How far will Turkey go to stop the drilling

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/08/2011 10:42

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url= http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/08/08/cyprus-the-mouse-that-went-boom/&rct=j&sa=X&ei=huBATqCkCYnFswbOs_DKBw&ved=0CDEQ-AsoADAA&q=northern+cyprus+news&usg=AFQjCNFbqVL0QC6GGkxo6BHE1H8boSyBMQ



With the talks dead in the med and the Aegean.Will Greek Cyprus start to drill Oct 1st or will Turkey stop them,



Paul.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/08/2011 10:46

http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/08/08/cyprus-the-mouse-that-went-boom/

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/08/2011 15:11

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news/121334/trnc-trnc-fm-on-natural-gas-exploration-activities.html

helper


Joined: 16/01/2009
Posts: 235

Message Posted:
09/08/2011 17:09

Tensions Escalating Daily, major problems ahead are Deffo in the post

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 20:41

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/drilling-start-september-21/20110812



Drilling moved forward from October,



Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 21:29

@ Paul re msg 3 How CAN the 'rump' RoC's decision to allocate a licence to Noble be 'against international law' ?



I hear this 'argument' and wonder has the chap forgotten the de jure situation... ?



Would Turkey seriously send warships to stop a US company going about it's legit business ?

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 21:52

Get off your high horse 6ms........Yes they would. Watch

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 22:02

re msg 7 'Jetski'



The question was genuine - Frankly, I'll be VERY surprised if Turkey would risk an international confrontation with a US company as it will end up paying for consequential losses - if Turkey isn't 'happy' she can go to the UN - like Lebanon - to raise a dispute in the recognised legal manner





http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-04/lebanon-approves-border-demarcation-amid-dispute-with-israel.html

yorgozlu



Joined: 16/06/2009
Posts: 4437

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 22:27

mmmmmm;

Aren't you forgetting one basic fact?





'they' have a reputation to live up to!

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 22:45

you can speculate all you want ,the point is the greeks are pushing boundries,how far we will have to wait and see.



just don,t expect turkey too sit back and watch,there will defo be some sort of pay back.



everyone will then lose out and all thanks to our friends.





musin



long live the kktc

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
12/08/2011 23:34

Musin.. they aren't 'Greeks' they are CYPRIOTS - don't encourage 'em ;)



This is the sea, ( moreover its WAY south of Turkey) and the company is from the US .. there's the right way to go about this ( legal) and .. well, the way you might be suggesting...



Your 'friends' hold all the legal aces... Turkey has had plenty of time to file a legal claim on behalf of 'TRNC'



AJ reckons there isn't anything worth drilling for...

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 08:20

Since these are exploratory drillings, Turkey needs to do nothing until there is a positive or negative result. Plenty of time to line up the diplomatic pressures on Turkey's old NATO allies to suggest some kind of deasl.

It won't come to fisticuffs or even handbags at dawn !

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 09:29

it should be remembered that whether or not turkey "should" or "should not have"

intervened in cyprus, citing its guarantor status, greek cyprus has pushed turkey

into this situation



the blockade of north cyprus was basically the work of greek cyprus:

if this is not part-way to an act of war I don't know what is



whatever type of agreement could have been constructed,

as mark ems suggests it was only ever going to be along the lines of a 2004 compromise

...and that is not only off the table, but on a polar bear survey in spitzbergen



there is a lot that can be done short of bombing oil rigs, in terms of harassment

but I wouldn't be smug enough to predict developments in the area and for the powers

that be, scrapping over the syrian "bone" could finally make cyprus a strategic asset



the good ole' days of the us keeping nato greece and turkey apart in the aegean

are gone, and without any real consensus to admit turkey, the eu is largely irrelevant

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 10:27

I am afraid the Greek Cypriots will never learn that they are not a match for Turkey. Turkey will act at a convenient time i.e. they will not be in a hurry and Noble can go ahead with their exploration drilling but not the actual production.

ismet

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 11:51

Turkey just needs to remember it doesn't rule the world!

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 13:00

blade

But so does the ROC.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 13:11

Part if this post has been edited as against the rules.







The 'rump' RoC doesn't need to rule the world - it has enjoyed the support of the UN Security Council Resolutions..





re 13 andre_514 >>greek cyprus has pushed turkey into this situation << ..



Hmm, and the 'threat' of military action by the might of the Cypriot National Guard and it's air force kept Turkey there, I suppose ?



re 14 Elko2



>>Turkey will act at a convenient time i.e. they will not be in a hurry and Noble can go ahead with their exploration drilling but not the actual production. <<



Indeed, watching Turkey stop a US company from enjoying the benefits of any find - based on a legal contract, with a recognised govt. will be 'interesting '....

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 13:23

Its looking like the Greek Cypriots have had the nod from U.S.A.



Grey.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 13:24

Marky,

Don't forget that Turkey is one of the Guarantor Powers of Cyprus and that includes the interests of the Turkish Cypriot Community. Did the Greek Cypriots make any provisions for that? What percentage if any are they giving to the TCs?

ismet

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 13:24

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=us-backs-up-greek-cyprus-in-gas-drilling-row-2011-08-12

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 22:27

marky

please don,t tell me they are cypriots and not greeks ,they are greek cypriots ,i know what they are and you know what they are ,so why the bullshit .



once again you believe the turkish cypriots have no rights ,well like ismet abi says you may find turkey will be there to look after the intrest of the tc,s ,like it or not.



andre



i read your posts with intrest ,keep posting.



musin



long live the kktc

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
13/08/2011 23:34

"don't mess with the turks!" says a headline in a british newspaper today:

shopkeepers stood shoulder-to-shoulder in north london, defending their premises against looters

...interested parties who regularly pop up on this board should take note



yes, the rights and wrongs of the cyprus question are very difficult for outsiders:

we are either going to sound incredibly patronising or jump in feet first with our partisan views,

and usually without the "declaration of interest" required of true professionals



I'm not sure the exploration row allows any freedom of manoever for either side

while it would be daft in the extreme to place much value on vapid declarations

and paper committments from a distracted outside world either



having upped the ante, turkey now has to do something or lose face,

the gc administration fears turkey's might, notwithstanding the self-righteous bluster

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 04:03

re 19



Ismet,



I think you know that the RoC have the RIGHT to allocate drilling rights and if they tried to keep any viable production to themselves, then they'd lose the support/ protection of the EU / UN..



If it is Cypriot oil - that includes TCs - hope we are clear on that !



When the chips are down power has been shared both ways and it is FAR better to negotiate distribution of any future finds rather than sending in TR warships .

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 11:25

mark message 23:



forgive me, your posting was in reply to ismet,

but what exactly did you mean by the "support/proection of the eu/un"?

...be assured is a real question and I am neither trying to be critical by faint praise



we can see that the roc is favoured by full eu membership, a probable refinancing

by the eurozone, and is with france etc. etc., still blocking turkey's application



support from the un?

many resolutions requiring turkey to withdraw its troops, policing the green line

and the good offices implicit in failed 1959, 2004 and 2008 compromise proposals



but why are turkish forces still entenched here supporting/protecting mainlanders?

how did the orams' saga leave ex-pat property investors more secure than before?

is it true that, by failing to que, gc claimants' hopes will turn to dust in december?

...and who will prevent an infuriated nato turkey causing trouble over the gas rigs?



I think we should be told

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 12:04

message 23.... "If it is Cypriot oil - that includes TCs - hope we are clear on that !

When the chips are down power has been shared both ways and it is FAR better to negotiate distribution of any future finds rather than sending in TR warships"



Oh yes I'm sure everyone is clear on that........Of course the G/C's will share everything and anything with the T/c's. And of course they will be willing to "negotiate" distribution of oil proceeds with Turkey. How can anyone be naive enough to believe otherwise ?

TinLondon


Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 171

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 12:13

I wonder if Turkey / TRNC would be more willing to share, if the find was off the northern coast of Cyprus?



Msg23.... As for the power sharing, this was negotiated because the GC's would actually pay for the sold electricity, unlike the many hotels in the north that still owe millions to the power company in unpaid bills. The first multi-million TL payment was made yesterday.

TinLondon


Joined: 20/07/2009
Posts: 171

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 12:16

sorry, my final point was aimed at Msg25 not Msg23

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 12:25

Dear andre_514



As ever, I'm always happy to answer your questions .. These are my opinions - but based on precedent..



>>but what exactly did you mean by the "support/proection of the eu/un"? <<



Should TR try to physically, impede a legitimate RoC sanctioned Drilling operation on the high seas - in an area of ocean - designated to RoC for mineral rights exploration - as designated by the UN rules for such provisioning..



The EU already have asked TR to honour an agreement to allow free access of all ports / airspace to RoC ship / planes - as with ALL other EU members - TR hasn't - the EU is enforcing it's rule to ensure fairness to all members.



The UN still support a negotiated settlement and the current 'status quo' was negotiated by the UN - the UN maintain their stance on declarations on 'independence' .



As to WHY TR is still here... many TCs ask that, too



As patiently explained the Orams' case was a one-off.. we have the IPC route, for now..



(cont)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 12:31

Hopefully TR will prevent itself for acting illegally, and I'm quite sure she realises that EU members can ask for support from other - more powerful members - to intercede and prevent such a situation arising and if it did to ensure a return to the prescribed route - 'jaw jaw' - via the UN.



re msg 25



GeeJay



>>Of course the G/C's will share everything and anything with the T/c's. And of course they will be willing to "negotiate" distribution of oil proceeds with Turkey. How can anyone be naive enough to believe otherwise ?<<



How can anyone be naive enough to the 'rump' Roc would be allowed to keep all the revenues.. I'm sure an amount will have to be ring fenced as the RoC have never claimed not to represent TCs..



The UK withhold payments to the 'rump' RoC re the SBA - pending a settlement - I'm sure that an acceptable accounting methodology would have to be announced.



I'm of the opinion that a big find would focus minds on a negotiated settlement.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 13:13

TinLondon...Oil/gas revenue is very different from an electric grid where the power is contracted and paid for accordingly.

Since the TRNC is not recognised by UN/EC they don't have to "share" or "invest" proceeds in or with the northern area of the ROC. It's 'their' country. As far as the international community are concerned this will be an internal sovereign matter.

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 13:17

6xM...why on earth would the ROC negotiate with Turkey or the TRNC, except under extreme diplomatic pressure. They hate one and don't recognise the other.

"RoC have never claimed not to represent TCs." Of course they don't. They are the sovereign state and the T/C MEP places in the EC parliament are taken up by Greek Cypriots. They hold all the aces there and they do not have to 'invest' in the north.

No proceeds from any drilling find will be given to or used for the T/C community. To do so would undermine their own efforts to bring the TRNC to it's knees and take absolute control of the island.

They don't have to 'give' anything away.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 14:20

GeeJay



I'm not sure about the hate... certainly mistrust / misunderstand.. ask most GCs and they will say they have a problem with Turks being here.. not TCs..



>>RoC have never claimed not to represent TCs." Of course they don't. They are the sovereign state and the T/C MEP places in the EC parliament are taken up by Greek Cypriots. They hold all the aces there and they do not have to 'invest' in the north. <<



Geejay - the problem is that there IS no 'north', legally .. the current status quo prevents TC representation within the 'rump' RoC as there are not enough TC voters. Does this 'suck'.. yup.. but it doesn't mean that the RoC can use any wealth derived 'willy nilly' ..unless THEY admit that all bets are off re a settlement and then their legitimacy to claim to be the govt would be gone - and with it all mineral rights... The UN want to see 'action' and if there isn't any then naturally then can revise their stance on Cyprus.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 14:25

mark ems' answer noted but if I was a gc claimant,

I'd still ask what the eu/un did to restore my tribe in the cyprus "dispute"



it is worth distinguishing between the eu and the un:

the eu is viscerially hostile to turkey and because of this has vey little to offer:

I for one do not swallow the part-truth that turkey's withdrawl could admit it,

and turkey, by not being an eu "stakeholder" may cause problems in 2012 too



the eu is, anecdotally, in favour of a turkish role as "bouncer" on its east gate



regarding the un, it is a disparate mostly third world ensemble of states,

while the security council is unlikely to sanction a foolhardy military

adventure should a turkish ship accidentally bump into one of a rig's piers



yes, the un still supports a negociated settlement, but stated time and again

that (unlike earlier failiures) this time any agreement must be all-cypriot,

...and in my humble opinion such a third experiment is less likely every year

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 14:57

6xm's....I reiterate....the ROC is a sovereign state and as far as the UN/EU or anyone else is concerned can administrate it's own finances within the EU rules. These do not dictate how 'their' income is distributed. And it certainly won't be here.

Your defence of the Greek Cypriot mindset does you no favours. Legally or not the TRNC exists and like Kosovo or Taiwan should be recognised. No matter how you spin it G/C's should not represent T/c's politically.

Bye the bye. I've experienced the hate, having a TRNC registered car and received disgusting internet comments on other forums. Believe you me it is deep seated and frightening.

I even mentioned an occasion on a thread here when my wife and friend were terrified. You laughed it off saying it was probably because I had bought a G/C property. That shows where your misguided sympathy lies.

Even so I don't believe you should be banned. But don't you dare play the unbiased commentator with me.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 15:07

Has the ROC actually said it wouldn't share with the TRNC any gas or oil they might discover south of the Island?

The TRNC has said it would share with the ROC water from Turkey mainland and electricity from any Nuclear Power station.

Don't forget the TRNC is sharing electricity NOW with the ROC due to the ROC's huge shortage.



So, who is genuine when it comes to trust and sharing resources?? Gotta be the TRNC!!

Geoff

Famagusta City

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 17:11

Geoff,



The Greek Cypriots have just paid there first "leccy bill" to the Turk Cypriots.Surely you are not suggesting that the Tcs are sharing electric for free are you,



Grey.

Geoff


Joined: 25/06/2008
Posts: 1370

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 17:18

Re Msg 36: No, of course not. Why should it be free? BUT the point is the TRNC has helped them out at a very difficult time etc.

I saw somewhere this was arranged by the 2 Chambers of Commerce (GC and TC), rather than by the 2 Governments.

Geoff

Famagusta City

eyebob


Joined: 22/06/2010
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 19:14

Excuse my ignorance,but is Mmmmmm a politician working FULL-TIME on behalf of Greek Cypriots,as he does always seem to be the champion of their rights over and above anyone elses.Methinks he is on their payroll!!

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 20:14

"I'm not sure about the hate... certainly mistrust / misunderstand.. ask most GCs and they will say they have a problem with Turks being here.. not TCs.."



Many of my TC friends believe the Akritas plan is still alive and well and lurking beneath the chattering. 6ms..... could you explain what that was all about and how it would have worked?.... I know you'll be most informative as usual.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 20:14

eyebob,



mmmmmm doesn't ever declare his "interest" in the topics he posts on,

and will not discuss his exact motives (but neither do most members of 44)



I always imagined that pro-gc contibutors were paid one euro a shot but

this is likely my fantasy .......and nowadays roc (and trnc) coffers are bare



mark substitutes various eu and un declarations for the mundane "I feel that"

and I cannot judge the long-term importance of all this weighty paperwork,

except to say that I cannot see anything much changing and acceptance of

the trnc may take a very long time, perhaps 25 years more but who knows?



indirect evidence suggests mark is not so much pro-gc as anti-turkey-in-

cyprus, indeed he sometimes comments on the foolishness of gc activities



while mark has advised a lot of people on communications issues both

professionaly and altruistically, I am not entirely convinced he believes all

he says since the gc "position", blockade aside, grows weaker by the day

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 20:34

6M's......helloooooooo..... I asked a perfectly legitimate question......helloooooooooooooo!

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 20:50

Come on 6m's.....not bedtime yet....... Akritas...... explain please. Sure it's not beyond your (apparently) huge intellect. Helloooooooooooooo!

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 21:52

jetski,



I think you are doing what a lot of punters try on this 'board:

somehow get people to agree there is only one "point of view"



but hey! this is the middle east and such an idea is unrealistic



and whether or not mark has climbed into his jim-jams and is

now leafing through T4 or Stuff, confusion and disarray suits

his anti-turkey "agenda"



did I say agenda?



"oops"!

Jetski


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 584

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 22:39

Andre..... but wouldn't we just love to know his position on the 'Plan'?...... he's now poring over countless UN documents to justify it I'm sure. Either that or to everyone's relief he will just shut up. (If only)

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
14/08/2011 22:53

jetski,



take it from me, courtesy is the best strategy:

I've really "copped it" whenever I lost my cool



some of the hardest-hitting postings are from

two regular gents, erolz and ismet elko 2



...diamond geezers the both of them

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
15/08/2011 02:10

mark message 32:



you grandly remind us that greek cypriots have no problem with tc's being here, only with turks



a couple I know are mixed, she arrived yonks ago from mersin on the mainland, he is a tc:

I suggest in step with these principals, half their son is sent "back" to turkey but half can remain in cyprus



you have often touched on the stupidity of certain greek cypriot attitudes,

albeit your general tone suggests they are the standard bearers of european civilization on the island

and so you blithley swallow yet another of their favourite foibles,



that their "ownership", ok, their ownership, of property in the trnc, or "trnc" as you prefer,

is unaffected and never to be diluted by that troublesome fourth dimension... of time:

ask the the ancient britons, the million greeks from eastern thrace, and the legion of the dispossessed

from europe in the 20th century ...and they will "explain" it to you

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
15/08/2011 12:52

eyebob 38:



I have often wondered the same!



as in payroll, perhaps read as useful connections



perhaps we are "probing", again...



or maybe he just specialises in "lost causes"

john-f


Joined: 31/03/2011
Posts: 29

Message Posted:
15/08/2011 13:39

Turkey in the past has threatened to close us airbases on turkish soil, The US sees Turkey as a very strategic and important ally, now given these circumstances the US will as always act with self interest....

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 11:18

john-f,



cameron handing billions in uk tax money to corrupt or unfriendly regimes aside,

what entity doesn't act in its own interest...like the humble amoeba for example



there is a counter argument though, as in "we're all in this together"

except to ask who is saying it, and why?



but I am not totally cynical, only that it is sometimes revealing to look deeper at

who's lucky enough to be included in the common good take cyprus for example



oops!

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
16/08/2011 23:17

What about the drilling guys.Looks like the United States are going with the Greek Cypriots on this,watch this space,



Grey.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 18:53

I think the "dangers" to sleepy cyprus are vastly exaggerated



turkey having taken a stand on non-recognition of the ROC,

in diplomatic terms it cannot acquiece on gc drilling operations



for reasons that escape me, nobody seems to appreciate that

somewhere in ankara, cost/benefit calculations are being run

to see what can be done and what is worth being done



then again since there is only an armistice line not a border

(thank you mark!!!)

hostilities would be a continuation rather than anything "new"



I'm sure ankara will take care not to damage american ships

or at least limit to the bare minimum "collateral damage".....

like nato operations in libya, afghanistan, serbia, grenada etc

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 19:41

So do you think Turkey will just stand by and let drilling commence Andre,



Grey

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
17/08/2011 21:29

no and yes, grey

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 11:17

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=newssearch&cd=1&ved=0CCwQqQIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hurriyetdailynews.com%2Fn.php%3Fn%3Dn-cyprus-prepares-its-own-drilling-plan-2011-08-21&ei=7wlSTqyJMcqaOuC59IMH&usg=AFQjCNGhdjwMec-MmJhIHizPlJBqRQ-54A



"No and yes Andre".A definite no from me,



Grey.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 16:48

Well be very carefull what you wish for cos can you see the USA and EU standing by and letting Turkey throw their weight around?

I think not, Turkey just needs to remember its place in life and not get above its station.

Interesting times.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 18:23

turkey just needs to remember it,s place in life and not get above it,s station ;



and what do you think the usa will be doing then ,bomb turkey or maybe the eu will .



there is more then one way to skin a cat ,but of course you believe that the turks are not smart enough

keep them thoughts mr blade and watch .





musin



long live the kktc

russianbabe


Joined: 19/08/2011
Posts: 130

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 19:02

it will be an interesting show down between israel .the usa and turkey

at the end of the day turkey will back down .israel does not joke around

and they made that clear last time with turkey .it all about $$$$ and the americans

are not going to let it go for turkey to show whos the boss of the med.

MUSIN M


Joined: 26/06/2008
Posts: 1352

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:22

russianbabe



and what would you know about the politics of the turks ,isralies and the americans.



it,s all about the dollars something the americans have run out of ,come to think of it they don,t have many friends left also ,like i said more than one way to skin a cat ,wait and see shall we.



ps

what,s a 21 year old babe doing talking about politics,or maybe you are really a 65year old man.

where did you study your english ,was it russian school.



musin



long live the kktc

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:19

There's only one potential area of supply of gas/oil off Cyprus and that's between the Kapas and Syria. I've seen the geo reports!



Richard

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:54

Brinsley,



Has anyone passed on this info to the Greek Cypriots,



Paul.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 23:18

I hope I'm not wrong, but turkey is planning exercises so-called

but is unlikely to do more than a bit of flag waving, and jostling



it is deadly serious though:

as 2012 and an end of all re-unification hopes draws ever-closer

both sides are marking their territory like a pair of randy tomcats

...our side will want to establish a de-facto exclusion zone out

from the immediate shoreline of the trnc,

which is about 25% of cyprus' total economic zones I'd imagine



into THAT area the gc's will intrude only if they are feeling brave



but look on the bright side "russian babe of lefkosia"

...we might be swallowed up by a whale before things turn nasty

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:05

re 40 andre514



>>mmmmmm doesn't ever declare his "interest" in the topics he posts on, <<



'Thanks' andre_514 - but I'm QUITE capable of answering eyebob's msg 38



This is the second time in less than a month you have blithely put words in my mouth or alluded to some sort of 'agenda'.. Not really sure why you'd be doing this - especially as I made a VERY long explanation re my feelings to you re Cy prob - in the last month, which could have left you under NO illusion ..



So to eyebob re msg 38



>>is Mmmmmm a politician working FULL-TIME on behalf of Greek Cypriots<<



I wasn't aware that posting the 'de jure' situation made me a 'full-time' RoC employee, and andre's response in msg 47 is MOST ignorant - as he has had 'chapter and verse' - having made a similar comment last month..



The 'rump' RoC govt are hardly my best buddies - and andre514 knows this - so must be suffering 'selective memory loss' - you need to take a break, andre ;)

Brinsley


Joined: 04/04/2009
Posts: 6858

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:10

Paul

It was a privately paid for geo report which the TRNC/Turks weren't interested in!



Richard

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:10

re 39/41 the highly impatient Jetski



Why don't YOU tell us about the politicians in the rump 'RoC' admin who were 'in' on this plan and it's relevance to a Cyprus - in the EU 50 years on..?



BTW Andre, I'm more likely to know about what's going down in 'TRNC' than govt in the 'rump' RoC... ;) ..if you doubt that.. think TAX man and ( undeclared ) rental income .. and remember where you heard it first.. :(

Cyprusquest


Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 428

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 00:22

Blade 55 So what is Turkey's position?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 09:12

re 34 Geejay

>>6xm's....I reiterate....the ROC is a sovereign state and as far as the UN/EU or anyone else is concerned can administrate it's own finances within the EU rules. These do not dictate how 'their' income is distributed. And it certainly won't be here. <<



*You* forget that it's sovereign territory INCLUDES all of the island and it's citizens... hence it can't have it's cake and eat it... THAT is why The 'rump' RoC has to be seen to put aside any profits resulting form any gas / oil bonanza.. they ARE accountable for precisely the reasons you've given !

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 14:32

mark,



I think you are again over-reacting on the "issues" of agendas and probing



firstly, I am not aware that I ever said you had any agenda as such,

although anyone who spares the time to type postings on here must have

some reason to do so, even altruism would count as a motive I suppose



secondly, you have accused me of "probing" in the past to which I'd own up

to and am "guilty as charged"

however if arguing from an informed and professional platform as it were it

obviously carries greater weight from anyone if an interest is declared



finally although not accused here, I am not one of those calling for you to be

thrown off the board

...made to walk the plank is a different matter however, but care should be

taken it is a sea in a specified exclusive economic zone next to north cyprus

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 07:31

Andre514



I am NOT over-reacting.. 'allow' me to tell you how I feel !



You constantly allude to some sort of 'agenda' ( or then say.. "Mark won't tell you" ) and I quoted your agreeing with another poster who suggested I was in the employ of the RoC..



So - let's be clear.. andre514.. I'm 'over-reacting' to your constant repetitive 'contention's and suggest that the only 'agenda' is YOU.. to bait.... ;)



I'm SIMPLY passionate about the people of this island having a chance to sort out a workable deal.. a deal that ( may be ) certain folk don't want to see - as THEY think the 'status quo' suits THEM..



andre514 .. may be this time it will sink in.. and we can debate without this 'agenda' crap... ? Can you (finally) accept that I'm hardly speaking on behalf of a RoC govt.(s) that have put themselves before chances for their citizens for a lasting peace... ?

Glauben


Joined: 04/09/2011
Posts: 5

Message Posted:
22/09/2011 23:08

what an amazing subject, my opinion is that everyone gets a share of the cake apart from the cypriots living in the north.. it's all about what the united states of amiracle says... ;)

russianbabe


Joined: 19/08/2011
Posts: 130

Message Posted:
22/09/2011 23:17

message 29 mmmmmm

when was the last time britain paid for the use of the bases and what is the amount they pay?

the roc is claiming that no money is or was ever paid

interesting..........................................

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
22/09/2011 23:58

The Gc's have enough oil already.......they waste far to much on their salads and hair as it is.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 02:44

message 1:



there are already straws in the wind that turkey will drill in the waters off the trnc

after it has unilaterally set up its own no-go zone



to my mind this has always been the most likely outcome:

turkey can hardly not make a fuss but I still wonder about the logic of going to war

when it is more than likely the gc's and nobel would never dare drill off the trnc



message 66:



yes mark I know they have bits of paper but you can't argue with a six-inch shell



...and I take seriously your committment to the people of this island, which I would

assume includes turkish cypriots, greek cypriots ...and permanent foreign residents



message 70:



why would a "russian babe" bother her pretty little head with britain and its bases?

faithworks


Joined: 10/07/2009
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 03:19

why are most people on this forum biased! Turkey cant do F**k all ! That Turkey refuses to recognise ROC doesnt mean they are not the ONLY LEGALLY RECOGNISED authority in Cyprus.



Come on you all are forgetting the TC declared Independence! so what is the arguement here! i am entitiled to part of the oil even though i am no longer a part of ROC!



Common sense yall!!!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 05:15

faithworks it (your argument) works both ways.



The RoC can not both claim to be the sole legitimate government of all of Cyprus and of all Cypriots and then also deliver the benefits of Cypriot oil revenues to just one part of cyprus and excluded one ethnic group of cypriots. Is it not common sense that it has to one or other but not both ? Maybe the RoC will put in a 'bank account' part of any future oil profits, and its far from clear that there actualy are any such profits in my view, and hold them in trust for use by and for the TC community following a settlement. The problem is that some TC Cypriots, probably most, some parts of TC adminstration and some parts of Turkey just do not trust the RoC to do this equitably and fairly even if they claim they are going to do so. And not without reason in my personal view.

faithworks


Joined: 10/07/2009
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 05:47

Do u hear any TC living in the ROC making any noise about the exploration? its the ones in the illegally declared TRNC and Turkey making all the noise. The truth which everybody here knows is, if any TC moves to the ROC he/she would get dividends of oil.



TC politicians carry ROC passport ! if the TC in trnc will abandon the Trnc they would have the same rights a GC has in ROC as EU citizens. and can challenge any unfairness in



The annoying thing is ex pats who come on here and argue blindly, hoping things would escalate so as to favor the status qou. half of them would opt for a deal that would hurt the average TC in TRNC as long as thier properties are safe.



Iraq was the strongest country in the region some few years back save Isreal when the fault lines where exposed it crumbled. Turkey can only shout but wouldnt dare deploy war ships against the powers that be in world politics.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 06:24

Faithworks for me this forum is not really a place where these kind of discussions can sensibly be had to be blunt at least not if there is any objective or hope of you gaining a better understanding of my position as a (part) Cypriot and TC and me gaining better understanding of yours.



Whilst I do understand where you are comming from in message 75, as a (part) Cypriot and (part) TC I would suggest that things are not quite a simple as message 75 suggests, at least for the majority of the TC community and as evidence to support that this is the case I would point out the relative numbers of the TC community that choose to reside in the South vs those who chose to do so in the North. As to why that is again I do not think sensible useful discussion can actual be had in a forum like this one on that issue, but that is the reality of how things are today.



I can not and do not speak as or for 'expats' just to be clear.

InTheDogHouse



Joined: 15/11/2008
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 07:40

Surely the politics of who the unknown amount oil/gas belongs go is irrelevant. If there's enough of it to get the attention of other countries then the rights and wrongs won't make any difference.



You only have to think back to the gulf wars and the faulklands. Wars are fought over oil and gas and reasons can always be found/created. Maybe the US will say Cyprus is harbouring WMD's so they need to send in troops. I joke, but watch this space.....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 08:31

re 70



'russianbabe'



>>when was the last time britain paid for the use of the bases and what is the amount they pay?



the roc is claiming that no money is or was ever paid <<



I don't know.. this might help.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akrotiri_and_Dhekelia

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 13:43

Msg 75, very true

incesu


Joined: 15/06/2009
Posts: 79

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 13:51

What a popular topic......Not far at all...Drilling had started and will continue, no doubt about that. Turkey had received their instructions not to interfere. The question is "what are the Turkish Cypriot doing to claim their share?" from this possible fortune??

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 13:53

re 75 / 79



It should be pointed out that many TCs voted to end 'TRNC' in April 2004 - but sadly GCs 'sort of' voted to keep the RoC as a state whereby it's official govt can't control 39% of the territory.



Annan was NOT negotiated in good faith by 'Liealotopoulos' ( President Tassos Papadopoulos) and his team.. leaving the UN to join the dots... then claiming it was 'unfair'....



ALL Cypriots should enjoy some benefit irrespective of where they live.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 14:28

message 75:



"the annoying thing...expats (hope) things will escalate so as to favour the status qou"



this is a naiive and desperate conclusion which is belied by the facts:



firstly the euphoria on this forum in autumn '08 when to many it looked like the "talks"

could produce positive results



secondly a re-unification along the lines of the annan-propsals would cause a leap in

north cyprus property values, very much to the benefit of the average ex-pat punter



thirdly, wars often have dire consequences one of which could be the intensification

of the illegal isolations, war could serve the interests of turkey but is most unlikely to

help the british community at all



and what exactly is so "annoying" about the staus quo anyway?



I suppose your dream is the respectable hope of re-uniting the two parts of cyprus,

for reasons that appear attractive to you personally



but you must also accept that an average expat prefers security to a leap in the dark

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 14:46

The ROC ring fencing income from any finds re-gas/oil for Cypriot Turks is as laughable as their ring fencing of income/compensation derived from (mis)appropriating Cypriot Turkish land for major developments re schools/roads/airports etc. Oh by the way the amount of Cypriot Turks that have found that their original title deeds have been falsified to show GC ownership by the ROC land registry is now 39 and that is just former properties held in Paphos. And the number is growing by the week.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 14:59

re 83



AJ





Not wishing to dismiss your post out of hand - as the 'rump' RoC had to be taken to Court to stop the ridiculous " you must reside in the 'rump' RoC territory for six months before claiming", but what is your source for these falsifications?



I remember your posting something about a TC village in the Paphos area - has there been Court action ?



What is 'laughable' ( not) is that it took 'til 2009 for Turkey to take responsibility for it's forcing Cypriots from their homes and preventing their return.



If the 'rump' RoC has done these things it will be easy to prove and the ECHR criteria that the Land Registry records as of ' July '74 form the basis for proof of ownership would be gone..

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 15:45

message 84:



"it took...for turkey to take responsibility for forcing cypriots from their homes"



hang on, isn't that exactly what the activists of eoka "B" did from 1963 till 1974

when turkish cypriots were oblidged to live in un "safe areas" of 3% of cyprus?



forgive me, but you are making blanket statements again referring to highly

contentious issues, and just the one possible interpretation of historical events



so what is it THIS time? innocent observation or another example of agendas?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:01

re msg 85, andre514



'contentious' / 'agendas'



The ECHR set the 'bar' re Land Registry record as July 74... ? IF it turns out these can't be relied on, the 'rump' RoC will lose MEGA credibility .. do you think the ECHR have 'agendas', too ?!

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:13

Mark

Re message 84

If you are ever allowed into the TRNC again I will quite happily show you the evidence of my 'falsifications'. The original group approached the ROC direct and have been getting the runaround for some time now with promises of financial restitution which have come to nothing. So now they trying to find out others that may have the same problem so that they can form a larger united front. I can prove my statements now so now you prove what I am stating is untrue. I do not falsify or lie about anything.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:16

I argued that either you were making one of your famous "observations"

in the interests of I don't know what...



or more likely you post with a definite end in view:

perhaps educational, possibly to enlighten, or maybe to somehow induce

foreigners (like us....oops!) to stop interfering



on the other hand, and i have always acknowledged this, you are informed

on legal and regulartory conundrums many of which have had little bearing

on the status quo of the eternal cyprus "problem", including the ECHR

eyebob


Joined: 22/06/2010
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:19

Gee, this guy(6m`s) certainly gets around, a comment on everything, and this from a person who claims to have no agenda! Do you really believe everyone but you knows nothing.Gets rather boring reading you on virtually every thread.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:32

re 87



>>If you are ever allowed into the TRNC again<< )))



You keep posting stuff without basis in fact or any evidence to substantiate your contentions... Sadly, your record of objectivity is rather poor.



>>I do not falsify/ lie about anything<<



Isn't stopping the truth being seen / objecting to it being discussed - but not fibs - JUST as bad... ?



Now, I'm quite sure there has been some 'monkey' business re property rights on *Both* 'sides' - that done by Turkey now being acknowledged - hence it being their responsibility re the IPC - should a GC feel like ignoring advice from their politicians / media :(



IF the ECHR have been misled on a grand scale then the consequences for the RoC will be MASSIVE, devastating and rightly so...



I never hear you saying it was wrong for Cypriots who aren't TCs to have been forcibly removed from they hones and their return prevented..

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:36

from their homes and their return prevented...



OOOPS

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:47

Mark

I do not care about GCs, I only care about the people I am living amongst and what they continually are having to put up with when all they want to do is get on with their lives. Certainly they do not want re-unification because GCs and Cypriot Turks never ever lived together in harmony and I defy anyone to tell me otherwise. And guess what they will never ever live in harmony. I have been recording a lot of conversations that I have had with Cypriot Turks in coffee shops and although they are usually reticent in talking about the past ultimately you can get some interesting information from them. Once I have enough recordings to make it viable I will produce a cd or 2 that will be free to anyone that wants a copy.

AJ

gusanova


Joined: 23/11/2010
Posts: 187

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 16:57

Good for you AJ, this isa very interesting project you have done.



What do TC,s think about whats going on regarding the Housing issues, Fraud, etc

keithr


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 720

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 17:12

I'd love to fast forward and read the Wikileaks about all this,it would be just like reading The Cyprus Conspiracy without Makarios and with Exxon,Halliburton etc claiming "regime change" as their modus operandi. Swap communism for oil.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 17:39

AJ re 92 >>I do not care about GCs, I only care about the people I am living amongst and what they continually are having to put up with when all they want to do is get on with their lives.<<



Well, some of them [TCs] realise that the current 'twilight zone' situation can't continue and DO accept that forced 'resettlement' is not going to be 'rewarded'



In fact the vast majority did in April 2004 -to their credit - and they even voted to TRUST the EU / UN / GCs.. a crying shame that the GCs elected a hawk who fibbed to THEM..



It is hard to 'reason' with a bloke who thinks referring to 'TRNC' is an 'insult' - when that is the UN line..



TCs and GCs can and DO live in harmony.. and can be friends... NO-ONE is going to force the right of a GC to be able to live and work where he /she likes on the island, but you are kidding yourself if you think any agreed settlement isn't going to include a period of time whereby this would be possible.

faithworks


Joined: 10/07/2009
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 13:20

AJ re 92 >>I do not care about GCs, I only care about the people I am living amongst and what they continually are having to put up with when all they want to do is get on with their lives.<<



Please answer this. If the UN, Russia,China and US guarantee the rights of TC in a unified cyprus, but then TC have to give up all the land and property stolen from GC and they in turn get back what they lost.



Everybody gets his/her property back and all cypriots are happy. save the sizable number of peeps on one side who own large properties they didnt own before the split. according to law buing a stolen property doesnt grant ownership so am guessing lots of ex pats would loose thier savings, if all you care about is TC moving on with their lives will you support this.



TC should know for a fact that ROC is in the EU. their fear of what happened pre 54 can never happen again!

Tiggy


Joined: 25/07/2007
Posts: 1994

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 07:26

So GC land was stolen.....and TC land was lost!!



wait till the UN pull out, you will find NC is in the EU already.



That's all folks

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 17:22

Msg 96 Yorg has also stated the same before

the current situation benefits the ex-pats

more than the T/Cs