Site Maintenance payments advice please

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 10:46

As most people know there is an ongoing problem with TQB and M/C, some owners have set up an owners committee and want to run the place themselves, fair enough, I payed the last M/C on time, but I have a problem, the self styled 'treasurer' of this unelected committee has sent me an invoice for payment of my fees, trouble is this self same person didn't pay a penny in fees to the first M/C and was one of the causes of them giving up the site and in the eyes some helped to put the place back 3 yrs, so my questions are

does this person have any right to ask me to pay and on what authority,

do I get a contract ?

what guarantee do I have that my fees are being used appropriately

should this person (a non payer) even be on a committee ?

If it is possible to have sensible replies it would be good, thanks

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 11:48

Does this person have any right to ask me to pay anything. ?



my view.

this person can ask what he/she wants, it is your choice to pay.However under TRNC law this person as an owner can sue you for any essentail repairs to the communal areas.



do I get a contract ?



My view.

The contract will be set up on T/B as soon as these hard working owners proritise the work load at present the priority is the up and running of the site.

Then all will be asked what they want in the contract.



what guarantee do I have that my fees are being used appropriately ?



My view.



A service level agreement together with your ability to inspect the site on a regular baisis to ensure all is being agreed to. Owners again have also been requested to put suggestions through.



should this person (a non payer) even be on a committee ?



My view.



You are talking about a possible non payment of 2 years ago.

Move on or see your investment go down the pan. Self management is the only way

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 17:37

maybe a new vote should be held to elect a committe?

cooper


Joined: 23/10/2007
Posts: 3386

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 19:59

In my view you cant have a self selected committee, everything needs to be transparent from the outset otherwise before you know it you could be setting up a new committee to oversee the current one.

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
23/09/2011 22:45

Johndp

Why are you on the outside you own on this site so stand up and be counted get on the committee and have your say.All the owners need to work together to make the site work. If you dont want to join in pay your money and stand back.

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 07:12

I could have bet on the first respondent ;)

So pipie your stance has changed has it not ? why should I pay as 'there is no sauna or steam room in situ', all the 'pools are not up and running', 'little or no access to the beach' your arguments for refusal to pay in the past !, would you like them brought back to the top, but of course we all know you run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

Moxie mesage 3 I have continually asked for an AGM now for almost a year, it is 2 years+ since this (for the most part acceptable) group of people were put in position by the last M/C, they did nothing in the first 2 years except some posturing, now with the proverbial once again hitting the fan they took it among themselves to start self managing, no owners were asked for their opinions on this, they were just told this is what we are going to do, they held a meeting which was attended by no more than 10 owners which I attended

CONT

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 07:25

I asked at the meeting on 4th Aug. that a proper committee be set up and an election held as soon as possible, I explained the way to set up a constitution so that non payers could be properly dealt with, has it been done -NO - so that blows out the water the argument that owners can sue for essential repairs, this can only be done if things are properly set up.



Message 4 Cooper - exactly my points.



Message 5 fosterscan, your points for the main are irrelevant as they do not answer any of my questions, and yes I have indicated my intention to stand for committee.



In the event of a free and fair election where all candidates can put on the table their abilities, their views for the future of the complex, that their fees are up to date from when they purchased their apartment or when it was originally handed over, in my view it is important that all candidates should be seen to have been a help to the complex from the outset,

Cont

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 07:33

Otherwise there will always be doubts about the honesty & integrity of any individual who does not fall into that category, wouldn't people agree.



Giving the garden areas a tidy up is a start, and credit where it is due the gardener is doing just that, but there are much more serious issues to be addressed and in two years of this "committee" none of them have been addressed and questions about whether the well water can be utilised and if we will be getting mains water from Esentepe are way down the list.



Also bear in mind that if push comes to shove the developer ultimately holds all the aces and he/they should not be treated with contempt.

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 08:27

if it were me i would refuse to pay unless a legitimate vote was held and payments made or not made be adressed..Im sure that it is now the law that a legally registered company must be appointed , Im sure Erolz posted this info? maybe im wrong?. How many owners are there all together? Everyone should have paid equal amounts from the start, those who havent need to cough up, its only fair.



Maybe get a few comapnies to put in a tender, there are some good ones out there.Im not actually sure of all the history there or any legal complications as to the developers, but i can understand your problem, i wish you all the best in getting this sorted. How frustrating !!!

flutterby


Joined: 11/01/2008
Posts: 214

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 09:29

If a Committee has not been set up, or a majority of owners have not voted to self management, then no, I cannot see how you have to pay to this individual, however well intended it is. However, none of you want to see your site go into more dis repair. In the first instance, a properly elected Committee needs to be set up to run the site whichever way is best. However, you could look into the possibility of having a professional company here, say a reputable Accountant administer funds for you. Just a thought. To continue arguing about this here is not going to get things done, you have to start acting now, and within the realms of the new floor easement laws as it is here in the TRNC.

hodgeliz


Joined: 16/10/2010
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 09:45

The blindingly obvious is that there has to be firstly a proper constitution put in place accepted by a simple majority of present owners onthe site, then surely a proper elected comittee elected in a fair way has to come next, you will then prob have to have a fighting fund to take non payers to court, but none of this can be done till the floor law is followed, surely after 3 or 4 years you can all waken up to this and make it a priority.

Its also blindingly obvious now that both mc's who were on there couldnt work without you all paying your fair share and if its true that a past non payer is asking for money from people now then i hope they do the decent thing and pay there dues up to date or you will always have tensions, you too pipie :(

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 10:15

As usual some people want to put the cart before the horse. Whilst it is admirable that some owners are willing to do work on the site to stop their investment from disappearing. Others want to run the show without following the proper procedure. Pipie it doesn't matter how long ago you failed to pay your dues, that money is still owed, you simply cannot say it is 2 years ago and things have moved on. If you were on our site we would not accept that and we have ways of penalising owners who don't pay. I realise that like me you are passionate about your site and you want to see Turqoise Bay running smoothly with all facilities up and running but to do this everyone must pay. As it is you have owners questioning your right to ask for money. You really need to rethink where you are and start voting in an elected committee.



The butlers wife

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 14:35

I am in total agreement with the butler. Ill feelings with regard to non-payment, even if it is 2 years ago, will always be in the way of forming better working relationships and moving forward. Perhaps the starting point has to be putting everyone on an equal footing by making sure all have contributed equally? This does mean back payments will be due but will hopefully stop the bitterness that is so evident in the postings.



Those that did not pay 2 years ago can hardly complain about those refusing to do so now.All talk of court action for maintenance fees are simply threats rather than something you are able to implement. You must have a democratically voted committee and the evidence that the majority of owners agreed to this set up.



In short you will never achieve success unless you all AGREE on the way forward. Splintering will achieve nothing other than putting your investment at risk and cause even more ill feeling.

hodgeliz


Joined: 16/10/2010
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
24/09/2011 16:06

Ive contributed to the discussion on http://www.glencoecyprus.com forum as well and its now easy to see theres a definite opinion forming that the bitterness will not go away till everybody who owes money from no matter how far back pays up, I read back and saw greg suggested that a long while ago and he wanted none of it, just for it to be paid, what I ask now is why have those people not paid into the kitty what they owe its simple and would help the present situation emmensely, unless they are just trying not to pay and using any excuse not to do so, could Lynx and greg publish the money that was not paid on here to name & shame them, I know some people who are posting on this are all for that from other posts.

Bradus your first paragraph is so refreshingly truthful, the bitterness will not go away till equality is acchieved

avsomofthat


Joined: 25/09/2011
Posts: 2

Message Posted:
25/09/2011 11:19

site maintenance payment advice please

johndp

im afraid you got to get your facts right the treasurer never paid glenco maintenance for many reason why.you should

read her email to all turquoise bay residence dated 26/10/2009 then you would know the reasons why, the same e mail explains that the treasurer paid up front for the next year and also paid to lynx the maintenance they owed the previous maintenance company they was just with holding the payment for reason explained in the e mail.

so stop whinging and get your facts right you are still whinging when people are offering there free time to help run the complex so stop your whinging and move on if you can if you want to slag people off start with the non payers from day one if you have any interest in turquoise bay then help out and stop moaning.

hodgeliz


Joined: 16/10/2010
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
25/09/2011 12:22

havesomeofthat,

I mebee reading it wrong but it seems as if its you thats got you facts a bit haywire which is not to unusual for first time posters on here who feel the need to jump to the defense of people.

John said and I quote

*this self same person didn't pay a penny in fees to the first M/C*

you say she paid them to Lynx, so it seems john was correct would you not agree ??? so who is it thats got there facts wrong ? it seems as if its you thats whinging IMO.

fosterscan


Joined: 27/02/2010
Posts: 541

Message Posted:
25/09/2011 15:45

Sounds like it was all paid up only late.

I hope johndp can contact havesomeofthat and the other owners and sort out this issue.

While us nosey people like to read about it doesnt sort anything out.imho

avsomofthat


Joined: 25/09/2011
Posts: 2

Message Posted:
25/09/2011 16:09

looks like i got the message over.

you are quite right it was my first posting.

and this is my last

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
25/09/2011 16:25

Unfortunately for you Vic Vic, all you have done is to stoke the fires a little more, please provide proof of what you say, I have checked with three other people and none of the four of us have an e-mail dated 26/10/09 from your said person giving any reason for refusal to pay maintenance, all you have succeeded in doing is to reinforce the argument that there are no transparencies operating on TQB, also any argument for previous non payment by said individual would equally apply today, however on satisfactory receipt of documented evidence of payment of all fees an appropriate apology will be forthcoming from me, because be aware that there is no record of this payment having been made in any official paperwork from Lynx, so this would also call into question their honesty and transparency in the matter.

An interesting statement made by you *start with the non payers from day one if you have any interest in Turquoise bay* this is precisely what we are trying to do,

Cont

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
25/09/2011 16:29

Or has that fact gone over your head, Surely someone of your intellect can see that ??



I have offered to stand for the committee in the belief that I can bring something positive to the Complex, have you ??

The trouble with an empty jam jar is it attracts the bees but it also attracts the wasps and flies, if you get my drift.

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
26/09/2011 08:45

John If you have offered to stand on the committee then be on the committee how can the group of owners stop you after all they are self elected as I understand it !- from the cryptic information given about TB



How some on here can bulldoze others without Contracts and SLA knowing the law is beyond me hypocritical at best......



I most certainly would not hand over money to a group that I did not trust or know and certainly not without receipts and accountability.



As I have always said they need to go back to the begnning and start again in the correct manner until they did I would 'withold' my money until I was satisfied that all was correct or the 'money' may go into a black hole as clearly your maintenance payments until now have as your site has not improved or been properly maintained for sometime.

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
26/09/2011 10:54

Sienna, I have indicated I would be willing to stand if there is a free and fair election, where each person can put forward their "vision for the future" to steal an old cliche, the trouble is as you well know, things have to be put in place first

1/ constitution 2/ democratically elected committee, 3/ constitution and rules lodged with Lands office. then and only then is a framework in place to be able to chase non payers - and this has been the problem from day one, my father asked people to start the process well over 3 years ago, remember your reply at the time Graham D. ? 'too much of a dictator' ;)

Let me say publicly on this board that I have nothing against the group of people who are trying to get things done on TQB with possibly one exception at present (nothing that cant be sorted) but things must be done in a transparent manner, this is not happening presently, there is too many e-mails flying around between little groups, *guilty as well 'me Lud'

Cont

moxie


Joined: 23/05/2009
Posts: 969

Message Posted:
26/09/2011 11:01

you cant be the only one who feels like this ....its all about numbers ..rally round and get some backing from other owners who are not happy ...that will be a start. Then you as a larger number can insist on a fair election

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
26/09/2011 11:03

As you say Sienna the site has not been properly maintained for some time.

I would ask here and now that people put their money aside, and dont make payments till a proper election of accountable office bearers has taken place and the constitution has been formalised, this will undoubtedly bring the people who want the site to flourish to the fore and the proper way forward will be forthcoming.

I dont want to make accusations towards anybody, but how do people know they can trust the two individuals who have set up the bank accounts for us to pay our money into,

*there have been many instances of 'nice people' fleecing people*

Need to dash now will come back later on

JDP

oliveoil


Joined: 16/03/2008
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
26/09/2011 19:11

I would dearly love to hear responses to these questions as well on an open or closed forum without the need for the secrecy that surrounds everything that is presently going on, it seems as if there are those that get email and those that do not !!!

hodgeliz


Joined: 16/10/2010
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 00:04

message 2

What was actually said in message 1 was

does this person have any right to ask me to pay and on what authority ?

Your view was wrong the person has no right to ask for money as they dont have the authority & are not an elected rep of the site and as pointed out by Elko elsewhere nor is he/she an owner

The poster asked what guarantees do i have that my fees are being used appropriately, again your answer makes no sense please explain where is the guarantee of fees being used appropriately, after all its not so long ago you were making similar claims isnt that so ?

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 09:22

I am confused pipie how can you in another thread on this board advocate, quiet rightly, that MC's should be regulated and accountable etc etc something all sensible owners would like, but then say that a self elected bunch of owners are running T/B that are NOT clearly keeping all owners on that site informed, pay money too and trust !



a) without a properly elected committee

b) without a contract

c) no SLA



All of which on another site you are against.



I am confused

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 00:47

Sienna.



You are not fully in the loop, if you are really interested try getting to know what really is going on.



As far as I am aware all are being informed I know I am.



Yes an election, constitution, contract, sla must be put in situ all of this and self management takes time.'' Crikey'' it has not been to long since this all took off



So far I have no complaints I fully support the step forward by owners who are working hard to get self management off the ground.



Holding down full time jobs,dealing with the running of the complex, getting in funding, tracking down owners, looking into the ins/outs on how to pay ground staff, ensuring pool contracts,etc etc.

So much work and I would imagine that is just the half of it, all of this organising from the UK.



Up to now I only have admiration for these owners trying to keep the site up and running on T/B.

You cannot compare the two sites as the issues are completley different, I know cause I am in the loop.

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 01:33

Cont



Sienna

When your site decided to go forward, hold a tender elect a committee etc etc how long did that take ?



You have to admit it was more straight forward than T/B, cast you mind back to the trials and tribulations, all of the hard work owners and time put in on your site to get owners in the driving seat.







What really surprises me about you is that you have been through simalar turmoil, been through the learning curve yet choose to take note of just one unhappy poster posting time and time again on this forum.

Ask your self why John P has not discussed his concerns and issues in depth with the owners that he has problems with ?

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 08:05

incorrect .... it took us two months to change M/C with a proper vote and contract and SLA yes it was hard work... but you need to do all the above ASAP



and what surprises me about you pipe is you know what its like when some owners take over a site without all this no matter how well intentioned and what a divide it can bring

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 08:29

clearly people are not being kept in the loop you may be happy but you have to accept others are not. You also know what that feels like, I am not taking sides at all I am merely pointing out that I am confused because there is a self elected committee on your site (not T/B) and you have been battling with them ever since so YOU should know the importance of getting this right.



I am not saying that the owners trying to self manage are wrong I am saying you need to involve as many as possible and keep them informed communication is vital



This is not to only protect other owners it is to protect the owners that are on the committee and who are self managing you cannot expect and you wouldn't on your other site pay people whom you dont know or trust or have peace of mind that all was set up correctly I wouldnt that is for sure !



The committee on TB need to get this right this will be the third change for and already delapidated site a huge committment and it is resting on them

sienna


Joined: 09/01/2009
Posts: 1627

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 08:38

a big enough reason why they need to protect themselves as well so all must be done correctly before the finger points firmly back in their direction as said no matter how well intentioned



2 experienced MC have taken this on and failed for one reason or another



I wish you all good luck you are going to need it so to lessen the objections setting this up correctly is a must do immediately otherswise it will be doomed and the fingers will pointing firmly in their direction and what of the financial implications yes a big task for them and massive responsibility this is of course just my opinion

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:09

May I suggest pipie, that you are probably one of the biggest ongoing problems TQB has faced since hand over, you have continually changed your stance to fit in with the mood of the day, I would politely suggest that you take a back seat because your debating skills leave a lot to be desired and you continually make personal attacks quote * I blame Greg for everything* unquote, you are obsessed.



I am one hundred percent behind the need for TQB to move forward and always have been.

It is a fact that we have been asking for a proper constitution and elected committee for over two years now !

In fact it goes back to when Glencoe were on site, when my Stepfather asked Graham & Stuart to start the process to form a consortium, HOW MUCH LONGER do we have to wait ?

There are too many little cliques sending e-mails to one another instead of everything being out in the open, there are lies being told and people's credability could be destroyed very easily.

Cont

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:20

Taken from message 29

*What really surprises me about you is that you have been through simalar turmoil, been through the learning curve yet choose to take note of just one unhappy poster posting time and time again on this forum.

Ask your self why John P has not discussed his concerns and issues in depth with the owners that he has problems with ? *



I am not an unhappy poster so obviously you are not talking about me "phew thats a relief "



*I*have been striving to get a constitution and democratically elected committee for the past two years, is this not constructive ? what have *you been doing pipie ???????????? (your favs)

*

Pipie you are not privy to what I have been doing in the background, and who I have been talking to in depth so once again your statement rings hollow,

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:21

Sienna.



As far as I can see and hear only one poster claims he is not being kept in the loop !!



I can't see any others ??



Yes the owners who are self managing aim to get all in situ so no worries from me on that score.



John p



Why don't you addresss these issues direct with the owners ????????????

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:29

John p.



I*have been striving to get a constitution and democratically elected committee for the past two years, is this not constructive ? what have *you been doing pipie ???????????? (your favs)





If this is the case why have you not kept all owners in the loop then ? cause this is the first I have known about it ?



What exactly have you done to inform owners ?



How many E-mails have you sent out to individual owners ?

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:38

John p



Pipie you are not privy to what I have been doing in the background, and who I have been talking to in depth so once again your statement rings hollow





Exactly !!



So what owners have been privy ????????? I don't know of any !!

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:42

Pipie you are NOT an owner

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 10:09

johndp



I repeat !!



So what owners have been privy ????????? I don't know of any !!







I ask you how many E-mails or what communication have you sent out to owners re your statement.

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 12:40

Pipie may I say without being too rude to you, you are a woman who really does not have a clue, and quite honestly I really dont want anything more to do with you and your useless prattle, as all you bring to any debate is lies, inuendo, rumour and twisted rhetoric, for my part I have indicated my willingness to help in getting the community running properly - end of as far as you and I are concerned !

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 14:47

johndp.



Your wish for no more communication with me is welcomed so no probs on that score !!



However try communicating with the community who are working there socks off to get all up and running at T/B instead of griping at every opportunity !!



If you are serious about helping then do just that.



If not then carry on with your nonsense !!

oliveoil


Joined: 16/03/2008
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 15:29

Anita

We have been watching your nonsense on this board for the past 3 or 4 years, your contributions to the enhancement of Turquoise bay has been a big fat NIL, its also a shame the same community didnt work their socks off a damned sigth sooner AND WE WOULD HAVE SOME PEACE AND ENJOYMENT, instead of having our place up for sale, as yours has been for 3 yrs as well, two faced or what ??

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 17:27

oliveoil



Simple !! no one is forcing you to read my posts !!

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 17:38

oliveoil.



Make your mind up you stated on another thread



''I must put my vote for, we love the TRNC and would never want to move from here, some people though go the wrong wayin their approach to things here, this is not England and you have to accept it for what it is, after all it is country !!



yet in message 42 you state your property is up for sale !! mmmmmmm



big hole awaits !!

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 18:54

Pipie,looks like you are losing this one by other posts.

Also, IF as stated, YOU do not own on the site in question, why get so involved???

Do YOU, own on said site (yes or no answer appreciated)

Pipie


Joined: 05/01/2008
Posts: 5499

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 19:26

Do you have to own to participate on a thread ?

Scoty


Joined: 23/05/2010
Posts: 846

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 20:02

Msg 46 - I take it you DO NOT own on the site discussed then!

So why are you so bothered with said site???

Sorry folks, but I don't own there and although interested in how things will progress, do not understand why NON owners get so involved in trying to run the place.

hodgeliz


Joined: 16/10/2010
Posts: 278

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 23:29

pipie have you never thought that people are selling on TQB because of the "big hole it is" made that way by your antics, how many years have you been stirring things there and elsewhere lol

oliveoil


Joined: 16/03/2008
Posts: 58

Message Posted:
02/10/2011 09:56

Message 44

Mrs pipie we are lucky enough to own further properties we love the island and didn't see it as a get rich quick scheme

good enough for you ?????



your mess 37 & 39, you dont know everybody and to be honest a lot dont want to know you



Your mess 41, you have been griping for many years and have never done one single thing to help on TQB but you did refuse to pay your fees

If you *really* want to help, dont comment on these threads you would be doing us all a favor TA!

johndp


Joined: 08/09/2009
Posts: 497

Message Posted:
16/10/2011 08:58

An update

The people purporting to represent the owners onn TQB have sent out a draft constitution document, it is overall a good document but there are to me some flaws in it, I have sent out my amendments to over 50 people I can get contact details for, but I dont have everyones e-mail, if you didn't get it please let me know jdpenhale@gmail.com I have had a number of e-mails of support but no acknowledgement from the 'committee' yet, one owner pointed out another wording anomoly as well so with everyones input a good final document can be put together, remember this document is a constitution for the whole site and ALL owners not for the benefit of the committee and to give them unrestricted powers.