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Britain faces 1bn bill for new Greek bailout

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basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 08:23

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Message 1 of 23 in Discussion

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3063343.ece

(link needs subscription)



Britain is under pressure to commit hundreds of millions of pounds to a second bailout for Greece after another day of violent protest in Athens.



Faced with a general strike and 20,000 demonstrators in the Greek capital, George Papandreou, the Prime Minister, offered yesterday to make way for a national unity government, but the move was rejected by the Opposition.



With the 110 billion (96 billion) package agreed last year set to run out, Germany is leading calls for the entire EU, not just the 17 eurozone countries, to contribute to a rescue fund.



Diplomats in Brussels said that Berlin wants to include a European Commission emergency fund of 6 billion to 8 billion in the new bailout, leaving British taxpayers liable for between 700 million and 1 billion.



George Osborne, the Chancellor, is powerless to veto the plan.



spider


Joined: 03/01/2009
Posts: 5527

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 10:32

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Message 2 of 23 in Discussion

I wish some other country would like to pick up our bills for the unemployed and the sick sods that are not SICK !





Good old England !



It still has the clunk-click every trip and the green cross code ! For those that do not understand..Its belts on in all the cars..Helmets on bikes..and always, always look left and right when crossing the road..Great that we passed this onto the next generation our children's children understanding all too..Its a generation thing ! Called looking after OUR OWN..Oh dear now we have to hand over our dosh...Nothing new !



Spider,X



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 10:53

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Message 3 of 23 in Discussion

Greece looks to be in a right old mess. Its credit rating is now the worst in the world and bond yields are at 12.5%. Who the hell is going to buy these, certainly not the private investors that many EU countries are encouraging, not when the country is about to pop.

Looks like Greece will never be able to pay off its debt with its citizens not wanting to go through the austerity measures (as the demonstrations show). Seems to me that they are just delaying the inevitable, which is to write off most of the countries debt, with both private investors and the tax payers of other nations picking up the bill.



walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 11:01

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Message 4 of 23 in Discussion

Greece will not be alone, there are many more countries to follow. The Brussels bureaucratic machinery is working in overdrive to try and delay the inevitable, the total collapse of the Euro!

The countries may as well declare Bankruptcy, for they will never, ever be able to pay off the dent burden!

Follow the money and you'll know exactly who is profiteering from it all!

The whole system is ready to collapse ... and the big boys club don't want that!

The UK should say NO to all demands because if we ain't got the money, and we are making such huge cuts all over, then we should not agree to anything in connection to bailing out others!



Carndi


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 613

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 11:10

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Message 5 of 23 in Discussion

The answer is to e-mail your MEP and MP and TELL him/her that they are to vote against this and should they not,you will not vote for them next time round.

Also e-mail friends and family asking them to do the same.

If, just once,we all stood shoulder to shoulder irrespective of party and with held our vote then the B.....ds would sit up and remember who they work for.

If the Egyptians can get rid of a tyrant and his government by the internet, then surley we can remind our lot that their jobs are at our discretion.



Basil. I was under the impression that under EU rules we had to assist the first time but we could opt out if there was a second need.



Only fools elect politicians to run a country.



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 11:27

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Message 6 of 23 in Discussion

The idea of the European Union (and monetary system) was that everyone would chip in and support each other. It is an honourable and noble idea, however when the chips are down nations will look after their own self interest, in much the same way as individuals do. The majority of people have their identity tied to their home nation not to Europe.

That being said, so far the Union has held together during this crisis, however the Europhiles will do whatever it takes to keep the Euro dream from falling apart and the Euro crashing will mean economic disaster for Europe and the world.



I think eventually the Euro will be the currency of only the Northern states - France, Germany, Sweden, Holland etc



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 11:36

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Message 7 of 23 in Discussion

Greece lied about their financial position to achieve EU membership. That membership should therefore be rescinded.

Even with the bail-out Greece is more likely than not going to default, so is the bail-out throwing good money after bad? Probably, and what are the Greeks doing while the rest of Europe is seeking to help them? Oh yeah.... Rioting.



walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 11:48

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Message 8 of 23 in Discussion

i predict that there is going to be much more rioting, not only in Greece but many other countries in the near future. there will be much change including more earthquakes, more floods, more odd weather patterns, more industrial and social collapse, and all of this change will lead to bringing people and communities together.



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 11:52

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Message 9 of 23 in Discussion

there is little chance the bailout schedule will ever happen as portrayed



with greek debt fetching 17 1/2 % an eight-year-old could calculate that the

375 billion total, demands gargantuan repayments



but if the support (ie cheap loans) is credited, who would believe there will

ever be sufficient tax revenue and economic growth to finance it?



no state can go bankrupt since taxes still dribble in, but may default on loans

...the technical term financial experts use for these choreographed moves is

"whistling in the dark", but the greek population won't swallow ceaucescu-style

penenalties of total deprivation



on the northern front, accession of its harmless neighbour FYR macedonia

is blocked because the name coincides with alexander's homeland,

and a giant golden statue of said commander being erected there will scupper

FYR macedonia's chances for a long while yet, as greeks fret, not over vast

unpaid bills, but their "usurped" heritage



...sounds familiar?



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 13:07

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Message 10 of 23 in Discussion

The GC's financially have a lot at stake in Greece, and they are probably more worried than this article suggests



http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/cyprus-can-withstand-greek-crisis/20110616



bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 13:35

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Message 11 of 23 in Discussion

A true Greek Tragedy?



basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 13:45

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Message 12 of 23 in Discussion

Carndi said,

'I was under the impression that under EU rules we had to assist the first time but we could opt out if there was a second need.'



As I understand it, Germany is insisting that the EU Financial Stabilisation Mechanism (EFSM) - to which the UK contributes - is used to help Greece, potentially creating 1.2bn liability. A decision will be taken at a meeting of Europe's finance ministers on Monday, and I doubt if moaning to your MEP will have much effect.



Leaving the Greeks to sink in the mire of their lies and deception seems attractive, until it is pointed out that their banks (which may fail this week) are heavily 'in' to banks in other countries.



So, the UK taxpayer gets to bail out banks which have unwisely lent to greedy Bubbles - either by means of a further EU bung 'refinancing' them, (robbing Peter to pay Paul) or if they don't do that by further bail outs to the Bankers when the Greek banks roll over.



Worst case - both happen.



basil


Joined: 10/04/2009
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 13:46

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Message 13 of 23 in Discussion

Perhaps the EU should take a greek island in compensation ...



Cyprus is greek, isn't it? ;)



ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 13:48

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Message 14 of 23 in Discussion

I believe UK banks have something like 20 billion invested in Greece. Just add another 20 billion to the 68 billion it cost to bail out RBS and Lloyds



Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 15:39

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Message 15 of 23 in Discussion

Who cares if you are retired and live here.

The whole nonsense is, of course, another legacy of the Blair + Brown micky mouse 11 year era.

Geoff

Famagusta City



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 15:56

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Message 16 of 23 in Discussion

Geoff,

Where did Blair and Brown advise large financial institutions to gamble investors money on the sub-prime mortgage market?

The seeds for this collapse were sown in the deregulation of the financial sector and who was the architect of that wizard wheeze? Oh yes, one Margaret Thatcher.



wattys


Joined: 07/10/2008
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 18:15

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Message 17 of 23 in Discussion

My dogs just crapped on the patio, let's blame it on Maggie



Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 19:16

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Message 18 of 23 in Discussion

Message 18...Groucho. Blair and Brown had 11 years to re-regulate the banking industry and didn't bother because Gordon Brown in his own words did not understand how complicated the system was.

This chancellor did not understand the financial system which he himself created and only understood "tax and spend" as a financial tool.



Gordon brown stealthily raised taxes and spent the lot, sold a large part of the gold reserves and spent the lot, raided the pension funds and spent the lot, borrowed billions and spent the lot.



But of course this was all down to Maggie Thatcher and the Conservatives wasn't it ?



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 20:17

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Message 19 of 23 in Discussion

message 15:



....no it is not, that's exactly why all the trouble started in the sixties and seventies:

but yes it is mostly ethnic greek, plus about 20% foreigners



corfu/ionia is however part of greece but hasn't been for as long as the mainland,

and rhodes was under italian occupation during the mussolini era



should greece ever be interested to solve their problem (our problem?) then they

could auction off both of these islands for a start



Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
16/06/2011 22:20

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Message 20 of 23 in Discussion

Geejay

Typical obfuscation, the Banks poor gambling record had nothing to do with the budget deficit (which was the reason for selling off the crown jewels - something I didn't agree with but not relevant to the financial meltdown issue affecting the whole of the western world).

Yeah re-regulate them, well that was a nice idea but only possible once they were in such a state that they had no muscles to flex. If Blair and Brown had taken on the task before the meltdown the banks would have made pretty sure that they were moved aside. The City of London has more power in the political arena than you give them credit for. So unfortunately once deregulated it was nigh impossible to get the genie back in the bottle. Even now it's not done for real - hence the inability to curb the huge bonuses 'earned' by the whiz-kids of the city.



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
17/06/2011 12:24

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Message 21 of 23 in Discussion

contrary to earlier postings,

greek sovereign debt is "only" 300 billion euros not 376b



on the other hand, market rates on this are now at 30%,

not seventeen and a half like last month...source, bbc online



what very few people dare use, is the f-word:

bank failiures... this is a logical outcome of a government

running out of money and the ensuing collapse of confidence



such a contagion may easily spread to portugal and the

cashpoint mini-banks of spain

...and it is not entirely related to membership of the euro



a gleam of light here is that the greek middle class

withdrew its euros from the banks more than a year ago



regarding exposure to greek debt by the republic of cyprus,

I do not have any information but a local minister there stated

right on cue, that their banks are "very strong"



but all loose talk about credit rating agencies and speculators

having anything to do with the greek crisis is buck-passing



walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
17/06/2011 13:53

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Message 22 of 23 in Discussion

Whilst Greece remains firmly in talks over the bailout package, it has been suggested that rather than trying to prevent a default, the ECB may in fact be delaying one in an attempt to best prepare for the inevitable. Whilst this could be market skepticism it makes for interesting reading and the pieces do seem to fit. Come late June we will have a better understanding as to what the likely future of the euro has in store for us.



andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
17/06/2011 16:29

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Message 23 of 23 in Discussion

as I said, greece leaving the euro or simply defaulting may solve

nothing in the short-term, it could even spark a run on their banks



the ultimate problem is not the idebtedness of very many western

countries but how their shortfall can be reduced and/or refinanced



and in the case of greece, a back of an envelope calculation shows

they are unlikely to ever pay back vast debts, plus the new loans



just like another question where "talks do not an agreement make"

...but yes js, we should know the worst by the end of the month!



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