Eroğlu and Christofias- Governance and Power sharing

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 22:33

http://www.brtk.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=32182:leaders-met-yesterday&catid=5:kktc&Itemid=28



President Derviş Eroğlu and the Greek Cypriot leader Demetris Christofias continued discussions yesterday on the chapter of Governance and Power sharing as intensive talks resumed after a two week summer break.

Yesterday’s meeting which was the fourth of a series of all day meetings to take place until October lasted a little over 5 hours.

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 22:34

Speaking to reporters after returning from the meeting, President Derviş Eroğlu said that the Cyprus Turkish Side had brought up the issue of oil and natural gas at the meeting.



Refraining from giving a detailed statement in line with the agreed principle of confidentiality in the talks, Eroğlu said that the Cyprus Turkish Side’s positions and views on the issue were already known in earlier statements made to the press......

No1Doyen


Joined: 04/07/2008
Posts: 16617

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 22:34

He also said that they agreed to hold a meeting on the 14th of September to make up for the postponed meeting on August 5th which had been cancelled at the request of the Greek Cypriot Side.



Meanwhile, the Special Representatives of the two leaders will be meeting this afternoon to continue the discussion on governance and power sharing. The two leaders will be meeting again on Friday to continue their discussions.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 22:50

Dont you think that the "refraining from giving a statement" tact.Is probably the reason why most people have lost interest in the talks.Nothing concrete ever seems to come from them.Or if it does i must have missed it.There has to be a time frame.October will be it in my view.Certainly if the Gcs decide to go ahead with the drilling,



Paul.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 23:37

drilling?



both sides have left themselves with precious little room for manoever

while america and russia have given the ROC sides words of assurance



unless turkey wants a war at this point, highly unlikely, all that will happen

is the drilling goes ahead, turkey kicks up a fuss, the ROC reinforces its

legal right to drill off all cyprus,

and its wise choice to drill only off its own territory



I suspect there will be a vast difference with any blocks adjacent to trnc:

there the ROC will be most ill-advised to try to expand the envelope



this, the "cyprus" eu presidency, and the posturing over its no compromise

position is more than enough to kill the talks, which could never really have

progressed anyway following the gc rejection of annan 2004



so turkey will go for recognition instead, or perhaps more likely first off, a

russian gas pumping station in the karpaz to serve "southstream 2"

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
24/08/2011 23:52

You seem to treat the "drilling" very lightly Andre.Unfortunateley i do not share your rampant optimism,



Paul.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 00:31

paul,



I think I did not explain myself clearly enough

it is hardly in the interest of turkey to sink platforms and I doubt they would want to do so



but there is a difference in where any exploration takes place



the first work is off the coast of south cyprus...

I cannot see the greek cypriots daring to drill off trnc coastal areas though there will be a

lot of huff and puff accompanying what will likely be a pragmatic accommodation in the end



if the gc's ever drill off the coast of the trnc they will be inviting trouble, turkey is nato's

second-largest military power and nobody is going to support bankrupt south cyprus with

anything more than re-assuring words, take it from me...they got themselves into this

situation after all



if you really see war coming and the northern forces losing, I would be very surprised

so in that sense I am optimistic

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 19:57

Andre,



Thanks for that.Looks like Southern Cyprus are looking for assurances from Israel as well.Turkey look to be on there own on this one.Step forward Britain,



Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 20:21

Paul, re msg 8



why would the UK 'mess' with international statutes on maritime mineral rights..?



It is a 'shame' that there isn't plans to explore waters off the north of what is ( under international law) RoC territory .. Andre514 thinks it would bring war.. I believe it would be the last thing that would happen and positively encourage 'jaw,jaw'.. ( in the end)

YFred


Joined: 06/05/2009
Posts: 1471

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 20:34

There will be no drilling outside of the 12 mile limit. Greece could not do it and nor will the RoC till they have an agreement not only with the TRNC but also with Turkey. Don't kid yourselves, people have gone to war for a lot less. Erdogans intentions regarding EU are not clear. The RoC would be mistaken to think that the EU will give it military or legal protection outside of the 12 mile limit. We live in very interesting times indeed.



No words from the meetings is a good sign. They have finally worked out how to have negotiations without playing silly buggers.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 20:49

Hi Mark,



The "evil demon" are always lurking my friend,



Paul.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 21:03

Here's a map for a better understanding of WHAT (drilling around October 1, 2011) is going to happen WHERE (Block 12):

▶ [ http://www.allcrusades.com/BB_pics/cyp_oil_and_gas_drilling_72.jpg ].

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 21:21

re msg 12 - Hans



'TRNC' does not exist ( 'de jure' ) as far as theserights are concerned



THIS is a map that anyone other than Turkey and some of you will be using...



http://neftegaz.ru/images/Neft%20Perey/Eastern-Mediterranean_Seismic-data_.jpg





based on this principle..







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_waters



The deal is even more 'complicated as an Israeli co has a 30% option on block 12 with Noble, the US co..



http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000676673



So TR would be attempting to interfere with the legal activities of a US and Israeli, company.

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 22:00

@ msg 13: Many members of this board live de facto in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The obsessive rantings about the TRNC of an annoying Northern Irishman, living in England, do not change that. Whether you like it or not. And the expats in TRNC know by now what you and your Greek speaking Cypriot friends would like to have in store for us.

It's no use to read or reply to your posts about this subject - the same old, same old. Yawn.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 22:13

Thanks for the maps Hans,



Paul.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 22:15

Hi Hans



it's that old 'catch 22'.. de facto v de jure.... whether we all like it or not...



>>the expats in TRNC know by now what you and your Greek speaking Cypriot friends would like to have in store for us. <<



Hopefully, those without blinkers will appreciate a dose of realism ( as opposed to fantasy) and my Turkish Cypriot friends should enjoy the bounty and I ( the UN/ EU et al ) will be no friend of any 'rump' RoC administration that tries to cheat 'em ...



Try and see that not recognising 'TRNC' is not anti -TC, per-say, Hans.... ;)

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 22:20

re msg 10 YFred



>>No words from the meetings is a good sign. They have finally worked out how to have negotiations without playing silly buggers.<<



At last.. !!

DutchCrusader



Joined: 19/05/2008
Posts: 11281

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 22:21

@ msg 16: It's no use to read or reply to your posts about this subject (TRNC) - the same old, same old. Yawn.

andy-f


Joined: 03/05/2009
Posts: 1256

Message Posted:
25/08/2011 22:52

q. if the the TRNC does not exist or is not recognised by all and sundry in the EU how come flights into ercan are shown and listed as " ercan" on the flight monitors at manchester airport ?



i saw ercan listed twice on one monitor while looking at our flight into larnaca.



andy

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 01:26

thanks to mark and to dc for two lots of maps as above



my intuition, for what it's worth, is that turkey really doesn't care that much

about the ROC operations in the southeastern blocks off cyprus, that's all show



yes they will make an almighty fuss, due to the total refusal of the ROC to

co-operate in this and the blockade, the air traffic impasse and blocked eu chapters



...and so, at the end of the day stavros will almost certainly get away with it



but heaven help the gc's if they try drilling off the coast of the trnc itself

...or "trnc" if you prefer mark



but I still cannot believe any of this will escalate into war since if the gc's

really provoke turkey by messing about in trnc eez waters

(or specially for mark: trnc non-eez "waters")



...they will be too busy buying 12-packs of underpants to have time to fight

LondonCypriot


Joined: 15/12/2008
Posts: 426

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 02:59

In real terms the island of Cyprus is divided by barb wire between the North and South of the Island. In real terms there does exist and border.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 08:59

re 19 andy-f



>>if the the TRNC does not exist or is not recognised by all and sundry in the EU how come flights into ercan are shown and listed as " ercan" on the flight monitors at manchester airport ? <<



This is all part of the 'fun' that is the current 'status quo' in Cyprus..If it 'existed' ( de jure) would have you fly via TR?!



If you saw 'ECN' on a monitor at Larnaca, you should have taken a photo ! The GCs call it Tymbou .. ECN is not listed as an official code by IATA / ICAO



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ercan_International_Airport



@ andre514, re 20



>>the total refusal of the ROC to

co-operate in this and the blockade, the air traffic impasse and blocked eu chapters <<



1/ I think you'll find the UN Sec Council resolutions re 'TRNC' needed a vote - not just the RoC !!

2/ I also think you'll find that it is Turkey's refusal to implement a Customs Agreement it signed - not the 'rump' RoC that has caused OTHER EU member states - to stall TR's EU accession pr

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 08:59

(cont)



2/ I also think you'll find that it is Turkey's refusal to implement a Customs Agreement it signed - not the 'rump' RoC that has caused OTHER EU member states - to stall TR's EU accession process

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
26/08/2011 18:36

mark message 22/23:



I think you used the same sort of legal arguments in very many earlier postings

and I do not want to take up space trying to question your role in "re-uniting" cyprus

from outside as it were



meanwhile turkey's position in north cyprus remains just as strong as ever,

the gc property clawback appears bound for failiure as the IPC closes its doors,

prospects for turkey being an eu member are generations away if it ever happens,

the ROC is bound for bailout-land and those talks you hype are set to disintegrate

as cyprus' separation is reinforced



what I was actually doing was trying to predict the outcome of the drilling dispute,

and that based on "my intuition", not so much trying to score vapid legal points