two horses killed but who cares!

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 21:05

yes in the grand national,should we stop this race,using horses for the fun.i think this is overlooked because of what the race has become in our history.the race is too long and the fences too high.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 21:17

I am afraid, nobody. It is big business, and show must go on. Those who bet in these races should think about what they are doing. No bets, no races.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 21:18

Msg 1

Boucherie Chevaline!



Richard

racoonchic



Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3223

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 21:22

wahoo..corned beef and brown sauce sandwiches for everyone

cassius


Joined: 20/03/2009
Posts: 110

Message Posted:
09/04/2011 22:46

racoon you are sick!

parkes82uk


Joined: 22/10/2010
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 00:42

Msg 2 you are absolutely correct. I have never really thought about it until today. First my manager said she wouldn't join our syndicate at work, then you. Today was officially my last day of betting on the horses!

Thank you

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 02:22

outdated ..sport of kings???? never betted on it never will .....its total b....x ...bann it !!

KARY44



Joined: 30/04/2008
Posts: 326

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 09:21

Im not an animal rights proteter but i think this is so wrong

in total UK racing 4 Horses killed this weekend

Approx 420 horses killed anually.

See Link

http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 09:26

And we Brits call ourselves Animal Lovers???Double Standards or What !!

Tinkie


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 09:30

Totally agree..stopped betting on the Grand National (only race I ever bet on) years ago when I heard about the deaths of these poor horses. Just cant believe it still goes on....money talks!

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 09:38

Yes! I avoided watching the race itself because of the anticipatated carnage. It happens every year and is just swept aside in the glory of the winner. I was sickened when I watched the news this morning. Enough is enough!

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 09:53

More people killed on the road so should we ban cars?



Here we go again the politically correct on their soap box, for Gods sake they are horses, you think more of them than the starving millions in the world.



The same lot that wanted hunting banned.

Animal rights protesters I don't see any of them volunteering for experiments they would be better doing that than saving basset hounds

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 10:22

If horse racing was banned then the horse would probably become an endangered specis in a generation or two. Apart from racing, I cannot think of any sound economical reason why anyone would own a horse, though even being a racehorse owner is a licence to burn money.

Michael

kavenkoy


Joined: 10/04/2008
Posts: 1787

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 10:30

13

exactly that ,who would own a horse and what for ,if not for racing etc .

same as greyhounds that finished racing ,more in rescue than people know what to do with ....at least you can eat a horse .



farmers only breed cattle,pigs,sheep for food and money .



kav

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 10:35

I thought the Grand National had the fences reduced in size years ago, and I noticed that this year they bypassed 2 fences altogether on the second circuit of the course.

It was also a hot day for this time of year, even the winning horse nearly died due to heat exhaustion and dehydration.

A price worth paying?? 75,000 (first sell out since 1984) punters who attended the meeting clearly thought so.

Does this indicate that most in UK are no longer a nation of animal lovers??

Geoff

Famagusta City.

Jimmyboy63


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 400

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 11:11

Horse racing is a multi million pound industry employing thousands of people and entertaining millions.



It is a shame a few horses are killed during racing but this is a small price to pay for al the fantastic racing you see throughout the year and someone said earlier if it wasn't for racing who would pay too look after the horses???

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 12:04

Geoff - yes, the Grand National did have fences reduced in size some years ago.



The reason two fences were bypassed yesterday is because the two horses that were killed were being treated at those fences - hence, the rest of the field were 'diverted' around them.



J

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 12:58

Msg 12 Hippo,,,The starving Masses of this world are a by-product of MAN's Greed..The USA alone grows enough grain to feed the "Entire Western World", yet 1 in 6 US citizens live below the "Poverty Line"...When it comes to things like the Grand National,it is just a case of rich people exploiting the good nature of an innocent Animal,with no motive other than Profit....It is cruelty in the extreme, and should not be viewed as a Sport..As to your view regarding testing on animals ,I have always thought testing on Paedophiles far more appropriate >>>>

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 13:45

I can't see why horses would go extinct if horse racing is stopped. What percentage of horses in the world is used in racing? I suspect very low. But they will come to their own when oil runs out and we have not got real alternative power source.

jimchris09


Joined: 13/02/2009
Posts: 547

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 13:50

Terrible race the Grand National...backed six horses and didn't even get a place!

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 15:54

Msg 19...I was talking UK\France\USA, the type of Countries that can get from A to B without the need for a horse. If you are rampaging through the areas where the 93 bus does not stop, then I accept horses are invaluable.

Msg 18...hardly worth replying (but I will) to someone who proposes to violate the human rights (going off subject again) of convicted criminals. Tut Tut......disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

Michael

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 16:10

No mention of the jockey?



Jockey Peter Toole is in a critical condition in hospital after being hurt in a heavy fall at Aintree on Grand National Day.



Toole was injured when his mount, the outsider Classic Fly, crashed to the ground in the early stages of the John Smith's Maghull Novices' Chase, the 2.15pm race on the card yesterday.

Jimmyboy63


Joined: 16/03/2009
Posts: 400

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 16:15

Well said Phil



certain people on this board are more concerned about animal welfare tha human welfare,



I just hope Peter Toole is ok, he is only 22

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 16:28

Though this is terrible news, and lets hope he recovers quickly (no doubt with the help of the Injured Jockeys Fund), the accident did not take place during the Grand National, and has no bearing on the great race as its run on a different part of the course.

Michael

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 16:37

Re the jockey, it is HIS/HER choice whether to race or not - the horse alas does not have a choice. That said, I hope the jockey gets well soon.



Paul

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 17:38

msge 25



Spot on. Could not agree any more.



It is absolutely true that the jockey has a choice whereas the horse does not.



I can only conclude that there is some joy in a horse being stretched to its physical limit, that there is some possibility in it dying, otherwise the race would be shortened and the fences considerably lowered. It is all very well humans pushing themselves to thier limit, which we do often in extreme sports , but we have free will, animals do not.

Johnatcastle


Joined: 23/07/2009
Posts: 163

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 17:51

Not sure that if the horse didn't want to race then a jockey could make it???? Like the old saying "you can lead a horse to water etc, etc...... Have you seen a horse refuse at showjumping or pulling up at the national?

Anyway running and jumping is what horses love to do best is it not? Just like greyhounds and footballers........LOL..

Sorry to make light of a relatively serious subject.

Nobody WANTS the horses to die they are valuable assets to owners and trainers so it is not in their interest for harm to come of the horses. It's just a sad accident, no more, no less.

Oh and I beg to differ about animals having free will! They definitely do it's just we impose restrictions on that will, just like us and goverments............Oooh that was bit deep...sorry!

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 18:47

msge 27



'Oh and I beg to differ about animals having free will! They definitely do





My understanding is that animals have a very limited range of behaviours most of them would be based on impulse, directed by basic reactions to pain and pleasure. Hence the whip comes in very handy when the jockey wants to increase a horses speed. Instinctive behaviours get set by myelin straight after birth, hence thats why a horse can walk straight away and humans cant. The horse of course being a mammal is more inteligent than a mere reptile but we can bend its will by playing on its herding instinct. A horse with its mammalian brain has no defence against our powerful neo cortex.



That being said I wholeheartidly agree with you that that a horse likes to run and play, but humans plan to avoid accidents. If fences are lowered to prevent a death occuring, then this is humane and acceptable, however, if changes are not made then these should not be classed as accidents.

Ailletoo


Joined: 24/01/2009
Posts: 1003

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 19:23

Racoonchic, message 4, this surely is a non-sequeter?

Ailletoo


Joined: 24/01/2009
Posts: 1003

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 19:34

Hippo? ~We were discussing the Grand National were we not? Where then did the road accidents and starving millions come from. Methinks you drift from the original thread.... personally, staying on that skein of thought, I would like to exchange all of the lab animals used for testing drugs etc, for proven serial murderers etc. These people are costing the taxpayer a lot of money anyway so why not make sensible use of their stay at 'Her Majesty's' leisure?

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 20:35

Proven Serial Murderers have their rights, and would rightly object to any Tom Dick or Ailletoo trying to infringe upon them. The have been found guilty and sentenced by a (no doubt) sane judge and are banged up in solitary watching Eastenders and snooker like the rest of us.

Leave them alone, otherwise they will due due a nice slice of compo.....tax free of course.

Michael

Ailletoo


Joined: 24/01/2009
Posts: 1003

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 20:45

Oh gosh.. if they are forced to watch Eastenders... well..... ?

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 20:46

maybe the people who agree with horseracing should look at some of the links....stop horse slaughter etc...this is what happens to old or low performer racehorses !!! maybe as old as three :(if there were no horse racing then there would be no more breeding ...simple ! so no worries about who will look after them.

Ailletoo


Joined: 24/01/2009
Posts: 1003

Message Posted:
10/04/2011 20:47

A Sane Judge?.. I thought you had to prove yourself otherwise before having that anomaly bestowed on you....

CJtill


Joined: 02/05/2008
Posts: 836

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 09:43

I have heard it on good authority that some lifers are force fed repeats of Eastenders, along with all the old episodes of Noels houseparty and Blankety Blank. It would make the most hardened criminal go straight.

Give me an old fashioned Istanbul gaol anytime.

Michael

Johnatcastle


Joined: 23/07/2009
Posts: 163

Message Posted:
11/04/2011 21:28

Msg 28

I bow to your superior knowledge of animal behaviour....



On the flip side of that would you not agree that if a horse showed no aptitude for running and jumping whilst very junior then the trainers and owners would not forcibly try and re-train their natural instincts into that field. If it was obvious from an early age that a horse seriously disliked jumping and running then I am sure the trainers and owners would just avoid that horse and work with one that did??? This would make those horses that really hated running and jumping unlikely to compete in racing would it not.

Just like footballers......LOL

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
12/04/2011 12:00

msge 36



Believe me I do not know that much about animals, but I have been interested in Monty Roberts method of working with horses.



We definately both agree that horses are likely to enjoy running and jumping. Horses are useful, they have been domesticated for great effect, however they have also been used in war. I wonder how many horses during the first world war thought, hey lets get at the bosh, they could destroy all our chippies if we are not careful, and worse than that they will take over Western Europe. ;-)

The point is, the horses I am sure would not choose to launch themselves at an enemy, they have no conscious awareness of what is really going on. they are being led to their death by a horseman who knows he will probably die. He is fighting for a cause. The jockey is riding for fame and potential riches. He has weighed up the risk, a horse cant go through a risk analysis process. Well, I havent yet seen a horse with a calculator ;-)