Gary Robb to be extradited to the ROC

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
28/06/2011 14:04

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/crime/british-crook-face-land-scam-charges/20110628

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
28/06/2011 15:42

let's be clear about this:



it's nothing whatsoever to do with compensation for robb victims who lost out,

but just about everything to do with another high-profile stunt by south cyprus

(just in case anyone forgot!), that some of their citizens have legal ownership

documents for land in the trnc, though not the "possession" estate agents love



where, whatever the "outcome" I'll wager they will always be unable to reside



a prime example of no-is-yes-is-no-turkey-will-never-abandon-north-cyprus,

whatever europe says it believes

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
28/06/2011 15:46

Washerman also pointed out on the other thread

"be carefull what you wish for"



This test case could be very bad news for those with exchange land

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/06/2011 15:57

Philbailey it could be bad news for those with exchange land but it may also turned out that in practice it does not change things for them at all, time will tell. The Orams test case could have led to a flood of similar cases, yet to date it has not, and things have moved on since then. A whole range of charges have been made against Gary Robb by the RoC as I understand it, with most and the most serious not applying to 'mere' buyers / users of exchange land in the North.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
28/06/2011 16:02

and every greek cypriot claimant in creation was supposed to be

running to the immovable properties commission by 10th december,

to beat the deadline, in order to overwhelm it or whatever



...but the vast majority just seem not to have bothered

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/06/2011 16:08

Exactly - the gap between what could happen and what does happen is often very large. Atm as far as I can see its a 'wait and see' re this case against Gary Robb brought by the ROC and the use of EU arrest warrant. Speculation is just that, speculation. It may have profund repercussions for people with exchange property in the North or it may have none in reality. We just do not know.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 01:03

Interesting quote



If Robb does appear in a Cyprus court, Greek Cypriot judges will not however be focusing on the losses of unsuspecting Britons, but on the losses of the Greek Cypriot landowners whose properties he dealt in.



As Greek Cypriot lawyer Constantis Candouna told the Cyprus Mail yesterday, “It is the Greek Cypriot refugees who are the victims. For the Brits, it was as if they were buying stuff off the back of a lorry”. He advised Britons who had been cheated by Robb to apply to courts in the UK or the north.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 01:16

message 6:



"profound repercussions"?



it is already legally valid to have someone shipped from one eu country to another

on just such a warrant



from the point of view of the greek cypriot "cause" it is of the greatest importance

theirs does not become a lost cause ...thus damning their politicians as "clueless"



a good way to do that is keeping it in the public eye as the years roll mercilessly by,

assuming of course europe really gives a monkeys



show-trialing the appalling mr robb and his minions is just such a convenient vehicle,

and er, no harm in handing potential ex-pat buyers something new to fret over too



but it has very little to do with the ever-dwindling prospects for an agreed cyprus deal,

and even less, the full-on-fantasy chances for recovering the so-called lost territories



and a miscalculation could:

invoke sympathy for the accused, although unlikely with mr robb!

produce unwelcome fallout, after the orams hoo-har, gc's were packed off to th

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 01:20

...to the ipc, while one of their better-informed sympathisers on this very forum,

appears clueless as to why they didn't gang together for the december deadline

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 12:37

erolz,



I think your comments are spot on:



while adding to the latent anxieties of many who read these lines,

there is no doubt that any failiure to "follow through" with minnow developers

could again further weaken the whole misguided cause



and, by comparing the wholly misconceived extradition stunt with a release of

wind, the follow-through would leave the supplicant in even more of a mess



advice from a well-wisher?



strike for an attainable compromise agreement now, with or without morphou

Smity



Joined: 14/09/2009
Posts: 826

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 12:53

This point made by the Greek Cypriot lawyer



Constantis Candouna told the Cyprus Mail yesterday, “It is the Greek Cypriot refugees who are the victims. For the Brits, it was as if they were buying stuff off the back of a lorry”.



I my opinion, this is out of order, unfortunatly when thes houses were being build the land scam was not widly heard of back in 2004/2005

Plus it is an Englishman selling a dream to the English so sorry the poor buyes are aslo the victims

And of course the Greek nationals are whiter than white

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 12:57

spot on smity

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
29/06/2011 12:59

roll on 2012 if the gcs are still in the euro!!

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 00:28

message 11:



not sure about this sort of statement...

from the point of view of gc claimants they are indeed victims:



and there is of course the other perspective on the "cyprob" (sic)

which is at least as valid



despite being branded as happy (or unhappy!?!) with the situation

while I wave no banner for either side,

I think this sly and devious caper will not further the gc cause in

the long run, although it is their problem and not mine

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 03:00

Hi andre_514



>>while I wave no banner for either side, <<



out here of get...



>>there is of course the other perspective on the "cyprob" (sic) <<



pls explain the (sic)? .. the property issue, and the 'selling on' of land for private gain - that wasn't legally ( as far as the world outside 'TRNC' / Turkey is concerned) sell-able has simply produced opportunities to fleece and re-fleece third parties..



I got banned from MANY boards for warning potential punters of AGA of the pitfalls... the FACT that the sorry episode was 'allowed' to happen - and that no-one in control hasn't been honest in admitting the farce shouldn't have been allowed to happen has played into the 'rump' RoC's hands - re why not to buy in 'TRNC'...





>>it is their [ GC] problem and not mine<<



Surely, andre.. the 'problem' is mainly anyone who gave money to Aga.. ?

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 06:43

mess 15 - "For the Brits, it was as if they were buying stuff off the back of a lorry”.



A valid point....



i know when i bought off plan - the agents did a good job of glossing over what had happened, and saying whatever happens the kfc government would "protect" the british buyers..........



I now wear my "I got shafted in the TRNC" T shirt with pride............

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 08:31

mmmmmm/msg 15: 'pls explain the (sic)? .. the property issue, and the 'selling on' of land for private gain - that wasn't legally ( as far as the world outside 'TRNC' / Turkey is concerned) sell-able has simply produced opportunities to fleece and re-fleece third parties.. '



When one factors in the ludicrous PTP anomaly situation, it would appear those 'opportunities' haven't yet been fully exploited - 'pull' and 'finger' need to be the 'watchwords' for the TRNC government!

sloan



Joined: 24/02/2009
Posts: 808

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 08:37

Msg 16: We may have been gullible, NN, but weren't those estate agents just oh, so plausible?!!!

Harold2555



Joined: 19/04/2008
Posts: 1139

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 08:43

Mark



your perspicacity knows no bounds but it strikes me that the AGA developments saga origins have only a small root cause in the wider ongoing Cyprus dispute. The fact that the properties are (half) built on Land on which ROC citizens have a claim is not the root cause of the problem in itself. Were you warning specifically on Aga or just generally?



The ROC laws are against the dealing in stolen goods in criminal terms. The availability of an European arrest Warrant is an indication of the flaws in that system and the asssumptions behind it rather than any legal step forward. Whilst I have no sympathy for Mr. Robb he should be able to defend the extradition in my opinion but probably won't be able to.



Harold

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 08:57

Who, or what 'body' allowed the 'stolen goods' [pre '74 GC owned land] to be sold, or given away?



I would suggest that as these people are untouchable, and the GC's know it, this is the reason they have targeted Gary Robb - irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the whole quagmire of apportionment of blame.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 09:03

2005 European Arrest Warrant (EAW) pre

IPC the agreed solution by the ECHR circa 2010

You cannot fight the EAW in the country where its served you are fast tracked to the country where you are charged however flimsy the charge

Robb will be convicted in the banana republic court a given .

He can appeal to EHCR on the trespass and property issues regarding trespasses etc

But the money laundering will no doubt get him so swapping short term porridge for long term fetta

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 09:37

When Garry Robb appeals, probably on the grounds of getting a fair trial, we will find out whether the attitude of the EU towards the TRNC is changing or not.

wanderer


Joined: 05/02/2009
Posts: 1653

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 10:24

Troodo not EU but EHCR noting to do with Europe as Turkey is a member

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 12:37

msg 21,



"money laundering"?

You must know something I don't but surely any alleged money laundering took place in TRNC or "that part of Cyprus outside government control". Doesn't control also imply jurisdiction?

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 12:51

Maybe there was money Laundering,maybe alot of black money came into cyprus to purchase houses here even from brits,who knows only themself.



There has always got to be a fall guy in every case,in this case its got to be GJR.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 13:00

Amanda (mess 25)



Be Careful with your accusations! my money was certainly not black! It was worked for, extremely hard, don't tar everyone with the same brush!



As for a fall guy! I think Robb did his own falling, down his own pit he dug for himself! don't you!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 13:10

re msg 19

Harold



>>your perspicacity knows no bounds<<





You've known me a long time ,now - you must surely realise that it didn't take much skill - having taken into account all the factors prevailing to see where the AGA saga was going...



>> the AGA developments saga origins have only a small root cause in the wider ongoing Cyprus dispute. <<



Back then there weren't the countless ECHR rulings and 'IPCs'



>>The fact that the properties are (half) built on Land on which ROC citizens have a claim is not the root cause of the problem in itself. <<



I think you mean Cypriots - most TCs are citizens of the RoC and many have properties registered in their names in 'the rump' RoC. Some accepted the 'exchange' as the end.. most Cypriots who were disenfranchised did not and still own most of the land Aga started to develop..



>>Were you warning specifically on Aga or just generally? <<



Both ! .. you DO remember Gary Robbs promise to pay any compo due -in any settleme

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 13:15

(cont)



Both ! .. you DO remember Gary Robbs promise to pay any compo due -in any settlement..



I advised NOT to buy ANYWHERE in CY until you knew you could lay hands on internationally recognised deeds and had legal documentation stating the land / home was free of debt / disputed ownership.



Indeed, friends of my brother bought on Aga - they got together and bought 4 places ... even though I warned them NOT to buy.. They were advised I was 'biased' - it was written on the AGA buyers board..:( .. I was just a 'trouble maker', a 'GC stooge' ....

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 13:30

There are two main areas of risk with buying property in North Cyprus. The first is risk associated with the 'disputed' nature of the title. The second is risk associated with buying in a place where the systems to regulate such sales is not fit for purpose. To date only one buyer has suffered loss because of the 'disputed' nature of the title. Thousands, possibly even 10's of thousands have sufferd loss because of the systems to regulate sales in the North are not fit for purpose.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 13:44

I brought land here and built a house, what was I supposed to do, live in a tent - oops, not on supposed GC land. The ECHR says I have rights, end of story.

As for Gary Robb, he should be tried here not in the roc.

It is said our deeds are illegal because we are not recognised, but before any solution will be accepted, the TRNC has to be recognised, if only for a short time, which will validate any TRNC laws. The roc knows this and unless forced will never agree – and so we go on and on, until doomsday.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 14:51

Troodo



re msg 30







The last deal on table - the one the GCs rejected - mainly due to STUPID promises form their departed leader at the time - was 'recognition' that 'TRNC' wasn't EVER going to BE recognised - but that TCs had a right to a recognised self determination / govt. within a new state.. i.e RoC was going, too ..so I don't 'get' your conclusion..

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
30/06/2011 15:38

The last deal on table - the one the GCs rejected.

MM.

Exactly, they would not even agree with that.

Two equal states joining in Federation is the only way forward, or it will not last. So, we have either two equal states joined in Federation, two separate states, or the status quo. Take your pick, whatever; my title deeds will be safe.

The roc will also have to agree to a new name covering the Federation, will they agree, no way, and yet they still kid the world it is they that want a solution.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 01:29

I saw a report somewhere that the EAW is really intended for crimes

that would carry a significant prison sentence, like money laundering



if you step back a pace this garry robb business is an ideal vehicle

for nicosia to demonstrate to the world again that they are classic

victims per se,

...rather than the unsporting losers in a lengthy sectarian dispute



I remain baffled by those who imagine the two sides could ever live

together, demonstrated to europe by a indulgant trial extravaganza



federation....or desperation?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 03:33

Crisitisim of the use and abuse of the EAW system is not hard to find and there does seem to be a growing acceptance within the EU itself of its flaws, especially in terms of what the inetent was when the system was drafted and it use in practice since then. Just one such here.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/22/european-arrest-warrants-extradition-report



Even before the EAW system was drafted and implemented and was just an 'idea' there were people expressing their concerns about it. Here is an example



http://www.cicerofoundation.org/lectures/p4alegre.htm



Over zealous use of it by the RoC may only actualy achieve speeding up its demise or fundamental reform, which is why I think they have chosen Gary Rob, along with the fact that they knew where he was and could serve it easily, and why its highly likely they will not extened the use fo such to 'lesser criminals'.

DeaconB


Joined: 13/07/2010
Posts: 120

Message Posted:
01/07/2011 15:34

Just a thought but would buying property or other items of value e.g. shares, precious metal or such like in the South with money obtained by false promise or deception from victims in the North qualify as money laundering?

or

Would the receiving of a share of such victim’s money by an estate agent, solicitor, or government official amount to being party to a conspiracy?