Illegal Workers in North Cyprus

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 15:37

As a company I rarely visit this site as most of the time there are a lot of negative comments which can affect the lives of people. Real people who I and other companies work with on a regular basis. Some of these people are personal friends. The last post is asking for the names of Property Management Companies. For anyone looking for any service rather than take the word of others why do you not just make contact with the recommended companies and find out for yourself. In turn ask if they are registered and legal.Rather than take the word of a mate of a mate in a bar who is doing it on the side. Yes of course they will be cheaper, but they do not have the office rent, staff salaries, commercial outgoing costs and the taxes we all have to pay. You may all know a bloke called Dave an electrician, well watch your back Dave as I am sure the tax office want to meet you. I am sick and tired of others who have nothing better to do than slate others. Sandra Gunduz Abode Property Management

gates


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 15:56

well said lets watch things now as they are hoting up and this country need our taxes to police roads and so much more that all the expats moan about fully behind you

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 16:03

msg1........Now That is how to Gripe ....Well done....Couldn't agree more

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 16:20

I totally agree with Msg 1. HOWEVER, about three months ago the Government said that we "the customer" should not ask people without Work Permits to do work for us and should always go to TC's first and not Ex-pats etc who have no Work Permits. I would do this if I thought for one minute that all TC's pay their taxes, which they clearly do not. It is usually money from the pack pocket when change is needed after payment for work carried out. No receipt is given, hence no tax is paid. The Government cannot have it both ways, much as they would like it!!



Tango1

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 16:24

An excellent post maria1

If all the taxes were paid from illegal dealings, including bars not ringing up each transaction, this country might be able to pay its own wages bill.

Unfortunately, the rot starts from the top with brother employing brother and there is rife nepotism in all walks of government. Start from the top before criticizing the little man trying to earn a crust, then work downwards, i.e. let the government lead by example.

But then again, do you think the rest will follow ?

In all countries, the black economy is endemic and will never be cleaned up. That is sad for all you people who are trying to make a living by being honest in your businesses.

Gerry

gates


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 17:29

i realy think this country is suffering the same as uk did years ago and still does it has all cost us well all we earn and the money we put in but came here knowing it was not going to be a bunch of roses and evan though it has cost me because i got involved with the wrong people and that is one part of our buisness iwe are sorting out i can still hold my head up and say i contribute to the paradise i like and would always try to help it in any way i can as i dont want to go back to uk and if it cost every penny i earn i will stay and live here and it has cost a lot in most cases the money some people have lost in houses so good old north cyprus i hope it stays as it is no euro

yenibob


Joined: 13/10/2010
Posts: 1203

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 18:00

Lets widen this to include all of those ripping off the country they decided to live in! What about all the cheating so and so's driving UK and GC registered vehicles? If you believe them to be breaking the law.....Shop them, it is the decent thing to do to scum bags who are stealing from the country.



Of course if they are within the law....no problem.



Lets start a campaign to support those that are trying to live within the law. Residency is a pain, but it is the Law....Live with it or admit to being a cheat.



The Government should clamp down on the 90 day clowns, deport them!!

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 18:15

Yenibob Msg.7 I so agree with you. I get sick to death of listening to all the people I meet who clearly think I/we are stupid for trying to obey the Laws here and openly gloat about how they get away with this, that and the other. However Msg.7 I gather from a number of posts on other Forums and this one that it is no longer illegal to go down South and they are not disobeying the law in order to obtain their 90 days and hence "they" think I'm doubly stupid!!!



I also have a gripe about some of the people who run stalls etc at various Markets around the place. Last year the Government said "we are not after retired Ex-pats who sell pies etc once a week" However, a lot of the stalls at Lambousa and I suspect other markets are run by people not of retirement age, and some of them I know for certain look upon their stalls as a regular source of income, for which they contribute nothing whatever in the way of taxes. Many of whom are TC's as well.



Tango1

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 18:16

Thanks for all of your comments. I really do not have an issue with people trying to make a living. My issue is with people out there who are totally selfish and out for themselves. I understand how hard it is and yes if only the government would allow residents to be able to work part time and pay a contribution of tax. That would be a major help to the economy. As a company we employ 10 staff including myself and my husband. We would dearly love to employ local Cypriot people but cannot find them for love nor money. Our staff are from Turkey, Pakistan and UK and because of this we pay an even higher rate of tax. I started this conversation out of anger as a certain person has acted in a totally selfish manner and lost me a valued client. It has taken over 8 years to build our business and now have a client base of over 200 clients, however it can take seconds to destroy it. I just hope people think more carefully before they open their mouths.



Back to top

yenibob


Joined: 13/10/2010
Posts: 1203

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 18:22

I think we need to go after the thieves who do not pay their fair share, (residency, vehicles or work). I will start another thread where people can name and shame the cheats. ( The powers that be may or not monitor this site, but I can cut and paste it for them)



Lets get after the leeches who want to live here and pay nothing in!!!!

yenibob


Joined: 13/10/2010
Posts: 1203

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 18:50

This one needs to stay live. If you know a cheat..... have the courage to deal with it.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 18:51

So what about the aggrieved new 'alien' settlers who decided to reside here, invest their money in many areas, then find the rug been pulled from under their feet? A couple of examples; first time buyers of property were able to import one car tax free but the law changed overnight so those that had a car in sea transit had a hefty bill to pay on collection. A few years later, the car had to be under three years old or was impounded, never to be seen again, once again without notice. Secondly, those that went for 'residency' after 5 years of annual 'temporary visitor' status, ensuring not being out of the Country for more than 90 days within the 'stamped' year found out the whole excercise was pointless as that law was also rescinded overnight and no longer applies!

So, good luck to those that abuse the system and get away with it as you'll only get shafted by a corrupt, xenophobic Government whichever way you turn!



Richard

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 18:57

Do not fret I am more than capable of fending for myself.Those who know me know I can be outspokenwhen I want to be. In this instance the chap I am annoyed with does have a work permit but it is his ignorance, arrogance and total lack of respect that I am furious about. Hence if people just think before they speak.

























back to top

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 20:00

Brinsley



to a certain extent I am with you on this one when you have paid your taxes and done everything by the book you are only ripped off time and time again through the corruptness and greed of the so called individuals so much so it would make people want to buck the system.



The majority I know came here payng their dues and complying with everything only as Brinsley says to get shafted and not just by the builders!



If yenibob wants to name and shame leeches which sort or which nationality are we talking about!

Jeannie


Joined: 04/08/2009
Posts: 3283

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 20:07

I, too, agree to some extent with posts 13 & 14.



How many people came here, as pointed out by Honestie, doing everything 'by the book' and having been shafted time and time again, thought "what's sauce for the goose, etc. etc."?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 21:19

The Wicks

I cooked a lovely goose last Christmas Day for the family and it got well shafted up the derriere with a good stuffing!!



Richard

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 21:52

Richard,

Was that a case of "Requiescat in Paxo"?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 21:58

What laws are we talking about? as far as I can see the TRNC have no Laws! at least any laws that are either respected or implemented!



The Government instead ripping off the ex pats need to look inward at their own corruption! will they? I think not they will laugh all the way to the bank!!!!!!!!!!!! along with their Estate Agents, their Builders, their Landowners! their Property Management Company's?



maria1 (mess 1) Sandra Gunduz of Abode Property Management there are no winners in the TRNC, because their have been too many losers in the past 7 years! but good luck with your company!

deeom


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 62

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 23:46

our friends had some work done by a man claiming to be a painter, needed to get the house redone and ended up paying twice, this mans wife Janice cleans villas and even the daughters work without permits. The whole family are at it!! He also does pools, but after the bad work our friend reported him. It will be interesting to see what happens!

Dee

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/05/2011 23:55

Msg 19 ,but they employed him

knowing he had no legal company?

like buying knocked off goods then complaining

Blackpoolfan


Joined: 03/12/2008
Posts: 1568

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 01:15

Message 20,



Exactly

yenibob


Joined: 13/10/2010
Posts: 1203

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 07:16

Of course I realise that this is a banana Republic that is pretty much useless at everything (I think all the educated (sensible) "locals" are in London).



Do we think it will get better if we shaft what systems there are?



How is anything paid for if we don't pay our way?



What do you reckon the locals think of us when they see us stealing their work or driving round in foreign cars to save a few quid?



It's a cop out to say why should I pay? What has the TRNC done for/to me?



I have no doubt the cheats and thieves will be back on here today defending their dishonesty.



Look out.........You may well be reported.



Numbers for reporting illegal workers.......227 5048 229 0037 229 0038

berilela


Joined: 17/07/2010
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 07:32

all the window cleaners i know of are illegal to especially the one that turns up driving and still pissed goes by the name of dave o conner

deeom


Joined: 17/03/2009
Posts: 62

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 08:06

message 20:



I know, my thoughts too, but my mate was taken in by the fact that he was a Brit and would not rip him off!!

Ha ha!!



Dee

wormy



Joined: 24/05/2010
Posts: 31

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 09:30

msg 22: .........." or driving round in foreign cars to save a few quid"



don't live there but am wondering what make of car would be classed as "locally made"?

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 09:35

I think yenibob means foreign registered cars wormy.

nostradamus


Joined: 15/04/2008
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 09:45

I'm interested in the idea of employing Turkish Cypriot workers. I have, over many years, had a lot of workers in my house and I could count on the fingers of one hand the number that have been TCs. Almost all them have been Turkish, Kurdish and other nationalities. If you come back across the border at about 4 o'clock in any afternoon, you will see hordes of TC building workers crossing back from their jobs in the south! A local carpentry company, who did work for me, lost more than half of their workers as soon as the border opened because they simply couldn't afford to compete with the wages paid in the south. In short, Turkish Cypriots work for the government by choice for the inflated salaries and pensions that they receive, they work in the south, they leave the country for the UK and other destinations or they live off the money that they have made from selling land to foreigners. Even the original poster of this thread can't find local workers so how would we?

yenibob


Joined: 13/10/2010
Posts: 1203

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 10:10

nostradamus, I do not believe workers have to be TCs, I would settle for legal, and any nationality can be that.

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 10:21

Thank you all for your messages but I think enough has now been said on the issue. Messages 27 and 28 say it all. I did not intend this to be a name and shame campaign.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 10:39

maria 1 I agree with you and a name and shame oinly brings out the worst in people especially on this forum.



there are ways and means to shame !

yenibob


Joined: 13/10/2010
Posts: 1203

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 10:59

I am not advocating Name and Shame on a gossip ridden internet board. Far better, if you have evidence, go to the authorities and report the cheats properly.



Illegal Taxi drivers would be an easy place to start. They have no insurance and in the main do not seem to be cheaper......Why would anyone risk using them?

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 11:10

Sorry yenibob that is exactly what you were advocating in your message 10.



Agree that they should be reported through the correct authorities.

yenibob


Joined: 13/10/2010
Posts: 1203

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 11:13

My error Pugwash, you are exactly right,

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 11:54

Message 21 clearly misses the irony in message 20.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 12:00

mess 1 - the reason so many brits are working illegaly is that the dream of moving to the sun has turned into a nightmare and its a case of having to..........



if he trnc had a proper legal system, then perhaps it wouldn't be in the mess its in now..............

Maz


Joined: 29/03/2009
Posts: 1924

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 12:01

Nostradamus talks sense . I know very few TC workers other than some garage proprietors. But one thing that I cannot see an answer to is simply this. How do these people get work permits.

To get a work permit you must have a boss. Problem. If you do lots of little jobs you need a work permit for each one, but it can't be done.

If you don't have a work permit then you need to have a business. That costs thousands of pounds to set up, so that is not an avenue.

so how do these workers solve these problems if the government won't give them a way to be legal. also of course, I am inclined to agree that without the illegal workers it can be difficult to find someone to do the job. my neighbour who is Turkish and has loads of land given by the government, builds on that land and uses cheap labour of.... yes you guessed it... illegal workers - and they aren't Brits.

Answers anyone?

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 12:09

The Black Economy here and in the UK are different.



In the UK, people work for cash, pay no taxes while claiming benefits.

In the TRNC people work for cash, pay no taxes, but don't/can't claim benefits.



Not saying it's right, just not quite on the same scale here as it is in the UK.

spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 12:15

They were at one time trying to stop people from picking their own relatives up from the airport ant one time, how crazy it that...Only in the TRNC..







Spider,X

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 14:23

just waiting for the "we love it herer" gang to start

nostradamus


Joined: 15/04/2008
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 15:59

I think that the 'name and shame' brigade are missing the point somewhat. If I want somebody to do a small job around my property, can I get a Turkish Cypriot? No, very unlikely for my previously stated reasons. The choice is between Turkish mainlanders or an assortment of foreigners. Do any of these people have work permits? Also very unlikely because they can't. So how am I supposed to get my job done? I am only interested in the capabilities of the person who does the job. The way they run their working lives in respect of tax and work permits is not my business is it? I certainly wouldn't entertain the idea of 'shopping' anyone to the authorities as I consider that this kind of behaviour to be, frankly, despicable. Moaning about the loss of income to the government here is ludicrous when the government are the number one culprits for the state that the economy is in.

stellasstar1



Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 1519

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 16:31

No one has mentioned that a lot of people would happily work legally, if they had the same system as many other countries, where you could be self employed, do your own books, and pay the relevant amount of taxes. Unfortunately they don't have this system here, only the very expensive alternative of paying a huge amount of money to have your own company. If someone is only doing the odd job here and there to make a bit of pocket money and to help with the finance's, it doesn't make sense (financially) to go through the lengthy and expensive process of starting a business. So why doesn't the Government allow people to be self employed?

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 17:43

How right Stella, the first year here working all hours we made a loss as you expect to in the first year. We had a tax bill of 7.560 pounds. When we asked and explained that we didnt expect to pay tax on a loss they said well you have lived havent you, you eat dont you. Says it all.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 18:53

msg 35;

"if he trnc had a proper legal system, then perhaps it wouldn't be in the mess its in now.............."

You may have a case,based on above,

However,most of you had come and bought here not because you wanted to live and WORK here,but because the property prices were cheap,high interest rates..........to the point selling your 2 up 2 down house/masionette in uk was enough to buy yourself a 'villa' and have enough interest from the left over to live on!Fact!!!Now,unfortunately in your cases the tables have turned around,cost of living has gone up,interest rates are 1/3 of what they used to be......you no longer have 'enough' return (if you have any left) to live on.But,you still carry on living in denial and instead of taking some blame(at least) for your actions,you choose to blame ie.the government.

Well,until the day any of you in this situation start admitting that your dreams didn't materialise,you will get no sympaty nor any respect from me.

gates


Joined: 08/12/2008
Posts: 1096

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 19:00

thats it lilli if you make a loss you still pay tax stamp and the rest thats why we all carry on even though the ones that have never bothered and the ones that support them dont understand and you cant tell them because they think you are telling porkies you come here to work you pay if you dont you should have stayed at home remeber all the fire man stikes put your hand in your pocket give us a bit more what they doing now funny old world see what the fire man live in here a lovly caravan in girne and getting some of your tax money lilli

elkiton



Joined: 15/03/2009
Posts: 514

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 20:18

just waiting for the "we love it herer" gang to start



No need to Nick, too busy enjoying life to waste time arguing the point.



TonyE

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 20:43

Msg 43,

I couldn't agree more.

baldy


Joined: 18/11/2008
Posts: 70

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 21:06

yorgozle msg 43. I agree 100% with every aspect of your post. As I agree totally with maria1 in msg 1.

birdy



Joined: 21/07/2009
Posts: 154

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 21:08

Totally agree with nostradamus msg 40 A grass should be smashed with a baseball bat

metin


Joined: 08/09/2008
Posts: 1588

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 21:39

Beware of reporting anyone as your name is not kept secret !!!!i It is not supposed to be revealed who has reported you to the tax man, but in several cases that I am aware of , the paperwork was shown to the parties concerned.



So if you report someone, beware of the backlash.

metin


Joined: 08/09/2008
Posts: 1588

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 21:40

Beware of reporting anyone as your name is not kept secret !!!!i It is not supposed to be revealed who has reported you to the tax man, but in several cases that I am aware of , the paperwork was shown to the parties concerned.



So if you report someone, beware of the backlash.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 21:55

Elkiton (mess 45)



Then why do you post? just go and enjoy

happyhere


Joined: 11/05/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 22:41

Lilli - Couldn't agree with you more, as having a business here, we have found the same. Accountant says 'you can't lose money, you have to make a profit' (the Government says). Hence more taxes etc the next year. Bank account none existent now!!! They will be driving all us legal workers/businesses out of the Country soon.

EsentepeGal


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 144

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 23:18

Worzel/Catweazle/Gaco - take your pick! MSG. 43



So You've A British passport but delight in knocking those same brits that provided you with a get out clause, had you any morals you'd hand in your British Passport and be PROUD being a Cypriot, but No!!, you want the best of both worlds, Wouldn't surprise me if you were claiming benefits from the UK.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 23:20

Msg 53 , strong words



without proof.?

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
05/05/2011 23:57

msg 53;

I will not bring myself down to your level.

But,if putting a light to where you had gone wrong is knocking,then I'd plead guilty.

As for my personnal info:My British citizenship was earnt whilst my father was serving 'your' queen in MY country,while 'you' were accupying it.I carry an official Cypriot ID in my wallet and use official Cypriot passaport on my overseas travels. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypriot_passport



If you need futher info regarding my personnal life,feel free to mail me,it's in my profile.

EsentepeGal


Joined: 12/09/2010
Posts: 144

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 00:43

Having seen your portly figure astride your Kawasaki around town, I have no interest in your Personal life!.



From your posting you make it clear that your Cypriot pass'a'port suffices, Can I take it that you have returned your British Passport to the relevant authorities as you quite clearly have no use for it?.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 01:07

>>>>>>>>>>>>>Having seen your portly figure astride your Kawasaki around town, I have no interest in your Personal life!.







From your posting you make it clear that your Cypriot pass'a'port suffices, Can I take it that you have returned your British Passport to the relevant authorities as you quite clearly have no use for it?. <<<<<<<<<,



You call that "not interested in my personal life"????.....or "rather interested"



Follow my posts here to find out where I also live.Feel free to pop over,I'll tell you all you need to know,over a coffee.

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 01:17

yorgozlu



what blame should we take for our actions I would love you to tell us. This thread was started as a discussion re illegal workers and lots of people wish to be legal but are unable to for the reasons given re the rules changing on a regular basis and as to who you know bla bla bla. I have always worked legally and done a business legally if I cant then I dont do it but to say we should take blame for our actions what blame?



why do you seem to have a go at foreigners either mainlanders or ex pats who work and live here if people have bought here as prices were good and could live off interest is that such a big problem .Surely they are bringing in more money to be spent in the country and certsinly do not take anything from the country. Neither do illegal workers because without having a work permit and no social sigorta being paid they can claim absolutely nothing so certainly no drain on societythere. What would you like to happen here please do enlighten us all

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 08:22

honestie;

I honestly apologise for the way the thread has gone.But,your question has to be to msg 35 as he must be sitting and waiting for someone to start a topic so he can come uip with his usual bla bla bla.

I have and cannot have anything against anyone trying to earn a living,like yourself ina normal,legal way.

Nor I'd have anything against anyone that has come over to TRNC and bought a property because it was cheap,despite knowing they (most) were built on disputed land.AND,all the while the going was good the 'nowhere better to live then TRNC' brigade are now living on 'devil's island'.

It has far gone the time to accept responsibilities for your own actions.Expecting to live off £50.000 worth of tl was too good dream to be true!Fact!!

As for mainlanders,I must have set up homes for nearly dozen mainland(legal) families,mainly through this forum,thanks to some of you guys.

Of course,the likes of you are not included in my above comments.cont

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 08:26

msg 59 cont;

Honesty is within.One has to be honest with oneself before anyone else.

Lets see how many will come out from their 'denial shell'!!

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 08:42

thnaks for your reply yorgozlu and the explanation. Think I can see where you are coming from just sometimes it comes across on your messages as if youy really dont like the foreigners however I agree if we dont like it here then leave but unfortunately for some ie the K5 they dont have thst choice . As was said before ,think the thread has been addressed and not the place to name and shame.



You are so correct Honesty is within and only oneself knows how honest they are

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 14:38

I think enough has been said and it is not for us to judge or get personal with each other. Sadly we have all been affected in one way or another with property issues, work permits, ptp's, business permits, builders etc etc. But are all very fortunate to live on a beautiful island with very little crime to speak of. Where else in the world can you drive around and see children walking along holding hands without an adult. There are no muggings, shootings, drugs. We all have to remember we are actually guests in another country and have to abide by the rules and regulations.



Again all I ask is that we show a little respect for the companies out there who are trying to make a living and not be so judgemental of them with harsh words.



It is a shame that we do not have the power to meet with the government and try to implement a way for people of all nationalities living here to be able to have a work permit if they wish and be able contribute towards the island's economy.

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 14:41

I think enough has been said and it is not for us to judge or get personal with each other. Sadly we have all been affected in one way or another with property issues, work permits, ptp's, business permits, builders etc etc. But are all very fortunate to live on a beautiful island with very little crime to speak of. Where else in the world can you drive around and see children walking along holding hands without an adult. There are no muggings, shootings, drugs. We all have to remember we are actually guests in another country and have to abide by the rules and regulations. Again all I ask is that we show a little respect for the companies out there who are trying to make a living and not be so judgemental of them with harsh words. It is a shame that we do not have the power to meet with the government and try to implement a way for people of all nationalities living here to be able to have a work permit if they wish and be able contribute towards the island's economy.

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metin


Joined: 08/09/2008
Posts: 1588

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 15:41

Very well said Maria. I hope this is the end of this thread now.

bugsy


Joined: 16/05/2009
Posts: 114

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 20:20

hey we all came here because it was cheap but we all bought our villas furnished them and spent loads of money to boost the economy and what do we get hostility and no deeds where in the world would they get awayt with that and we still have fundraising for their charities hey all we want is what we paid for is that too much to ask now theyre looking to other unsuspecting people as our resources are drying up

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 20:38

Msg 63

You're off the geiger counter on this one, "There are no muggings, shootings, drugs."! Do you get out, read the news, or live in a closeted cave?!



Richard

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 20:38

maria1 msg 63: "Where else in the world can you drive around and see children walking along holding hands without an adult. There are no muggings, shootings, drugs."

With respect it's easy to live in a bubble here until you become a crime victim yourself. Although crimes of disorder and anti-social behaviour are lower than the UK, and muggings are practically unheard of, child sex abuse, shootings and drugs are here and do get reported when they happen.

Of more concern to expats are the worrying new levels of theft by housebreaking, committed by some desperate criminals. Although most will flee if they can, there is always the chance of being seriously assaulted or raped in one's own home.

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/world/Expats-stabbed-to-death-in.2607924.jp

A few years ago an elderly British couple were murdered in their Lapta home and an old boy was killed in Kyrenia earlier. One of the best investments you can make is in home security and alarms.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 20:49

Msg 67

", child sex abuse,"

Ask the question, why do so many TC's suffer from the blood disorder, thalassemia? (Rhetorical)!



Richard

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 20:55

Msg 68, I know what you mean. The GCs get it as well. There's obviously been a lot of interbreeding between TCs and GCs over the centuries. A few years back when the checkpoints were still closed there were intercommunal blood donations with GCs coming forward to try and save the life of a young TC boy who sadly died. It was widely publicised at the time as showing how the communities could come together without the fanatics, one or two of whom can even creep onto these forums.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 20:58

Am I allowed to ask a question about what you are saying above zoots ? Or would merely asking for clarification be bullying you and seeking to restrict your right to free speech ?



You say "Although crimes of disorder and anti-social behaviour are lower than the UK, and muggings are practically unheard of, child sex abuse, shootings and drugs are here and do get reported when they happen. "



Do you mean that mugging and anti social behaviour and disorder are lower level in TRNC than UK, but child sex abuse , shootings and drugs are not ?



I just want to understand what you are saying because it appears the way you have written it that you have two sets of criminality one that you accept are at lower levels in TRNC than UK and a second set where it is not clear what you are saying in terms of compared to the UK.



Is that a fair question ? Will it get an answer ?

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:04

Msg 69

I've advocated this before on many occasions; DNA the whole population of the 'so called' TC's & GC's and the results will resolve and complete the 'final solution'!!!!



Richard

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:15

Brinsley it is a well know and widely accepted scientific fact that geneticaly GC and TC are more similar to each other than either is to populations within its respective 'motherlands'.



The problem is not one of genetic differences , or even acceptance of genetic similarites, but one of cultural differences.



Instances of thalassemia is one example where GC and TC have identical instances of this genetic heriditary dieses that is marked different from those found in either Greece or Turkey.



As to the connection between thalassemia and child sex abuse, I am not aware of what you mean. If you want to explain I will look at any credible evidence that there is a proven link between levels of thalassemia and those of child sex abuse. I know of none.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:37

Msg 72

Your erudite, knowledgeable resources breach no bounds! Try reading books rather than relying on google for your information.

Thalassemia (the Mediterranean disease) is a blood disorder which is genetically inherited from in-breeding within small family mountain villages and passed down through many decades.

But in simple terms for your very high IQ; Dad was 'popping' Mum and Daughter with the son doing Mum and Sister irrespective of age! The odd mountain goat had a filling aswell!

In Tudor times the age of consent was 12, ask Henry VIII !



Richard

Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:38

Richard,

At least it gave the goats a break.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:46

Brinsley are you REALLY claiming that there is a proven link between 'interbreeding' and 'child sex abuse' ? Can you offer any evidence for such a claim.



Marrying first cousins is common in Cyprus just as it is more common in France than say it is in the UK. Exactly the kind of interbreeding that will, if blood tests are not analysed before marriage, lead to increased occurances of all kinds of genetic disorders. However to say such close interbreeding correlates to a proven higher rate of child sex abuse is not supportable by any evidence I know of.



As I say France has a higher rate of marriages of first cousins than the UK. Are you saying that this then, before blood screeing of scuh marriges was required by law there (as it is in the TRNC these days) is proof that there are higher levels of child sex abuse in France than UK.



Come on. Some evidence please.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:52

This one is for you Richard



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93goat_sexual_intercourse

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:55

Msg 66 & 67 I do not live in a cave or bubble. In my previous life before here worked in a very real world as a housing officer from sheltered housing to general needs. Covering all aspects of housing. I have dealt with serious crimes that have involved child abuse,rape, elder abuse and have had the police with me with full riot gear when my head was up against a wall and being threatened to be smashed to bits by 6 violent women. The house had to be sitexed after they totally trashed it. Yes we do have a small amount of crime here but we do not hear of 16 year olds going to buy a packet of chips and getting shot in the head. If there are shootings here they tend to be contained and are personal attacks because the victim may owe gambling debts or got caught out by his lovers husband. Yes sadly an elderly couple were murdered and an older gentleman too. Last week a man beaten badly in his own home. Anyway am bored now with listening to the abusive racist remarks.

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Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 21:57

Msg 75



"Come on. Some evidence please."

I have 70 million girlfriends in my Country, NZ. They all have the same name, Babara and look exactly the same!

But because of genetic disorders found in them, I froze a lot of them for export to the UK and created mental health chaos through the food chain. In your case its worked!



Richard

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 22:02

Msg 76

That's all Billy to me!



Richard

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 22:11

Ahh nothing like adult reasoned deabte. And this is clearly nothing like adult reasoned deabte.



Yet the 'slur' that it is a proven fact that child abuse is higher in cyprus than say the UK remains , without any evidence provided.



Any people wonder why I get annoyed at such posts and even more so when made over many years always slurring the same entities or groups or indivduals.



Ho Hum.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 22:17

Erolz;

"However to say such close interbreeding correlates to a proven higher rate of child sex abuse is not supportable by any evidence I know of."



There aren't.That's because it never happened.........not within Cypriots.

Blood test requirement before marriage has been here for as long as I remember,to the point,I and my 'Irish' wife had to have it done here as well,before being allowed for marriage.

And,I find the labelling of "interbreeding" a rather harsh word to use where our grandparents with alot less educational levels,as opposed to today,had always gone with the idea of 'better the devil we know' in those days........

Basically Richard;blood related marriages was a common thing in a small population of Cyprus.As for 'mother and son/father and doughter............well,thats just disspicable to say the least.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 22:23

Just to get back on topic: our favourite Australian bard, who, incidentally, allegedly didn't have a 'Green Card', so was illegally working in the USA on his tour, had this melodic advice about incest!



'Nicey-Nice' people may be slightly alarmed at the content of this link - so, if you're a tad sensitive, don't 'click'!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DwCQc4D6ws

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 22:44

I thought this was more apt Tenakoutou



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUAEy7oI-Hg

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 23:33

I seriously can not believe that people here have nothing to say. Brinsley has clearly claimed that the rates of thalassemia in Cyprus are PROOF that child sex abuse is more prevelant in Cyprus than in areas that do not have such a high rate, egged on by zoots I might add, without either of them offering a shred of evidence to support this most extreme claim. Equating closer 'inter breeding' (marriage of first and 2nd cousins) with rates of child sex abuse.



It is a disgusting unsupportable claim and apparently no one but me and yorgozlu has anything to say on the subject ! Incredible.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
06/05/2011 23:44

I COULD SAY PLENTY EROLZ, BUT...... in the face of such statement,s I am pretty much gob-smacked (and that doesn't happen often). It is often said that 'inter breeding' breeds 'village idiots' but in many societies there was little choice of marriage partners. The reason marrying cousins within U.K israre is because one only has to look at the old lists in the Prayer Book as to whom one could NOT marry to see that it was very definitely VERBOTEN.

it is extremely unkind to suggest that child abuse is the cause of genetically transmitted diseases. And thalassaemia is prevalent right across the Med - so are ALL the nations guilty of abnormal child abuse?

whilst it is true that everyone is entitled to express their opinions and thoughts, I feel very strongly that with these kind of statements, one MUST back them up with facts or be potentially sued for libel (which of course is another difference between U.K and here!!!!!)

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 00:14

Child sex abuse never existed to anyone's knowledge, or in any historic records (legal or otherwise) by the TCs! The child sex abuse is well documented and proved to be rife over many decades extending into to this century both in most of Western European countries. And it expands to mammoth scales where such crimes have/had been reported to be committed by the church clergy. Such acts were sometimes carried out also by the Greek Orthodox Church of GCs in Cyprus. BUT never reputed to be rife within any TC family, where incest is unthinkable!

Cyprus is famous for doting over children, and it is one of the few places left in Europe (and I can only speak for TRNC) where they can play out on the streets and fields until dark, without the fear of been abducted, raped or kidnapped by the organ mafia. However, this is just another worry for TCs, who fear the recent illegal alien invasion of the land and the kind of people flooding in will eventually bring in the evil with them.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 04:30

Msg 85 'it is extremely unkind to suggest that child abuse is the cause of genetically transmitted diseases.'



Let us be clear here Brinsley does not 'suggest' such a connection exists, but states as fact, that cyprus has a higher incidence of child sex abuse than the UK and uses the higher incidence of thalassaemia as his so called 'proof'.



It is pure 'psuedo science' with absolutley no basis in fact what so ever, that tries to equate increased consanguinity within a group as being a result of increased incestuous child sex abuse within that group and thus proof of such. It ignores all the other ways that greater consanguitiy can be higher in one group vs another that have NOTHING to do with child sex abuse, like higher incidence of first cousin marriages, and attibutes this single possible cause to the given effect of increased incidence of thallassaemia.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 04:43

It is no different from saying that its a fact that the incidence of child sexual abuse within say the european royal familes is higher than that found in european populations in general, proven by the higher consanguity of the former group to the later. Or its a fact that child sex abuse is higher amongst Moari and Moari descended New Zelanders than non Moari New Zelanders, proven by the higer consanguity of the former group to the higher.



It is pure and total nonsense not supported or supportable by any evidence at all and really no different from the kind of abuses of the science of genetics used by the Nazis to 'prove' the superioty of one 'race' over another.



It is for me probably the single most contemptible post I have seen on these forums over the many years I have used them. Absolutley disgusting, there is no other way to describe such behaviour.

berilela


Joined: 17/07/2010
Posts: 590

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 07:42

think its time to close this thread as well of subject now

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 07:43

To take the part of Devils Advocate for a moment, could it not be said that arranged marriages of girls below what would now be considered the age of consent, is/was a form of child sex abuse? Could it also not be said that sex with such arranged husbands, who might be first cousins, is also a form of incest, albeit one step removed?

I'm not trying to be insulting here, just trying to get a handle on definitions.

Wikipedia defines incest as: "...sexual intercourse between close relatives[1][2] that is illegal in the jurisdiction where it takes place and/or is socially taboo. The type of sexual activity and the nature of the relationship between people that constitutes a breach of law or social taboo vary with culture and jurisdiction. Some societies consider incest to include only those who live in the same household, or who belong to the same clan or lineage; other societies consider it to include "blood relatives"; other societies further include those related by adoption/marriage.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 08:00

TRNCVaughan



You can discuss as to if marriage of first cousins is a form incest, a form of incest or not incest at all. However Brinley was graphicaly explicit about what HE was talking about. I quote "Dad was 'popping' Mum and Daughter with the son doing Mum and Sister irrespective of age! "



What makes his post so contemptible is to state that greater consanguinity (a group having closer DNA to each other within that group than relative to a indivduals in a compartive other group), which IS evidenced by higher percentages of certain genetic diseases like thalassimia amongst others, is a result of and proof of child sex abuse. There are many ways a group can have higher consanguinity than a comparable group that are nothing to do with rates of child sex abuse within that group. This totaly disguting claim unsported by any evidence has nothing to do with if you consider marriage to first cousins 'incest' or not.



[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 08:05

Brinley's claim is no different to claming that higher incidences of sickle cell anemia in certain ethnic groups is proof of higher child sexual abuse within those groups. It is a disgusting unsupportable claim that throughly deserves to be exposed for the contemtible rubbish that it patently is.

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 08:20

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17486509

iffytimes


Joined: 07/05/2011
Posts: 20

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 09:08

Incestuous gene in consanguinophilia and incest: toward a consilience theory of incest taboo.

Denic S, Nicholls MG.

Source



Department of Internal Medicine, Faculty of Medicine and Health Sciences, UAE University, P.O. Box 17666, Al Ain, Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates. s.denic@uaeu.ac.ae

Abstract



Westermarck's theory of incest taboo states that inhibition of sexual attraction between biologically close relatives is situational and develops during co-residence in early childhood. By contrast, the biological (genetic) basis of incest taboo is presumed from its universality in all human societies and animals and teleologically, from the need to prevent the detrimental effects of inbreeding. As incest taboo violation is infrequent, the frequency of the presumed gene in the population is believed to be near 100%. We present arguments which suggest that the incestuous gene may exist in all populations and could play an important role in evolution. http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/a

honestie


Joined: 22/02/2009
Posts: 468

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 09:37

Maria 1



as for living in bubbles sometimes thats the best thing to do as I like you Maria 1 have been involved with all walks of life and as for child abuse wait until one has been personally involved in the investigations of stuff you would not even believe with offenders from all walks of life and nationalities and nothing to do with interbreeding! or cypriots bla bla bla. what has this got to do with illegsl workers.



Surely this is completly off topic form the original thread but seems to have just been taken over by a thread to do with child abuse!!!

maria1


Joined: 19/10/2009
Posts: 167

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 13:20

Izzet



Request for this post to be closed. It has gone off the topic as there are certain people out there who are being offensive and racist.



For all the normal people out there thank you for your input relating to the original topic.



Sandra



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Zoots


Joined: 05/02/2011
Posts: 669

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 16:39

Erolz wrote: "I seriously can not believe that people here have nothing to say."

Never mind. Why not buy a dog or something?

kiwikid


Joined: 18/08/2008
Posts: 496

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 17:34

Hi Erol, I think you will find that most people are just to shocked and disgusted to even want to get in to a debate about this, I for one am ashamed to come from the same country as Brimsby sometimes, and hate the comments he makes about NZ and his relationship with Sheep, as he seems proud to bring sheep in to many conversations. Sorry Brimsby I have laughed at a lot of your comments in the past, but lately they have become quite upsetting.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 18:07

Angela

Are you loosing your sense of humour? However, very true about your observation as I'm returning home for the knock-out stage of the World Cup this October and worried about how many divorce petitions will be slapped on me at arrival in Auckland!!

PS Have you had those Kiwi posters framed for your kids?



Richard

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 18:20

You are going to claim it was a joke now are you Brinsley ?



Yeah great joke. Lets tell it again shall we ?

"Why do so many TC suffer from thalassemia?"

punch line : "because there is so much child sex abuse and incest amongst them"



How hillarious. As I say a most contemptible post from you as far as I am concerned. So funny I am sure you would not hesitate to tell it in person face to face to any TC you come accross.

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 18:29

Msg 100

Try spending your valued time at the Hospital of Tropical Diseases, Tottenham Ct. Rd, and do some research, as I did!



Richard

stellasstar1



Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 1519

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 18:43

Can this thread please be closed down. A number of people have already asked for it to be closed, as it is completely off topic, and on to a very delicate subject. Moderators have closed down much less offensive threads, and I don't understand why they are letting this run.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 18:53

I do not think a mod is on Stella, Thats why we miss AJ. I cant beleive whats gone on on this. xxx

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 19:02

So brinsley are you now claiming that you learnt that the high incidence of thalassemia in TC is a result of higher level of child sexual abuse amongst TC compared with groups that do not have such high levels of thalassemia at the Hospital of Tropical Diseases, Tottenham Ct. Rd ? Is that you latest claim ? That is what they taught you there was it when you 'spent time' there ?

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 19:09

This thread is now closed. Reason: Thread went off topic.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
07/05/2011 19:11

erolz



don,t get so upset ,talk is cheap ,people sometimes say things just to get a reaction ,they would not say it face to face,it,s not that easy to get away with it.



bu insanlar beller bizden daha akilli dillar ,little do they know.



musin



long live the kktc