[ATATÜRK] Any advise about books about him?

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 08:22

I'd like to know and understand more about the life of Atatürk and his era.

Can anyone here advise a book(s) - preferably in English - not only the title but also why the book is worth reading?

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 08:34

Fenabache produced a very good vidio on the life of Ataturk we had it on the computer at one time, I will search my old hard drive and see if we still have it.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 09:01

I doubt there is one book that will truly describe the life of Ataturk and that era. It would probably fit in a 5000 page book! But many authors both foreign and Turkish have tried writing about parts of his life including some general chronology. There are many in bookshops here but you are more likely to find a bigger variety on a visit to Turkey.

I am not much of a nationalist, but have always found his life and experiences very intriguing, as well as most enjoyable, I could go on to say "a very exceptional leader" indeed

Kambylikid


Joined: 31/10/2009
Posts: 148

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 09:35

"Ataturk" by Andrew Mango. ISBN 0-7195-5612-0

"Ataturk: rebirth of a nation" by Lord Kinross

ianwfs


Joined: 08/01/2008
Posts: 563

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 10:36

I've read both of those, and by far I found Patrick Kinross's an easier read. Although Scottish, he was a a historian with a special interest in the Ottoman Empire. The book was written some years ago (he died in 1976), but it's still in print and considered one of the definite works about Ataturk.

Andrew Mango is also considered an expert. He was born in Istanbul, and moved to England about the age of 20. His book is a more recent publication, but I found it slightly heavy going (although still a good read)

There are also several books about the fall of the Ottoman Empire, which obviously cover that period of Ataturk's life.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 10:51

Hi Hans



'thirding' the Kinross biography..

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 11:20

Just had an offer via Skype to borrow Mango's work. I'll try to find Kinross' work also. Thanks for the replies!

Woodspeckie


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 2263

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 11:23

Lord Kinross book on Amazon for £10, if you want this book and have a problem getting it I can get it for you but I am only in NC in December.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 11:28

Thanks for your kind offer, Woodspeckie, I usually buy from such sites and have it sent to Holland. Friends/relatives then take it with them when they visit us.

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 12:26

Hans



Have you seen the dvd yet - I know it is only a film but it is worth a watch.

ianwfs


Joined: 08/01/2008
Posts: 563

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 12:48

What DVD??

metin


Joined: 08/09/2008
Posts: 1588

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 15:04

More info on dvd please.......would be interested in watching that.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 15:45

There are two films on DVD but both are very thin! That is because one cannot fit the whole life and achievements of Ataturk into a 2-3 or even 4 hour film. The only way would be a serial of, say 50 episodes...

Having said that, the better of the two "DVD"s is called "Dersimiz Atatürk" (our lesson, Ataturk) and is available at most DVD shops at 5 TL. It starts off with a teacher explaining the life of Atatürk to his students, and goes on from there... The other one is called "Mustafa" and might be worth a watch, but as I said both films are very thin.

The lack of a film of the life of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, is probably due to lack of a single book that would both tell the biography of this great man, and account for all his social and military actions. I feel the main reason for that has always been the fear of writing down the wrong thing or too much information - both of which could be addressed as treason or treachery!

tighmonadh


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
26/07/2011 19:24

Dear ianwfs



Perhaps I am being a bit sensitive but I fail to see why being Scottish has any relevance in the context of historians with an interest in the Ottoman Empire. Heaven forbid but perhaps you were expressing surprise at any scotsman being an historian ! If so may I respectfully point out the works of Thomas Carlyle and David Hume to name but two.



Lord Kinross by the way was the third Baron Kinross. He also wrote under the name of Patrick Balfour. There are three books in particular you might find interesting. These are "Europa Minor" and "Within the Taurus" - accounts of travel in Turkey - plus "The Orphaned Realm" his book on Cyprus.

ianwfs


Joined: 08/01/2008
Posts: 563

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 00:38

Msg 14. I declare an interest. I'm Scottish myself, so it was natural for me to say he was Scottish. I could as easily said British. (And I expect most people would have accepted English!!)

The point I was trying to make was that of the two authors, the one who wasn't Turkish had, in my opinion, written the better book.

tighmonadh


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 00:55

Msg 15



Still a little puzzled because neither of your two authors were Turkish. Andrew Mango was one of three sons born in Istanbul to an Anglo-Russian family. He is listed as British.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 00:59

How about comparing the content of the two books - let's try to do it in one post (± 1000 characters) or more if needed? This can be an interesting thread (for a change).

Who's first..?

Clarissa2


Joined: 12/06/2009
Posts: 1476

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 01:02

Re: Msg 14,



Ciamar a tha thu, Caimbeul !



Re: Msg 15,



Oidche mhath, Ian.

tighmonadh


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 09:08

Msg 18



I'm well Clarissa thanks but prefer my native Tongue.



Msg 17



I am sorry that you find the desire for accuracy a little boring but to me it is a matter of some importance. Take for example the term Greek Cypriot so frequently referred to in these forums. At best it is a meaningless phrase and would be improved by changing it to Greek Speaking Cypriot. Why ? Because, and as a student of Byzantine history you will know this, Greek became the Lingua Franca of the Eastern Roman Empire. At least the term Turkish Cypriot has some degree of accuracy since most Turkish Cypriots are descended from the post 1570 Turkish settlers. I say most because some will have non-Turkish origins whose forebears were proselytes; the "Lino Bambakoi" fit into this category.



I offer two more interesting books on Mustafa Kemal.



Grey Wolf by H C Armstrong



Kamal -Maker of Modern Turkey by Ikbal Ali Shah



Both books were published in the early thirties and offer a more contemporary pers

mrsgee


Joined: 23/06/2009
Posts: 396

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 10:22

Hubby swears by the Andrew Mango - Ataturk book. Took him a while to read as it is quite hefty, but he felt it was very worthwhile and informative. Hubby is not a great book reader, but did enjoy that one. We have a copy on our bookshelf but I have not ventured into it myself.....yet.

ianwfs


Joined: 08/01/2008
Posts: 563

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 11:23

Only slightly off topic. Another good read by Lord Kinross (Patrick Balfour) is "Ottoman Centuries: The Rise and Fall of the Turkish Empire (1977)". Again this is still in print (£7.45 from Amazon). A hint here, though. As you read it, prepare a mini family tree of the Sultans. I found it made the book a lot clearer. Obviously Ataturk is mentioned, sometimes as Mustafa Kemal, but because of the nature of the book, not a lot of space is spent on him.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 13:03

@ msg 19, tighmonadh: (...) I am sorry that you find the desire for accuracy a little boring but to me it is a matter of some importance. (...)



I wrote msg 17 and really don't understand why I deserve your words! Usually others find my deep desire for accuracy very boring...



I fully agree with your opinion about "Greek Cypriots" - on this board I have used "Greek speaking Cypriots" several times. Especially to be accurate ('just for the record') when C44 members were writing about "Greeks" in South Cyprus when clearly "Greek speaking Cypriots" were meant.



(...) At least the term Turkish Cypriot has some degree of accuracy (...).

I think that "Cypriot Turk" is more accurate. Since 1570/1, when the (Ottoman) Turks invaded and conquered the island, there have been (Ottoman) Cypriot Turks in Cyprus. Did they become Turkish Cypriots in 1878 (British rule)? Or in 1960?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 13:13

Why read about Ataturk? You will have better understanding of the CYprus Problem if you read Makarios Drousiotis books.

tighmonadh


Joined: 06/10/2010
Posts: 40

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 14:06

Msg 22



Dear Dutch Crusader



I think we are in agreement about the need for accuracy. I do not find it boring quite the opposite. I thought that when you said that a comparison of Kinross and Mango would be more interesting "for a change" you were finding my point to be uninteresting and therefore boring. I unreservedly apologise if I have inadvertently upset you.



Of course I agree with your point about "Cypriot Turk" being a relatively recent term.



It is interesting to look closely at those descended from the original settlers for although we call them Ottoman Turks many of them bear the characteristics of peoples conquered by the Ottomans.

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 16:25

My friend has a book about Atatürk (don't remember who it's by)and I'm pretty sure its in his Dipkarpaz house. I will check and also make sure, that he is happy to lend it to you. Will come back on this in a day or two

dippersgirl



Joined: 04/05/2010
Posts: 795

Message Posted:
27/07/2011 16:31

Presumably you have already checked the kindle books??