any british person here could be sent to prison in the south

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
03/08/2011 22:36

so if gary robb has been sent by the uk government to the greek cypriot side,this can happen to anybody here living in what the greek cypriots call there homes.under eu law thay have the right to ask for this and britain have no choose but to send you to the greek cypriots.when there you will stand no chance.is britain letting you down,looks like thay are.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
03/08/2011 23:07

No way, this is a show trial of a convicted criminal they will not go after Joe public for these types of offences nor would they get European Arrest Warrants, nor will I say that they will attempt to do the same for any TC's too much dirty washing would come out.

0maintenance


Joined: 22/09/2010
Posts: 2179

Message Posted:
03/08/2011 23:23

Message 1



The land gary robb built on had a kochan with it when it was bought.



What does that mean to the people who have kochans at the moment?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
03/08/2011 23:27

Amanda (mess 3)



I would think it means nothing to anyone either with kochans or without!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
03/08/2011 23:28

thetruth this is nothing new at all. Any person, brit or not, that has used pre 74 GC land in the north can potentialy be prosecuted in the RoC for that use. This has been true since 1974. Since 2004 the potential to use the EAW system has potentialy been useable to bring such offenders to the RoC. There is a REASON why till now it has never happened and why now it is happening it is happening to a very 'aytpical' 'user' of pre 74 GC land in the north, who also faces a series of other charges and was easily 'obtained' via a EAW.



The RoC tried in the 80's to be able to prosecute people in the UK, merely for using a hotel in the North built on pre 74 GC land. They failed back then, but the laws still exist in the RoC and anyone, cypriot, brit or any other nationality that used such a hotel in the north could in theory face prosecution in the RoC. You have to ask yourself why none ever have.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 00:40

whatever the gc's try to do

by nobbling any brits, notorious or otherwise

will not get them back north cyprus



...does that answer your last question erolz?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 01:10

Dear Andre_514



>>whatever the gc's try to do



by nobbling any brits, notorious or otherwise



will not get them back north cyprus <<







Actually, IF Gary Robb is convicted of charges of illegally selling land that is STILL GC owned - having been arrested and brought to the 'rump' RoC it will send out a very clear msg.. it might be you, next.. CAVEAT EMPTOR..buyer beware..



Any deal re Cyprus will then need a concession from the 'rump' RoC re the criminality of dealing in was is STILL - not formerly ErolZ - GC owned property / land



The UK foreign and commonwealth office website still caries a warning re the risk of legal action by the RoC.



I don't see how making dealing in properties still owed by GCs criminal would make it any less likely that a settlement will ensue... can you explain ?



HOW the 'rump' RoC handle this case - esp. the defence offered by Gary Robb and any appeal ( if convicted) will have a huge bearing on the property market.



cont

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 01:16

ANY defence will bring up the IPC - now existing - as a local remedy - and MIGHT - if 'ignored' mean any conviction could be examined by the ECHR....



For sure the GCs intend to highlight that EU folk can be arrested outside Cyprus - within the EU// to make dealing in what is still their land / property a 'risk'..



ErolZ, I think the only reason folks don't get prosecuted for using Hotels that are still GC owned is that it might prove counter-productive to 'rump' RoC tourism....

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 01:28

mark,



I wouldn't dispute most of the points you make,

but you wisely didn't comment on "not getting back north cyprus"

the main point of my posting



however since about 2008 there seems to have been a seismic shift

in north cyprus' "british" property market:

it has mostly dried up due to mainly economic and credit factors



so now instead we see the russians beginning to nibble,

and they, enjoy visa-free status...and are unaffected by EAW stories

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 01:42

Dear Andre_514



>>you wisely didn't comment on "not getting back north cyprus"<<



??





I specifically responded by asking you, "I don't see how making dealing in properties still owed by GCs criminal would make it any less likely that a settlement will ensue... can you explain ? "



Wouldn't it be 'wiser' not to duck the question ? ;)





Oh and Yes, Hans / Clarissa2, I can spell carries ( mid way down msg 7 ) - I just can't edit my howlers..

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 02:06

all right all right mark,



I see what you mean and will defer in the admittedly "hypothetical" case of a settlement



...sorry



however I find it hard to picture a settlement that would not result in a boost for property

prices and security of deeds in north cyprus, isn't that why gc voters abandoned any u.n.

style compromises back in 2004?



I'm not sure all this loose talk of settlements is realistic nowadays, but instead of anyone

ever "agreeing" to separation I expect russia's pragmatic interests will get the ball rolling

one way or another eventually...



the world may or may not be a very fair place but turkey and russia are the two cypruses

regional powers



if the above doesn't clear up objections to my prediction the south will never ever get back

north cyprus, well it is rather late at night and so I shall say cheerio for now

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 02:15

The point I am trying to get across is that there is nothing new in the 'potential' use of RoC laws and EAW as a means of bring defendands to face them. The laws have existed from 74 onwards and the potential to use EAW from 2004. Yet the RoC has chosen not to use them, until now in the case of Gary Robb. For me it is clear that the RoC understands that problems in such use and that is why it has not used them. The potential use is a better weapon to them than the actual use. Actual use is fraught with risks that may remove potential risk ans is an unkown. Potential use or threat of it does not have these problems for the RoC. Gary Robbs case is 'ayptical' in so many regards compared with a mere 'buyer' or 'user' of pre 74 dispute title property in the North. I personaly do not see the Gary Robb case as indicative of a change from the ROC. THe same reasons that meant they did not use these potentials before still exist in my view and I do not forsee use of these laws and EAW [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 02:20

being used in anything other than the most aytpical cases, agsint 'mere' buyers or 'users' of such property in the North. I do think there are those who have an interest in creating fear that the Gary Robb case may lead to 'ordinary' buyers and users of pre 74 disputed title property in the North being persued in numbers by the RoC, even though they know themseleves this is a most unlikely senario in reality.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 03:50

Will he grass?

the members who helped him

or the "owners"



or if convicted in a EU country will the non-owners have a claim?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 07:12

philbailey, what owners, most never had title transferred, so never legal owners. Ask the banks who readily gave mortgages to the builders/landowners because even if the purchaser had paid in full, the kocan still had their name on.



Will he grass who he paid for his citizenship, now that would be interesting. We know all his colleagues, they are on the company documents, Pauline has published them all on NCFP several times, the one I really would like to see punished Akan Kurshit probably never will be. We know Unwins sold the lions share but then so do the RoC

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 07:26

What good will this RoC case against Gary Robb do ABAG victims?



That is unless the UK authorities unfreeze the money they have effectively confiscated from GR, if proven guilty, to compensate ABAG members.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 08:01

Turkey lost Cyprus for taking the wrong side in ww1, in other words she lost it due to an act of war. Did any Turk get his land back? Cyprus lost the North to what they call an act of war – where is the difference? Turkey should bring in a law that allows them to arrest anyone using Turkish owned land in the south that was given away illegally by the British or usurped by the GC’s. But of course there is one law for the EU members and another law for the Turks in their corrupt world.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 09:34

Troodo



your simplistic analysis 'forgets' that Turkey is having to settle up for loss of use / loss of properrty and it is gambling on the utter stupidity of GCs not piling in .



Greece's Military Junta and some Cypriots organised the coup - the 'difference' is that Turkey only had 'rights' to intervene..not stay.. hence the UN / ECHR rulings that you seem to forget.



So let's get this right..folk forced to flee to what became 'the south' - due to the TR 'intervention' - who can't go home would be ( under the Troodo law) pursued for living on land / homes owned by TCs?! :D



Don't you KNOW that the whole dilemma for many GCs who were displaced is that they can't get deeds for these places as they are on TC land.. they are in a time warp..



So much for your 'analysis' .. :(

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 09:37

6m do you really have to reply to troodo

he/she is a bigot who is worried about their own "land"

have you read their posts ?

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 09:59

And you are the fountain of wisdom philbaley? Bigoted?

Mm always falls back on dubious points of law instigated by the EU or the GC’s. You cannot have it both ways; either it was an intervention or an invasion.

As for why Turkey is still here, has there been a settlement or do the peace talks still continue?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:03

"dubious points of law"

are you serious

try the UN etc I stand by my opinion you are narrow minded

6m only quotes facts

what EU laws are you referring to ?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:11

mark message 18:



you correctly remind us, again, that gc "claimants" have failed to live up to their name

by failing to use the IPC en masse in what is now the last few months of its offer to compensate

...I am as baffled by it as you are



so this is pure guesswork:



firstly supportive documentation may have been lost or is not registered correctly



secondly, there is an idealistic view amongst many, that one day, by process yet to be

explained, all of cyprus will be restored to its pre-1974 constitutional situation, call it

denial if you will



thirdly amounts of money awarded by the IPC have actually been quite modest



fourthly, a main plank of "reunification" talks at least from cristophias' opening remarks

is what they call restitution, not compensation:

greek cypriots were comparitively well-off and had little need for extra money,

at least until the present eu credit crisis mysteriously blew up in their part of the island

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:24

Msg 21

try the UN etc.

Example – The Un article 501, I believe, though I may be wrong on the number, was so badly written that it has been grossly misinterpreted as a clear right of the roc to be the sole government of Cyprus. I will always oppose people who try to mislead others.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:30

Msg 23, I am sorry

in the eyes of the world / eu

who is the official government of Cyprus

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:37

msg 24.

Thank you, you are making my point for me.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:40

Msg 21.

Example – Turkey only signed the Customs Union agreement on the basis of a codicil added at the last gasp that they would not recognize the roc. Yes, they were fools to expect the EU to honor any such agreement.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:45

Andre_514

re msg 22



Why guess when you could ask ? ;) ..



The 'rump' RoC has a mechanism for TCs to claim their land / property... the govt maintains that this mechanism is the sole arbitrator of property that has been unusable by it's real owners in Cyprus



It has discouraged - rather pilloried- folk using the ECHR prescribed method... VERY unwise .. the 'rump' RoC can't pick and choose ECHR rulings and a better test would have been to ENCOURAGE GC claims..



*I* think this has been a HUGE error / disservice for the people of Cyprus who lost the use of their properties.. I'd like to have seen FAR more cases and we could have seen how many folk could return home.

TRNCVaughan


Joined: 27/04/2008
Posts: 4578

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:56

hi mmmmmmmm,



Under the Treaty, Turkey had a right to intervene, as you say. What you don't say is that the Treaty states:



"In so far as common or concerted action may not prove possible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of re-establishing the state of affairs created by the present Treaty."



Turkey took action...but, "the state of affairs created by the present Treaty." haven't been re-established, and, the way I see it, Turkey has a right to stay until it has.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 10:58

message 20:



mark and "dubious points of law" ...hardly!

he is well versed indeed in many aspects of law that apply to the so-called "cyprob"



but his difficulty is that the eu is nonetheless powerless to force turkey out of cyprus,

if anything the embrace is tightening as anticipated after the gc's voted "non" in '04



message 21:



my advice is don't rely on the un for tangible help for your greek cypriot cause:

because, despite various resolutions, the un has no credible plan to take sides



the line-up is something like this:



greek-cyprus is championed by mark 6xm, france and indeed many eu states



the trnc can draw on covert us support for nato-turkey

and both the annan plan and the 1960 power-sharing constitution saw the work

of the world body,



while putin's russia, glowering over continued international rejection

of two russian-protected trnc-style statelets and enjoying booming

trade with turkey, all rhetoric aside, will do its own thing

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 11:09

re 29 Andre_514



>>his difficulty is that the eu is nonetheless powerless to force turkey out of cyprus, <<



??



I have never held the view that the EU should could force Turkey's hand re the CY prob.. THAT was something many GCs hoped for - and I warned them that if they thought that EU membership would give them that result they would be sadly disappointed ..



This is a very bad habit of yours, Andre_514 - you presume to think you know how I think.. and 'label' me, accordingly... !







Only recently, we discussed Russia on here and I patiently explained that Russia seeks recognition of places like Abkhazia and has threatened to review it's policy re 'TRNC' to 'persuade' - a change of heart from UN members..



YES, Russia trades with Turkey and this is far more important that the trade with the 'rump' RoC - but as you know... there is this Orthodox Christian bond 'thing' and the UN Security Council resolutions re the status of Cyprus from 1974 and 'TRNC' from '83...

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 11:35

The 'rump' RoC has a mechanism for TCs to claim their land / property...



Mm. One TC has managed recently to get his property back in the roc, I am not sure that he is sitting on it yet. Not much of a record to be proud of I would say.



As for the Customs Union agreement, Turkey allows all EU member states to use their airports and ports accept the roc, which they do not recognize - and stated this in the codicil attached to the agreement.



And as for the EU and their impartial decisions, what about their promises to the TC’s who were prepared to give up their homes and livelihoods in 2004 - never again.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 11:39

msg31, should that be "except"

because accept

has a different meaning completely

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 11:44

Troodo



>>One TC has managed recently to get his property back in the roc, I am not sure that he is sitting on it yet. Not much of a record to be proud of I would say. <<



I can quote two cases I know of where folk I KNOW have helped their TC friends get their land / property back - that doesn't include more famous instances..



The 'rump' RoC had a law that made it necessary for folk claiming their rights to reside in the 'rump' RoC for six months - prior to acceptance of any application and a TC lady from Larnaca go the ECHR involved and the 'rump' RoC backed down on this STUPID condition ..Better to ask, rather than make incorrect statements, that might cloud your judgement.



cont

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 11:47

>>As for the Customs Union agreement, Turkey allows all EU member states to use their airports and ports accept the roc, which they do not recognize - and stated this in the codicil attached to the agreement. <<



I' 'sorry' but WHAT are you talking about ? TR has not got any abrogations re non acceptance of terms set in stone - the agreement applies to all member states.. and TR signed AFTER the RoCs accession.



Really, Troodo you need to check your sources.. TR is arguing that TC isolation should be ended in return of agreeing to the terms of something it has already agreed to ?!



There WAS some sort of verbal promise to help TCs but no 'codicil'

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 11:56

mm.



Then explain to me what it was that the British negotiated at the last minute that made Turkey agree to sign?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 12:24

Troodo



please find me this 'agreement' .. in the meantime



http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS22517.pdf



Page 3 onwards...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 12:35

Hi 'TRNC' Vaughan re 28





"In so far as common or concerted action may not prove possible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of re-establishing the state of affairs created by the present Treaty."



OK.. so how do you explain the support for the 'creation' of 'TRNC' .... ? You just shot yourself in the foot ;)

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 12:43

andre msg 9



please explain russians have visa free status,you are talking about north cyprus..

TopTen


Joined: 15/04/2009
Posts: 1246

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 12:55

We will just go to the European Court of Human Rights they are quite experienced in defending illegal immigrants, ask anyone in the UK

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:06

I cannot see that they will start arresting hundreds of Brits and Germans etc.



His circumstances were different.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:09

It is just scare tatics

with a test case

individuals will not be affected

estate agents a different matter



In my opinion

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:14

Mm. For years now I have continually supplied source material on this site, and many others, only to be told by clever people like you that they are lies and Turkish propaganda. Like the Turkish Prime minister said the other day, I have had enough and will not waste my time.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:16

Back on topic. Gary Robb is the perfect target because he is hated on both sides and they can make a circus out of his prosecution before they find him guilty. They will not seek out the ordinary expat and certainly not a TC. The only course for a solution is to recognize the TRNC, if only for twenty-four hours, so that two independent states can join in federation. The roc will not do this because it would legitimize TRNC law and be a barrier to stop them doing again what they did in 63. The TRNC now have the ECHR judgment that gives them a right to the property they have purchased under TRNC law, and December the 21st is fast approaching.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:18

Dear Troodo



That is an utter 'kop out' ... If I post 'crap' you can be sure that the likes of ErolZ, bigOz, Yfred, Yorg, and Elko2 would rightly take me apart..



ALL I asked for was a link to back up your contention..

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:23

So that you can pull it apart, no way. Anyone who followed the news broadcasts and television coverage at the time knows it went right to the line, until Britain came up with the compromise.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:28

6m do not waste your time

some people try to justify their guilt

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:29

Troodo



I suggest there is no such link .... as I hardly think you 'fear' a response on a forum... your contention was incorrect..



The UK was involved in persuading TR to sign and it hasn't 'delivered'



I expect you won't have bothered to read the link to the pdf as it doesn't help your 'case'

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:32

So obviously you did not watch the procedings at the time, pity.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:35

What guilt is this, philbaily? If any should feel guilty it is the GC's.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 13:55

Dear Troodo



Naturally, I followed the progress of TR's accession - as you know I support it's candidacy as a member... you are avoiding the issue... show us where to find this written codicil .. !

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 14:01

To be clear the Customs protocal that is being talked about was on 'extending' an already existing Customs protocal Turkey had with EU member states, to the newly entering states.



When Turkey signed this extension to the new states, that included the RoC, it also 'attached' a decleration stating that signing such did not consitute recognition of the RoC by Turkey.



http://www.etrc.org/news-press/details.php?id=279

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/4729909.stm

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 14:23

Thanks ErolZ..



so Troodo, did the EU agree to and countersign Turkey's 'declaration' ?



As ErolZ implies it was a meaningless gesture they DID sign a binding contract.... :(

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 14:32

The deal was, if Turkey signed the protocal, then its EU accession would start.



It signed it and the EU accession did start.



This is how politics is played. Turkey is trying to create linkage with it ratifying and implementing the protocal it signed, with the EU (commision) making good on its WRITTEN pledge to end the isolation of the TC community. The EU is trying to get Turkey to ratify and implement the protocal it signed regardless of it's own failure to make good on its own written comittments to the TC community.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 14:57

You really are priceless mm. No way would you admit that a declamation was made and know that someone has proved my point you deem it a useless gesture. It was not to Turkey, and they are standing by it - another example of the EU’s two faced attitude.



erolz.

I did not bother digging up proof because I knew what would be done with it.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 15:15

all international players are at their own game, and can interpret rules when and how they see fit

for example, "independent" kosovo is recognised by many states though lots do not,

a mainly moslem province was invaded by a foreign army, in order to protect the inhabitants (sic)



and a few words for mark 6xm:



for the record, I never thought you are blindly pro-gc, there are many instances where you point

out some of their limitations and you clashed with gc officials: so let's call it "tough love"



it is true you "explained" russia's recognition problems with its two breakaway states,

although in doing so you blithely assumed I knew nothing of the history prior



and the orthodox relationship, russia-cyprus?



it is a seductive cop-out to fall back on ties like this,

just as it is delusional for gc's to trust a friendly eu to "sort out" turkey for the greek cypriots,

so perhaps you could "explain" why nicosia's new cathedral looks more russian than cypriot?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 15:40

the truth message 38:



"...explain russians have visa free status..."



they must apply for an eu-style visa in order to visit the republic of "cyprus"



and also, if they arrived via an "unrecognised" entry point ie *ercan airport,

they would not be permitted to then cross into south cyprus from the north



with an roc visa they can fly direct to larnaca and then cross to the north:

busloads of russians travel on day trips to the apostolas andreas monastery



...whereas to travel to north cyprus in the first place allows them to catch a

cheap flight to istanbul and from there a shuttle to the trnc, no visa required



*ercan "occupied tymbou"



**larnaca "occupied turkish-cypriot land"

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 15:46

Troodo



a codicil refers to a will - the wishes of a dying person - after they've gone..



a contract is signed to seal an agreement - make terms - between two parties



I asked you for 'evidence' and ErolZ has demonstrated that there was no agreement - Turkey made a legally worthless 'declaration'.. it STILL agreed to let in RoC ship and planes..



Now, if it was OK to fly the flag and refer to the RoC when TR hosted the Eurovision song contest....

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 15:50

and of course eu passport-holders can move around the island freely since it

is a requirement of agreements between the eu and the republic of "cyprus"

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 16:18

mm. What school did you go to, Irish?

Codicil – addition, postscript, add on, supplement, appendix ……



Turkey made a legally worthless 'declaration'.. NOT TO THEM. it STILL agreed to let in RoC ship and planes..

NO IT DID NOT AND STILL DOSE NOT.

It is not possible for Turkey to allow a country that it does not recognizes into their airports or ports.

Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
Posts: 213

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:04

Troodo leave the Irish out of this, what have they done to rattle your cage,



Sundance

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:06

troodo message 59



line five "it is not possible..." but then of course almost anything is possible



slagging off one of the best-informed contributors, will not help the "cause"

any more than making token forays into long rambling threads about the "cyprob"

and its myriad propagandistic and wish-fulfillment alleyways



"oops!"

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:19

The dye is cast, no matter what your opinion is, right or wrong, the show wll go on, the farce will proceed and then we can all sit back and pick the bones out of it.



What a funny old place this TRNC has turned out to be. 'You Could Not Make It Up'

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:30

Many people here think britain wont send them to the south to stand trial.if i was to give details of a british person living here in a so called greek cypriot house,i bet thay would apply to britain for them to be sent to the south to stand trial.under eu law britain would send them,nobody wants to think this but it will happen.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:33

misunderstood,



my neighbours in england are mainly concerned with taxes, crime, lotto and the price of beer



please explain how they might be enabled to fake a passing interest in the gary robb "circus"

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:36

The truth is there are many agreements or contracts between the EU states that are not adhered to. Turkey is not unique in seeking to move its own interpretation.

For example freedom of Movement - the French chose last year to deport Romanian citizens, citizens of the EU. France has also chosen to ignore EU law that allows early retirees from other EU states to claim health care.Denmark has just reinstated border controls with Germany contrary to schengen.

There are thousands of examples of broken agreements.

I read something recently which said the Germans write the rules, the Brits obey them,the French break them and the Italians don't realise they exist.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:38

thetruth msg63, thousands of Brits and non Brits that are in breach of the RoC laws you are reffering to cross the border every day, yet the RoC has not arrested a single one of these people or prosecuted them to date. Yet you think they will use EAW to 'get' such people who are outside their jusrisdiction when they do not even arrest those in their own jurisdictions ?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 17:51

erolz message 66:



...everything should be seen in terms of their dream of "recovering" the north



to stir things to that degree could well rebound on them, reveal their impotence

and further increase cynicism about the way they dodged their way into the eu

in the first place



while grumbles about the EAW system are growing all the time



it seems to me that by trying to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut they'd find

they had hit their thumb instead



and I can only shout this from the treetops yet again,

...any and all of these greasy tactics will never render up north cyprus to them

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 18:08

The RoC is no more going to start sending out EAW for people who have used or bought property on disputed title in the North, than it is to start arresting GC in the south who have ever used a hotel in the north on disputed title, or anyone else who has either used or bought such property and crosses to or enters the RoC. It knows that actual use of this law in any such manner will almost certainly lead to the law being changed and that the threat of it is more useful a weapon than it actualy being used and challenged.

It is nonsense imo therefore to suggest as 'thetruth' does that a flood of EAW will soon be heading the way of Brits who have bought property on disputed title in the North. The very notion that the RoC would ask another EU state to hand over (100s) of people who it claims have broken this law, whilst it does nothing itself to arrest those who have broken the same law and are IN the RoC, is just absurdity beyond all reason to my mind.

Troodo


Joined: 12/06/2008
Posts: 1002

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 19:17

Msg 61.I think one of our best-informed contributors is a little selective with his information and has a way of twisting words that beggars belief. You only know that he is rattled when he starts slagging you off for misspelling or the wrong use of words, in this case he was wrong again. Sorry for going off thread, but this time I was not going to let him get away with it.

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 20:50

erols thay do not arrest people entering the south because thay have no information were the person is living.if you told the police were you lived and thay found out it was a greek cypriot house you owned,i think you would be arrested.remember the orams had to do what eu law told them to do and brittain did noting to help them.inmy opinion a total disgrace by brittain not helping there citizens..

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 21:42

thetruth, firstly the Orams was a civil case brought by a RoC indidvual and not a criminal one brought by the RoC. THere has been no similar case since. Why do you think that is thetruth ? As for them not knowing who owns what in the TRNC you are fooling yourself. Since the border opened they have been collecting information on who has bought and used disputed title property. I do own property that was built on land which is disputed title, my details are all publialy available and have been posted publicaly in many places. I cross to the South without let or hinderance. You may think 'if they knew' I would be arrested, but you are just plain wrong.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 21:42

Well, if they can get me from TRNC, I'll happily enjoy their hospitality - free food, health care, sat tv, et al. I look forward to the RoC police arriving at my door. UK inc have no care as to their responsibilities to their citizens here and so be it - reason we left the cess pit.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 22:18

Information is a wonderful thing, with hindsight I am sure most Aga Victims certainly would not have either purchased off Gary Robb, or purchased anything in the TRNC! there are a few who with black money would have purchased anything, anywhere, but many of his victims including me just had naivety as their only defence in 2003/4/5, anyone who decides to purchase any property in Cyprus as a whole in 2011 must be just plain daft! the lawyer who is defending the bank who wants to forclose on the K5 site also was a co- director of Aga, that Lawyers Father also took most of Gary Robbs victims money! knowing exactly who he was including his past history, as did Mark & Hayran Unwin!



The so called TRNC Government promised to help Aga victims time and time again! but continued to try to get Gary Robb to build, knowing he had no planning permission, knowing he had taken millions of pounds from his victims! knowing exactly who he was and exactly where he had come from! unlike cont.....

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 22:25

cont.....



the majority of their victims!



The TRNC Government have a lot to answer to, as do all Aga Directors, as do Unwins Estate Agency, as do all the so called Lawyers involved! each and everyone of them knew exactly what they did to innocent, and naive victims!



So no-one should fool themselves about the TRNC from the top to the bottom they knew exactly what they did!

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 22:38

re msg 59



Troodo



1/ >> it STILL agreed to let in RoC ship and planes.. << Considering they signed the agreement to allow ALL EU member states planes / ships free access - over five years ago - and not one ship has docked / one plane overflown - let alone landed.. this statement of yours is ......





2/ I went to school in N.Ireland unti I was twelve and in England, thereafter - indeed several of my family made / make living out of the legal profession - I'm quite sure codicil is specific as an addition in the context of wills.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 22:50

I can spell, I'm just too vain / stupid to realise I must use glasses

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 22:56

Msg 73, did you know he did not own the land?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 23:03

philbailey,



Now what would make you think that Mr Robb didn't own the land?

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
04/08/2011 23:08

Tomsteel dont kid yourself,have you ever been in or visited anyone in a police cell.i have and if you have come from the north thay are not friendly.human rights in the south no,only britain play by the rules.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
05/08/2011 14:44

Ref msg 79. Actually, yes and I visited a UK citizen, albeit a member of HM Forces, whilst serving in the RoC in 1997. Even with the slow progress of court cases there, EU laws protect the rights of EU citizens whilst in custody - be that in police custody, remand or actually serving a sentence. My point was does anyone actually imagine a RoC police presence coming to the TRNC to arrest any expat, of whatever nationality, for living in the property purchased legally from the powers ruling here? As I stated, if they have the balls to do it, I'll happily accept their hospitality.

Sundance


Joined: 15/07/2010
Posts: 213

Message Posted:
05/08/2011 15:08

Tomsteel msg80, Tom i would think my female dog has more balls than the powers to be in the south, But as long as they have got Robbs, they can still play the victim, the greeks cypriots will turn the court case into a circus, should we rename G Robbs to side show Bob,???



Sundance

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
05/08/2011 23:16

TOMSTEEL,NO THAY WILL NOT COME TO THE TRNC TO ARREST YOU THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID.THAY WILL ASK BRITAIN TO SEND YOU FROM THERE,IF YOU STAY HERE IN THE TRNC I SUPPOSE YOU WILL BE SAFE.I WOULD CAN NOT SEE ROBB GETTING ANY LAWYER ON HIS SIDE FROM THE SOUTH,THAY ALL ARE ACTING FOR THERE OWN COUNTRY FROM WHAT I HAVE FOUND.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
06/08/2011 09:11

Ref msg 81 - Sundance, your female dog is spot on. I guess the Robbs case will be a long ongoing saga, which will involve appeals, re-trials as his co-defendants are not subject to arrest etc. Oh to be a legal professional (sic) involved in this case - I could live the life of 'old Riley'.



Ref msg 82 - as I live full time in the TRNC, have minimal assets (small banking current account) in my home country and have no intent to visit it again, nor the RoC, I guess my national authorities will be hard pressed to 'arrest' me on behalf of any GC. I would also hope they have more important criminal investigations to concern themselves with than that of a civil housing spat between 2 small communities on an island.

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
06/08/2011 10:53

you should be ok then tomsteel...

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
06/08/2011 11:16

Ain't that "thetruth!"

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
06/08/2011 13:32

What's the betting that the Gary Robb Show will last as long as the turmoil in the whole of the RoC lasts.

What better way to unite the discontented than presenting them with a 'hate' figure.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/08/2011 22:10

message 86,



...yeah, bread and circuses (the bread we will have to owe you, sorry)

thetruth


Joined: 11/01/2009
Posts: 268

Message Posted:
07/08/2011 16:27

Who is the lawyer for robb,getting a greek lawyer to defend him in this case must be hard...

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
07/08/2011 17:11

I should think so, thetruth.. he probably needs a CYPRIOT one..

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
08/08/2011 08:02

Msg 89 - totally agree. I doubt the RoC Government/Bar Association will permit a foreign barrister to be involved. I think all who are involved in law in a country have to be registered there to do so. Ergo, why should Robb have a Greek to defend him?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
08/08/2011 08:45

Quite a thought really. A load of expats doing porridge in South Cyprus. The point is, can they afford us, having to adhere to all our Human Rights, being fed, watered and cared for by a country who hasn't got a pot to piss in. With the average age being OLD, just think of the medical bllls alone. Probably be far superior to any 'care home' in the U.K. It's a wonder there isn't a queue waiting to hand themselves in.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
11/08/2011 16:34

It will be a test case

yrys88


Joined: 08/08/2009
Posts: 1140

Message Posted:
11/08/2011 16:40

The rumour is:



GC's have a lot of agents working for them in NC government offices and they can get hold of any document they like for the right price including a copy of your kocans with your names on em! So beware.

tomsteel


Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 482

Message Posted:
11/08/2011 18:15

Ref msg 93 - and, so what! The chances of RoC police coming to the TRNC to arrest and convey us to prison are what??? As a pensioner, I would welcome the free health/dental/optical care, daily exercise, feeding, housing. Get real folks!

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
11/08/2011 18:25

As long as the "talks" continue

nothing will change

if they fail

a different story

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
11/08/2011 22:32

The website of the British High Commission in Nicosia contains information about purchasing property in Cyprus, including frequently asked questions, and information for people who are experiencing difficulties with a property purchase. On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence. This also applies to agreeing to sell, buy or rent a property without the owner’s permission. The maximum prison sentence is seven years. Furthermore, the amendment to the law states that any attempt to undertake such a transaction is a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence of up to five years.



(never been used as yet)

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
11/08/2011 22:38

http://ukincyprus.fco.gov.uk/en/help-for-british-nationals/living-in-cyprus/buying-property-cyprus/buying-property-in-north-cyprus

cyprusairsoft



Joined: 22/06/2009
Posts: 2066

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 14:24

have a job to send me from britain as i dont live there and have no intentions of going back



its all hogwash same old same old



gc are doomed

slatnumber7


Joined: 25/08/2010
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 16:54

If the RoC obtain a conviction against Robb for the various charges they have laid against him they will have 'case stated' and a presedent to pursue and prosecute others who have comitted similar crimes here in the TRNC.

In post 97 erolz kindly displays the link regarding the legislation referred to by philbailey.

In the last paragraph it speaks of this RoC legislation being non retrospective for transactions that took place prior to 20th October 2006. In the spirit of the law, all well and good, fair and proper but I would suggest the the RoC's interpretation will be that a transaction is completed when the purchaser holds the title deeds.

I believe this legislation was effected as a back stop by the RoC to use or not depending on the outcome of the Cyprus solution talks. If Robb is convicted the mechanics are in place. The whole affair of the RoC using the legislation at the moment is academic for folk in the TRNC but what of 'post solution' given International recognition statu

slatnumber7


Joined: 25/08/2010
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 17:07

Post 99 last line should read....... ' recognition status?

Mad-Taff


Joined: 18/02/2010
Posts: 36

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 17:11

What a lot of bull CRAP !!!!!!

slatnumber7


Joined: 25/08/2010
Posts: 299

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 18:19

Thank you for your reasoned and informative response, time will tell Mad-Taff! (Post 101)



I hope, probably like many others living here in the TRNC that I am wrong but every indication is that I won't be!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 18:48

In regards to the law referred to on the UK high comissions site and the use of European Arrest Warrants, it should be noted that the EAW requires 'double criminality', that is that the offence is an offence in both the issuing member state and the executing member state, except for a list of specific offenses. The RoC law mentioned is not a specific offense in the UK, or any other member state other than the RoC, and thus a EAW issued for this offense alone could be refused by an executing member state on this basis. One of the specifically listed offenses where 'double criminality' does not apply in regards to EAW is fraud, and this is one of the charges against Mr Robb. It is far from clear that if the only alledged offense is relating to the law descibed in on the UK high comission site, a EAW could be used sucsessfully.

[cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 18:53

Lack of "double criminality" is not a mandatory reason for an executing member state to refuse to execute a EAW, but it is a valid 'optional' reason to do so.



There is also another issue with the use of EAW in regards to the RoC law described in the UK high comission advise, as far as it is use on the basis of nationality. That is if it can be shown that the RoC is using this law to prosecuted certain nationalities and not others, like British citizens but not CYpriot citizens then it falls foul of the principals of the EAW system.



""Nothing in this Framework Decision may be interpreted as prohibiting refusal to surrender a person for whom a European arrest warrant has been issued when there are reasons to believe, on the basis of objective elements, that the said arrest warrant has been issued for the purpose of prosecuting or punishing a person on the grounds of his or her sex, race, religion, ethnic origin, nationality, language, political opinions or sexual orientation [cont]

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 18:54

or that that person's position may be prejudiced for any of these reasons."



Anyway the EAW framework document can be read in full here.



http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:32002F0584:EN:NOT

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 19:05

A fairly good overview of the EAW system can be found here for any interested.



http://www.inhouselawyer.co.uk/index.php/fraud-and-corporate-crime/6873-under-the-microscope-the-european-arrest-warrant

fraggle1961


Joined: 26/07/2010
Posts: 6

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 23:00

It has been interesting reading all the posts on this subject. I am just a tourist so don't feel I should comment on subjects I don't know about. What I like is the fact that all posters say what they think, and apart from the odd "go" at each other there doesn't seem to be any nastiness.

I have a reason for saying this. I inadvertently went onto another cyprus site. thinking it was this one, and I've never read such vitriol and swearing, ever! In fact, I posted a reply to a post and was called a racist(first time ever!) and banned for life.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 08:59

Well if Robb only faces a potential jail sentence of two years, all those who bought inadvertently will probably be put on probation. Pity I fancied a nice holiday in a RoC cell. Get all my medical conditions sorted f.o.c.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 12:12

It is only to set a test case

to show they can do it

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 02:06

So who is next ?

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 11:26

Well if KUlakszi win (big if) could it be them?