Turkish Cypriots have little reason to trust our word By Loucas Charal

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:24

A LOT of time and energy has been spent by our politicians in discussing the issue of guarantees in the last couple of weeks. Not surprisingly, the debate – if we can call it that – has been marked by the customary populism, demagoguery and hollow rhetoric.



The exchanges were sparked by a constructive suggestion for getting round the unbridgeable difference with the other side over the guarantees, by DISY leader Nicos Anastassiades. He had suggested that the British, Greek and Turkish guarantees could be kept for a finite period after a settlement was agreed. In a throwback to the Papadopoulos presidency, he became the target of a rabid, concerted attack by the island’s demagogues, who branded his views “unacceptable”.



While the hysteria of the party leaders was to be expected, the reaction of President Christofias and his AKEL lieutenants was a bit more difficult to understand. Christofias, AKEL parliamentary spokesman Nicos Katsourides and party mouthpiece Haravghi all criticis

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:25

Much as we do not like it, the argument of the Turkish Cypriot side is pretty compelling. In 1960 we signed an agreement for the setting up of a partnership state. Just three years later we destroyed this state through our criminal stupidity. And the Turkish Cypriots are now asking: ‘Who will guarantee that you will not do the same this time?’



Under certain conditions, we could reply: ‘No, we will not do this again. We have become more sensible and mature; we have learned from our mistakes. You can trust us. After all, we are no longer ruled by Archbishop Makarios, the ‘invisible leader’ of the Akritas organisation (as was revealed recently by the organisation’s deputy chief of staff Christodoulos Christodoulou).’



We could argue this case if in the time that has passed since then we could have persuaded the Turkish Cypriots that we had drawn the right lessons, That the painful experiences caused by the mindless plan of the sixties and the bloodshed

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:26

so unnecessarily in the ensuing decade made us wiser and we could now be trusted.



Have we succeeded? How could we have succeed when to this day, Makarios’ plot to have the constitution changed – which is corroborated by a plethora of evidence and personal testimonies – is still referred to by official mythology as the “Turkish revolt”.



As we have failed so lamentably to persuade the Turkish Cypriots that we have changed, we will once again have to accept the guarantees, at least until we could prove in practice what Christofias has been maintaining – that we need no guarantees.



Copyright © Cyprus Mail 2008

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:28

Article By Loucas Charalambous

wynyardman



Joined: 15/12/2007
Posts: 4580

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:46

As usual a good posting. Very interesting. Needs thought!



wyn

Superscousers


Joined: 25/10/2008
Posts: 71

Message Posted:
03/11/2008 23:48

Aussie great article.

I was brought up to believe in the greek propoganda machine just like millions of UK citizens in th sixties and seventys . as I grew up and thirsted for more knowledge, I read a few books about cyprus and how the greek mainland troops under the auspices of makarious started to ethnic cleanse usedto be called GENOCIDE the turkish cypriots and there own greek cypriots if they did not tow the line. They also shot more british army personel (in there backs) than any turkish cypriot or turkish mainland troop. the article like it says can anyone trust anyone the answer is NO guarantees in the sixties meant nothing then and mean nothing now. that is why there are so many turkish troops in the north. Alas they have kept peace for the last 34 years and now the north is seing some kind of inward investment from other countries.

Regrds Ronaldo

WAZ-24-7



Joined: 18/10/2008
Posts: 695

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 02:02

Thank you for some very valid points on Cypriot History.

WesternEuropean politics in general is a lot more stable and unified.

The UN is omnipresent and the Europeam Union continues to gather stremgth and world influence.



he sothern Republic already benefit from being members of the Union.

The North will, i feel, follow in time as may Turkey.



The economic benefits will be prolific. There are clear incentives and indeed pressures from the Union for both sides to move forward.

Economic convergence first and closely followed by Political convergence.



The writting is on the wall. I hope that current negotiations can keep the ball rolling. If they fail then social, economic and political divergence will lead to misery for all.

lovingcyprus


Joined: 02/03/2007
Posts: 1272

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 11:23

Loucas Charalambous is a very good journalist, he has written many similar articles

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 12:33

Thank you Aussie for a most interesting and informative post.

We must all be looking forward to hearing from Pte Pike with regard to it's contents.

Aussie


Joined: 17/06/2007
Posts: 657

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 13:16

Overall the Cyprus Mail is pretty realistic in its appraisal of the post 1960 events in Cyprus (as is the Cyprus Dialogue including comments from ex ROC ministers etc). Having read it online for the last couple of years it generally has supported a honest view as the best way of supporting a settlement rather than glossing over the tragic events of the past as a way of bolstering your position.



Pike seems less keen to comment where ROC sources are involved especially when it clashes with his rosy view of pre 1974 intercommunity situation.





Aussie

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 13:44

Aussie: "Pike seems less keen to comment where ROC sources are involved especially when it clashes with his rosy view of pre 1974 intercommunity situation."



But I am more keen on speaking the truth than certain others, eh sport?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 14:19

when the british handed cyprus over to the cypriots all those years ago.

they didn't ever give cyprus the soveign base areas.

so i believe that it is still british soil . correct me if i am wrong.

why would they give it back ? i think it goes hand in hand with the quarentorship thing.

lets face all three haven't done a very good job up until now.



in an ideal world it would be nice to see cyprus with a small cypriot force but i don't believe that it will ever happen.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 14:41

Politics fire starter - Hong Kong was a crown colony and belonged to GB, unlike the New Territory which was leased from China. When the lease expired on NT we gave NT and HK back. Why? China would have taken it if we hadn't given it back. We gave back NT but we gave up HK. In Cyprus the same thing applies - the SBA's are not part of the Republic of Cyprus - never have been, so how could we "give them back"?

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 15:01

hi vaughan

from what i understood that the bases cover about a third of the island of cyprus, is that correct?

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 15:09

No... it's not correct.

fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 15:11

what sort of area do they cover?

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 16:48

fire starter: "...in an ideal world it would be nice to see cyprus with a small cypriot force but i don't believe that it will ever happen..."



It's the only way forward. If these guys were able to do it:





http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3144570.stm

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 16:53

Msg 16: "what sort of area do they cover?"



Answer below along with the interesting fact that although the SBAs are British territory, only 40% is actually owned by the Crown.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_Base_Areas

karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 18:15

Why should we have to pay rent for our bases after all we are protecting the cowardly Greeks from the evil dastardly Turks.

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 18:34

Thousands are still looking forward to a comment on original message Pte Pike.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 19:32

Suzanne



The reason Britain does not pay any "rent" for SBAs is because they don't trust the Greek Cypriots to share the money with the Turkish Cypriot community as it ought to do and they decided this in 1964 ... even then they could see that the GC side were not for sharing.....



No change there then...

PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 21:36

Breezyboy: "Thousands are still looking forward to a comment on original message Pte Pike."



Well, now's your big chance to blow everyone away with your own analysis of all the geo-political variables. Don't keep the group waiting.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
04/11/2008 22:09

Suzanne



"So why don`t they shop or holiday on the north to help there economy? if you have have ever been to the british bases you will see tcs & gcs working together always have done & always will do!"



Who are the they?



Yes I've been to the British bases... I see a load of Greek Cypriots eating in the restaurants there... not much evidence of the lovey dovey atmosphere you describe otherwise....

breezyboy


Joined: 14/05/2007
Posts: 1179

Message Posted:
06/11/2008 14:18

I asked first.

Everything I might say as already been said before.

I , like many others , enjoy reading your thoughts as they are an alternative to those of the masses. A balanced view is always worth noting.

Anyway how do you get the smiley face on here.