Very confused about Varosha

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 19:58

Hi all,



Is there any truth in the rumour that Varosha actually stands on Evkaf land from 1571.Is it true that there have been some dodgy dealings with deeds,in the past as well.Is it not Greek Cypriot land,



Paul.

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 20:54

If that's all you've got to be confused about Paul i wouldn't worry, most on here are confused full-stop )

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 20:55

Whoever it 'belongs' to - the fact of the matter is that: 'Might is Right!'

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 21:36

Is it Greek Cyp,Turk Cyp,Evkaf,nescafe,decaffe.Just thought someone on here may be able to help,



Paul.

rejela


Joined: 09/02/2011
Posts: 293

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:39

During my years in the North I have been told that most of Maras or Varosha belonged to the Evkaf, up until the end of the First World War. (Prior to this Britain had leased the Island from Turkey). However, when Germany and Turkey lost WW1 in 1918, Britain took the island as war bounty and stopped paying any monies to the Turks of the day. Cyprus became a British colony until independence in the early 60's.

During the colonial period, Varosha / Maras was given by the The British authorities to Greek Cypriots of the day, the reasons for this I do not know but I can only compare it to the way in which, after the Turkish intervention in 1974 land was given by the administration to Turkish Cypriots in the North. The similarity being that both events followed the end of war. So like the GC in the south who hold tittle deeds for land in the North, the Evkaf hold deeds for property in Verosha/ Maras. This would somewhat complicate matters but only if the property issues ever get resolved.

rejela


Joined: 09/02/2011
Posts: 293

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:42

cont.

I do not have a link to substantiate this information but would be interested to hear what other people can offer on the topic.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:52

Hi Rejela,



Thanks for the information,



Paul.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 22:58

As part of the 1960 agreements that led to Cypriot independance from British rule a sum was paid to Denktash as the representative of the TC community in Cyprus for evkaf land lost to the TC community under British rule. I think the sum was in the region of 5 million pounds sterling, though it might have been 2 I would have to double check.



I think the issue with varosha is that the papers that were found that alledgedly show it was evkaf owned were found after this agreement between the British and TC community was made (and after 74) and thus some claim it is not covered under the previous agreement for that reason as it was not know when the agreement was made. However the validity of the papers that show an evkaf claim and the claim that if they do show it , it was not covered under the pre 1960 deal are all far from clear.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
22/08/2011 23:12

Although the Greek Cypriots lived there pre-74.The land was leased to them by an Islamic charitable foundation.Varosha/Maras would have been returned to the Republic of Cyprus,as part of the Annan plan.But the plan was rejected by the Greek Cypriot voters,



Paul.

rejela


Joined: 09/02/2011
Posts: 293

Message Posted:
23/08/2011 22:31

Thank you erolz for your input, very interesting. I wonder how this issue will de dealt with, if it ever is. Really this should be resolved completely before any decision is made about returning Verosha. I could transpire that the Efkaf still has legal tittle! That would be even more difficult to resolve.

russianbabe


Joined: 19/08/2011
Posts: 130

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 08:26

more factual work needs to be done .british have everything documented

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 13:40

Paul,

If you go and have a look at the Roc land registry site it explains more about land registry history in Cyprus.



During the Ottoman empire all land was leased or rented. When the British rule came along they registered all the land with ownership. Hence they were the first to create the title deeds we know today.

Before that everyone was just a tenant.

Who claimed ownership back at what ever time in history makes little difference, the first deeds were issued by the Brits.

From what i understand Varosha's land & property is legally owned by anyone who had the title deeds in their name pre the 1974 conflict.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 21:16

Fascinating stuff blade.Is there any truth in the rumour that some of the deeds have been changed from Tc to Gc,



Paul.

Spike


Joined: 05/07/2011
Posts: 43

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 21:50

Blade said: "Who claimed ownership back at what ever time in history makes little difference, the first deeds were issued by the Brits. From what i understand Varosha's land & property is legally owned by anyone who had the title deeds in their name pre the 1974 conflict."



Correct. Maras or Varosia is mainly GC owned properties but some better off TCs and some foreigners, mainly British, have lost holiday apartments behind the wire. I think Turkey maybe did private deals to compensate the TCs and foreigners. All this EVKAF stuff is nonsense.

Paul, if any title deeds have been changed TC to GC its a criminal offence in the RoC. But it's OK for the TRNC to do it huh?

Turtle


Joined: 28/05/2007
Posts: 2669

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 21:56

It may be a criminal offence in the ROC Spike,.... but who is going to punish the ROC govenment ?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 09:15

Paul,

i have been to the Roc lands office and seen the old village books. Not for that area but for mine.

What i did conclude was that pre 1974 not that much property was actually registered. The plots were but many were without names. Hence that would leave a opportunity for someone less than honest to take advantage of that.

For my personal situ this wasn't much of a problem as my village is a well known TC village, with no GC ownership ever. But i can see that in other places things could not be so clear.



As for Turkey compensating people who own property in Varosha, i don't think they ever have?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 09:20

I know a British family that DID receive compo from TR for the loss of their property in the house.. it was used by the TR military.



It was on the north coast - not in Varosha/ Maras(h_

greylag


Joined: 08/04/2009
Posts: 1110

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 14:18

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/2011/11-08-24.tcpr.html#04





I know its probably been said before.But if it where to happen,it would certainly be a step in the right direction,



Grey.