For his memory

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:11

Do you remember February 1993 in England , when a young boy of 3 was taken from a Liverpool shopping centre by two 10-year-old boys? Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only a second, Jon Venables took his hand and led him out of the Mall with his friend Robert Thompson. They took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles, along the way stopping every now and again to torture the poor little boy who was crying constantly for his mummy. What these two boys did was so horrendous that Jamie's mother was forbidden to identify his body.. They then left his beaten small body on railway tracks so a train could run him over to hide the mess they had created. These two boys, even being boys, understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to make it look like an accident. This week Lady Justice Butler-Sloss has awarded the two boys ( now men ), anonymity for the rest of their lives when they leave custody. What a discrace! British justice eh?

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:15

They will also leave custody early only serving just over half of their sentence.

They are being relocated to Australia to live out the rest of their lives. They disgustingly and violently took Jamie's life away and in return they each get a new life!



I personally feel sick.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:17

Stewy anonimity can't be guaranteed... what do you think will happen?



Do you think they should handed over to the lynch mob?



Retribution is a very difficult subject... Does Jamie's family want to ever hear of them again? I doubt it....

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:21

I don't think it's a good idea to be talking about this. It tends to bring out the worst in people and it won't bring the little lad back. Unless of course the murder or serious assault of one or both of the killers will make some people feel good. It takes all sorts.

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:21

I cannot post my own views on here.

But one thing is for sure thet shouldn't be back on the streets.

Littlenige



Joined: 24/12/2006
Posts: 3594

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:26

stuff a battery up their bum cut their bllocks off then say do you know how your victim felt ...........then decapitate the slimeballs

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:29

Msg 6 see msg 4.

The butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:29

Hi All,



Whilst I will never condone this and have every sympathy for Jamies parents and I am not forgetting a child died. These 2 boys were only 10 years old, they were both from deprived families, where they had been allowed to watch violent vidio films from an early age. Would you have hung them at 10 years old for their crime? They have hopefully worked for their early release and will make something of their lives with the knowledge of what they did will never be forgiven.



The Butlers wife

batterboy58



Joined: 20/04/2008
Posts: 442

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 20:30

I didn't realise we were still sending our criminals to Australia.



Mind you these two ought to be made to swim all the way.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 21:07

Hi to all..Does anyone remember a little 10 year old girl by the name of Anne Bell who committed a similar crime years ago.She wasnt re -located to Australia but is still here in england and fortuneately making anew life for herself.I would agree with some of your comments on what should happen to them but do bear in mind they all were only 10YEARS old.If they had been 16/17 yes I would be one of the first to say they should serve there sentance,because I believe 16/17 year olds know what they are doin where as a 10 year old probably thinks a some sort of big game. I think a little tolerance is required in this case1111

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 21:11

Tolerance is an interesting choice of word.

jakki



Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 865

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 21:16

I agree with the Butler's Wife - let's just hope though that they have nightmares about what they did for the rest of their lives!!!

scampy



Joined: 15/01/2008
Posts: 982

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 21:24

As a mum of 2 I know what I would do to them and stuff the consiquences because I think if that happened to one of mine my life would mean nothing without them

Does that make sense???

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:00

SCAMPY,, try thinking what you do if it was one your kids who did it.I totallyagree with how you would feel if it was one of your kids who was the victim. would you feel the same if they were the culprit...

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:02

Coachie. You have some strange ideas. Maye if you had done it it would be ok.??

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:06

This is not something anyone could have done. Don't take the stance 'what if your children did it".

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:10

stewy.. If you think trying to fathom out why people want to hang draw and quarter 10 year olds is strange or even odd then I am odd,

No ,it would certainl y not be alright if I had done it, because like I said in my post I am old enough to know the difference between right and wrong where as most 10 year olds dont...

stewy


Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 279

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:16

SCAMPY,, try thinking what you do if it was one your kids who did it.I totallyagree with how you would feel if it was one of your kids who was the victim. would you feel the same if they were the culprit...



Coachy. I was just apalled at your post. It's a horrible thing to say to any parent.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:24

stewy ..But it is parents who are coming out with some of these statements of what they would like to do them,all I was asking susie was to look at it from a different angle, and I think she is quite able to do that, she is agrown woman and must surely be able tio see what I was getting at...Susie if I have upset you I do apologise sincerely...

RedSnapper


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 540

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:44

in my opinion the pair are beyond any redemption, they were born evil..

Lemtich



Joined: 15/02/2007
Posts: 1487

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:52

Interesting concept that, born evil.....



Or were they shaped and created by the youth sub culture they lived in?



Is a child a blank canvas or do they arrive with evil intent?



If they do, then how and why?



Are we talking about some genetic leaning or bad blood, what makes someone kill without anxiety and others refuse at all costs?



I would really appreciate your views.



Lem

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 22:56

I was trying to sympathise with Jamie's family who presumably want to put this as far away from the rest of their lives as they can manage without the sounds of baying press men dragging it up every time a sighting is made of the culprits..



Remember the Maxine Carr girlfriend of Ian Huntley... every time the press claimed she'd been spotted living a normal life it must have jarred back into the consciousness of the family in a horrible way...



It's must be bad enough having the awful memory of Jamie's murder without having shoved in your face every time some thoughtless hack thinks he can gain some column inches out of sensationalising it for profit...

japal


Joined: 12/08/2008
Posts: 89

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 23:15

Well said Nige msg 6..

Coachie msg 10 .........at 10 years old they should know that what they was doing was wrong... or shall the parents be blamed for not teaching them right and wrong..... and also her name was Mary Bell

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
21/10/2008 23:26

Yes, Groucho,



You've made the same point twice in one post about "baying hacks" etc. Shame for you the only hack here is advising any lynch mobs out there to find other things to occupy their "minds". Which camp do you belong to?

flowerfairy


Joined: 17/09/2008
Posts: 1277

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 00:26

Well, I think if the punishment fitted the crimes these days,a lot of crimes wouldn't exist. Maybe parents would stop children watching horrendous films /programs. That is probably where they got their ideas from.

But it's all too late to put right now, the damage is already done.

I mean, didn't Myra Hindley get a degree????

wish I could have put my daughter through university.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 01:20

flowerfairy: "wish I could have put my daughter through university."



Could she not have been awarded a grant or bursary if she was bright enough? Or could the price of your holiday home not have funded her dreams for the future? Just curious, as I'm a graduate and former lecturer who fully intends putting both my kids through uni in about 15 years' time.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 02:32

I'm sorry but i'm at a loss to understand how some people believe that a 10 year cannot distinguish between right and wrong. To take a little toddler and kill him in the dispicable way this crime was committed is abhorent. This was pre-meditated murder. Jamie was not a doll, but a little boy. They knew only too well what they were doing. They can hide behind their upbringing, the films they watched and the law insofar as it protects kids as young as this, and it does. They cannot hide behind their own conscience in that it should haunt them for the rest of their lives wherever they are. I hope that true justice will prevail and they will have sleepless nights and wake up distraught in the knowledge of what they have done. If they have their own kids, I can hope the annominity will not prevent the "care system" stepping in just to make sure that their children are not harmed.

This is a difficult and emotive subject and there are conflicting opinions. Children killing a child?

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 03:33

Flower said



I mean, didn't Myra Hindley get a degree????



wish I could have put my daughter through university.



Yes Flower, I believe she did, but she had plenty of "time on her hands."



It's not easy or affordable these days to give your kids the education you would want, or to think this western world, would want to invest in the future for our kids.



The fact is the world leaders have no world left to lead, they have completely f****d it up. Do they really give a damm about the future? If you look at the bigger picture no they don't. They proved that two weeks ago. Not a clue what was going on. Instead of supporting our kids/future they ploughed 500 billion into the reckless echelons controlling the banks who now have a handsome payoff. How many student tuition fees/loans would that have paid?



To be honest, your daughter is better off with the university of life. It will stand her in better stead in the years ahead.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 03:40

PS Yesterday I went to my local Lloyds TSB branch to see that it was shut for 3 days for total refurbishment.



Great use of our taxpayers money then?

I couldn't even pay my credit card bill, but I suppose they will charge me £12.50 for a late payment then?



In these circumstances do you think I should argue? Do you think I would win??

rowan


Joined: 04/09/2008
Posts: 450

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 08:57

I dont agree with comments

which say that most ten year olds do not know right from wrong, in my experince they do and should be made to pay for their crimes, that is our justice system. What annoys me is that they will have a life on annonimity, paid for by the likes of me and you, they will live, hopefully useful lifes, have their own children and grandchildrenm, something the families of Jamie Bulger and the litte girk killed by Mary bell will never have

craig2536


Joined: 09/06/2007
Posts: 277

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 09:11

For crimes against children no one should ever be given anonimity. It should be completely opposite. Publish in the papers what they look like. where they live. All paedophiles there should be life imprisonment. For these two killers they should never have been released. They knew exactly what they were doing.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 09:33

Pike my comment about hacks was not aimed at you.. don't be over sensitive! It doesn't suit you... BTW I've never seen a piece you've done in this type of case.... I'm just hoping that the gutter press can bite their proverbial tongues for once.... but I'm not holding my breath...



So I agree with you and I would further state that those baying for blood are not the sort of people I would want to associate myself with...



I find all this bluster by the hang'em high brigade self-aggrandising and in poor taste...



I don't rush to become part of the mob or wish to.. it has never seemed the right thing to do. I don't think strangers trying to claim some moral crusade for "justice" on behalf of the family really know what they (the family) are going through and what they are trying to come to terms with...

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 12:13

japal.. I stand corrected about the other person name. Ive said my piece on this thread and I am no longer partaking in the discussion .Tthank you all...

cruggs


Joined: 06/04/2008
Posts: 498

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 14:54

i was born in the 1940s and grew up in the culture of the time, and spent

many unhappy hours outside public houses or pubs,and never once felt threatened by anyone.as children my friends and i grew up playing cowboys and indians or soldiers and always killing our enemies as children do. did we grow up too harm others no, why,because right and wrong was instilled in us at an early age.with all of the violence,sex, and murders,portrayed, even on

soap,s is it any wonder we have the culture we have today.parents should also be held responsible for the actions of their children,and teach them their children right from wrong,but in this day and age who cares any more.

Krin52


Joined: 25/08/2008
Posts: 419

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 15:16

Well, after all that is off our chests, can I point out that this email is another that just keeps going around and around? Inciting ghastly memories and vile emotions?



The two murderers were released in 2001, having served their full (pathetic) sentences - with their identities and whereabouts sealed by Dame Butler-Sloss. They are not in Australia, or so the government there claims last I checked.

scampy



Joined: 15/01/2008
Posts: 982

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 17:31

coachie



If my kids were capable of doing something so terrible as that...... Sorry to say this but, firstly I would shop them myself... and then I wouldn't like to think about what I would do to them,

I remember when it happened and we all said at work, commit and adults crime.. you do the adults time,

Sorry but as a mum and a human I personally think they deserve all they get

Susie x

spangles


Joined: 22/10/2008
Posts: 411

Message Posted:
22/10/2008 17:29

A couple of years ago it was reported that Jon Venables was to marry and that his fiancee, who was pregnant, did not know his true identity nor would she be informed. It was reasoned that if they split up she would spill the beans and he would be in danger.