A burning question as to Gary Robb's degree of guilt in TRNC/RoC

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 08:57

Was Gary Robb any more guilty than the Orams when he initially bought the land at 'Amaranta Valley'?



Surely, as a businessman, intending to become a developer in TRNC, he had to place trust somewhere, and that trust must have come from assurances from the government of the time at the highest level. Had he not believed such assurances, what person in their right mind would have sunk so much capital into importing the huge amount of plant and machinery necessary for such a large project?



How much skulduggery was actually perpetrated by his TC partners and advisors, and [allegedly] the banks? That such subversive and fraudulent 'activity' occurred is undeniable. How will the details ever come to light?



These are logical questions for which personal recriminations against the poster, myself, can only be irrevelant and superfluous - in other words, please, 'don't shoot the messenger'!

lally


Joined: 21/08/2009
Posts: 77

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 09:20

What's the purpose of the post! If you post something like this, surely you expect emotive replies......

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 09:32

Any more guilty of what ? The Orams were prosecuted for tresspass in the RoC in a civil action. Gary Robb is being prosecuted in the RoC for a range of criminal offenses that are not trespass.



Nor was he just a 'businessman' looking to invest in property development anywhere he could trust. Let's be honest about this, he was on the run from prosecution in the UK for serious drug related offences and that fact would have limited and influence where he could and would invest in property development as much as 'trust' alone.



The TRNC does not consider either the Orams or Mr Robb guilty of property related offenses. The Orams were not prosecuted by the RoC but by an indivdual in a civil action. The RoC does consider Mr Robb guilty of various property related offenses as they do several others also subject to the same EAW that Mr Robb was issued. The RoC clearly consider these others equally guilty as Mr Robb, they just do not have the means to bring them to trial.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 09:36

The question relates to the apportionment of blame - but if it makes anyone feel any better, I'm ready for the flak!



'lally' - didn't you post the following recently?



petition to bring zerochlor back

Maybe you should post some of the emails and then as you say people could see the real person behind the alter ego, no abuse should be given on this forum from anybody to anybody, regardless of their opinions and if they...

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 09:50

Still do not understand the question. What the degree of comparative guilt is depends on who you are asking.



If you ask the TRNC public prosecutor, then neither the Orams or Mr Robb is guilty of property related offenses. If you ask the RoC courts the Orams are guilty of tresspass and if you ask the RoC public prosecutor Mr Robb is guilty of various offenses relating to his development of disputed title land. If you ask those who bought property from Mr Robb in North Cyprus I have little doubt that they consider him guilty of all manner of things and equally so with others involved in his projects, including members of government and banks.



Its all a case of who and where you ask as I see it. If you ask me personaly do I think he is equally guilty as the Orams, I am not sure I personally think the Orams were guilty of anything except being in the wrong place at wrong time and being unlucky. I do not have quite the same view of Mr Robb.



Do you think he is no more guilty than O

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 10:04

What I think doesn't matter. However, many people think that Gary Robb, in his naivety of Cypriot affairs, was 'hoodwinked' into buying 'Amaranta' in the first place - just as the Orams were by whoever their advocate and estate agent was.



I wonder what percentage of foreign buyers knew the political ramifications, or even considered any element of risk in their purchase.



Could Gary Robb be numbered in that category, possibly?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 10:12

He may or may not have understood the political and legal ramifications of developing disputed title land in the North but I have little doubt he was very aware of the political and legal ramifications re extradition between the UK and the TRNC when he chose to invest in the TRNC rather than elsewhere.



So far he brings the number off people who have 'lost' by getting involved in disputed title property in the north, because of its disputed title, to a grand total of 2 (him and the Orams).



Was he 'hoodwinked' ? Possibly he was. Does he have the same level of sympathy from me as others who have lost, not because of the disputed title nature of TRNC deeds but because of systematic failures of the procedures and laws and enforcment of laws around the purchasing of property in the North. Certainly not. Nor as the Ormas, the only other indivdulas to date to have lost because of the disputed title deeds of the property they were involved with.

the butler


Joined: 22/06/2007
Posts: 1958

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 10:41

I think that there are others just as guilty as Mr. Robb who were involved in Amaranta Valley but because they are Turkish Cypriots, nothing has or can be done about them. Lets face it, the majority of us who bought on exchange land believed what we were told at the time. That this land had been exchanged for land in the south and it was safe.

TRNCvictim


Joined: 17/08/2010
Posts: 1417

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 10:56

the butler (mess 8)



You are certainly right there, they have been named time and time again, they continue to walk free in the TRNC with their victims money in their pockets, but one thing is certain, they won't be able to travel very far from the TRNC or Turkey, to a certain extent they are as confined as Gary Robb, although when he has served his sentence he will be able to walk free (more's the pity) where as their confinement will continue!

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 11:26

Many of us who have followed the 'Aga Saga' - even from the days of the now defunct 'Cyprus Times' [Dr. Harman] newspaper, which frequently championed the cause for GR's innocence, know the names of the [alleged] co-conspirators and realise that their 'double-bluff' dealings can never be traced due to the reticence of successive governments to order and make an in depth investigation. Is it possible that there still exists a computer 'paper trail' showing where the money disappeared to? I'm sure the banks [allegedly] involved have even gone to the trouble of removing any traceable 'hard disc' evidence - or, this being Cyprus, have they?



'the butler' has 'put the ring around it' in msg 8 - and buyers of pre '74 Turkish Title were similarly 'hoodwinked'.



Gary Robb wasn't the only refugee from British justice that chose TRNC. According to a BBC 'Horizon' documentary, circa 2005, when Spain became a signatory to the extradition treaty, the crooks flocked here from Marbella!

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 11:49

The RoC certainly sees Gary Robb's 'co-conspirators' as equally guilty as him and if they could get them in a RoC court they would do the same to them. The RoC does not see Gary Robb as being equally guilty or guilty of the same things as the Orams, despite propaganda stories to the contrary. The TRNC quite naturally does not see any of them as guilty as far as developing or buying or using disputed title property goes.



Gary Robb certainly was not the only 'wanted' person to come to the North nor will he be the last. The point I am making is that his decision to invest in the TRNC rather than anywhere else must have been massively influenced by his status as wanted in the UK for prosecution and not just by the factors you suggest in message 1.



As for the idea that he is simply a 'victim' of Nothern Cyprus property shenannigans no different from the thousands of other such victims who merely bought property in good faith, that is not one I share. In fact I think it is ridiculous.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
28/09/2011 13:39

Erolz stated:

As for the idea that he is simply a 'victim' of Northern Cyprus property shenanigans no different from the thousands of other such victims who merely bought property in good faith, that is not one I share. In fact I think it is ridiculous.



I too think this is a ridiculous statement. The only victims were the buyers that did not get what they paid for and whose dreams were shattered. Robb deserves everything he gets.I think he has come off lightly but his future still remains uncertain. It is a pity that those who allowed his admission into the TRNC and worse still allowed him to set up a business cannot be brought to account. What does this action say about the TRNC? We can put aside the admission of a "drugs baron" and any concerns we might have for our citizens? Our only objective is making money.



Well isn't that a theme seen over and over again?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 03:04

Just a test case to scare people

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 08:09

Oh for goodness sake, Robb bought here because as a felon, on the run, it was quite possibly the only place he could buy. He then went on to carry on his business dealings in the only way he knows how. Greasing palms and easing his way along so that he could do what he wanted, when he wanted and to whom he wanted. His only mistake, he met and did business with people as crooked as him. When they thought he was no longer of use to them, they sold him out by having him deported The pity of it is that they have ruined lives, caused premature deaths, stolen from the most innocent of people and will eventually walk away scot free. 10 months in prison, nothing to him. As for his cohorts, may they all rot in hell.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 09:32

The worrying thing is that many people, it has been suggested, believe that 'people as crooked as him' [allegedly] ran and still run the TRNC, otherwise GR's co-conspirators, who ended up fleecing him, would have been weeded out and exposed.



This hasn't happened to date and most people know damn well that it never will.



The lack of 'human rights' and protective laws re. property acquisition, especially as far as foreigners are concerned, which should have been implemented and enforced since the experiences of the 'Orams' and the 'Aga Saga', have fuelled further despicable 'legal' scams - eg: 'Kulaksiz 5'.

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 09:47

The ultimate protection of human rights in the TRNC is the same as in the UK, Turkey, France and any other member of the Council of Europe and covers citizens and non citzens equally. Namely the ECHR. The ECHR has jurisdiction and has proven an effective means of protecting and rectifying human rights abuses, though it is a long and slow process.



The Orams case was nothing to do with failures of procedures or laws around buying property in the TRNC.



Having said that there is no doubt that there are serious and systematic failures in the proceses and laws around buying property in the TRNC and in the legal process for redress when things go wrong. These should have be dealt with years ago and still need to be dealt with and ultimately if they are not addressed by the TRNC itself proactively then the ECHR will ultimately force Turkey to force the TRNC to rectify them.



Even when all this is done some 'innocents' will still loose because of economic failures and fraud.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
29/09/2011 09:51

Akan Kursat - still active against K5 - co shareholder.



Leader of the Constructors was a Drector.



Another advocate secretary/director.



Waste of time, waste of breath naming names here - They look after their own, no choice, they have too much on each other. When your friend becomes your foe, all the world your secret will know. They cannot afford to fall out.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
12/10/2011 01:28

Will there also be arrest warrants issued