Good news and bad. UK pets rules

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 15:45

i have just spoken to DEFRA on the phone from the 1st Jan 2012 this is how it is.

The good news:

The TRNC is still classed as a third country.

Your pet needs a micropchip, rabies jabs, serology report done at an EU approved lab. Then three months from the serology report you have to wait before entry into the UK.

You also need a third country vets certificate which can be downloaded from their website, to be completed.

The bad news:

There are currently no approved routes from the TRNC.

If you dog goes via Turkey it will still have to do quarantine as Turkey does not have any approved routes either.

To exit the TRNC you must fly directly to a EU country and then enter the UK from there.

Technically all of the EU countries are coming into line. Maybe the Roc will oblige?

You can start to prepare your pet now so that it can leave on the 1st of Jan 2012 if you so wish.



I hope that now everyone has things clear!

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 15:51

Thanks Blade. However, you say if you go via Turkey, do you mean flying from Turkey or driving through Turkey and has anyone else actually done this?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:11

Whistler the changes to DEFRA rules that will allow a pet into the UK from a 'non listed' country without having to go through 6 months quarantine in the UK do not come into force until Jan 2012, so this new system has not been 'tested' yet.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/news/2011/06/30/new-rules-pet-passports/



The hope is that Turkey, via Turkish Airlines, will be added to thew list of approved routes before Jan 2012. For details on what is currently considered an 'approved route' have a look here.

http://www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/pets/routes/



Aproved route as I understand it involves a location AND an approved carrier.

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:36

Dogs and cats resident in an unlisted country entering the UK via another EU country

As pet travel rules for entry to the UK will be the same as the rest of the EU there is no advantage in entering another EU country before onward transfer to the UK i.e to avoid quarantine. Your pet must meet the standard EU entry rules (microchip, travel documentation, vaccination, post-vaccination blood test a month after vaccination, and have served their waiting period of 3 months post-blood test at origin).



From Defra website.

Hazel


Joined: 18/04/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:46

Perhaps we could start an online petition if anyone knows how to do it so that it can be sent to DEFRA. If they don't realise the problem which could easily be solved then perhaps they could address it. The frustrating thing is that we're all on one island and therefore commonsense dictates that there is no greater risk travelling back to UK from here compared with travelling from the South.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:46

I have been throught this on the phone with DEFRA.

There currently is no approved route from either the TRNC or Turkey.

One of the airlines needs to apply to become an approved route.

Turkey has no approved route, anyone entering the UK via Turkey goes to quarantine.

If there were an airline which flew directly from the TRNC into another EU country then that is the way you would have to go.

They said that all EU countries are coming into line, so there is no reason other than the obvious for the Roc to refuse. I will try and get time this week to email the correct department and see what there stand is on it.



Whistler its about arriving on an approved route which is the problem, cos there are none.

Hazel


Joined: 18/04/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:50

Appreciate the information and hope you can find out more, thanks.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 16:56

My understanding, which might not be correct, is that Turkish Airlines have applied to get approved status.



Blade there are two issues with the specfic case of moving an animal from the North to the South. There are the overall rules and regulations regarding bringing pets into the RoC, rules and regulations that are being harmonised with general EU polices so that they are consistent throughout EU countries AND then ontop of those are the specific ruels and regulations that apply to the Green Line. Even if and when the RoC adopt the same polices as those DEFRA will be using in 2012 there will still be the Green Line regulations as well. These will also need to be ammended before crossing from North to So.uth with pets will be viable. These rules are specific to JUST the green line that is unique to the Cyprus situation. It is possible they will be ammended but there are no signs at all atm that this in on the agenda, unlike the general rules and EU harmonisation of them.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 17:08

Erolz, i agree something needs to give here.

The north accept dogs from the south via the greenline. So maybe if the south could agree to give a little then it would all be ok. The entry requirements are actually more harsh to enter the north than the south, from outside.

The woman at DEFRA did say to keep a watch on their website as new routes would be on there as and when they are approved. I hope Turkish airlines do get approval.

The only downside to that i have been seeing is they appear to pick and choose a little on which dogs they will and won't carry. They recently refused someone with 4 German shepherds but have been bring in other dogs.

We need an airline who is going to take all dogs on that route. Or the Roc to lighten up a little.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 17:39

All I am trying to make clear is that as far as moving animals from North to South goes it is not just about the general rules in EU countries that is the issue. If the only problem with moving an animal from North to South were that the RoC had general rules that stoped such or required 6 months qurantine, then the efforts of the EU to harmonise such rules accross the EU, as seen in the changes being made by DEFRA, would indeed be reason to be optimistic that such is on the agenda for change. However this is not the case, in addition ot the general rules there are also specific rules about the Green Line. These rules, whilst having an impact on moving an animal from North to South, are not specficaly about this but about something very different. I certainly would like to see the green line rules ammended to allow pets with right documents and test to pass freely, I just do not think harmonisation of general rules by EU is reason to suspect this will soon happen. I hope I am wrong.

daisythedog


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 73

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 21:55

Blade - in regard to your comments re Turkish Airline and the carrying of animals- I have been escorting dogs and cats for their owners from Ercan to Paris via Istanbul over the past year, yes they have rules about the number of animals accepted per flight ( weight and box dimensions taken into account) and there are restrictions on which aircraft are suitable for each request.

I have had two large dogs able to go together, 3 cats in one large box and shortly will have one medium size dog and a cat on same flight.

I doubt that 4 GSD's would ever be able to travel on same flight, maybe two at a time.

as Turkish Airlines have a licence to carry animals into other European countries they will have a head start on any other carrier applying.

If they get approval the fare for owner or escort could be about half of that to Paris!!

whatever happens the animals will be able to go legally into Uk, wether it be hopefully via Turkey or via France etc after 1-1-2012.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
06/07/2011 23:02

Can't one fly to Paris or Italy from Ercan? If so, can dogs be taken then, or are no airlines approved? I am asking that from the convenience pointof view, or does the same ruling apply to France? If not, then surely onward transmission is a doddle, or maybe one could go on the train through the tunnel form Paris to U.K. anyone know about this?

Hazel


Joined: 18/04/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 11:52

Daisythedog,

Will a pet passport already issued from the South to a pet, rabies vaccinations done, blood tests done, but pet is in the North be able to use that Pet Passport to enter UK via the Turkish airlines route, (once it has approval)??

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 11:58

Erolz, I think if i remember right the wording regarding the greenline is ' live animals' i am not sure they are meaning domestic pets? More likely to be livestock. I do know from this end they are classed differently. The problem is still an approved route as the greeline is not a legal point of entry as far as dogs go, under the Roc rules.

Daisy, i am not having a go directly at Turkish airlines, i do know they take dogs. But we need a more reliable carrier if this is to work well. They failed my customer and lost out on the job to a Greek airline, who will take 4 dogs at once. I would have thought that an airline as large as Turkish airlines could see an opening in this market and act upon it?

Marion, if you can fly directly from Ercan to another EU country, the UK have no problem if from that country you use an approved route to enter the UK. I quized them on it yesterday to see what options we had.

daisythedog


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 73

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 13:08

Hazel, Pets that have an up to date EU Pet passport will be able to use it enter the Uk from an unlisted country without the 3 month waiting period after 1-1-2012.

It just remains to seen if turkish Airlines get approval, otherwise it's still via france etc but legally!

CTA used to be licenced to carry animals, it's only since their demise that it's been neccessary to use only TA, maybe if they ever get the proposed new airline going and licenced there might be a choice.

Blade -all my jobs were escorted excess baggage, suspect your 4 GSDs went as cargo, yes I know Turkish are a nightmare in that area.

Marion - No direct flights from Ercan to Paris etc , it's TA to Istanbul,then change planes to Paris. It is quite legal to do that now as long as the microchiop, & rabies stuff are done and 3 month rule followed. It's the onward to Uk that's dodgy until 1-1-12.

You can only take animals through the tunnel in a car from Calais, they are not allowed on the eurostar from Paris.

Hazel


Joined: 18/04/2008
Posts: 65

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 13:19

Hi DD Thanks for that, maybe Pegasus could apply to do so, that would be the best option all round. We have a pet qualified to go but we're unable to leave yet.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 16:00

No Marion, the dogs were being escorted. Its a shame they lost out to a greek airline.



Daisy, what DEFRA are saying is, that if you fly into Turkey then try to enter the UK your dogs go to quarantine, because they have no approved route. So if you fly to France from Turkey then enter the UK it is possible but still not entirely legal. If you have a pet passport that should be fine, but if you have a third country certificate i am guessing there could be a problem.

daisythedog


Joined: 17/07/2009
Posts: 73

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 17:57

extract from Defra announcement-

'As pet travel rules for entry to the Uk will be the same as the rest of the EU there is no advantage in entering another EU country before onward transfer to the UK i.e to avoid quarantine. your pet must meet the standard EU entry rules etc etc'

that does not say not legal!!

as the announcement has only just been made and there are 5 months to go until it comes into force there is plenty of time for new routes and carriers to be approved.

after all Turkey is not the only country that is unlisted and without approved routes.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/07/2011 18:17

Yes, what they were saying is that if you can find an EU approved route from the TRNC, it could possibly be to another EU contry then you would be in transit to the UK.

What they are also saying is that currently any dog going to the UK from Turkey or via Turkey would need to do 6 months quarantine. That would be until a time if and when there is an approved route. Both from the TRNC via where ever in the EU. Or from the TRNC to Turkey to the UK.



The fact of the matter is that until there is an approved route to move animals from the TRNC to the UK, we have not gained a thing. Cheat the system at your own risk, thats your choice. I love my dogs and would never ever put them at any risk what so ever. Everyone to their own.



Let start to lobby Turkish airlines to get this sorted or the Roc goverment/ EU ,rather than spliting hairs. This is becoming non constructive. i am up for anything that helps people to get their dogs out of here legally. I am not up for doing anything illegal.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 00:01

Thanks daisythedog for the info. It is good to know that with the appropriate Pet Passport (microchip, rabies etc) which my dog has, that at least if I want to, I can go via another EU country. what happens after 1sst January can be an improvement. At the mo I have no plans, but I want toknow that if I leave I can take my dog without her suffering quarantine.

One things that kinda annoys me is that I can take my dog to Turkey and then she is hav invg to go into quarantine when she comes back, and yet turkish Cypriots friends of mine refer to turkey as 'motherland'. I know it is because there are rabies in Turkey, but again with the innoculation, all should be well. Just another part of the interesting life we have here.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 00:45

Just to remind everyone.

The current rules have not changed. In theory any pet or other animal that can be legally imported to the UK has to be chipped and have a pets passport.

If from an EU country but originally (within the rules for time in the EU etc etc) coming from a non EU "chipped" country (or directly from a non-EU country) and that animal currently travels into the UK: according to DEFRA rules it should suffer six months quarantine.



Convoluted so in simple terms taking a pet from the TRNC to the UK should involve quarantine. There are ways that people get round it (if the animal has a current pets passport) but those ways are verging on illegal !!!!!



The rules for bringing a pet into the TRNC are tame if compared to the UK. The route to do it so that owner and pet suffer least calamity, tension and unpleasantness is best put into expert hands rather than the slightly cheaper DIY. (I know from the number of clients we have helped.)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 00:45

Blade msg 19 said "The fact of the matter is that until there is an approved route to move animals from the TRNC to the UK, we have not gained a thing. "



That is not correct Blade as I understand it. Atm you can move an animal from TRNC, using TRNC documents to France, then in France you can 'fudge' the history of the animal, loosing the TRNC documentation and gaining French documentation, and then onto the UK. How 'legal' this is is debatable but this route has been used in the past. With the new DEFRA proposals due on 1st Jan 2012 you can use this same route but WITHOUT having to 'fudge' the animals history or 'loose' the TRNC documentation. Even without an approved route via Turkey this is an improvement as a result of the new DEFRA rules.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 00:49

Agreed Erolz. some of us don't like trying to 'fudge' things, and anything that makes life easier is always a huge bonus.



L:et's hope that Turkish airlines can be an approved carrier, as that will make life even easier. But we know that any applications from here can take ages, but better a positive step forwards than none at all.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 10:09

Fudgeing the paperwork is far from legal. Do you actually think DEFRA don't know about this fudging? You can go and enter France but when you fudge the paperwork you will still have to wait and get new paper work there. You could just as easily fudge the paperwork in counties like Bulgaria or Slovenia which are much closer to the TRNC.

I know we don't have rabies here but fudging the system puts a risk to my country. Turkey does have rabies i am told, so traveling through there what happens if you pet catches it? Also if you get caught fudging it is a criminal offence!



Tom , is there anyway you can get some info to see if any airline from the TRNC or Turkey has applied for approved status? At least then we would know that there was possible hope for the future without the fudging.

flightholiday


Joined: 19/07/2007
Posts: 3217

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 13:31

William Msg 24 - I personally agree with your fudging point. The risk of Rabies etc is why the UK has it's rules and they don't only apply to pets but potatoes, meats etc as well. The fact that the EU chipping system applies in the South but not the North is silly but that is the way of the world is it not?



With regard to finding out about the approval. If I could it would be commercially sensitive information both for the airline and also for IAH so I would not divulge it on an open forum. Two extra reasons:

a] Why help my competitors at my expense.

b] A lot of clients ask questions and then go DIY to save a few pounds, so again why should I help them.

In the past IAH Ltd has helped them and it has taken hours of work and costs.

We try to work professionally and honestly and will go overboard to try to help our own customers in most instances we have only broken even with pet carriage because we put far more into assisting the clients than most would treating them like friends

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 13:50

Blade I was not condoning the 'fudging' I was pointing out that your claim that without an approved route there would be no benefit to the changes DEFRA are making on Jan 1st 2012. One benefit, as I understand it, is that the same route that has in the past been used by 'fudging' the issue will be usable without having to 'fudge' and therefore in a legal manner. This then is a benefit of the new changes DEFRA are bringing in, that do not require an 'approved route'. There is enough confusion around the whole thing already, all I am doing is trying my best to explain what I understand to be the case. Saying there is no benefit fromthe changes without an approved route is just not the case as I understand it. Hope that is clear now.

Whistler


Joined: 28/07/2008
Posts: 1332

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 14:14

Agree with you Erol. I think this whole thing is getting out of hand now with too many people thinking they know better than others. You can only do your best and as far as I am concerned, what I read on Defra`s site which is quite clear is what I will abide by.

Tango1


Joined: 19/02/2011
Posts: 1151

Message Posted:
08/07/2011 14:32

Without wanting to be flippant, I do agree with making sure you use an accceptable definition for your dog. When we first moved here I was told the small white dogs were "Cyprus poodles" by virtue of the fact that they needed to be clipped regularly (as are poodles) but over the last 6 years the name Cyprus Terrier has become more the norm. I still consider one of our dogs to be a Cyprus Poodle which is much more acceptable to the UK authorities I understand than the word "terrier". Just a thought!!



Tango1

spanna


Joined: 12/01/2009
Posts: 544

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 00:32

OK - so forgive me for being thick... can someone please clarify - if my dog has a pet passport issued in the South - can my dog travel legally to the UK from NC - via another EU country from January ... or am I missing the point totally...? Sorry... too many posts confusing me - doesn't take a lot, i can assure you!



Thanks.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 00:53

Spanna, yes, as far as I understand this, it can though its not specificaly a 'pet passport' it would need. The requirments would be, from 1st Jan 2012



Microchip

Rabies vaccination

Blood test - Blood sample taken at least 30 days after vaccination.

Documentation ( third country certificate)

Pre-entry waiting period - 3 months after blood sample date



In fact it could enter the UK via ANY third country that had an approved route to the UK, and that you could get it too legaly from the TRNC. In addition if a carrier gets approved route status, like Turkish airlines then you could go 'direct' without the need to use a third country with the above requirments. Thats my understanding and both possibilites, via a third country or 'direct' are improvements over what can be done today (without 'fudging').

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/07/2011 01:59

Will these direct flights which have been running into Poland help?

shel56


Joined: 10/09/2008
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
05/09/2011 14:52

I flew my cat out of here in 2006 with Turkish Airlines into Madrid where we stayed for a couple of months then took him back into the UK with a Spanish Government Pet Passport. All his paperwork was in order he just didn't have a pet passport at the time. He was an English cat taken to Saudi Arabia then brought here.



Not sure if this helps!

nicola


Joined: 06/09/2011
Posts: 246

Message Posted:
05/10/2011 19:30

As from 1.1.12 you can take an animal with a full pet passport from anywhere in the world into the UK without quarantine restrictions.