advice please

yesplease


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 14:55

Hi All

Im hoping i may be able to get some assistance in a difficult matter i have. I am a non resident father of 2 small children, whose mother remarried 3 yrs ago in Cyprus. The mother has now decided to move to North Cyprus with her husband and my children, there is nothing i can do to stop the move from happening and as i am totally commited to my children who i see several times a week, i am contemplating moving aswell.

Unfortunately i have not visited the island before, though i am well travelled and have lived on small islands in different parts of the world before.

I work in the restaurant and catering trade at management level, for the past 25yrs, so would like to find employment in this sector.

I have no savings and very liitle money to take with me, is there any advise as to my next move i.e finding cheap temporary accomodation, finding a full time job, and generally a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated and give me some peace of mind.

Thanks

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 15:21

I have no savings and very liitle money to take with me, is there any advise as to my next move .....................



Surely your next move is to try and prevent your ex-wife from taking the children to another 'country'.

sassycypgirl


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 15:27

IMO you are still young 40ish. You can not make a living here if you are a brit.

The tourism industry is very low at present and the signs for the future year are not good. If you can get someone to employ you, you will need a work permit to work legally and these are not easy to get if a cypriot can do the job.



You would be better staying in the UK and working and coming out for holidays.



I guess this will not be what you want to hear but I am sure members will back me up on this one.



I am so sorry that you are loosing your children and I feel for you.

Good luck in the future

Sassy

stellasstar1



Joined: 02/07/2008
Posts: 1519

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 15:30

I have heard recently from a couple of other couples who are in a similar situation, that if you have joint custody of the children, then one partner cannot leave the country to live elsewhere without the consent of the other partner. Please don't quote me on that, but it's certainly getting the advice of a solicitor, before you think about moving, when you have no money.

Perry


Joined: 27/01/2007
Posts: 413

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 20:07

One option you may want to consider is moving to Southern Cyprus. If you are a UK citizen (?) you are free to work in EU member states (which, of course the south is). There are probably more opportunities in your sector as well - tourism is a lot more established. You could then at least be near your children and visit weekly - it is very easy to cross over via several cross points. Good luck.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 21:27

Yes please ..would definately follow advice about seeing a solicitor before she goes, could be abit awkward after she leaves .The solicitor may be able to get an injunction to stop her going .Failing that ,you would be definitely better going to the South as has been said because employment opportunities would be better there ..../..

yesplease


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:13

Thanks for all your honest advice ... i have researched my options as far as restriction of movements, unfortunately family law invariably comes down on the side of the mother..i believe that if i attempt to put a stop order on it then it will only jepordies our amicable relationship and then the children will suffer.

I have had plenty of advice from Families need Fathers an excellent organisation if anybody has issues with divorce or seperation, they advise to avoid lawyers at all costs....so we have managed to deal with everything maturally with the childrens best interests at heart for several years now...thats why she wanna move..she believes the kids will have a better quality of life there....and even though it makes life difficult for me i have to agree.

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:57

yesplease,



You should importantly verify that you have "parental responsibility" if you do not then you should request that your ex partner agree to granting this status.

If not then you should seek a "parental responsibility Order".



With this in place children cannot be removed from UK without your consent.

You should also get a contact order.

Most family cases start in Magistrates Court. You should try and get your case before County Court where fathers stand a better chance.



You are very right that Family law favours the Mother, but keep at it. Your children will pass judgment upon their parents

cyprusishome


Joined: 31/03/2007
Posts: 2381

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 00:31

Do not come here, you will not be able to support children and work.



Sorry to be so blunt but that is fact.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 00:54

In Cyprus, even if the mother has the custody of the children, they cannot be taken outside the country without the permission of their father. However the mother may apply to court for exemptiont and then it is up to the court to decide in the best interest of the children.



I agree with comments above that it is best to sort it out oustside the courts and keep it friendly in the best interests of the children. VEry difficult to get a work permit in TRNC but EU nationals can work in south Cyprus without the need for a permit. So this is your best option. I suggest you start saving now and do as much overtime as possible or a second job where appropriate before your move. You msut be able to support yourself for at least six months before you make such a move, otherwise it is full of risks.

ismet

yesplease


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 00:58

totally respect your comments..thankyou.

Have had PR from birth of both my children, mother has already stated that she would not move abroad without my acceptance..but have had a battle of conscience..i truelly believe that if the mother settles their quality of life will be so much better than we can possibly provide here.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 01:28

I assume by your comments there are no Children Act 1989 proceedings? If there are, and your ex obtained a Residence Order in her favour which actually states... no-one with PR can remove the children for a period in excess of 28 days without the permission of all parties who hold PR ie you, then your only remedy is to issue proceedings under section 8 CA89 for Prohibited Steps/Specific Issue to prevent their removal. However, by your comments, I can see that you want to give your children a better quality of life, and accept that maybe their life may be more fulfilled in TRNC. Maybe you have resigned yourself to the inevitable. It's a no win situation for you. If you are not content at their removal then I would suggest an application under section 8 CA89 as above, but it will be an uphill struggle and a fine balancing exercise for the Court to weigh up the best interests of the children. If you are content, then work in the Roc, at least you are just a drive away.

Regards.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 01:44

By the way as a Family Lawyer in the UK, I endorse "Families Need Fathers", and have read many of their publications which make excellent reading and provide invaluable advice. It is unfortunately that in the UK there is a conscientious of opinion that Mothers retain residence (custody). This is not deliberate, or "anti-Father". The Courts view both parents on a "level playing field", however normally, it is a fact that when a relationship breaks down, the primary carer is usually the Mother, and it is difficult for any Father to persuade the Court that the Residence or (home) of the child should be changed dramatically and overnight from the Mother to the Father. That said, I have known it done, but only in the most extreme of circumstances where a Mother is shown to be totally incapable of caring for the children by way of neglect, drugs, prostitution etc., "Familes Need Fathers" should not be confused with "Fathers for Justice" who have done their cause no end of damage IMHO.

yesplease


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 02:27

very interesting to read your views...your last paragraph has clearly shown us all the heart of the problem



"That said, I have known it done, but only in the most extreme of circumstances where a Mother is shown to be totally incapable of caring for the children by way of neglect, drugs, prostitution etc".



What hope have fathers and if it carries on much longer our societies got if fathers are not going to be given the permission to raise there own children untill the mother is so desperate and much of the damage is already done.



Please im not bitter or angry i have a fine relationship with my childrens mother, but there are many fathers out there that cant for many varied reasons maintain that same spirit of cooperation .. but that does not mean to say that in many cases they are not any less capable in raising healthy, rounded individuals from the children he created with the mother.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 03:00

Please do not misconstrue what I have said. The organisation who you have received advice from, Families for Fathers are extremely reputable and are well thought of in the legal field. The organisation, Fathers for Justice are not, because of their extreme and radical behaviour. They do not do any "justice" in their "cause" for Fathers IMO. I believe that there should be a total shake up of the law in respect of children and their rights to contact with both parents. So you are knocking at an open door there.



Not all Fathers, or indeed Mothers, are capable of the total commitment of childcare hence the extreme circumstances I outlined previously, and the drastic change of residence for the most obvious of reasons.



I have known many Fathers raise their children on their own very successfully, but I have to say they are in the minority.



Please don't be disillusioned - if I can be of any help - just ask.

Regards.

Kay

yesplease


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 03:09

Kay so good to read your knowledable words...what are your views on the debate about the reluctance of family lawyers to promote healthy and positive communication between parties.

Also i think a creation for an agency whos sole duty is to quide couples through a form of compulsary arbitration to attempt to build some structure of communication prior to the need of family lawyers being appointed, is long overdue and would make such a long term improvement in our way we deal with family issues.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 03:23

Hiya, I have always promoted (where appropriate) a form of collaborative law, which is somewhat of a new concept, but not for me and my practice. It does not always work, and very much depends upon the animosity between the parties. If their positions are too entrenched then it can be extremely difficult but not impossible. I have to say that I do come across the "old school" lawyers that litigate at every opportunity, in an attempt to score points. I have to say I find them very sad.



As for your agency idea. Good thinking, but not the current Mediation Service (twin set and pearls brigade) as this does not work in the majority of cases. They are far too removed from reality. Collaborative law is the way forward, and it is long overdue in my opinion.

Regards.

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 05:16

hi yesplease , welcome to the forum , albeit in very sad cicumstances , were you actually married to your childrens mother ?

good luck , simbas

simbas



Joined: 16/07/2007
Posts: 5943

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 05:21

hi w26kay , just a matter of interest really , does the information you give the same for both , for ex married spouses and unmarried partners , or is it different

many thanks , simbas

brian24001


Joined: 23/03/2008
Posts: 606

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 08:27

yesplease,

Kay's advice is very sound, and should be taken on board.

However, the most important post here is number 8.

You do not mention if you were married to the mother, if you were, you automatically have PR in law. If not, and the children were born before 2003, or after 2003 and you are not mentioned on the birth cert. you MUST obtain a PR order, which is a simple formality of filling in a form and submitting it to the County Court. It's a free service, and you do not need to go along in person. If the mother does not agree, then a simpe application to the court will sort it.

MUST be done if not married, as say the mother had an accident/killed, and the child was injured, you need to be able to permit treatment, take custody etc etc.

Some good info on the matter here:

http://www.advicenow.org.uk/living-together/children/parental-responsibility-qa-html,258,FP.html

Good luck with it, and as mentioned, work in the South and pop over, much better for you.

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 11:17

Hi Simbas, I don't think I could have put it any clearer than Brian's post (directly below this one) as to the differences in married or unmarried partners and their children.



Regards.

yesplease


Joined: 03/11/2008
Posts: 7

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 17:42

...we where never married, but i have had PR from birth of both my children, they stay overnight with me 2 nights weekly..and half of all school holidays.Kay..your views are very refreshing and hopefully in time a more natural balance can be found...when you ready to open your mediation service get in touch i would be more than happy to keep the office tidy : )

w26kay



Joined: 14/10/2007
Posts: 479

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 18:41

Will do, and good luck to you.

Regards

Kay.

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 18:57

hi yesplease so orry to hear your sad story. We are n the TRNC and run a restaurant/deli but it is vry difficult being a foreigner and working here you need work perits and all sorts of things and show you have money in he bank. I would take the advice and go south side as its open all year and the tourism there is far better than this side. Please contact Kay she is so lovely , knowlegable and very helpful. We have a similar situation with my daughter, fathe going for custody of my youngest grandson, she had to give him a months notice to allow them to come and see me. I do not know the law but im sure all the advice you have been given is correct. I only wish I could give you a job but south side with your experience you should have no trouble and the money is good along with the benefits of being in the EU. The very best of luck and as you get on with the mother talk it through. Lilli