Foreign buyers cannot get PTP on Turkish Title properties and land

blacksnake


Joined: 21/05/2010
Posts: 5

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 19:21

I've just been advised that foreign buyers cannot get permission to purchase on Turkish Title properties and land, I would suggest to those of you that have bought or are considering to buy a Turksih Title property to get this checked out....

Giles


Joined: 16/08/2011
Posts: 256

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 19:57

No S**T Sherlock!!

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 19:57

That's been the way of things for a while. However if you buy a TT resale and the deeds are already in a foreigner's name the deeds can be transferred.

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 20:00

No need to be sarcastic Giles.

blacksnake


Joined: 21/05/2010
Posts: 5

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 20:58

does this mean that my friend who has purchased at Thalassa will never be able to receive his title deeds in his name????

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 21:31

One can never say never but it's highly unlikely at the moment.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 21:34

It does I'm afraid. Leaves him in a position where he will have fully paid but the developer will be the legal owner.

Leaves him vulnerable to memorandums should the developer run into debt.

Deniz1


Joined: 28/07/2009
Posts: 3829

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 21:40

Re msg 3 If he cannot get his PTP surely he cannot take the deeds anyway regardless of who had them before.

Ballyboffin


Joined: 25/08/2007
Posts: 903

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 21:45

Apparantly Deniz1



If the deed is already in a foreigner's name and taxes are paid, the deeds will be transferred without the need for PTP.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 21:51

And after all the advice

people still buy and not rent

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 22:26

All foreign buyers need PTP. There are no exceptions.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 22:32

Has real life eventually entered Airy Fairy Land

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
06/09/2011 23:53

No PTP is granted on any Pre 74 Turkish Title no matter who holds the deeds - TC or foreigner.



Wishful thinking for those trying to sell, I think.



Wish it was true but sadly there is no evidence.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 00:15

Sometimes these days I feel like a parrot



Wish I had your knowledge and energy Bradus :-(



Ballyboffin (mess 9)



Where do you get your information from?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 00:25

Message 14,



from an honest estate agent

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 09:49

philbailey/Msg 15:



Perhaps that agent has been slightly, but only slightly, honestly DISHONEST!!!

ozankoymum


Joined: 10/01/2009
Posts: 359

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 10:33

I understand the principle that if you never recieve your PTP then legally the developer is still the owner and you can because victim of a memorandum..



But in the situation where you buy a Turkish Title property where the current owner is uk citizen with deeds in her name and taxes paid then this would not so risky as no builder has any claim on this property.



No RoC citizen has a claim on this property..



Where would the problem arise?

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 14:27

You are correct Ozankoymum. The builder will no longer be the legal owners however the current English owners will continue to be the legal owners, as you still can't exchange deeds without PTP..



At the end of the day, your risks would be reduced as it is unlikely (but not impossible )that the current British owner would run up any debt using the house as collateral.



you would still not be the legal owner and who really wants to buy a house that you will never own?

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 15:20

Bradus, in your own word you have no proof! ( been here before)



The only safe title to buy in the TRNC is Pre 74 Turkish title or expat owned pre 74.



I have a friend in the Interior Ministry who tells me there is no problem with ex pats buying this title. PTP is not being refused unless, you have a doubious character, you purchased too close to an army base, or your development has no planning permissions or has not been signed off, ect.

They are not just refusing it because you are a non TC.



I have asked those who say this to stand up and be counted, give me the link , show your proof, put this in writing, but you can't can you because there actually is none! Words are cheap.



My thoughts still are sour grapes because you didn't get your PTP you just want to ruin others property sales / purchase. Along with the property market in the TRNC. What gives you the right?

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 15:22

you are all talking rubbish.! here is a post from Blade in reply to TRNCvictim,Bradus and myself.



''TRNC victim, we are British and have our kochan for our Turkish title property. The poster asked a question please don't reply to them with untruths. You clearly know the goverment has never said or made such a rule as you are suggesting. It is nothing more than gossip.







Back years ago the TRNC goverment guaranteed the so called exchange/ esdger titles. Since the Orams case it has been made clear that that guarantee wasn't worth a thing.







The only safe title to buy is Turkish pre 74 or European pre 74. Re sale with deeds in the owners name. ''







See, you are all ''sprouting untruths!! ''Its nothing more than gossip'' ''The only safe title to buy is Turkish pre 74 ---''



Trying to sell your pre74 to some poor unsuspecting bloke ,were you Blade ?

DaveBoy


Joined: 02/08/2009
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 15:46

blade, please give examples of any ptp given for pre 74 turkish title deeds to anyone other than tc's in the last 2 years.



The TRNC government arent issuing them ...!



There are enough people who have suffered bad advice on here previously without you adding more...

You may have received title deeds on pre 74 turkish title years ago, but that is no longer the case..



I sympathis that you are trying to sell, but please do not mislead people with your misinformation.

blade


Joined: 19/06/2010
Posts: 1286

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 16:22

I firstly don't have to answer to nameless, email less people but i will.

Yes i do have my house for sale, yes i do have a legally guaranteed pre 74 Turkish title for it.



Yes i will and am able to guarantee that any buyer will get their PTP unless they are of dubious character.



You can carry on with your rubbish all you like, anyone with half a brain knows you are just talking bull.

You say 'thats no longer the case' so my friend in the I.M is a liar then? I think not.

Either put it in writing with your details or give it a rest. Would you like my address or my solicitors?



Cos those of us that do own a real legal title and had no problem with getting PTP on that title, are about sick of your gossip ,destroying the property market without proof. Just cos you messed up.



If you have proof then show us it, if not until that time that you can prove it , stop slandering Pre 74 Turkish title.

What gives you the right? Who is misleading who here?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 16:33

blade (mess 19)



"My thoughts are still sour grapes for not getting your PTP" you just want to ruin others property sales/purchase!



Bradus has given genuinely such good advice on this forum! why should she feel sour grapes?



Why would you want to tell people untruths?



Most sensible people wouldn't believe anything anyone in the Governments Interior Ministry, or any other Ministry inside the present TRNC Government says!



They lie through their back teeth! as I have found to my cost!



Far from ruining other people's property/sales purchase Bradus along with others are trying to stop them ruining their lives!



I wish someone like Bradus had been around in 2003!



Your words are cheap blade!

Agobard


Joined: 20/08/2008
Posts: 271

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 17:15

I was talking recently to my (very good) lawyer and asked him the question about PTP for Turkish Title property. Only an academic question as I have no intention of selling mine but he told me that there is no problem about the transfer of Turkish Title deeds IF the current owner is already a foreigner. The problems that are arising appear to be when the current buyer is the first foreigner to try and get PTP.

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 17:36

My estate agent warned me not to buy pre-'74 Turkish title without going first to the South to check that the Land Register still showed the TC as the legal owner.

She said that between 1964 and 1974, when the TCs were disenfranchised and evicted from their properties, TC property and land was fraudulently transferred to GC ownership based on falsified sales contracts. Thus GCs now have 'legal' kochans for these properties but the TC of course would not be aware. This seems perfectly feasible to me because during these years the GCs believed that the TCs had gone forever. The TCs were cramped into just 3% of the island and had no access to government, courts, police nor any participation in Cyprus life.

Please note that I only repeat what I was told and cannot prove these allegations - but it did seem to be good advice.

girne 29


Joined: 06/12/2007
Posts: 1488

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 18:19

Blade



You have every right to try and sell your property and guarantee that the buyer will get title. What you have no right to do is tell any newbie looking on here that there is no problem with pre74.



You could have said ''I had no problem when I first bought years ago and as I am British anyone buying from me will have no problem.

A far cry from telling everybody that there is no problem with anyone buying today .

Patar city has apts for sale both pre74 and exchange , so far only the exchange have 'deeds available' written in the advert.



Bradus has for years been giving valuable information that has helped lots of people,and if you think she is talking rubbish,instead of the insults ,just supply us with the details of anyone who has a new build on pre 74

land in last couple of years that has got title . As for destroying the property market .. If honesty from people like Bradus and TRNCvictim, to counter the lies, has destroyed it, then it deserves to be .

deputydawg


Joined: 30/03/2010
Posts: 1727

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 18:21

At the time of the Annan plan fiasco the government, in response to purchasers who complained of delays with the issue of PTPs for multitudes, made regular statements such as "the backlog was brought down by 80 last month", "we have recruited more staff and will now issue 200 per month" etc etc. Subsequently it was established that there was a moratorium and no PTPs were issued for 3 years. I believe that Kochans of any description in the names of foreigners are only valid for whatever period government may decide that is the case. Follow the signs that year on year their assertion that they will be honoured for all time weakens and all that has occurred are mortgage and memorandum scams. As the saying goes "when do you know that a politician is lying" ? It is when their lips move.

Hector


Joined: 26/08/2008
Posts: 2352

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 19:25

Blade

Would your 'friend' in the Interior Ministry get the Interior Minister (or the PM) to go public to the press and state in writing what the current government policy is? Presumably your friend is right that foreigners can have PTP?



As a matter of interest why on earth should proximity to an army base have anything to do with PTP? You can live next to an army base but not own the property? That really makes sense on the north part of the island that's basically a Turkish army camp.



Putting an end to the 'misconception' you say is wrong about PTP would help the property market wouldn't it?

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 22:30

Hector (mess 28)



Believe me the TRNC Government will put NOTHING in writing!



Although thinking about it blade they might for a very very good friend!



You could not only help yourself here, but many other people?

DaveBoy


Joined: 02/08/2009
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 22:47

Blade ...you do yourself no favors with your ranting..



My identity and email is there for all to see...



I did buy and succesfully sold my property in the trnc without any problems...but know many friends who didnt, fact.



you have yet to give 1 example of anyone in the last 2 years who has received titledeeds on pre 74 turkish title who arent tc.



There are people here trying to guide others into avoiding the pitfalls they encountered..and they are not persons of dubious character as you describe them...merely genuine people giving sound advice.



I hope for your sake you succesfully sell...but please refrain from denegrating others who are offering an alternative view to yours...



I wait your examples with interest....

DaveBoy


Joined: 02/08/2009
Posts: 197

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:13

Blade ...you do yourself no favors with your ranting..



My identity and email is there for all to see...



I did buy and succesfully sold my property in the trnc without any problems...but know many friends who didnt, fact.



you have yet to give 1 example of anyone in the last 2 years who has received titledeeds on pre 74 turkish title who arent tc.



There are people here trying to guide others into avoiding the pitfalls they encountered..and they are not persons of dubious character as you describe them...merely genuine people giving sound advice.



I hope for your sake you succesfully sell...but please refrain from denegrating others who are offering an alternative view to yours...



I wait your examples with interest....

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:29

Hector, for sometime now people have done their best to get Government comment on this issue. All have failed.

Unfortunately rather than use evidence from reliable sources, some appear to use the fact that there has been no Government admittance, as justification that it is not fact. Yet there is now strong evidence to show that refusals are commonplace.

I can assure readers that I do not hold any "sour grapes" regarding my own refusal. Yes I was disappointed having had an excellent build and having made lots of close friends but at the end of the day, with the help of my builder I came out unscathed, with finances intact and lots of happy memories. I have one regret and that is that I listened to those spouting the same old rubbish about Pre 74 being safe. Old threads make interesting reading. On a positive note I am now in a position to educate others by sharing my experiences. Yet, no matter what evidence I quote some will dispute it, their motives being questionable.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:34

From 2008 Q & A Session



We have been advising people to buy Pre-74 Turkish Title Deeds, but now we hear of people being refused permission to purchase. Is that right?



"Yes, lately there have been speculations that the government has some SECRET policy of rejecting permission for non-citizens to purchase on Pre-74 Title land. There is no official legislation or ruling that states any restrictions on this land and when we, or other colleagues, ask the government they say that every application is evaluated on its own merits. But, there is a trend in the application that are being refused and it seems that most, if not all Pre-74 Title Deeds, are being rejected. The only reason given is that it was rejected by the military.



This is a very broad reason which doesn't explain anything. We know that some of the big developers here are trying to challenge the government on this, as of course it is having a big effect on them.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
07/09/2011 23:42

CONT



They have invested heavily in Pre-74 Title, thinking that it would be a much safer and attractive title to sell. They have paid a premium for this land, but are now finding that the value is decreasing because of all these speculations. If this was an OPEN POLICY we could advice clients accordingly, but to just refuse the applications by the back door like this, especially after they have given building permission, is very wrong and it doesn't make economic sense for the country. Especially now with the Orams case and many buyers feeling that Pre-74 land is safer to buy."

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
08/09/2011 00:01

Other articles can be seen on:



http://www.ipb-magazine.com/en/articles/north-cyprus-government-refuses-hand-over-deeds-buyers.



However the best evidence is the HBPG and speaking to those who have experienced and investigated this. From the horses mouth so to speak.



Evidence is certainly not having a friend who says......................or doing your best to belittle others that do not agree with your view. Making ASSUMPTIONS about not having building regulations, planning, near to military

and being of dubious character. This is merely speculation and guess work. It would be good for those making such accusations to actually provide readers with evidence rather than just having a temper tantrum and becoming bitter and hostile.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
09/09/2011 01:16

So is it safer than exchange land ?

Brighteyes


Joined: 07/09/2009
Posts: 195

Message Posted:
18/09/2011 10:31

Sorry i thought there now is only one title now, T R N C freehold,

so even if you buy turkish title the only title you will receive is T R N C freehold, so any ptp would be issued on T R N C FREEHOLD

So you pay a premium for Turkish Title and still only get T R N C FREEHOLD and when you sell it the title is T R N C FREEHOLD

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
18/09/2011 10:43

Brighteyes/ Msg 37:



If you are a foreigner and buy GENUINE pre '74 Turkish Title, you won't be granted PTP by the 'Council of Ministers' - so, how the bloody Hell are you going to be in possession of a TRNC FREEHOLD title?



Also, if and when you sell it, any foreign buyer won't get PTP, either - be assured of that fact!