quality of homes in the trnc

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 12:23

Many people are saying the standard of the homes in the north are rubbish,they say they have no real foundation so there is a damp problem,and no installation so hard tp heat or to cool.



What i find hard to believe is that some of these luxury villas i have seen on the internet,which seem to look perfect have problems ?



Also if you bought a plot of land could you not make sure you had one built with a double skin and installation,gas cental heating,proper foundations ect.



In the south you can not do the work yourself is it the same in the north.



Has any 44 member built there own to a high spec.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 12:33

As the materials for a "High Spec" build are not readily available the answer to you last question has to be NO



Most people that bought a "Luxury Villa" advertised on the Internet,were also sadly surprised..........

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 12:39

Get a proper builder for eg Korman and you get a good quality home we have absaloutly no problems.

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 12:43

So would you say to build your own is the only way to get a good property without hidden faults.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
04/07/2011 13:08

msg3 Getting a proper builder is only the first trick,getting a "High Spec" result with "inferior" materials is quite another ... .How long was your builders Guarantee?

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 04:45

Home is 7 years old, no faults no damp, no settlement exept for a few surface cracks which are rectified when repainted. Any rectifcation of what we considered faults have been properly attended to. I am not one of the family or related. (mores the pity)

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 09:41

We took part in the design and build. purchased land first.



You need to be here to do it, We have good quality build, high spec. our villa is desinged to live in ,(not a holiday home) there is big difference'



We used a good architect, I planned and designed all Bathrooms and Kitchens, (that was my main business in the UK) If I hadn't of done then they would have been a fiasco. IE big basins in front of doors, WC.s in wrong positions etc.



I also sat on there faces when finishing jobs took place, or did them myself. ( still had to carry out a 2 week deep clean)



Know one can ever build nearby, also our views can never be blocked, we have the most incredible views.



There are still a few niggles, things we may have done different, also there was the small point of no electric for 15 mnths.



But yes it is possible to acheive. Stress Level. 12 out of 10.



Thank God the Red Wine is cheap here.

Pamperurself


Joined: 24/07/2010
Posts: 49

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 10:50

like many other countries you get what you pay for.

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 10:55

Well that is very positive it can be done.



Has anyone done double skin block work with installation.



How much work are you allowed to do yourself.

itfc1978


Joined: 31/03/2009
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 11:41

It is perfectly possible to purchase a good quality build with no associated problems.



Look for a builder who builds to order.

Inspect as many of his finished builds as possible.

Talk to owners,always ask about their experience of obtaining kochan from builder.



Avoid builders with unfinished/unsold property

Avoid unfinished complexes , actually avoid complexes full stop.



Get an independent brief.

Central heating not necessary,a woodburner,some supplementary heating eg oil rad and rugs/small unfixed carpets will see you through.

You will get cyprus rust in the winter but this is not damp just salt coming through. Easy fix in summer.

Get as much marble as possible in the build.(cooling)

To see what can be achieved go for a meal at Midsummer House,the food is great the house is super.

Don`t look to compare with UK builds, the houses are built differently here and considering the extremes of weather generally hold up well.

I sometimes wonder how well a UK build would co

ozankoys


Joined: 20/06/2008
Posts: 905

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 11:43

I am not a structural engineer but the foundations here are different to those normally found in UK. A steel reinforced concrete raft is built and then steel reinforced concrete columns are built on top to form a shell for the building. I believe this is the structure recommended for earthquake zones.

We built our house from the base, had the normal overall uk standard plastic membrane for damp course and also had double walls constructed with cavity bricks. The normal construction here is one wall using cavity bricks. We did not have insualtion between the two walls but our house is cool in summer and warms up very quickly as soon as the central heating goes on in the winter. We have now lived in the house for 6 years & have never had our heating on in the morning as some heat is retained overnight despite the boiler going off around 21.00.

We decided on wooden floors in the bedrooms as these are more comfortable for bare feet in the winter!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 12:03

Let's face it - the majority of developers/'builders' are simply 'dump-it-and-run-merchants' - North or South!!!



Any of them are totally dependant on the skill, or lack of, of their migrant Turkish labourers.



What a 'Lotto'!!!

Bertie


Joined: 15/04/2008
Posts: 155

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 12:54

Agree wholeheartedly with Johnnylee it is possible we also bought land and built but you cannot at any stage get complaisant and the finish is where it does get really intense as angle grinders are the tool of choice. There are however too many x-waiters, bank managers et all turned builders.

fatelady


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 61

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 13:00

we were very lucky the builder we had a Mr Erol was fantastic , we have had very little go wrong with the villa in the 5 years since it was built, no leaks , damp, cracks, electrical problems , nothing touch wood , you need to shop around and get verbal endorsements from satisfied clilents, and the biggest thing is you or someone you trust has to be on site checking up on the crew all the time you can not expect it will all be done each time you go away and leave the project for months on end .

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
05/07/2011 13:05

I agree word of mouth is always best.



can someone tell me can you build yourself or is a licence required.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 14:13

I very much doubt that with the exception of Tenakoutou, many of you on this board really understand the fundamentals of modern house construction. Msg 10, mentions "Cyprus Rust" or to give it it's correct name "effervescent's" which is caused by water dissolving the salts in the mortar... it is NOT normal in a house with adequate damp coursing,the concrete work here with regard to the supporting frame structure is in many cases the worst I have ever see,Re-bar exposed,or omitted,supporting columns filled by hand with varying strengths of concrete mixed by hand in a barrow....It beggars belief...........And pray tell me when anyone has seen a "clerk of works" or "Building Controller" on any site.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 15:02

Msg10...If the houses were built with simple additions like Proper Foundations, Damp course, Insulation,and above all in these extremes of climate "Expansion Joints" there would rarely be any problems......but they pay peanuts for the houses to be built by monkeys.......And that's what you get, They may look good on the outside but it's what lies beneath that makes it good or bad....And even the good ones here are bad....



Don't Buy Rent........

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 15:59

We rebuilt a ruin or part of the house which was one.

The old part is over 100 yrs old and we have no damp problems at all.

The new/ rebuilt part has footings , a damp course and walls about 2ft thick. We kept it traditional but used modern building methods.

When we asked the JCB driver to dig footings he wondered what we were doing,lol.

We are cool in summer and warm in winter. We don't need cental heating!

The modern built houses have gone away from the old tradtional methods ,materials and designs, thats the problem.

JohhnyLee


Joined: 25/04/2009
Posts: 2495

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:04

We did not pay peanunt's far from it. We also paid a lot extra for our land due to location. But yes you do get what you pay for. But like I said there are still minor niggles, buit You expect that. Just the same that you can think you have designed it right, and then of course after you realise that there are lots of thing's that could have been better.



But it's not a perfect world.



Also very very important, the land that you build on needs to be stable, and not simply a pile of rubble or loose ground, that slides away in the first heavy rains.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:31

No Blade, the problem is that the "MODERN" methods used here,would be condemnable anywhere else that has any form of building control.Solid (single skin )walls are not thermally efficient long term nor do they allow for vertical damp course separation ...Modern insulation methods use such materials as 25mm "Celotex rr "cavity board and retain a 50mm air gap known as an "atmospheric bridge".....traditional damp course is in many cases replaced with damp trays,which shed moisture to the outside skin ... Many old buildings have "NON" porous stone in the foundations, and porous stone above in order to create a sponge effect and allow the moisture to evaporate into the air (An ancient form of Dehumidifier)Many old churches are built using this method.....So I am afraid that MODERN, PROPERLY BUILT HOUSES would not be a problem here ... if only they would, or indeed could.

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:35

Thanks all



My question is if you do a new build can you do your own spec,and can be your own project manager and pay on completion of each stage,starting with a strong foundation,then double skin block work with insulation and so on.



In the south the architect designs the build which is obviously normal,and you agree on the spec,what i dont like is they also control the payments,and if the work has been done properly.



Is it the same in the north or can i say to a builder do the foundations to how i want them if im happy and building control are happy(if there is that) i will pay you and then you can price for the next stage.



To try and stay in control as you would in the uk.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:54

stelee77,, My concern would be that the materials you would need for a "UK Sandard"dwelling are not available here,I have never seen so much as a stainless steel wall tie,let alone decent insulation....I have also never heard of "Stage Payments", although as you say ,they are common place in UK.....I think you would have to send your SPEC to an architect for ratification,,To do what you want to do here sounds like the beginning of your worst nightmare .........I do wish you "Bonne Chance" with your dream.....

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:59

For us it was more of a renovation than starting from scratch. We did initially get advice from an architect but found they were hard work .

We went about things by getting advice from local people, expats and even friends who are tradesmen in the UK. It amazing what you can get done for free in return for a free holiday.

The hardest part of what we did was finding local materials, there is no screfix to call up here for deliveries, so that all takes time. But the more we did, the more help from local people we had.

Would i do it all over again? No probably not here in the TRNC. The costs also escalated from start to finish. We have a fantastic house which we love but will never see the money back we have spent on it.

If you decide to do something like this just take into account, time, costs and the digger driver who knocks down gates cos his breaks are gone,lol.

Good Luck what ever you decide.

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 17:12

So if you wanted you could do a lot of the work yourself,or at least get people in as you please,what i mean is not be commited to one builder for the whole contract,who could screw the whole thing up.



I understand that the materials may not be the best,but good foundations and double skin block work with ties and insulation are a must.



I dont know how the steel structure is done but when it is erected i would seriously consider doing the block work myeslf.Is a different foundation required for the block work or is it all part of the steel frame construction.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 17:43

Steel frame construction, you've lost me.......The houses here are constructed with a reinforced concrete "Frame,,, Blocked between columns.single skin....but by making the slab 150mm larger outside the columns,you could build an outer skin,although as I have said ,good insulation,and wall ties are non existent...As is good quality Damp course.........Scaffolding as you know it is not present either..........

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:03

Thats what i ment i have seen it in paphos all the rods sticking up and then the wooden shutters are erected around it and the concrete is droped in then when it sets it is removed,and theres your structure.



yeah i remember i now understand you.Would a uk style house be allowed and would it survive a tremor.



The only other way would to build a second skin around the structure but not tied in.



I could be wrong but im sure i have seen on the internet firms that will erect a steel structure almost like four up rights then the horizontal cross members,that support all the roof and take the weight out of it so if there's a tremor it stays in one piece,then you fill in between your up rights as normal with blocks,and i see no reason it cant be double skinned and tied with insulation.



This was in the south ?



If i could get a frame up i could do the roof and blockwork,but not without scaffolding.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:13

stelee..I doubt a Cypriot reinforced house would stand a tremor let alone a UK one....there are firms that manufacture steel frame houses but I bet the Import Duty would be cost Prohibitive,,,just guessing...contact one of them with your idea....

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:22

Thanks for your advice.



Maybe i cant have what i want,i dont mind renting for a while but it would be nice to have somewhere to call home at some point,which is well built.



there is no info on the internet,starting to think the north is to much hard work.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:26

"Fools Rush In" etc...I am so glad you are not one of them........Good Luck....

rowlo



Joined: 12/10/2008
Posts: 4796

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:28

stelee77, most uk homes come in kit form , have you thought of that idea ?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:47

martinD41:



It's very kind of you to mention that I am knowledgeable about building methods, however I must hasten to say that my 'know-how' is miniscule compared to yours. I have worked on commercial and housebuilding sites in Aussie, Kiwi, and in UK for a short time in the '80's and noted the various construction methods. As far as Cypriot 'building' is concerned, the whole basic structure is fundamentally flawed and, as you so rightly say, would be condemned in any civilised country - in fact, would never even pass the planning permission stage.



Unwashed beach sand, 8:1 concrete mix, and rusty, undersize, rebar - no wonder these 'concrete tents' disintegrate so rapidly! My advice would be to 'get rid' before 9 years is up - actually, not my advice, it came from one of the few and far between honest Cypriot builders!

Dixie Normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 18:49

As every shepherd and his dog became a builder in 2002 and every company here relies upon unskilled & cheap labour from the Antalonian plains, even if good build material were available the build would be a shack by the time a few corners were cut, poor grade concrete used and the quick fix attitude that exists applied. If your 50 yrs old, buy a house that looks as if it will last 30yrs (many don't) live in it for 20 years then flog it off to an unsuspecting Brit before you flit off back to the UK to enjoy what the NHS has left to offer, or better still rent off a nice geezer like me and keep your dosh safe.



D.N

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 20:18

Okay well im 33 and if i go to north or south cyprus i have no plans of ending up back in the uk to fall apart in an old peoples home,no chance.



I do want to rent at first,maybe on the east side catalkoy or ozankoy,what have you got on offer dixie.



I dont agree most homes in the uk are kit form,but timber frames are becoming popular because slightly cheaper to build and much better insulation for some reason.I wonder if they are allowed and how they would react to a tremor,there is a single brick course outside the frame.



I really dont know about this one now,and i want to build an impressive villa real bad,unless i can find a resale and get it underpinned and put the extra course on myself,yeah maybe thats the way.

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 23:19

Stelee77

Live here while your villa is being built and inspect daily. Your daily inspection should be written into your contract and you Must have power of veto if not satisfied with the standard of work at any stage.(I had walls knocked down at 3ft high because they were built by cowboys and stopped the concrete foundations from being poured beucase the steels were not clear of the gravel beneath them.)



Your payment plan Must be written into the contract also and only pay by stages of the build. Do not pay a penny more until the previous stage is completed to your satisfaction. Stipulate, quality products and washed sand. Check the depth of gravel under the ground floor foundations to eliminate rising damp. If necessary bring "Damp Coursing" from the UK ( I brought 12 rolls of it.) Check the correct steels are being used in the foundations and columns and floors, stairs etc.

A GOOD builder will not question your right to have an expert check his build at any stage of the build.

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 00:13

Thanks birdman



I thought if you was carefull and use your head your be alright,my worry was a contract would not be worth the paper it was written on.



The way is see it if someone else has done it right i can do it to,so im glad you put that post in.



could you please tell me who does the contract is it an independent soliciter or is it through the architect.

p4aul


Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 00:57

For what it is worth, and speaking as a builder in the UK with 38 years of experience, I can honestly say that I have not had one problem from start to finish, that’s not being self-righteous, that’s how it is.



Purchased the land, despite being told at the time by numerous “estate agents” you will never get a builder here to build a one off!!! You must buy off plan, it’s the only way.



Found a very good, reliable builder, looked at his previous projects and liked what I seen.



This was after looking around and seeing some absolute crap, built by people who clearly had no idea about construction; it was good to finally find a proper builder, who had followed the same trade as me in Australia knew what he was talking about and actually cared about his work, and what he was providing for his clients.



Had the plans drawn up, and very detailed specification of what was included and what would be extras.



Instructed the builder, who just got on with the job, my instruction to him

p4aul


Joined: 12/10/2007
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 00:58

was if he thought something needed to be alerted during construction, just do it, after all, he does it for a living and has the experience, its all about trust, either you are going to trust your builder, or there is no point working together, it’s a partnership and we didn’t waste our money on one of those useless client-builder contracts, where everyone asks, the build is late, do I sue the builder and upset him and never have my villa built.



Build completed, Kochan received, villa registered on the title, all done by the builder, who was it: Sydney Construction, Zafer, probably the best builder on the island, but that’s just my opinion.

PhilUK


Joined: 31/03/2010
Posts: 236

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 03:28

Message 16- or to give it it's correct name "effervescent's" -hmm, I think you will find it's called efflorescence.

Effervescents are what alka seltzers do.

Property expert eh?

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 07:40

philUK/msg 38: 'Property expert eh?'



So, are YOU claiming 'TOP SPOT' suddenly - with your 6 [unrelated to building] posts?

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 08:58

It's OK Ten,I suppose I could say it was a "Deliberate" mistake,but in truth it was more of a "Senior Moment",40 or more years in the building trade leaves a lot to remember.....And I still don't trust my Spell Checker..

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 13:36

Re message 25.



I drew plans for my villa to scale on Graph paper, so the design was mine from the start, and presented it my chosen "builder" who submitted it to his architect for the final drafting. I went to look at buildings he was constructing and which were at various stages of construction.

He wanted me to use His notary ( He was a Notary himself !) but I chose my own independent NOTARY .

I drew up a list of requirements including such things as :- where plugs, wall switches, TV points, light/fans,

windows, fireplaces, air conditioners, kitchen work surfaces and worktops, fitted wardrobes, ETC ETC and asked my Notary to include them into the contract, with such things as STAGE payments, how much each stage (?)

Inspection rights and rights for an expert too inspect, AT ANY TIME DURING THE BUILD. ( THIS WAS A STANDARD BUILDING CONTRACT BUT WITH MY ADDED CLAUSES) A price was agreed with all my extra -AND I STUCK TO IT !!!!!! The builder asked for all the extras tobe paid for

birdman



Joined: 20/09/2010
Posts: 690

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 13:42

continued.

as extras but as he had already signed the contract and given a build cost including the extras, I refused to give him a penny more. He refused to complete the build - some minor points - or to complete the garden, - big deal (!), but as I had the Kocan after the first phase, I was happy to complete the build myself, having spent about £10,000 of my own money to have the villa I had designed. We still talk when we meet and he is proud to show prospective clients, my villa as an example of his work !!



Gerry

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 14:08

Nice one gerry.



It sounds like you stayed in control but expected a few hickups anyway.



Ill work it all out,ive been around the block a few times.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 14:53

Very well done indeed Gerry........It seems you pulled off the near impossible,at least over here anyway.....

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 15:33

Using any of the metal here you are destined for failure. It rusty before you start!

Check out some of the builds from the USA and places on earthquake fault lines. From what i understand it about your foundations and house shape.