As to how widespread and to what degree TC are discontent with Turkeys presence and actions in North Cyprus, both before and after the current calls for auterity measure here, it is next to impossible to say imo.

I am intrigued to know what 'middle way' you see, between current status quo and Turkey leaving entirely, militarily and economically as well.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:41

The amount of bread, pulses, vegetables and even things like the toilet paper these soldiers currently consume has a dramatic effect on the "supply-demand" chain, resulting in abnormally high prices for many home produced items.

The high street shops in Lefkoşa old city constantly complain about the flooding of the streets by hundreds (if not thousands) of men every weekend where a normal family would be weary of going out shopping - instead they all cross the border into Ledra Street! Have you ever seen the foot brigade in old city Lefkoşa at weekends? As a result, all TC business and residential areas have moved out, to be taken over by turban wearing Eastern Turkey stock (most not even Turks but actually Kurds) and streets full of people like flocks of sheep who prefer walking in the middle of the roads rather than the pavement!

This is what he TCs are fed up with. They want Turkey to stop using N.C. as a dustbin for her surplus rubbish - else we are just as proud to be

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 08:54

Turkey does not wish us to be an economic burden on them as much as we want economic independence. Militarily, Turkey's presence and her strong position in current world politics is a deterrent in itself. She is now in a much stronger position to act unilaterally than back in 1974, when all her resources were controlled by USA and was under economic pressure by the whole of Europe. What we as TCs always insisted on and still insist is: "Turkey must continue to be a guarantor power"

Secondly, the "middle of the road" is where there would be a symbiotic relationship between mainland Turkey and North Cyprus both economically and militarily. Economically, Turkey and N. Cyprus can allow free trade in "BOTH DIRECTIONS". Trade with Turkey would probably extend to the Greek side and benefit Turkey even more so. Militarily, think of the amount of money Turkey saves in defense expenditure over Mediterranean Sea down South because it's turned into a Turkish Lake because of our presence.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 09:07

If the military expenditure in the Aegean, where it is blocked by the Greek islands is taken into consideration (where they have even created a whole new army outside NATO forces), then the economic help currently dished out to TCs is of minor concern. This, reflected as a "handout" by PM Erdoğan, is the biggest insult to any TC even the most nationalistic ones! Hence, why be upset by the slogans at recent meetings? They were not racist slogans against Turks but slogans against "Erdoğan" and "Ankara" (i.e. the government), protesting their political/economical stance on Cyprus. Again, slogans like "the holiday is over - Ayşe go home" are aimed at the needless numbers of soldiers currently kept on the island, and occupying a sizable portion of land an property in both touristic and residential areas. Why??? Next time you drive along the North coast, please take a closer look at the coastline and the army bases & residential areas for the officers, and tell me I am wrong!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 11:53

http://books.google.com.tr/books?id=x2vtFpW2FnwC&pg=PA62&lpg=PA62&dq=turkeys+duties+for+cyprus&source=bl&ots=Mv1X-meVK_&sig=FcFeHXCA3bV5NGMb3b7uqRrUzHg&hl=tr&ei=c7-iTdWLFsOxhQfyn-HwBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=false

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 12:18

Zoots - some kind of future in a new and potentially booming Cyprus. - Pardon?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 12:41

without presuming to "take sides" on the discontent,

there are two factors very rarely taken into account on these pages



firstly there is a level of anger in eastern countries at present,

call it democracy campaign in china (supressed), freedom for syrians (people shot at)

...anti-corruption in egypt or indeed action against financial cuts by turkey in cyprus



all of these cries also have some economic basis: expect the unemployed

masses to protest in yemen and all the disposessed to rally elsewhere



secondly while it stretches reality that turkey will end its involvement on the island

there are those who for reasons entirely of their own, wish to beef up what protest

really means for now and the future: ie chip away at the well-being of north cyprus'

property and tourism, business confidence and so on



it is agreed that many turkish cypriots look to benefit job-wise from a "re-united"

cyprus (however improbable) ...but the stakes are far bigger than that

halffull


Joined: 26/01/2009
Posts: 571

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 12:57

How easily we forget, my neighbor is a Cypriot and he fought in 1974 and saw the atrocities. He will not go South and detests the greeks.

He has a lot of time for the Turkish and how they saved him and the remaining Turkish Cypriots from termination.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 15:57

halffull;

I guess you never visited Germany after the second world war! Or refused to join in with them in EU! And what about the Irish who bombed the s**t out of London for more than a decade - do you hate all Irish that you do not acknowledge Irish Republic as a partner in Europe? I guess your traditional hatred for & fights with the French over centuries stops you from crossing over to do some shopping in Calais! How would you feel if there were 25-30 million US soldiers still in UK "protecting" you from a possible German attack & imposing regulations?

Pleeeaaseee, do not serve us that rubbish about atrocities, when the subject has nothing to do with giving the GCs so much power or say in our lives, enabling them to carry out the same again.What part of it is that people like your kind self do not understand; allowing TCs stand economically on their two feet, and deciding their own destiny in their own country, is not necessarily asking to be ruled by the GCs?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 15:57

halffull----Only the ones in denial can not agree with your above comments.However,the issue here is not that,but a pure genocide!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 16:21

Bigoz. You and Zoots wouldn't be government employees would you? If so that would account for some of your views. To get the TRNC back on it's feet and stop the dependency on Turkey they will have to take a drop in wages. Then when we are self-sufficient, we can start telling Turkey we no longer need them - I think Turkey will jump for joy. Until then you either say thank you, or tell them to F!!!off and go without a wage packet. You can't have it both ways.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 17:02

Troodo;

How'd you know wheather you'd be able to stand on your own 2 legs,all the while your 'parents' are keeping you under their thumb?

How'd you know if a 'job' you had found (no experience) that you can do it,without trying?

How'd you know,if a salary you are on is/not enough without getting it?

How'd you know,what it is like to 'live' together,without living?

How'd you know,what it is like to BE a parent,with no kids of your own?









How'd you know,what it is like NOT to be bullied/controled,without not being bullied/controled?



HOW'D YOU KNOW,WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE RECOGNISED,WHEN YOU LIVE A LIFE OF NOT BEING RECOGNISED?

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 19:00

The TCs do not work at the Cratos and such because the vast majority of TC seem to believe they are above menial work. Many TCs in management will not employ other TCs as they do not turn up on time, expect their role to be supervisory, will not work for the money (minimum wage). TC "builders" use mainland workers because they are cheap, they live on next to nothing and the said "builders" can "house" them in hovels. I hardly think North Cyprus is considered an answer to unemployment in Turkey by Turkey, get real! I have repeatedly heard the mainlanders being referred to as animals, scum, uneducated and the other night a local TC businessman refered to them as "worse than packies" His words not mine. He has a EU passport as do many TCs, they have been able to have this since the whole of the island was opted in to the EU and enjoys freedom of travel, free medical care within the EU etc I really do think the recognition/isolation card is pulled out a little too often.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 19:22

I live in the region of Lapta Belediye.I see everyday men working on the side of the roads cleaning and clearing,sweeping the roads.All on basic wage.Every single one is TC.Long you may be here to be our mayor Mr.Namsoy.I'd vote for you at every election,irrelevant of which political party you maybe involved in.



>>>Many TCs in management will not employ other TCs as they do not turn up on time, expect their role to be supervisory, will not work for the money (minimum wage).<<<



I've heard that TOO many times.By employing TCs,employer/s would have to pay the duties,with turks,they DON'T.Not only that,they don't pay them the basic wage.Thats if they get a wage at all.On the other hand,the amount of 'self employed' turks'd count into thousands.



By the way,most TCs have been enjoying the freedom of travel/medical care since the british empire days.I'd let you figure out why!

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 19:26

Here is another prime example,



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/60450.asp



70tl per day!



Would you do it?

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:06

Troodo;

I am self employed & never worked for the government! Please do not make assumptions if you know nothing about the other person. By the same token I would say you have no clue about economy and/or world politics because you only read Kıbrıs newspaper and listen to local TV news. Your analysis and conclusion shows a clear misunderstanding of what I have been trying to say and a total misrepresentation of stated points. Perhaps you are one of those businessmen who is largely benefiting from the cheap illegal slave workforce! But that is not my concern - all I can say to you is; majority of TCs living in Cyprus would disagree with you.

There is a surplus of people working at the government offices BECAUSE they are the only establishments who would employ TCs only! There is enough revenue generated from current taxes (and even more if it weren't for illegal workers), electric bills, road taxes, VAT etc to pay for enough people to be employed WITHOUT HANDOUTS FROM TURKEY

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:07

What did Turkey ever do for us?

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:18

i love my country and i love my people ,however i will the first to say that the tc,s in cyprus are just down right lazy how they got too this idon,t know ,because the old generation was never like this they were hard working

honest people ,you know what i really believe turkey has spoilt them ,everyone wants to work for the government,they want a high income for minimum work ,they want a high pension for minimum years put in.

and any hard work ,give it to the mainlanders.



i gave my cousin a job in the building trade ,he came over from cyprus to work for me for a couple of months and make some money ,he worked for two days and said this is too much work for the money,i get better money in cyprus.



i paid his air fare to go back home .



musin



long live the kktc

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:19

We would be "self-sufficient", if these stupid excuses about TCs not being good workers are not made, and the greedy slave-driving businessmen start paying a proper wage to locals instead. I do know dozens of mainland workers working for hotels and cleaning companies, complaining about not getting their wages regularly, some not getting them at all (except accommodation and food). We go out together to internet cafes in Girne tonight and I will show you hundreds of the buggers as well as that many without permanent jobs. The same is true for Magosa and Lefkoşa - even worse in Karpaz! The government and the local police know they exist too! So answer me why you think nothing is done about them?

You claim TCs are late for work and would not do menial work! What is your source of information? Have you done some statistical work on this? Or are we having what hey call "geyik muhabbeti" here? Why are the same TCs fleeing their country to USA, UK, Australia to do menial jobs 12 hrs a d

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:23

Namsoy is a good man without doubt. I see the same workers usually about 12 of them, how many are actually doing any work? A a lot of your so called "self employed" Turks are so because TCs brought them over and never registered them and now they are stuck. As you say TC employers are often to blame. There is still no reason to treat them as they are, after being persecuted yourselves you should know better.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:35

Before any more of these rubbish arguments, I shall give you a good case statistics about what the real position is. Based on above argument, I placed a large wager with a close friend of mine (who is a hotel owner in Cyprus) for a bet that, even with all the professional qualifications and experience I have/had in Europe, if I were to apply for some jobs advertised (albeit I would be the ideal candidate for what they were looking for), I would not even get an interview because I was a TC.

At the time Cratos and another hotel were looking for IT managers and related online marketing staff, there were also two other adverts related to my qualifications, but of lower level, advertised by two other private IT related companies, both clearly owned by mainland Turkish businessmen (I was already in a major position in my friend's hotel). 4 applications later I had the same reply from all "Thank you for your app. we shall contact you in future". They never did and I was 2000 tl richer

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:36

BigOz - Msg 34



"There is enough revenue generated from current taxes (and even more if it weren't for illegal workers), electric bills, road taxes, VAT etc to pay for enough people to be employed WITHOUT HANDOUTS FROM TURKEY "



If this is the case then why is 85% of the money provided by Turkey spent on Civil Service salaries and pensions ? If a similar amount is raised locally in taxes, where is it all going ? - It can't be on infrastructure projects because all of these appear to be paid for either by Turkey or EU grants.



The government has allowed public sector spending to spiral out of control to the point where they can't pay their own workers - something has to be done, just as it is being done around the rest of the world.



Paul

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 20:50

islandgirl;

I do not know how to put this without being offensive but I find your ideas pretty worrying. TCs do not bring them over because to do so they must get their work permits and pay their social security benefits & taxes!

These people come in with 10 tl in their pockets to look for jobs, in anticipation. Small portion of a very small island cannot cope with the influx of unskilled workers as such. It is a great strain on our hospitals (try visiting one), on our schools and other local services. We have one 3 bed flat where I live, occupied by 11 people, producing enough rubbish bags every day to fill up all the bins outside. Not to mention the three satellite dishes and two wireless internet receivers they planted on my water tank (on the roof) without asking for my permission! And you know what? When asked for the monthly fee of 30 tl for the upkeep of the building, their excuse is "we have no money"! What? Back to my question, why are we allowing illegal workers here?

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 21:03

fiendishpaul;

I agree with you but if you read carefully, I do say "to pay for enough people"! meaning, there is a great surplus of employees in all these these government offices, including the police force! But it is a vicious circle, created by Turkish politicians themselves over a long period of time. Every time there is an election, they have used the party they support to give promises of providing employment to TC voters, if elected. Every election, hundreds are employed for positions that are already dealt adequately by others. Over 5-6 elections our government office workers and police force have, probably, overtaken the Greek side down South! So if Turkish politicians want puppets of ministers here, and are willing to pay for the expense of the votes, then of course they will have to hand out the upkeep of their beloved politicians in Cyprus! Ottomans ruled the island with one governor, so did the British. For the third of the island we have MPs galore!

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 21:29

big oz I agree why do we allow illegal workers here or uk goes on the world over not just here.The turkish who work here are treated by their TC employers like they are in a third world country. What differance does it make turkish, turkish cyp. english, russian dont people deserve respect .If they dont would love you to tell me why and please dont bring politics into it this is about people being treated in this day and age as people



I am sorry if it offends you but my philosophy is people are treated as people. Reading your posts you seem to think TCs are so perfect why wouldnt they be employed. I could give many reasons why not but wont get into that on this forum and that is from an employers point of view



As a foreigner in your country I wouldnt get myself involved in your politics but if having a business and being an employer I would abide by the laws and employ legally who I think is the better and harder worker in most cases usually turkish

islandgirl


Joined: 12/09/2009
Posts: 302

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 22:49

41 Blinkered is all i can say. Yes they do it is cheaper to employ them so they do it, the good ones pay the required permits, the bad ones just promise it then hold them over a barrel.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 23:16

honestie;

With all respects, as someone who lived in UK for few decades I am very familiar with how the British have a habit of referring to things by "inference" when the other party has actually said no such thing! Now, where in any of my posts do I say that TCs are better workers than Turks from the mainland? On the contrary, you are the one who claims Turks are better workers then TCs - I would never make such a comparison because it would take a world of research and statistical information. In which post have I said mainland Turks should "not be treated as people"? Where do I say, because someone is Turkish or any other Nationality, they deserve no respect?

Why should your philosophy offend me? Where do I say the TCs are "perfect". Is it my posts you are replying to? Because if they are, I am none the wiser!

Of course you have every right to express your own opinion on the subject just like me or anyone else. BUT please refrain from misquoting me, to express your opinions.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 23:30

islandgirl

Well, are you aware that most of the employers of these illegal workers are their own countrymen from mainland Turkey?

honestie; It does go on in UK and the rest of Europe - because it is cheap labor and good for the "black economy" (where accounts/profits are kept from the inland revenue). Tell me how your countrymen feel about these illegal workers finding a way of staying in UK, flooding the services and council housing as well as increasing violent crime rates? THEN, tell me why the National Front in UK has grown more in power, and had its membership increase over the past decade. Finally - why is The Sun (the most nationalistic newspaper) is the best selling newspaper in UK?

As a foreigner in my country, neither you nor any other national would see the disrespect many foreign nationals (and religions) have seen in UK or Europe. Traditionally TCs are very hospitable and helpful, kind people - we are clearly talking about two different things here.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 23:50

big oz with respect you having lived in the uk for decades as you say and familiar with how the british having a habit of inference when the other party has said no such thing then you are also fullt aware of what inferences means and when referring to" hundreds of the buggars and "turban wearing eastern stock most of them not even turkis but Kurds" the inference is well and truly there



I can assure you I have had numerous years of research and insight into workers and as for statistics we all know about statistics that could be another thread!



and non the wiser re saying TCs being perfect suggest you reread your posts and understand inferences



just expressing my opinion of course and nothing more to express as think alls been said and inferered.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 00:09

honestie;

Inference is really nothing more than assumptions and presumptions! I speak of facts and not assumptions, fact one; most of the illegal workers are of Kurdish ethnic origin, who deny being Turks, and express their support for the terrorists in Turkey. Next time you are out in Karpaz direction, ask someone to translate some of the slogans on the walls for you! As far as I am concerned no such people deserve any respect from me.

I still disagree with you about me saying TCs are perfect - you have not told me where I said or "inferred" any such thing. I also await for your replies to my questions about UK and Europe, which should be of more concern to you than my country!

As for "inferences", I suggest you take a closer look into the British legal system where it is extensively used to lock innocent people behind bars for many years, only to be discovered they were innocent of the alleged serious crime, 10-15 years into their sentence! Sure, inferences my ar... er... arm! :

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 11:26

It’s not us, it’s them - sounds familiar.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 13:19

tension is not unique to north cyprus



a few examples from elsewhere:

after years of "oppression" french-speaking belgians may form their own state

a german-swiss absolutely loathes her itialian-speaking fellow citizens

...koreans in japan are said to be a huge and disenfranchised underclass



many countries suffer violent indigestion in trying to "absorb" large groups or ethnics



what's different about cyprus though is the question of outside interference

despite its ottoman history and turkey's guarantor status

international "opinion" is generally hostile to turkey's continued presence,

it also places cypriot-born turks in an awkward position, some would argue



but failiure to see the "big picture" by greek cypriots in 1963-1974

as well as meddling by the athens junta, is also responsible for present-day issues



yes, musin, maybe the turkish cypriots had come to depend on financial aid from turkey

but greek cypriots relied on eu cash: all are due a rude awakening

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 13:51

bigOz Msg.17 resonates with my feelings and it also informs my thinking on the presence of TR in NC. I fully support this point of view and pleased to see that there others who value the benefit of "keeping the picture clear". I hadn't realised the the nature of the Karpaz population - now I worry about where I should encourage my family to settle for lunch when we are over next month...



However, a hasty and although superficial piece of research ( http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/7.htm) does worry me that all we are doing is experiencing a spooky kind of "groundhog day" in this discourse.

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:41

Halffull wrote: £How easily we forget, my neighbor is a Cypriot and he fought in 1974 and saw the atrocities. He will not go South and detests the greeks.

He has a lot of time for the Turkish and how they saved him and the remaining Turkish Cypriots from termination."

I can see from your post you mix with informed, non-racist and open-minded people whose input is valuable to the future of Cyprus and the Cypriots. I'm also sure you'll agree that the ignorant and uneducated - along with their similar Brit expat cronies - have no place in the debate due to having nothing useful to contribute. Mind you, another thing I've noticed over the years is how so many of these "Cypriot neighbours" don't even exist and are nothing more than a creation to lend credibility to the terminally bewildered.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:52

zoots;

I think it is really hard to understand the above post! But are you sure you literally mean what you say in the first sentence of your reply? Sorry if I am a bit confused, but it would help if you ere a bit more clearer

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:58

brother;

your link is not correct! The actual link is:

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/75.htm

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 23:59

Oz,

Sorry, I was being ironic to the guy as open insults can get one's wrists slapped.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
13/04/2011 11:18

bigOz:Msg.54 - Thanks for correcting it. I hope the information adds some context to this thread. Although, somehow, a balance is needed (IMO) between the dangers of looking backward against the dangers of forgetting too much when wishing to look forward.