Looks like the Greeks could put the cat right amongst the pigeons

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
22/06/2011 17:00

Dear me, just when we were looking like recovering from the recession.

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/Forex-focus-Greek-crisis-tele-2161428186.html?x=0

Worldlywander


Joined: 22/06/2011
Posts: 4

Message Posted:
22/06/2011 20:57

One might ask WHEN rather than IF. There ahve ben people in the streets everywhere and the summer has hardly begun.



If Spain goes into meltdown then we need to worry. The small, peripheral countries may cause a blip but Germany and France have too much invested in a single currency to stand by and watch it suink by economies the size of Portugal, Greece and Ireland.



IMHO the real problem is yet to be faced in Spain. Their banks are all carrying property debt which is simply not backed by assets. Offers of 100% mortgages on properties reduced in price by 50% are now commonplace. I saw one property last week reduced from €8.6m to €4.9m. Where in the world would one even consider paying almost m for a summer cottage, except Marbella?



Wea re currently living in an earea where there are over 12000 illegal properties, mainly owned by Brits. The Spanish have produced a way out of the mess by reducing the number subject to demolition to just under 1000; only a few write offs for the b

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
22/06/2011 22:31

ww:



I agree, whatever the tiddlers do, the sinking spanish galeon could drag us all down,

they have between one and two million unsold properties, many already lost their shirts

...while all this agro over planning permissions and zoning etc is not what you need



really all these thrills and spills, whilst painful, used to be self-correcting when the club

-meds had their own monetary systems



but western leaders, having condoned all the borrowing madness for political gain

are now presenting us all with a stark choice:

either pay through the nose to bail out the system for a generation, or don't, and step

back in time to the 1930's slump as it were

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
22/06/2011 22:35

looks like buying for cash in trnc was a good deal afterall

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 09:37

Prohibition next that will go down well with the Efes crowd here.

walkerscott


Joined: 13/08/2009
Posts: 901

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 11:34

Always follow the money ...

The powers that be behind all this globally never thought people would rebel.. We have always been programmed to behave and follow what our so called leaders have asked of us!

No more! The Euro will fall, everyone is just in denial and just postponing what is inevitable!

How on earth can Cameron guarantee anything, we don't have the assets to do such a thing.

The world is changing as always, in all ways!

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 11:35

What is Deniz1 on about?

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 11:52

just like the 1930/s

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 12:05

Aye, this could be of epic proportions without a doubt, but in my opinion the leaders of the EU are to blame, countries like Greece Spain and even Ireland to some extent were taken into the EU fold and treated like they were as affluent as countries like Germany France and some extent the UK, their wealth was never going to stand up to the test, there should have been a two tier system for the Euro, but as usual the powers in charge think they know it all and are unaccountable for what happens, looks like Nigel Farage has made some very good points over the years.

slatnumber7


Joined: 25/08/2010
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 13:40

Perhaps I need some guidance here (so someone please step in if they feel so inclined) The predictions are Greece may well default on its debt because of it's lack of desire to tighten it's belt and accept more austerity measures. However, just to remain afloat at present it needs millions more Euros in the short term thereby increasing what it owes to the rest of the world not just Europe creating lesser prospect of the debt being honoured.

If Greece is allowed to default that may set a precedent for others to follow i.e. Ireland, Spain and Portugal plunging the Eurozone and Stirling into chaos. This situation must be addressed it will not just go

away.

Greece should be strongly encouraged to fall on it's sword and leave the E.U. instead of holding out the begging bowl for more money. If encouragement for them to leave the E.U. isn't enough of a motive for the Greeks then expel them. Greece is, it seems destined to sink let them sink alone instead of taking others down with them.

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 13:51

Msg 10.

Have a look for some of Nigel Farage's rants in the European parliament on youtube, he's been warning of all this for years, he is a very astute man, but as usual he has been branded a rambling lunatic by all and sundry, all the top money men are expecting Greece to default on their loan agreements, there was never any or enough measures taken when neck end countries like Greece Spain Portugal etc joined the EEC, the only way the EEC would have worked would have been to keep it a closed shop for the richer nations of Europe, IE, those that have the honour to pay their way and their debts, like I said Nigel Farage saw all this coming years ago.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 13:53

Msg11, I agree maybe suspend their membership

untill they get their house in order

The UK cannot afford it

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 13:54

A cafe society like Greece should never have been admitted into the 'fold', anyway.



What did the 'financial boffins from Bruxelles' expect?



Whenever will people realise learn that any IMF/EU money 'lent' to Greece, or Cyprus, should be written off from the date of donation?

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 14:07

Tenk Msg 13.

This is exactly what Mr Farage has been saying, and a lot more to be honest, he's been campaigning for years to get us out of the EEC, the risks far outweigh the benefits saf far as he is concerned, and he may very well be right, if Greece defaults and everyone is expecting them to do so as it's in their mentality, then the Spanish galleon will go down bringing down the whole house of cards, and that's going to be catastrophic for everyone in Europe, and probably the rest of the world, so the short sightedness of those A*rseholes in Bruxelle's is going to cause a worse depression than the 30's, that's why Brixelle's are saying they will in no way let Greece go bust even if they have to keep throwing money into it's bottomless pit, I happen to think Farage was right we should never have joined the EEC.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 14:21

message 10:



the problem for northern countries is that unless even more money is sent to fund greek interest

(yes, it looks completely bonkers in print I'd agree!)

a default an increasingly involuntary action , will then see especially the french and german banks

up xxxx creek without a paddle... since their balance sheets are stuffed with greek sovereign debt



and locally there is a significant danger, or so we are assured, that greek banks promptly collapse

in sympathy



sadly it just isn't possible to do "jonah" and cast them out, to save the rest of us, while regarding

the greeks' future stability, it all depends what you mean by "afloat"



and I cannot see greece being expelled from the the eurozone (your "eu?!?") by any decision of

france and germany, but there is now a trial of strength between euro politicos and grim-faced

market setters who will eventually have to decide the issue one way or the other and be called

all the names under the sun

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 15:33

Edward Heath lied to the British Public about the EU and seems quiet happy to admit it.

jimchris09


Joined: 13/02/2009
Posts: 547

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 17:15

Edward Heath....he's dead, isn't he?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 17:22

I hope so!

Middle Easter


Joined: 13/06/2007
Posts: 146

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 17:59

When greece goes belly up, the Euro will be in real mess, it will affect Sterling as UK will be hit in the backdraft, but in a semi cancelling out kind of way i.e. not much exchange rate fluctuation. However the US Dollar which is still perceived as a safe haven will rocket.



If you ever wanted to have a bet, do so on the Euro versus the USD & let me know how much you make.....prediction of USD: GBP at 1.40 (now 1.60) & USD: Euro at 1.10 (now 1.41) it will be like a 'double' at Haydock Park......seriously. I won't say how much I have staked on it, but if it works my retirement fund will go from zero to efes.



Even if you do not have a bet, just watch with interest over the next month or so.

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 18:31

Msg 19 - simple terms - keep $us or get rid?

Keep £ or get rid?

keep Euro - get rid?



By get rid i mean change to TL now - or wait?

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 18:45

cameron has just said greece should be funded by countries that use the euro , in other words uk aint gonna pay no more ,, but he has got to say that with all the cut backs in the uk aint he ?

Corbo



Joined: 13/09/2009
Posts: 627

Message Posted:
23/06/2011 20:21

Indeed rowlo..let's see if he's got the balls to to see it through.

slatnumber7


Joined: 25/08/2010
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
24/06/2011 07:11

andre514 Msg.15



Thanks for your input, your first paragraph is the aspect that I have difficulty in understanding.(Not your explanation the concept.)



Let's say a high street chain of 27 shops were trading together under one name and some of them weren't making a profit, paying their staff and bills and generally keeping afloat. Now I can understand that it would be necessary to subsidise the branches that were failing in their targets in the short term. However, when the prospect exists that the under achievers are more than likely to put a catatrosphic drain on those branches that are making a profit, common sense must prevail before the complete chain of shops are liquidated or pruned down to say those major branches that show a profit.



I do understand that there is no precedent for expulsion from the European Union (E.U.) and to expel Greece won't stop them from defaulting on their debts but it might prevent others from defaulting if expulsion were the 'Sword of Damocles'.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
24/06/2011 20:32

slat,



there are three reasons why the eurozone big boys are willing to extend another huge loan,

so athens can pay the interest on the vast borrowings it has run up:



firstly the money that athens frittered away was mostly loaned by north european banks

...if they don't get their interest on schedule they will be in deep trouble, to coin a phrase



secondly if greek defaults, ireland, portugal and spain may say "why should we pay up too?"



thirdly the hubris and prestige of the daft euro-eurozone "dream" will be in great danger



who was it who said:

"if you borrow £300 and can't repay it you have a big problem"

"if you borrow £300 billion and can't repay it your bank has a big problem"



how long can they all go on kicking the can down the road? nobody has the faintest idea



expel greece from the eu or sack them from the eurozone? france and germany will not

slatnumber7


Joined: 25/08/2010
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
25/06/2011 12:13

andre514 Msg. 24



Thanks for your slant once again, the next couple of days will be very interesting. I think it might be that I will convert my modest Euro account to Dollars.



Any observations?

Tootie


Joined: 28/08/2008
Posts: 2037

Message Posted:
25/06/2011 12:31

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2007949/The-Big-Fat-Greek-Gravy-Train-A-special-investigation-EU-funded-culture-greed-tax-evasion-scandalous-waste.html

ebbern5


Joined: 03/06/2008
Posts: 79

Message Posted:
25/06/2011 12:50

I may be very simple but could somebody tell me where all the money is if we are all skint ? . Somebody somewhere must be sitting on a great big pile. Is it China? or did Bin Laden take it with him?



ebbern5

tattlad


Joined: 13/12/2008
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
25/06/2011 14:19

ebbern5.

That useless one eyed Scottish drop jawed clown sold all of our gold reserves at a knock down price, gold then tripled in price a month later, also he massively overspent the public purse to the extent we are ridiculously in debt now.

ebbern5


Joined: 03/06/2008
Posts: 79

Message Posted:
25/06/2011 21:20

I appreciate that but we pay some £40 million pound a Day to the EU and I would imagine that all E U countries pay a similar amount Thats a great chunk of Wonga.



Where is it all ? someone somewhere must be laughing.