is israel as thick as can be?

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 14:35

israel must be crazy,all they have to do is apologise for murdering 9 unharmed turkish nationals on a peace mission.instead it decides not to.

it has now put the whole region,in which cyprus is in the middle of it ,in jeopardy.

talk about shoot yourself in the foot.

the people has to change the Israel goverment and fast.

already tit for tat has started,with strip searching turkish nationals at israel airports.

i fear this is going to escalate ,down to thick israel goverment.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 15:41

whatever else israel has been labelled before I have never before heard it called thick



for example, soon as turkey made it clear that the long-standing partnership was over,

due to turkey's very good reasons to improve relations with iran, syria, iraq etc, israel

quickly signed agreements with greek cyprus at long last giving it a voice inside the eu



as regards the regrettable incident over the marmara mari convoy, a leaked un report

actually refers to a number of faults on both sides both of activists and soldiers

any interpretatation of exactly what is a peace mission and what is a planned political

action is not as simple as it may seem ....especially in our sectarian middle east region



but I don't think the break with turkey serious or even dangerous as it may conceivably

become if things get to really "hot up" over drilling rights is necessarily permanent, just

that at present turkey has far bigger fish to fry

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 16:03

may I also point out generally that there seems to be quite a bit of fall-out

over greek cyprus'/noble energy gas drilling schemes:



technically speaking, it is the texan company that is in partnership with the

greek part of cyprus, although as the only other significant military power

in this region many on this forum are just guessing that israel would need

to "back up" noble energy if a confrontation develops with the turkish navy,

...but there is no evidence for such a thing really



I would agree 100% with mark 6xm that greek cyprus and noble have full

international legal agreements on their side to drill in these waters



whether it is wise or sensible to do this without recognising the trnc and/or

signing a demarcation agreement with turkey and/or its protege is another

question



the republic of (south) cyprus is again doing what international legal eagles

would term punching above its weight something it does to its ultimate cost

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 16:18

thick is a polite word,9 turkish unarmed men were killed on a peace mission,by israel special forces.

fair play to turkey,but libya is being taken over by Islam,following Egypt maybe Syria and other arab countrys.all the arab states are going to have new goverments who will not be as friendly to israel as the past lot.turkey has a fast growing economy,with trade links across middle east and europe.the last thing israel needs is bad problems with turkey,even the md of the bank of israel has heeded warnings.in the ground force invasion by israel ,hamas soldiers made big gains against israel.proving that the mighty israel can be beat.i am not anti israel ,but a change of goverment is needed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 16:36

michael,



I'm not sure the leaked un report describes the activists as unarmed if you include waving lead pipes



what any middle eastern people have learned to their cost is the real problem is not any lack of brain

cells but instead a display of weakness



...turkey has always taken a very tough line with its own insurgents as is well known



in all countries of the area, which of course includes divided cyprus, real or displayed strength is all



what is paricularly sad about the cyprus issue is that those who fear too be thought of as "weak" may

instead choose to be courageous and strong in order to achieve a lasting compromise agreement,

even if that also means a break with their past beliefs of total supremacy on the island

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 17:01

andre, we will go back to the original argument.

israel special forces attacked a peace convoy bringing food and medicine to a starving country,forced in a prison like state by israel and Egypt.

because of this, the eygptian people rose up against this illegality,and removed the status quo.

gaza is now free from oppression.

whatever way you look at it,israel was wrong to do that to a border country.

it is losing friends throughout the world,myself included.

it is becoming more and more isolated,the future is grim for israel people.

if israel apoligised for what it did to .............................unarmed..................peace activists,then i for one would praise israel for its guts to admit it was wrong.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 17:06

Keldanreb



"all they have to do is apologise for murdering 9 unharmed turkish nationals on a peace mission.instead it decides not to."



All the Mavi Maramara had to do was turn away and go to a neutral port as requested/directed by the Israeli security forces..........instead it decided not to. The rest is history.



It is called brinkmanship and the Israelis are past masters at it.



I am pretty confident that the whole thing will blow over in a couple of weeks.



Paul

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 18:45

I cannot but help feel with the present atmosphere of uncertainty in the arab world,

...in the *vacuum of real power in the east-med area, apart from regional big-boys

turkey and israel:



some members are simply seeing in all of this implications for little cyprus that just

don't apply .....and looking further and further afield than larnaca for some regional

"problems" to be sorted out



andre



*eg.,



libya "the last western intervention in the moslem world" ...says a uk expert



eu, ie sarkozey up to their necks in expanding eurozone crisis



syria, egypt, yemen etc good revolutions gone bad



turkey turns to other relationships, after brush-off by south cyprus and west



increased frustration of nato to find a meaningful role in out-of-area conflicts

after the collapse of the berlin wall and america's solvency problems

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 18:54

when local people in poland were caught throwing food over the fence in a concentration camp,they were shot dead.

what they should have done is to ignore the starving ,gone home and had a roast dinner.

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 19:00

message 6:



"gaza is free from oppression"



surely you are really talking about egypt's "unfinished" revolution?



as regards gaza, some would say it is hamas' control that is the

real issue, which is of course the entire reason for the blockade



how to treat with hamas, a reformed terror-group is mercifully

not a choice for readers of this forum



or perhaps you think israel or the east-med would enjoy greater

security if israel apologised for the interception?



some journalists point out the convoy was semi-official, which is

probably why the turkish government is justifiably outraged

newscoop


Joined: 23/12/2007
Posts: 2197

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 19:36

I've heard Israel called a lot of things but never 'thick'



Substitute the Mavi Marmara for a convoy to the 'enclaved' in the Karpaz sailing from Israel, and ask yourself how the Turks would have reacted.



This idea was actually mooted following the incident.

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 19:55

sorry seems to be the hardest word!

nicola


Joined: 06/09/2011
Posts: 246

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 20:11

Hello all.



Israel has a rude awakening coming very soon, they have thrown their weight around once too often and the region is a very much different place.

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 20:19

hello nicola. straight in,no messing about.your gonna be fun!

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 20:33

A very interesting topic. According to CCN Turk TV station, the Mavi Marmara ship had already changed course towards Egypt and the attack came twenty minutes afterwards. First time I heard this.



The legality of drilling in the south: according to Turkish politicians Turkey (and for that matter US) are not signatories to the latest convention which takes islands into account for allocating such rights. In the previous two conventions signed by Turkey islands had no such rights. So according to Turkish politicianbs the latest convention is not binding on Turkey and thus in the absence of any agreement in the region with all concerned none have the right to go alone. Any comments please?

ismet

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 20:34

Agree post 9 and 10 - they act like bullies because they know the USA thinks they can do no harm - you only have to look at how many congressmen and statesmen(sic) in the States, plus most of the media are Jewish to understand.

Zoony


Joined: 26/03/2010
Posts: 136

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 20:54

Message 16 do you really have to bring your racist comment into this ?

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 21:04

message 16,



unconsciously I imagine that the gc regime, mmmmmm, etc are legally correct

but that our side is sometimes morally in the right, or at least arguably:



..you have opened a new can of worms that at once puts in doubt our uncritial

acceptance of greek cyprus' legalistic arguments



and I will pay for a round of drinks at the "captain's cabin" bar in kyrenia if any

noble energy rig ever appears on that horizen



mavi mari:

the report you quote is looking much like the story of the argentine "belgrano"

rocking


Joined: 05/11/2008
Posts: 421

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 21:47

Message 17 I have the right think and say how I feel and that is how it is - thank you.

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 22:14

msg. 16 and 17,

Zoony,

I cannot really see how msg. 16 is a racist comment. It is simply a statement of facts as perceived. I don't know how true it is but once I read somewhere that the Jews make up 2% of the population in the States but have 10% representation in the Congress. They are certainly effective in Finance and the Media.

ismet

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 22:20

i dont think that this post has any racist overtones.

as soon as u pop off israel,up comes the race card.

russianbabe


Joined: 19/08/2011
Posts: 130

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 23:06

i hope there is no war ,both countrys are capable of making serious damages to each other

andre514


Joined: 05/10/2010
Posts: 763

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 00:43

r-babe,



...this is daft, turkey has nothing to gain by embarking on such an adventure



but in such a dispute, a sovereign state would feel obliged to make a "fuss"

parkview



Joined: 12/03/2009
Posts: 1123

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 08:46

Mssg 21, it is racist, as the post is about Israel, not Jews, or have I missed something.



There are Jews all over the world and not everyone of them agrees with what goes on politically in Israel, the issue is about the country surely!



If the same comments were made about Muslims you would say it was racist would you not!

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 10:14

parkview...msg16 states a fact,thats all.jews all over the world would protect israel any way they can.that does not make msg 16 a racist.if it does we might as well stop talking.

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 20:05

i posted this a week ago

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 20:06

it just goes to prove that... andre514... dont know a lot!

nicola


Joined: 06/09/2011
Posts: 246

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 20:07

Parkview the message is not racist at all, it is factual and true.

nicola


Joined: 06/09/2011
Posts: 246

Message Posted:
10/09/2011 20:19

Kelanreb I speak my mind all the time, no point pussy footing around Israel has been bullying the region for decades and I hate bullies, esp those that still scream of the wrongs that were done to them, they are the modern day nazis.

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 12:32

nicola..To say that Israel are the modern day nazis now confirms my opinion that you are somewhat light in the head...There is no comparison.The Israelis kill terrorists,Hitler killed innocent people even in his own country.Israel is not intent on world domination merely its own preservation,where as Adolf was intent on world domination. If a terrorist organisation was to take over the Isle of Wight and started lobbing rockets into Portsmouth and Bournemouth just because they felt like killing lots of people what would your reaction be? I know what my, and thousands of other peoples reaction would be. Terrorist the world over should be eliminated at whatever cost. Unfortunately the people of Gaza are responsible for their own situation and are not strong enough to get rid of them now,so the situation will continue as is....

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 12:53

what is a terrorist......

"the act of terrorizing,or state being terrorized;a mode of goverment by terror or intimidation"...........

does not say a lot for israel?

Geejay


Joined: 18/04/2009
Posts: 475

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 13:15

Israel is fast losing any friends it had in the region. First Turkey and now Egypt. It is rapidly becoming increasingly isolated and its only real ally is the USA and that looks shaky at times.

I used to support Israel's position but no more. It has proved to be a bully with no regard for non combatants or civilian lives. It will not ever apologise because that's a sign of weakness. Being now virtually surrounded by enemies supported only by the USA it will become even more belligerant.

Hopefully the USA will be able to restrain it's more excessive posturing to avoid a real conflict over drilling and aid conveys.

Cyprus has no part to play in this except to feebly protest as it does continuously. Turkey is the "new kid on the block" and is keen to flex it's muscles. I wonder how NATO is going to stand up under these strains. After all USA and Turkey are NATO allies. Neither Cyprus or Israel are.

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 13:21

Roachie could you please define the status of the bombers of the King David hotel in Jerusalem?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 13:47

Geejay,



as NATO demonstrated ( WITHOUT TR's 'help' - something the NTC in Libya won't forget !) Turkey has to 'keep up' re realities as to who is the new 'kid on the block' ;)

Coachie



Joined: 29/07/2008
Posts: 2135

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 16:54

Hipppppppooooo....Dont know !!!!

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 18:44

For you Roachie, they were Israelis, freedom fighter or terrorist?

Magbs


Joined: 26/02/2009
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 19:08

They were Jewish Palestinians (there were no Israelis these days) That was an act of terror agaist foreign administrative and military headquaters performed by quite a marginal group.

And you bring this event as a proof of what? Why don't you learn a bit about the cruelty of the Mandate administration toward both Arabs and Jews?

nicola


Joined: 06/09/2011
Posts: 246

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 19:30

Coachie are women, children and babies that the Israelies have killed TERRORISTS, get a grip for gods sake man. You do talk utter rubbish.

keldanreb


Joined: 17/09/2009
Posts: 212

Message Posted:
11/09/2011 19:52

geejay....your comment makes a load of sense.

i wonder why greece was the second biggest buyer of arms in the world 3 years ago?

no wonder they went skint!

donna84


Joined: 24/08/2010
Posts: 98

Message Posted:
12/09/2011 00:33

https://www.facebook.com/africa.to.gaza.aid.convoy

Hippo


Joined: 02/02/2007
Posts: 2070

Message Posted:
12/09/2011 08:41

Magbs-

The attack on the King David hotel was the worlds first example of modern terrorism as we know it today and was carried out by Irgun

"The King David Hotel explosion of July 22, 1946 (Palestine), which resulted in the deaths of 92 Britons, Arabs and Jews, and in the wounding of 58, was not just an act of “Jewish extremists,” but a premeditated massacre conducted by the Irgun in agreement with the highest Jewish political authorities in Palestine-- the Jewish Agency and its head David-Ben-Gurion."

So before you get your Kippar in a twist, the point I am making is that the first terrorists were Jews, if you visit the museum of navel and immigration in Haifa you may learn a little more, (although I guess you are already have a tunnel view point on it)

What the modern day Israelis are doing now is little more than mirroring the Nazis, wall around Bethlehem, in equal rights for Israeli Arabs etc.

America could solve the problem overnight 'Withdraw aid' until dialogue takes place

nicola


Joined: 06/09/2011
Posts: 246

Message Posted:
12/09/2011 10:02

Hippo well said.



A little knowledge is a dangerous thing Hippo and too many posters on here suffer from that disease,