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Building Boom over?

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bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 22:34

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Message 1 of 29 in Discussion

Just read an article about the bottom falling out of the TRNC building market and how this is set to get even worse in 2009. It is evident that the construction industry, the government and advocates need to win back the trust of buyers if it is to survive. How should the TRNC start doing this and even if they did is it too late?



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 22:37

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Message 2 of 29 in Discussion

bradus, where did you read this article? Can you provide a link please.



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 22:49

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Message 3 of 29 in Discussion

Yes Bill,

It was in Cyprus Today, November 8th under the heading "Building sector faces agonising death in 2009"



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 22:51

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Message 4 of 29 in Discussion

Thanks Sue.



Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 22:53

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Message 5 of 29 in Discussion

It is clear that the bottom is falling out of the construction industry almost worldwide including the UK. The recession is also affecting the resale of completed holiday homes let alone yet to be completed off plan homes. The days of making a profit are long gone. The rise in the cost of flying to ones holiday home has also gone up and airlines going bust wont help. Longer flights such as to Cyprus will be even less attractive.

On top of this, the total lack of action by the NC (& South) governments to tackle the lack of regulation & corruption has poisoned the well for Cyprus. Their apparent unwillingness to act whilst blindly protecting their own & their citizens interests was short sighted incompetence for which they will rue the day. Whether they can put things right is debatable. First thing would be to introduce proper laws re property and scrap PTP altogether.



pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 22:55

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Message 6 of 29 in Discussion

Not until doubts are dispelled such as pre 74 non issue of deeds , leasehold rumours, ptp granting, and completion of existing stagnent developments can there the circumstances be conducive to a revival or new boom.



dixie normus


Joined: 22/02/2008
Posts: 820

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:05

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Message 7 of 29 in Discussion

Hi Bradus

I think the the cats out of the bag with regard to the treatment forigen buyers are receiving from this goverment, and drastic measures will have to be taken for them to be trusted in the future, laws need to be changed, and the present negotiations with the South for ex GC property has got to be another nail in the coffin. Uncertain times are ahead, Talat has nothing to take to the negotiation table, the TRNC is pennyless and the cash cow that could have pulled them out of the mire (property /construction) has been well and truely ripped to pieces.

I cant see this goverment doing anything to rectify the situation, a new head is needed with a new direction, new idea's and the the backbone to make changes and I dont see one on the horizon.



D.N



karakum5c



Joined: 18/03/2008
Posts: 1021

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:05

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Message 8 of 29 in Discussion

Its a world wide recession, when things improve in the USA everything will go back to normal.



No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:05

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Message 9 of 29 in Discussion

Can you ever see some of these stagnant developments ever being completed pilgrim?



I fear that if the two leaders do not reach a mutual agreement when the talks have concluded it will be the end for any further property development in the trnc.



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:29

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Message 10 of 29 in Discussion

Whats even more worrying is, if this slump affects properties started but not completed. If I was in the midst of buying I would certainly only be looking at completed projects or buying land and using stage payments to build. I hope those that have purchased and put large amounts of money upfront are pushing for completion. As for all those unfinished properties, that appear to be just blots on the land scape, no I think they will remain. If no one bothered to do anything with those put up during the 2004 boom, they are hardly likely to do anything now!

There are some really ugly ones, shell only, just pass the Altinkyia Hotel heading out to Bellapais road, on left hand side. They have been there that long that they must be ready to fall down soon. Anyone know the history behind this development?



ROBIN HOOD


Joined: 26/05/2008
Posts: 238

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:35

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Message 11 of 29 in Discussion

Call what they build there construction? Don't make me laugh. Give them a set of Lego with instructions and they'd make a mess of it. As for BOOM. I think it's a reasonable solution for the concrete skeletons. Can't make more of a mess of the countryside than at present.



brandy sour


Joined: 09/04/2008
Posts: 310

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:36

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Message 12 of 29 in Discussion

I agree with Karakum5c untill the USA get their act together we will be in a recession for the foreseeable future and a lot more people will loose their jobs in the mean time and it will be a bad Christmas for a lot of people in the UK.



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:43

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Message 13 of 29 in Discussion

hector: "On top of this, the total lack of action by the NC (& South) governments to tackle the lack of regulation & corruption has poisoned the well for Cyprus. Their apparent unwillingness to act whilst blindly protecting their own & their citizens interests was short sighted incompetence for which they will rue the day. Whether they can put things right is debatable. First thing would be to introduce proper laws re property and scrap PTP altogether."



I couldn't agree more.



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:52

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Message 14 of 29 in Discussion

I am not altogether sure that whats happening in the TRNC is entirely to do with the recession. I think it also has a lot to do with:

political uncertainty, poor legal protection, poor reputation, corruption, its non EU status and forums like this and others reaching a much wider audience and warning of the pitfalls.

I had a brilliant builder and I have no regrets and everything went very smoothly. I have to say though, it is frustrating waiting for PTP, Title deeds and knowing that you are pretty powerless in this area and have very little legal security or support.



pilgrim



Joined: 11/05/2007
Posts: 1404

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:57

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Message 15 of 29 in Discussion

Only when there is a hungry market and prices have risen accordingly, such that it is profitable again to be completed or demolished and redeveloped will these barren sites disappear.



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
11/11/2008 23:59

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Message 16 of 29 in Discussion

Or if there is reunification and money comes in to promote tourism? New promanades and infrastructure?



davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 00:01

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Message 17 of 29 in Discussion

Hi all,



This is a global recession and some will suffer more than others.



In these difficult times bad reputations do not help at all!!



You know what they say "news travels fast, but BAD news travels faster!"



BillyB


Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 436

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 00:08

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Message 18 of 29 in Discussion

The head of the construction union and the head of the estate agents union should resign due to there gross negligence of failing to keep there own sectors in order. Due to them having there fingers in many pies, greed has got the better of them, so they will carry on with blameing each other or the government for the down turn in the property sector.Maid Marion HBPG warned them of the problems years ago but all she got was empty promises. They dont give a sh#t they've made there money. If all heads of sectors acted responsibly then think how many more villas could have been sold in an already dwindling market - thousands!



bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 00:22

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Message 19 of 29 in Discussion

Cyprus Social and Economic Research Centre suggest that building firms need 500,000 to complete housing projects in the TRNC.(I would have thought it was much more than this)

They have also reported that 70% of builders have taken out loans worth about 258,912 each with 153 companies in the sector owing 39.6 million and that some builders, that borrowed to finance building projects, owed on average 10.663 in monthly interest payments alone.



SAFFI


Joined: 01/07/2008
Posts: 342

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 04:06

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Message 20 of 29 in Discussion

Hi

Friends just back from Paphos, the property market is on it,s knees there also .can,t sell vilas or appts for love nor money,

Makes you think no!!!!!



stevemac


Joined: 21/07/2008
Posts: 99

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 11:05

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Message 21 of 29 in Discussion

This is the link to the story

http://www.hbpg-trnc.net/documents/Press/CT081108_building.html



If you look at the headlines from CYprus Today 3 years ago since Marian started trying to get things changed, they are exactly the same as the headlines we see now. Nothing has been done. The government/estate agents/lawyers/contractors union/estate agents union are collectively responsible for the downturn in the construction sector and thus the economy. Will they accept responsibility and do the honourable thing? They are too shortsighted and need to make immediate and drastic changes.



People with mortgages on their land are now sitting on a ticking timebomnb. How did the banks expect the landowners taking out mortgages to pay 10,000 per month??? Are they mad?



Everyone should bombard the English and Turkish press with letters about this and embarass the government.



kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 11:24

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Message 22 of 29 in Discussion

Hi everybody,

of course the building boom is over.

A bit of bad reputation here, a few bad gossips there, bad public relation and at the end little financial crisis...

But: A lot of good reasons also must be added.

Houses (not only in TRNC and South Cyprus) had been sold with maximum profits for builders, estate agents and lawyers, and it did work well because a

lot of people thought they must be the first to get a share of the cake.

But times are changing. The customer wants more, they want to live in their homes, they want value for money.

It seeems that a lot of customers think that this is difficult to achieve. This applies for many countries, not only here.

Low low tech homes, quick, cheap and with doubtful workmanship build, sell bad everywhere, not only in N and S Cyprus.

Why? because they became too expensive to run, and this within only 2 or 3 years!

An architect designs only and only in accordance to the builder what he thinks is profitable, this will not work



kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 11:26

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Message 23 of 29 in Discussion

When you ask "somebody who should know",you get stuck with "non-knowledge" about "proper building technologies" in general

and regarding "the region the house is build",

no building laws regarding energy saving are existing, nobody controls the building phase...the list is long...

The result: Sometimes nice to look at for a couple of years, they are insufficient uninsulated. The new owner faces

astonishing costs for heating and cooling, these homes cannot be afforded any more.

On top you have to pay a fortune for infrastructure, fe as a genny to cover power cuts and huge water tanks..

Things which are included in europe.

Again: All this applies not only for Cyprus, also in Portugal you have power cuts and water shortages!!



kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 11:27

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Message 24 of 29 in Discussion

Recently I visited a house with 7! airconditioners installed! That there was no three phase electricity installed

(law: if you have 4 or more aircons than you need to have 3 phase electricity, which is much more expensive to be connected to)

It was just an example of a non implemented law.

The electricity bill was 1500 STG for august, and a 10.000 stg for the year.

Yes, electricity is expensive... more than in england, yes. but--why not? Stop use loads of it!

And other things are cheaper here,fe the property tax, county taxes....



kibsolar


Joined: 14/09/2008
Posts: 552

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 11:29

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Message 25 of 29 in Discussion

Result:

Each region in the world has its "optimised building strategy" reg quality, energy saving and living quality.

This, a government has to analise and they have to implement the necessary laws to protect

Not only the customer, also the builder will be protected from demands of doing everything "cheaper and cheaper and cheaper".





The architects must learn of how to design such houses and the building sector, of course, must learn how to build such houses.

The customer, the citizens, need to be educated what it means to build cheap.



The customer, to come back to the TRNC, must accept that a good build house you cannot get for 25% of the building cost

in england/europe (without costs for plot).



Thats it.



Sunny regards,



kibsolar



windmill


Joined: 06/07/2008
Posts: 143

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 11:50

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Message 26 of 29 in Discussion

Hector message 5,spot on

karakum,this is not just about the world recession as regards North Cyprus



davidoff


Joined: 21/04/2007
Posts: 438

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 12:45

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Message 27 of 29 in Discussion

Hi all,



The building boom has happened already and the money has been made!



The builders,estate agents, advocates and other companies have made their money already and lined their pockets very quickly.



If a settlement is made and most settlers even have to return back to turkey they are laughing as their bank accounts are full of readies and probably wouldnt mind returning to the main lands.



As for foreigners I cant help but feel that most have been used temporarily so NC could prosper financially and get into a better position for them ,turkey and the EU.



Unfortunately I hate to say this but if you think that any island negotiations will include a fair outcome for foreign investors and property owns then this will not happen they are only interested in the cypriots well being and every one else will be left to fend for themselves??



d x



PtePike



Joined: 20/05/2008
Posts: 2334

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 13:02

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Message 28 of 29 in Discussion

msg 27,



I agree foreigners who have bought "exchange" and probably mortgaged property have been royally screwed. What were they thinking of in the first place?



fire starter


Joined: 19/06/2008
Posts: 3401

Message Posted:
12/11/2008 14:10

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Message 29 of 29 in Discussion

how are they mortgaging exchange land?

my friend mortgaged his turkish title as he needed cash for his business.

the bank gave him sod all for 10 donum.



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