turkish cypriot with 2 names

japeal



Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 1052

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 10:22

Have a local male TC on our estate with 2 names, passport and Birth Certificate both different is this normal? Or is it illegal?

Vidal


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 867

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 10:42

Absolutely normal! Ask him why..he will explain it much better than me!

LittleQueenie


Joined: 20/04/2011
Posts: 107

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 10:52

Ditto, its normal although makes more sense when explained by someone other than me! LOL

Vidal


Joined: 14/05/2009
Posts: 867

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 11:02

Surnames were not used by Turkish Cypriots until after 1974. Before this period a Turkish Cypriot's second name indicated their fathers first name.



Now families have been given new surnames...hence birth certificate and passport in one name and Kimlik in another.



I think thats about it. Im sure one of the guys can give more info...where are ya Sal

JohnW


Joined: 23/04/2009
Posts: 601

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 11:05

I understand it works like this:



Pre TRNC days the Turkish Cypriots used the old naming system. You father's first name became your second name. So Mustafa Ali had a son who was say Ahmet Mustafa and his son say Ibrahim Ahmet and so on.



Denktash after '74 decided to change to the European system so they were obliged to chose a new surname/family name.



This was further complicated for those Turkish Cyprion born in the UK or other countries as they had their births registered there. Women of course might also acquire married names. If you were caught in the crossover it was made even more complicate. For example you could be born in the UK, birth registered in father's second name and then family made to change names when they came back here. Don't ask why they were obliged to chose a new name instead of keeping the current second name.



One Turkish Cypriot I know has been obliged to open a joint bank account with herself in two names.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 11:05

Msg.4 describes the absolute impossibility of carrying out any genealogy for a TC. I only managed to go back as far as my great grandfather just by asking my father before he died. I'm glad I did as my daughter wanted to know a bit about her background.

xaybee


Joined: 01/07/2011
Posts: 51

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:10

This is cyprus any thing is possible here

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:25

My situation is more complicated. Let me try.

1. My father's name was "Mustafa" and his father's name Kamil, thus he should normally be known as "Mustafa Kamil". So far not so good because his teacher at the primary school did not like his father's name and thus he gave him a brand new second name, "Vehbi". People had great respect for teachers in those days and accepted this practice as normal. So he was called "Mustafa Vehbi". That is not enough. My father liked his name very much and signed everything as "M. Vehbi" and in short people knew him as "Vehbi bey".



2. My name is "Ismet" and my father's name "Mustafa Vehbi", so by usual standards I should be called "Ismet Mustafa". What do you think? I was registered at school as "Ismet Vehbi" and all my documents including my ID card and the passport was "Ismet Vehbi".



3. Back in Cyprus in 1976 and I adopted the surname "Ustuner" as chosen jointly by my father and my uncle. Fair enough. I was proptly issued a "Surname Certificate" stating that I was "Ismet Mustafa" and now "Ismet Ustuner". it was a waste of time trying...

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:29

ctd.

to explain that I was never "Ismet Mustafa". Anyway, no problem so far on that score.



4. Greek Cypriots have a habbit which they copied from their previous colonial masters of changing the spelling of names, e.g. Cemal beame Djemal, Mustafa-Moustafa and now the latest "Ustuner" became "Oustuner". I am getting too old to bother with such nonsense, so I let them write what they like.

ismet

Fawkes


Joined: 18/07/2011
Posts: 86

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:37

they can not even name a child in a civilised and coherent way and they want to join the eu and be a recognised country!



Post edited for offensive remarks.

vonny


Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 476

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:40

i also have the two names as when they said you have to take the new surname in cyprus, we were in the uk,it was too much of a headache to have the name changed there as we were married,had kids,a mortgage, ect,so we kept the original name until we moved here,then we had to take the new surname, but in the uk,im still using the old name,sometimes i forget who i actually am though lol

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:41

Really fawkes, it is about history, no need to be so rude,

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:42

I had my UK passport and UK pensions changed to the new name without any fuss.

ismet

vonny


Joined: 25/06/2009
Posts: 476

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:43

ah,fawkes,it says your location is trnc,i sometimes wonder why you are here,cos you seem to dislike everything about the place.

brother



Joined: 29/01/2010
Posts: 446

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 14:50

Msg.10 presents quite an interesting perspective. A shame it didn't elaborate further to set the case for NC being described as such.

However, the naming practices are recognized by TCs as "that's how it was" and personally speaking, the new approach will produce benefits in many ways. Alas, at the same time the same new approach went as far as causing disagreements between families to the extent that some siblings ere "sent to Coventry" (!).

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 18:21

fawkes



you sound like someone ,be careful you don,t start posting jokes under your other name ;nn;



mr richard head .



musin



long live the kktc

Fawkes


Joined: 18/07/2011
Posts: 86

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 18:35

long live the kktc Bananas have a long shelf life so long live the banana republic .

kiwikid


Joined: 18/08/2008
Posts: 496

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 18:46

It is simular to the Irish using "O" as in O' Dea or the Scotts using Mc or Mac as in Mac Donald, for son of Dea or son of Donald. I think you will find this where the Van in a lot of Dutch Names comes from as well.

Cyprus just took a little longer to change over.

Didn't the English use your profession for your last names in some cases like smith as in Blacksmith, I maybe wrong on that one.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 19:09

Absolutely correct kiwikid, these are just a few



Archer A professional Archer

Bailey A bailiff

Carter A cart maker

Carver A sculptor

Chaplin A chaplain

Chandler A candle maker

Cooper A barrel maker

Day A dairy worker

Fletcher An arrow maker

Frobisher Polished armour and swords

Gardner A gardener

Hooper Fitted hoops on barrels

Kellogg A killer of hogs

Leach A doctor

Machin A stone worker

Naylor A nail maker

Proctor A steward

Redman A thatcher (reed man)

Sawyer A wood sawer

Trinder A wheel maker

Ward A watchman

kiwikid


Joined: 18/08/2008
Posts: 496

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 19:18

Thanks Pugwash I know there were a lot but had a mind blank the minute I tried to think of anymore.

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 19:39

Of course it is normal. I am the same. In UK I kept my original name. In Cyprus we were all forced to change our surnames. I don't object to the current surname system as per say except it was forced to Turkify the Turkish Cypriots. If we were allowed to keep our original family names, it would have been fine. We all had one most greek or Italian sounding. Names like Omeri, Ganari, Gashaoli Mustaka etc etc.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 19:50

I too have two surnames, my UK one and my TC one. Was a bit frustrating when the UK decided that my UK passport renewal had to be in my TC, despite every previous one being in my UK name, the name on my UK birth certificate and that links to every other piece of documentation relating to me in the UK. See this thread for more details



http://www.cyprus44.com/forums/60805.asp



msg 17,24,31,32,33,39 and 40

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 19:53

Msg 19, so where did Dickinson come from ?

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 20:07

Erol why did you tell them you had a TC name. What is it to do with them. I have no problems and have had the 2 names for decades. Although it came very useful when my X decided to look into my affairs in TRNC. Drew absolute blank.

japeal



Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 1052

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 21:07

Having different names must really be somewhat illegal, you could have bank accounts in different names etc as you have documentation showing different names. also could explain how a lot of the 'thieving' builders move on to another area and use diffent names.

hwilde


Joined: 16/09/2010
Posts: 230

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 21:36

japeal



You asked the question and you have had it clearly explained to you. The purpose was to have a family name which was not the case before. Unfortunately they are still in the changeover stage. In time it will settle down. Clearly, having two name creates opportunities for the dishonest but also creates difficulties for others. In the end the new system must be better than the old one.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 22:03

Yfred I had never had any problems before, so when asked 'do you have a kimlik card', I just said yes and that is when the problems started.



japeal I begged the British High Comission in the TRNC to give renew my passoprt in the name on my previous passport, that is on my biritish birth certificate and every other piece of identifaction relating to me in the UK, from exams results, to title deeds, to NI and tax records and NHS records and they refused and would only renew my British passport in a name I have never used in the UK and I only Knew existed 8 years ago when I came to live in the TRNC. All because it 'suited' their new borders agency computer system. So if its somewhat illegal to have two names, then the High Comission in UK forced me into using a new and unkown name in the UK against my personal wishes. Go figure

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 22:12

As you ask message 23



This interesting surname is a patronymic form of Dick, which is of Scottish and English origin, and is derived from the pet form of the personal name Richard. The personal name was originally known as "Ricehard", meaning "a hard ruler", derived from the Germanic "ric", power and "hard", hardy, brave, strong; the name was later developed into Ricard. The Normans spread the present forms of the name, Richard, after the Conquest of 1066. The name development since 1366 (see below) includes the following: John Dykonesson (1388, Yorkshire); Henry Dicason (1518, Yorkshire); Gilbert Dychenson (1585, Yorkshire); and Nicholas Dikersone (1598, Norfolk). The modern patronymics of the name include: Dickinson, Dickenson, Dickison, Dicke(-)son and Dickason.



http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/dickinson

Lilli



Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 13081

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 22:50

very interesting Pugwash. In Wales they put Ap before the surname , meaning son of for instance Jones. Surprising how many members have more than one name on here x Think you spotted one earlier x same culprit

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
30/07/2011 23:07

Yes indeed lilli

joandjelly


Joined: 24/02/2008
Posts: 2953

Message Posted:
31/07/2011 13:48

Do TC ladies adopt the surname (family name) of their husband when they marry?

denizen



Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 388

Message Posted:
31/07/2011 14:41

msg 25 ......you could have bank accounts in different names etc as ..........



you can open a bank account in UK in any name you choose, as long as you have "no intention to deceive" by doing so.

Agnes


Joined: 11/04/2009
Posts: 81

Message Posted:
31/07/2011 23:03

Well said denizen



you can call yourself whatever you like in the UK as long as you have "no intention to deceive"