Gordon Brown leads the way in the european financial recovery

fredred


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 21:42

Well done Gordon Brown, as the European governments have agreed to follow Britains lead - Throwing their banking systems a financial life line. This move was announced by the French President Nicolas Sarkosy as the current E. U. Head. He said E. U. Governments were ready to take stakes in banks, mirroring the move announced by Gordon Browns government last week.



Well done Gordon

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 21:52

Fredred..totally agree with you,and I really hope he pulls it off,cos if he does I can see him winning the next election....

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:04

fredread,



All Gordon has done, is what he has done for the last 11 years. namely.........................



spend money that the Country has not got, on matters bought about by his own reckless



spending, to put right matters, that had he have acted prudently in the first place, would not



have arisen, and will no doubt do what previous labour `governments have done. leave the



tab for someone else to pick up. That is despite a whole host of stealth taxes that he has



imposed, not to mention the PFI debt, that has just about bought this Country to a state of



bankrupcy, and leave this nation impoverished, and indebted to the IMF



IN SHORT.......GORDON HAS BORROWED THE MONEY!!!.........WHO AND HOW ARE WE



GOING TO PAY IT BACK!!



wyn

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:07

Wyn Spot on AGAIN



Do these people not ask themselves..............................who the hell is going to pay for all this ?

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:26

Turtle.. Why dont youwait and see.This money has only been lent to the banks,and of course they are having to pay interest no these loans.So when they pay back our government willrepay there debt. we will only pay if everything goes pear shape again, which some people are hoping will happen.Me,I am a little more optomistic and am prepared to give them a chance...

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:30

Hi Coachie,



The cheques in the post! Will you live longer enough to see it?



wyn

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:35

Coachie

You certainly have a lot more faith than I have

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:36

Wyn you seem to be confusing the losses made by the banks with public spending...



All the losses made causing the credit crunch have been as a result of greedy banks chasing profits that were not there to be had... they lent money in the form of mortgages (or more correctly bought the secondhand rights to the mortgages) to bad risks during a period when house prices were bound to reverse... having reached silly heights that can never be sustained year on year without somebody falling foul of it...



Not due to the UK Government spending tax payers money..



However now that the banks are in such bad-debt crisis the UK Gov are forced to bail them out or see total meltdown...



Which would you prefer... remember given your answer you stand to lose every penny invested in UK fiancial institutions...



I'm for letting them go... but sympathise with those who will lose their life savings...

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:43

The thread was....



Gordon Brown leads the way to European Financial Recovery.



I made the point what recovery? I see increased debt (vast amounts without any upper limit), to be repaid, when?, and by whom?



simple,



Its called Economics, Simple......Mrs Thatcher showed us the way...Live within your means!



wyn

fredred


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 22:56

Wyn



It is a fact that the E. U Governments are following the lead of Gordon Browns Government, as far as Mrs Thatcher showing us the way, yes I remember the economic measures she took, the rundown of the Hospitals, Schools, and taking the school milk away from the Kids.

fredred


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:04

Wyn



It is a fact that the E. U Governments are following the lead of Gordon Browns Government, as far as Mrs Thatcher showing us the way, yes I remember the economic measures she took, the rundown of the Hospitals, Schools, and taking the school milk away from the Kids.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:07

I'm not sure that an economic policy of flogging off the national family silver to all and sundry including foreign banks and companies and introducing the poll tax where the Duke of Westminster paid just as much as the chap who emptied his bins is the right way to go. In the end the Tories realised she was not only mad but a total liability and got rid of her. Labour didn't remove Margaret Thatcher, her own party did!



Lem

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:09

In football parlance this and other thread is a case of - here we go, here we go, here we go.



Becuase Labour and Brown are in deep brown stuff let us blame Lady Thatcher!!! You cannot take the blame for your own actions and always refer back to someone who was last PM 18 years ago!!!!!!!!!!!



As labour have been in power for 11 years now the only people who can be blamed are the politicians who screwed up policies during those years, not through any time before that.

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:24

Thats a good point, david, may I also add, with all these clever chappies drawing huge salaries as financial advisors, why didn't anyone spot this crises coming?



All those clever bankers on huge bonuses reduced to knocking on the government's door for tax payers cash to bail them out.



If the country goes into a painful recession it will be them who will be blamed. Could be a few more new faces in North Cyprus.



Lem

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
13/10/2008 23:30

Quite right Lem, why didn't the govenment see this coming ?

Because they havn't got a clue.

Sweeden, Canada & Australia dont have this problem and they did regulate thier banks.

fredred


Joined: 09/12/2007
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 08:33

America Government is now to adopt the Gordon Brown plan to buy stakes in the American banks.



Well done Gordon Brown

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 08:34

i see it as the blind leading the blind.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 08:39

The current policies for banking were those largely introduced as part of Mrs T's term in office... they've been getting away with it for 30 years... self regulation was put forward as the proper redress.... well that works really well... err NOT!



If you read the Peston (BBC) column you will get an idea of the timeline...



Yes it's wrong that nothing has been done in the meantime and the present administration should have done better and introduced proper regulation but given the clout the banks have to counter any threat to take away their toys, it must be a very daunting prospect for any government...



The banks have the power to humble even the strongest adherent to the view that their power needed to be curbed.... Instead it is taking a finiancial disaster to bring it to fruition... we can only hope that it does... I'm not holding my breath.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 09:27

Good post Groucho.

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 12:45

Sorry I am a little thick on this, but if all the countries are having to bail out their own fianancial insitutions.



Where are they borrowing the money from?



Seems to me no one has it to loan anyway, and if they did, cause someone must have had it otherwise we wouldn't need it to pay them back, why are we the tax payer still out of pocket and will be expected to pay this money back. Why can't the financial insitutions pay it back the brag about their profits every year!



I read that it was loaning the money as China are really rich as the have made a fortune out of slave labour, and we would all be in big trouble if China pulled in this debt would take over the world.





Nostradamus and a yellow race taking over the world !!!

Well it makes me think!

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 12:47

Appologies for the mistakes, ust ave a dogy ebrd

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 14:27

Turtle..I have abit more faith than you or wyn,and its beginning to pay off.The FTSE up 8% yesterday and a further 4% this morning so the "SupremeLeader" must be doing something right.And like one previous post stated msg.8 nothe fault of this government but greedy bankers and financial advisers most of them being ardent Thatcherites. Mrs Thatcher didnt invent the Live Within Your Means policy Wyn,Ifshe did itwas only for the working classes,the other half could rob you blind ..... ie mortgage consultants ,insurance brokers etc. My cousun was one of the latter,and thought maggie was the best thing since sliced bread,but when he had asevere illness it was not maggies lot who he went to cap in hand for benefits but my lot who will look after him....

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 14:34

gillken,



Beware the yellow peril!



I work extensively with Chinese companies on electrical produts.

What I have seen is a highly educated workforce, who are now leading the world on high tec

products. They are backed up by a workforce who will work for "peanuts" in world terms.

A Company that I first worked with 5 years ago who had 38 workforce, now has a workforce

of over 1800. They are totally committed to the work ethic and are quite brutal in its implementation.



They now have what they term a middle class, that has gradually become westernised. They want to travel, have holidays, buy cars(god forbid) eat a more westernised diet. To achieve

this they literally dump their products on world markets. This they have to date done very successfully. When they cant afford to pay the very low wages, production is switched to labour camps, which are brutal, and when they pay nothing to the inmates, who are usually incarcerated for "crimes against the state" (read criticising th

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 14:49

the Government)



The problems will come in my opinion, when we face a world recession.

They need world markets to supply, but when these dissappear, so to will the jobs.

Do you think what was a peasant workforce will be prepared to return to the rice paddies,

and subsistance living, after living in modern high rise flats enjoying their westernised existence

of eating out, nightclubbing, with money in their pockets.



The Chinese already have over a million men under arms, and as we have seen, are quite prepared to use them (Tiannemen Square).



They are gobbling up world rescources, and in the process becoming one of the richest nations on earth. It is an enormous mouth to feed, and their markets are the West.



Meanwhile on a daily basis, we loose jobs to them.We close our factories and the only things that we export, are jobs. Our Social services expand as does our Health services. They are the envy of the world, and that is why we have so much inward immigration. Why do no

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 14:58

not these people flood to China?



I think that we are going to enter world recession, and then God only preserve us .Markets will shrink, and worldwide unemployment wii be rife. What will happen with the Chinese miracle then? Indian is also not so far behind.



This is the money that Bush and Brown are borrowing, but for how much longer.



Beware the Yellow Peril!



wyn...............................(just my view, that is all)

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 15:05

What has smoked haddock got to do with it?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 15:16

coachie,



I note your with interest your posting msg 22.I think that your analysis of the problems facing us, is too shallow.



IMHO the problem is Bush and Brown are borrowing on world markets, more than our economies can afford. The United States Dollar, and the Pound Sterling are knocking on the doors of bankrupcy. Years of overspending by our Governments.



We are now going cap in hand to Countries to finance us, that we would have been best to avoid.



Tax and spend has always been a labour perogative. Now we have to reap what we have sown. I hope this last throw of the dice works! Good housekeeping and saving more than we spend, is the only way. Now who was it that said that?



wyn

JimmyG


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 900

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 15:38

Lem & Turtle - why didn't anyone see this coming ? Vince Cable of the LibDems had been warning Parliament for years of the inevitability of this situation occurring but unfortunately his warnings fell on deaf ears, but then the Government of the day always knows best doesn't it ?

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 15:40

Wyn...Very interesting post about "beware the yellow peril" but dont you think if greedy business men who went there to buy things at rock bottom prices and sell them here for top dollar are just alittle to blame..Some of ourbiggest names in industry ie JCB Wedgewood,RoyalDoulton Norwich Union RoyalSun Alliance,are but a few of the companies that come to mind,who have made thousands redundant just to make more profit.It used to be once that if a company made a profit the workforce used to share inthat success,not any more.Just the fat cat bosses.The workforce is more likely to be made redundant aka JCB,also if a company was successful there used be further employment, that too has gone out the window. It is a getmore done for less money and less manpower culture that is ruining our industries along with those who want to see "Made In China" stamped on the bottom of Everything you buy....

gillken


Joined: 25/05/2008
Posts: 521

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 19:57

Thankyou Wyn.



Pretty scary stuff.



Gill

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 20:55

JimmyG

Its a pity the LibDems dont have a bit more credibility at the moment or they would probably walk into Downing St ?

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 21:36

Gillken,



I appologise if I have expressed my views too forcibly. I am afraid that reality overwhelms the diet of nonsense that we have been fed.. I personally remain of the view that international cooperation is the only way forward!



I remain a man of good faith, and I would do whatever it takes to be a good neighbour'



I concur with the views of Vince Cable, Liberal Democrat, whose opinions I find the most acceptable, though they will have no opportunity of holding Office.



Gillken, be of good faith, respect your fellow man, be a good neighbour, walk the path of the righteousness, where all men count with you, but not too much!



I think circumstances are somewhat beyond the individuals controls. Remain true to yourself.



May your Gods go with you.



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
14/10/2008 21:56

I need a pint of Efes and a large dose of sunshine. That is what the TRNC is good for;



I offer my very best to Mr Talat and Mr Christophias.



May they travel light, and may there Gods be with them.



wyn

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 00:18

Coachie,Msg 29,



I appologise if you find reality so disturbing. I have made my point, and I do not like it any more than you!



It is beyond party politics. It is the politicians who laid the ground rules, and it is Labour who have held the reins of power for the last 11 years.



Fact!



wyn

Nunu1


Joined: 31/03/2008
Posts: 536

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 01:20

I vote for Wyn on the next General Election!



Wyn you speak well......you talk sense I so wish people would wake up in UK!



YOU are RIGHT! Like I always have said, Labour are good at borrowing and spending other peoples money trying to look clever and almost squeecky clean!



But its just credit and it will have to be paid back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Hence Browns Secret little office of BEAN counters will have to come up with yet another Stealth Tax!



I hate the LABOUR GOVERNMENT AND THE DAMAGE THEY HAVE DONE TO THE UK!!!!



They are a disgrace!!



nunu



YES MR Gordon Brown and you T Blair..... I hope you read this!!!

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 13:33

Why do people who want to return to Thatcherism,though we never left it,think the rest of us need to wake up,like we were somehow simple. I lived then and still

Anyway there is no difference between the parties, which is why the pals in the city have got away with murder ,regardless of who is in power.





After the 'devil take the hindmost' and' loadsamoney philosophy', whats left now .

We had better hope the financial institutions are up and running as there is not a lot else that we earn money from.



Coachie, spot on.

But nobody gives a damn, until THEY lose there jobs, or because they dont need to work .Again devil take the hindmost,except when shareholders want bailing out!



We pay the highest fuel prices and held to ransom but have huge reserves of coal that we cant use .Surely if she wanted to punish the miners there was a better way to do it, than to decimate a whole industry that we could do with now.

Cheap coal imports, where now!

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 14:40

girne29.. ther are no cheap coal imports any more.When Budge Mining were given the Stafforshire Coalfields for nothing,he closed one one of the biggest coalfields in europe because he had to make a small detour around a village where all the top business men of Stoke _on_Tren lived,Because that was going to cost him money he closed down the mine with over 500 milliontons of coal there and that happened in other parts of the country as well.

We used to have several large mines here now we have none. When Germany got caught in the seventies with oil crisis she converted most of her popwer statios back to coal because it was notgoing to happen again and like us it has millions of tons of coal and it has less dependansy on oil..

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 14:48

Mr Brown stepped up to the plate and showed the world what to do. Even that gets him knocked.



Greed is the main cause.





Have a nice day ya all.

phylray



Joined: 21/09/2007
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:40

"A Gordon for me.." Best years we've ever had, economically. Now there

is global problem, and I can't see anyone better to deal with it.

All the people I speak to (mainly those who have seen much) appreciate

him. He is a very clever man, in my humble opinion, and not to be

underestimated.

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 21:44

Tiggy,



I would have preferred it if he had stepped onto the trap door, and done us all a favour!



I guess its a case of "You can fool some of the people some of the time" etc...etc..



wyn

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 22:24

How this for a cracking analogy?



"Ordinary Icelanders are no more responsible for the risk-seeking businessmen who happen to hold our passport than the people of north London are responsible for the destructive behaviour of the talented Amy Winehouse," said Icelandic professor Eirikur Bergmann Einarsson in the Guardian.



Amy must be thrilled that she's been dragged into the Credit Crunch!



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7667920.stm

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
15/10/2008 22:28

Must be because nobody would want to listen to Bjork..



Maybe she should re-cover "It's Oh So Quiet" but this time use its proper title "Blow a Fuse" which is altogether more appropriate...