ceps report - myhtbuster

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 10:46

In answer to the question, "all people who came from Turkey after 1974 including their descendents should return to Turkey after a settlement. The only possible exception is the case of those who married Turkish Cypriots and children of mixed marriages"



65% of GC's say this is satisfactory

72% of TC's say this is unacceptable



So those on the forum who have told us that TC's want settlers out are not representing the majority view.



43,000 settlers now have dual nationality.



Also 93% of TC's are happy with the Turlish army

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 11:05

ilovecyprus



you are welcome to come up to our original turkish cypriot village anytime for a beer.

then you will find out what the true cypriots (5 generation) think of turkish people.

they want them out!

personaly i have turkish family so for me i see it differently.

they have a problem working out the turkish from the kurdish/iraqi/afgani/workers.

they class everyone as turkish which is not the case.



our turkish cypriot village has been, turkish cypriot long before 1974 , so come on up and see what they have to say, don't listen to stupid polls.



also the kimlik the workers recieve is not a full kimlik, just more like a work permit.

throstle


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 85

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 11:09

fire starter

What village is that then

Throstle4eva

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 11:16

Firestarter



Most of your comments are 'I spoke to so an so.... so I personally have come to this conclusion. If your personal observations are more accurate than this poll then great. Hopefully the two leaders will consult with you.



The island is bigger than your village. Polls are designed to pick up the whole community.



I have carefully watched my Turkish settler neighbours and they engage just fine with the local TC's. Also the kids platy football together in the street. Again my observations may be inaccurate and biased.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 11:38

ilovecyprus

questionaires and polls ect. are always set up for the right replys.in the nature of questions being asked. they cannot be relied upon. FACT!



the island may be bigger than my village, but my village is pretty connected and have plenty of family members who are involved in these talks ect.

considering that more or less the whole village is tc, (give or take a few people) and most of these people i class as close friends, who i spend time with on a daily basis, i think i have a pretty good idea of what the tc's feel.



any time you want to come up to pinarbasi, i will introduce you and you can ask them yourself.

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 12:05

Once people integrate into a community it is impossible to reverse this situation especially as the years go on and children are born who no home other than Cyprus. 1974 was a long time ago and to even have a discussion about returning the population to what it was then would be laughed at by the EU or UN in fact by any sane minded politician. You can not turn back time.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 12:21

msge 5



So what you are asking us tio believe is 'Polls are useless, Firestarters personal observations are correct. FACT!



What a load of complete and utter cobblers

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 13:10

ilc,



Going by past record, fire starter has a finger on the pulse and lives in Cyprus full-time. Polls can be skewed and the actual question plus age and social bacground of the sample is crucial.

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 13:13

karakum5c: "...1974 was a long time ago..."



That's what people tend to say after they have bought GC property. It's actually a direct quote from Mrs Orams, who I imagine is wishing she'd engaged brain before buying a holiday home.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 13:19

msge 8



you mean she conforms to your views

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 13:20

msge 10



"it's all made up"



You are having a laugh. What a joker

bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 14:36

Whilst some research and polls might be "skewed" I think this particular poll needs to be respected. The Centre for European Policy Studies (CEPS) has long been known as the "think tank in Brussels"

They are widely used by most large institutions (E.U, Goventment bodies, NHS' Police and Universities)

They have also been an excellent source of information for the Red Cross and other international charities. Acting independently they have carried out lots of work in Cyprus concerning internal displacement whilst working in partnership with the International Peace Research Institute.

I would say that they certainly have more insight into the problems and peoples views than a TC village, because of their wider remit.

Have to say that some people seem to use "hearsay" when it suits their argument but are very condeming of others that do this, and then demand research. This does nothing for constructive debate or allowing for views to be challenged in a constructive way.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 15:05

Msge 13



Good posting Bradus.



Those surveyed also included current and former members of parliament, ministors, mayors, elected officials, political party members as well as Jo public.



There are also some excellent recommendations for bringing the two sides together.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 15:21

More myth busters



"In the context of a settlement, all or almost all of the Greek Cypriots should live in the Greek Cypriot state, while all, or almost all of the Turkish Cypriots should live in the Turkish Cypriot state."



63% of GC's say this is unacceptable

66% of TC's say this is satisfactory or essential



This above statistic could probably change, but a large numebr of TC's feel disillusioned with the GC's for not voting yes in the Annan plan and not allowing International embargoes to be lifted. Gc's don't see TC's as the problem but Turks. Saying that the majority of GC's will support Turkeys entrance in to the EU should a favourable settlement be agreed.



"After the settlement, cyprus should be fully demilitarised. all foreign troops should withdraw and all cypriot armies should be disbanded"



66% of GC's say this is satisfactory

75% of TC's say this is unacceptable

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 15:35

mark

you are debating with fools ,give them the facts and let them deal with them.



fire starter

i have relatives in pinarbasi ,and there are lots of cypriots married to mainland

turks there,too late would you not think .

of course their are cypriots who say they do not want mainland turks ,but ask who they would choose a greek or a turk to live with side by side with and i think you know the answer too that.

i think we all do.

musin



long live the kktc

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 15:37

msge 16



you are so right Musin

Treesy


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 406

Message Posted:
01/11/2008 17:56

Out of curiosity what are the numbers here?



ie how many TCs, Turkish, Brits, Europeans etc North side and how many south side?



I think its obvious unattached Turks will have to go back to Turkey if Cyprus becomes one again - it will be Europe and Turkey isnt - they wont be willing to give them European passports -



and anyway - they will have to make room for the Polish and other eastern Europeans







- why did you all leave the UK????????????????

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 16:54

musin

i don't disagree with what you are saying, i have a cypriots friend who recently married a turkish woman. but on the whole most cypriots would not want their son or daughter marrying someone turkish.



only last night in the village there was a fight between a cypriot guy and a turkish guy.

the trouble is most(not all) of the turkish families in the village, are dirty, have loads of kids, who steal from the local shop, and generaly play up and have no money to spend. they are always talking about there being too many turks moving in here, the locals don't want them.

a while ago we were at the coffee shop and i asked them if they would accept any greek cypriots living in the village? there was uproar! never!

they are all for a solution, but not in our village.



ilovecyprus

anyone who has studied marketing knows that all questionaires and surveys are bias, based on the questions asked. FACT!

mitsi


Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 345

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 17:46

Agree that polls are slanted and not to be trusted. Too many things to consider just as in research For instance some years ago some research was conducted on Cranberry juice to see if it was beneficial to help prevent urine infections. The outcome was positive and it was of benefit. However the people conducting the tests were Ocean Spray, who made it. Obviuosly, the nursing bodies rejected the findings and only after independent studieas were done did they believe the findings, which in effect, were correct, it is very beneficial in preventing urinary tract infection(not for curing it once you have it though). We need to know who is conducting the research and are they biased, which subjects were interviewed ie; were they all women or men and of mixed age groups or all of the same age etc; etc; It is all important to do good research from a wide selection of test subjects. Also I know many tc's who really dislike the Turkish mainlanders and want them to go home.

Awful situation

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 19:16

thank you mitsi

when i studied marketing this was something i found quite interesting.

now when someone asks me to complete a questionaire like with hire companies or hotels, i always try to work out what they realy want to know.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
02/11/2008 19:51

Lets be clear many polls are poorly constructed and in many cases the results are indeed skewed. Mitsis example on Ocean Spray is indeed a good example of bias. You can't have a company like Ocean Spray conduct a poll when they clearly have something to gain.

It is also impossible to fully to guage a persons true feelings on a situation, not 100% accurately, in any case, but I respect this polls findings more than any one individuals word.



Now I suggest you read Bradus's post very carefully msge 13. I have seen polls on the Cyprus issue and have ignored their findings because they have been poorly constructed. This poll was conducted by a very respected organisation and was endorsed by both the GC's and TC's. I suggest that you read the report and pay particular attention to how the poll was conducted. It was extremely thorough in it's construction, it's implementation and analyis. Anyone who is serious about understanding the Cyprus situation should read it.