Thatcher... now we reap the what was sown

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 19:55

Quote from Peston



"Chances are that this is the moment when future historians will say that the tide turned decisively against almost-anything-goes, laisser-faire financial capitalism (what was described yesterday as an important strand of Thatcherism) - which has been the prevailing ideology for almost 30 years."



quote ends....



Hopefully it's the last we'll see of the "Gordon Gekkos" and wide boys of banking and finance world.... maybe, maybe not

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 19:56

should have read



Thatcher... now we reap what was sown

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:13

Grouco,



It begins with B and it ends with s.



Thatcher stood for financial prudence, and spending within your means.



We have had 11 years of New Labour (aka Tory policies) spend, spend, spend, today The Bloody Man created another £250 Billion of tax payer debt. That is after almost bankrupting the Country, and loading it with PFI debt that will be a New Labour legacy of debt for the next 30 years.



Our Supreme Leader has done what he does best. Spent Billions of other peoples money

gambled it, on an Ego Trip that this poor Country, that we can ill afford.



It is not difficult to see why people are flocking from these shores in droves......Shameful!



wyn

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:20

Wyn,



"Thatcher stood for financial prudence, and spending within your means. "



Fluent bollocks

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:27

Thatcher stood for selling of council houses and getting people into debt with high mortgage rates. Hammering the unions.Creating mass unemployment.High interest rates,high inflation dont get me going.She only stayed in power thanks to the falklands war,

Paul.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:28

Groucho,



Shopkeepers daughter, steeped in it!



Until she became victim of the Westminster Spin machine.



Its history! What can't speak, can't lie.



Grouch, my friend, why are people flocking to leave these shores?



shameful,



wyn

brian24001


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 606

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:30

top marks Wyn,

Only real difference between the Mugabe regime and the Labour dictatorship is the Labour con team are too arrogant/stupid to even try to hide their incompetence and lying, but hey, if you can get one of the top jobs in a so called democracy without being elected then cash in quick! - The smiling assassin knew what he was doing bailing out.

If I were a Labour fat cat right now, I would stay well away from 'grassy knols'

Bottom line for anyone is if you can get out, do it now before the real rush begins.



As for Maggie, she stood for what Britain used to be, before the 'Great' had to be removed to avoid an EU fine for misrepresentation, make a decision, and stand by if, if it is wrong, take it on the chin, as long as the best decision is made with the information available at the time, a person can do no more.

One of her greatest decisions - "sink it" - I know you know to what I refer.

Would that kind of leadership be shown today - yes, but only by the French.

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:31

As I have said before the Tories understand and promote good business sense they dont dole out money they can't afford.

We will pay for this shambles of mismanagement for years.



Its funny the banking world are losing thier jobs what about this govenment owning up to this absolute castastrophe they have created and start to resign



or perhaps we should have another 10 years of this crap

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:42

Newlad,





Shagger Prescott the Pie is dead! There is a new order.



Arise Sir Peter of Hartlepool........the darkness awaits you!



Be afraid.....be very, very afraid! Woe is me! I fear for my grandchildren!



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 20:51

Paul,



Who is going to pay off the PFI debt (an invention of New Labour) that will be an off balance sheet burden, on this nation for 30 years.



We all know who took the credit for the new hospitals, new schools etc!



Who will pay off the debt?



wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 21:19

wyn.. We may have had 11years of NewLabour policies which you toally disaprove of because you were a Thatcherite business man who was aloud to get away with crimes of under paying his workforce ,dispensing with employees at the slightest whim.Thatscher who sold off the countries assets such as Electricity.Communications and railways,so her supporters could buy them at a fraction of there worth then make killions of profit within 12 months of purchasing them,fortunately for us her head gotto big and some of her friends decided enough was enough and got rid of her. Her legacyis sky high energy bills,fuel prices through the roof,railfares that are absolutely outrageous,phone bills that leave you speechless,and post offices being closed allover the country. As for her successors aka your supreme leader CameronI wouldnt trust him with my grand kids piggy bank......

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 21:23

Coachie,



An interesting analysis. Could I ask what you drink, because it may well be worth trying.



It isn't illegal is it?



wyn

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 21:25

No worse than what you drink Wyn Every one to ther e own(drinks and beliefs)...

rocky


Joined: 17/10/2007
Posts: 1749

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 21:33

Graucho I think Mr G Brown has indeed raped the seeds sown by Maggie Thatcher theres nothing left in the fields anymore, lets give her another 5 years as Prime Minister B4 she leaves us

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:22

As she's suffering from dementia I guess it's a good idea.... she could keep some of her cronies company



How short some memories are...



She said all sorts of prudent sounding things and then de-regulated like mad.. and laid the foundations of "the greedy shall inherit the Earth" philosophy that turned the UK into a nation of conspicous consumers



It certainly was not her inheriting of her father's shopkeeper attitude... fairly well known rumour has it he was disliked as a black-marketeer in Grantham during the war...

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:31

Coachie ...post 11

Perhaps you could enlighten us what this govenment has been doing for the last 11 years?, because it seems to me there is a constant blaming of the previous govenment when ever there is a crisis, 11 years for christ's sake.

Perhaps..... just perhaps they may try running the country and making a bit of wealth and saving a bit instead of playing poker with it.

jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:32

Wyn,



Don't disagree with some of the things you say, but Herr Thatchler's "financial prudence" was built on wasting the proceeds of North Sea Oil on paying for unemployment created by her policies. Don't disagree that union power was too great, but much as I think Arthur Scargill was an odious creature, the NUM didn't strike in 1984 over pay, it was over Thatcher's plan to close the pits. Why oh why are we the country with the largest coal reserves, but with practically the smallest coal industry? i say this as someone who thinks [reluctantly] that the only way to meet carbon emission limits is to develop nuclear power stations. What is very sad is that politicians of every persuasion have been "blind" to this for decades.

regards





Arthur

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:35

Groucho,

Well said .What an evil,despicable woman she was.She single handedly destroyed whole communities and familes which paved the way for the "yuppies" and "loads a money brigade.How ironic is it that we are going back to good old fashioned socialist values of nationalisation.If i was a betting man (and i am)i would be having a few quid on a certain scotsman from Govan to win the next election.Come on Gordon of Govan show them who is boss,

Paul.

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:03

Lady Thatcher dragged the UK out of the mire. It may be there was suffering along the way but the country finished up in a far better mode than that she took over. Her legacy was the low interest rates that followed after labour took over and improved on, but then destroyed by borrowing until the country is now bankrupt.



Unfortuantley what came after Lady T was the Gray Man (Major for none Spitting Image fans) Who did not have a clue. Then followed the idiot Blair whose sole aim was for him and the family to make a fortune at our expense.



When the next election arrives I will not be voting for the first time in 40 years. In the first instance Cameron is a total prat, second I would never vote for the Champagne Socialists ( they all spout socialism but act as Tories) third who else is there?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:17

"...a certain scotsman from Govan..."



You must be thinking of Rab C Nesbitt.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:17

Monster Raving Loony Party, oops sorry, I meant the Liberal Democrats.



Lem

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:20

Pikey,



Now you are talking. Put him up for election and he gets my vote.



As for you Lem, if Lord Sutch was on the ballot paper next election I would vote for him too. (No need for the additional comments, exactly why he is ideal!!)

jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:23

Now Rab C Nesbitt, the Govan Philosopher, that's my man!!

Regards





Arthur

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:30

Hi Dave



I didn't know he was dead. All very sad. I just looked him up in Wikipedia.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screaming_Lord_Sutch



Lem

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:35

It was a sad exit for him but I gather from "inside" info he had a very good life.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 22:37

Turtle..I work on the basis that they must have been doing something right orthevoting public would have ditched them after there first term in office,or it was that the other lot hadnt got a clue either.They did seem to have alot of internal problems at the time.They had three orwas it four changes of leader and still couldnt come up with any decent ideas.So the public decided "better the devil we know than the one we dont". I think some of what they have been doing might be..improving the NHS, making schools a lot better.improving on the anti terrorist laws,keeping inflation to its lowest level for years (until the latest problem blew up)If you want these things you have to pay for them and I am happy to pay my dues which Iam still doing after 53years of constant employment...I retied 2 years ago but work part time now...

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 22:48

Coachie,

Improving the NHS !! have you visited a hospital lately and if you think kids are being better educated then Im sorry mate but that is simply not true.

I dont mind paying my way also Ive fortunatly had 33 years continuous employment but I do object to wasteful spending on hairbrained ideas but as you say "better the DEVIL you know"......a pretty good choice of words !!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 22:51

Turtle,,



And some fell on stoney ground.!



wyn

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 23:48

Talking of the NHS and lack of education, I'd like to register a complaint about GP receptionists, rude ugly creatures.



I went in, gave my name and said I had a 5 o'clock appointment.



"Which Doctor?", she says.



"No, an ordinary one if that's possible", I reply.



Now, look, one does not expect that sort of language from GP receptionists !



Totally uncalled for and to cap it all when I see this NHS GP, he has the nerve to say,



"Haven't seen you for some time!"



"Well, I've been ill" I explain.



Didn't expect that sort of reaction either, call himself a GP.



Country's gone to the dogs.



Lem

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 23:51

A little levity! Enjoyed it!



wyn

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:26

Thank you Wyn.



I aim to please.



Lem

no1doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:33

Thats a liberty Lem, a bloody GP talking to you like that. Who do they think

They are, we keep them in a job!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:42

Lem,



I hope that you do, especially when you go to the loo!



wyn

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 10:06

As you have brought up the spectre of the NHS....



One of the truly awful policies of the Thatcher years was to take the US model for running hospitals and put accountants in charge... people with no idea about the ethos of free at the point of need and primary healthcare...



They removed the bastion of good nursing, the Ward Matron, and spent dosh on cost "cutting" exercises that essentally cost more in terms of money lost to healthcare provision than the money they were meant to save and leaving hospitals rudderless in the process....



Cleaners were the first to be of outsourced in the NHS and with no Ward Matron to keep them in check the hospitals have become a haven for MRSA... and other lovely infectious causes of hospital mayhem...



The percentage of hospital revenue spend has shifted from care to administration... wonder who benefits from that? Oh yeah, accountants... that's a surprise.... That's real progress.....

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:34

Spot on Grouch. Bring back the Matrons.

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 11:58

COACHIE



You appear to have a very short memory, you talk about Thatcher selling off the countries assets, I seem to remember that a man called Gordon Brown sold off a large chunk of our gold reserves when the price of gold was at a low.



Do you remember that??????????



Also I think you will find that when electricity companies were privatised all the companies were british it is in the lat 12 years or so that most of them have been taken over by foreign companies.



Many of our well known companies have in the last 12 years or so been taken over by foreign companies.



Is any of this coming back to you????

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 15:20

Loving cyprus.. I agree with you on the gold, as for the electricity companies being sold,they were not sold by the government but by the individual company boards.My statement meant they should never have privatised in the first placeAny service which is for the benefit of the nation whether it be energy,transport ,water,communications should stay in the hands of the government of the day.They then can set prices industry and the population have topay.You may wellthink that idea old fashioned and went out with Ark but Ireally believe if we had good quality bosses running those companies it could work.I think the only electric company the government have sold isBritish Energy ,the neuclear side,to the French compan EDF, who I believe are the world leaders in neuclear power stations, and the ones they bought are getting on a bit.I do believe the sale was so the money from the sale will be used to build anew generation of neuclear power plants which iI am in favour of....

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 17:36

Turtle



Your post no. 16 has hit the nail on the head, why do the Labour flock still persist in saying that such and such is because of the Conservatives.



It really is about time the Labour flock got a life and concentrate on what their corrupt (one example minister sacked twice and now in the House of Lords, talk about looking after their own) party has done whilst in power.



Let me just remind the flock that Labour have led us into 2 costly wars without giving the Armed Forces the proper tools to do the job and they have completely wrecked pension provision in private industry, yes they are all ok with their gold plated pensions but what about those who do dot benefit from this luxury.



I could go on and on

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 17:39

COACHIE



If you think that the government will use the proceeds of the sale of the nuclear power stations to build a new generation you are on a different planet to most of us.



Do the proceeds of Car tax all go to fund new road building??????????????



I wonder what your answer will be!!!!!!!!!!!

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 20:15

loving cyprus..I would like to think so but obviously you think pigs will fly first.I will watch the press and tv for any further info.but they will have to do something about the neuclear side of energy cos that is definately the road to go down. As for the road tax item that has never been spent on the roads dosnt matter which party was running the country.... I suppose our troops went to the Falklands with all the proper gear, Ithink not.As for pensions,it was the employers who wreck the private pension by abolishing final salary schemes so they could save more money for there shareholders.....

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:01

lovingcyprus



Labour didnt lead us into two wars alone, labour with full tory support did.We stupidly followed Bush to free Iraqi people? oil?,.Cant be too critical, after all we used the same self determination excuse for the Falklands.





lucky you, you have two tory parties to vote for .Away 30 yrs, would you know who was in power.



Child poverty one of worst in Europe.



Gap between rich and poor worse than Victorian London.



State pension worst in europe.Cyprus ,Estonia ,Romania!!



Longest working hours.Low wage economy ,thanks to ,unlike France and Germany, our open door policy to cheap foreign labour.



No control over, top salaries and "incentives", MP's pay& expences, but its only the peasants that are scroungers or abusing the system.

PAYE for most, pay as you want for the few.



Not enough taxpayers money for British Rail, but billions to keep 'efficient' private operators going.



Hospital cleaning,another nice earner for the pals.!







Tony Thatcher o

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:36

COACHIE



Clearly you don't understand the private pensions situation, yes the employers are abolishing final salary schemes, why because of the policies of the labour government, read up and see what Gordon did to private pension very shortly after they came to power in 1997, if you can't find out let me know and I will enlighten you. Employers have not abolished final salary schemes so that their shareholders can get larger dividends. Until 1997 the UK had one of the best provisions for pensions in the EU now we have just about the worst.



Did you ever read about our troops in the Falklands not having the proper equipment??? The answer is NO but you read virtually on a daily basis about lack of equipment for our forces in Afghanistan don't you, or perhaps you don't read the papers or listen to the news.

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:39

girne 29



Yeah I know labour had full tory support, that was based on false/suspect intelligence

jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 23:45

Lovingcyprus.



I don't have any affiliations, but some of your info re Falklands is wrong. First- Argentina had rattled the sable many times, but a Labour Gov't had made it known our submarines were in attendance which stopped them invading. When they did invade [because there was nothing to stop them], at least the Foreign Secretary had the good taste to resign, which the Defence Secretary John Nott didn't. If he had brought in the defence cuts he had proposed prior to The Falklands, there is no way we would have been able to regain it because we wouldn't have had the aircraft carriers. The fact is that if the then government had done their duty, we wouldn't have lost the soldiers, sailors, airmen and civilians that we did in 1982. It might not fit in with popular myth, but it's true.



Arthur

stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 01:33

Ive followed this thread with some interest.



Why is Mrs Thatcher getting the blame for what the current useless idiots are doing?



Regardless of your feelings towards Mrs Thatcher she took on the unions and beat them. Very cleverly gave people the right to own their own homes, something which was unheard of. the working man owning his own home? Fantastic idea. Yes there is a lack of council houses now but look at the amount of locally run councils who have sold off land to developers instead of building the houses themselves? All the money they invested in Icelandic banks, many millions, yet cut services and continue to put up council taxes and are always claiming to be under funded.



Dont get me started with the banking systems. Many of these banks have been making record profits for the last 5 or 6 years. As soon as they get 6 months of not so good business they go to the government to bail them out. What happened to the money they have been making over the years?

stubs


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 641

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 01:36

Furthermore why are the directors of the banks not charged with killing their own organisations. In typical politician ways i bet some are offered peerages at the house of lords.

mickey rourke


Joined: 27/08/2008
Posts: 157

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 08:30

Why the hell dont all you barrack room lawyers and aspiring political plonkers, instead of spouting off on here to a few sad forum junkies who have to read this pi** (including me) get off your asses (for Wyn) and go canvass the country to change the way we vote, maybe start a new party, put the GREAT back in Britain, kick Tory and Labour out, put the BNP - lib Dem - who ever the hell you like into power, or there again maybe's not, cos they will just turn out to be a greedy bunch of pocket lining idiots as well,

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 22:02

The thing I dont understand is why and how councils can syphon money away to banks overseas ??

The way I understand it councils empty thier bank accounts late in march (tax year end) then get thier new annual bugets from central govenment after 4th April for the next 12 months, so why is there money in banks when it should be spent on local services.

Council are not money making businesses they are there to look after the local community.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 22:20

turtle ..thats what we all thought .How wrong we were.Suppose the next thing is the council tax will have to go up.I suppose poor old Brown will get the blame for that as well....

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 22:31

poor old Brown, He,s the one that should be stopping this but as usual does absolutly ziltch.



Just as an after thought I had a call this afternoon at work it was a guy telling me that if I had a radio on at work for my staff to listen to then I am liable for charges to the performing rights people.............is this the start of more stealth taxes !!!!

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 22:44

Turtle,



We had just the same at work £350 or they have to work in silence.



You could'nt make it up!



wyn

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 23:18

The PRS was formed in 1914... it's hardly new...



I would not accept calls demanding money... it could be a scam...

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 23:21

Anyway,



Say you have a redio but only play the BBC World Service... they can't touch you... news does not come within the remit of the PRS



or



This company only employs deaf people...

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
16/10/2008 23:22

How much has council tax gone up since 1997, well COACHIE Brown and his cohorts have certainly got the blame for that and they will continue getting the blame for this tax.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
17/10/2008 00:02

As money halves every ten years I would expect it to have doubled at least...