Turkish Cypriot OR CYPRUS TURK ?

passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 08:42

Never mind what the current regime say are you a Turkish Cypriot OR CYPRUS TURK ?



I am neither but see it as further Turkification of the northern part of the island.

passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 08:43

Here is what gave rise to the question



http://www.brtk.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=34086:pr-eroglu-complains-of-double-standard-applied-on-cyprus-turks&catid=5:kktc&Itemid=28

netnono


Joined: 18/08/2011
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 08:46

What's wrong with Turkification - if it wasn't for the Turks the whole island would be Greek Cypriot, there would be no pay for government workers, no 13th month salary and none of the dirty jobs would get done.

passionflower


Joined: 20/09/2011
Posts: 168

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 08:54

what is wrong with Turkish Cypriot heritage ?

netnono


Joined: 18/08/2011
Posts: 48

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:07

Nothing wrong with Turkish Cypriot heritage but surely it is Turkish?

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:13

Personally I consider myself (half) Cypriot first and foremost and then as a futher sub classification, Turkish Cypriot as a descirption of a particular 'type' of Cypriot. For me putting Turkish before Cypriot when I do use the term Turkish Cypriot is not giving a 'priority' to the Turkish part. In fact the reverse as I see it. With my name the second part, the surname is the more 'important' part of the description. Or to use another comparision to me Cypriot is the noun and Turkish is the adjective, like if I say I have a blue car. That I have car is the main part of the information, the blue part is just additional extra information to the main part. So too with Turkish Cypriot. Cypriot is the 'main' part, Turkish is just a bit of additional information to this 'main' part.



Just my own personal view, I know other have others and I respect those too.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:34

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet".

Is it evidence of 'Turkification'?

Is Turkification the lesser or two evils?

Ask those who lost their loved ones at the hands of those seeking Greekification..

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:42

Groucho one can still dream of something that is neither Turkification or Greekification, but Cyprification both north and south.



Turkification of the North at a rate faster than that due to general globalisation is actual a problem in some ways for Turkey itself as I see things. Its 'premise' for being here was and is to proptect a Cypriot people that happened to have a Trurkish cultural and was being persecuted by a larger Cypriot people with a different cutural background, not to protect Turks who happened to live as a foregien minority in Cyprus. It is here BECAUSE we, TC , are Cypriot. As we just become Turks who happend to live in Cyprus this justification becomes harder to argue imo.



It is because we were Cypriots, that we got the rights we did as a community under the 60's agreements, when Cyprus fianlly gained independance. If we were just Turks who happend to live in Cyprus the justification for the rights we gained as a Cypriot community and people [cont]

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:44

I am a Turkish Cypriot and everybody who speak Turkish and have adopted the way of life here are Turkish Cypriots as far as I am concerned. It has been my dream since childhood that we TCs outnumber Greek Cypriots as the only way to safeguard our safety against GC fanatics. So I have no qualms about the increase in population of north Cyprus due to influx from Turkey.

ismet

erolz


Joined: 17/11/2008
Posts: 3456

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:45

who were exlcuded by GC as far as they defined themselves as Greeks would not have existed, at least as far as I see things. So now as far as Turkey justifiys its presense here as being the defense and protection of this Cypriot group / community /people in Cyprus in the face of another Cypriot group / community / peoples aggression, then the less Cypriot we actual become the harder that justification is.



I am not really explaing myself very well I fear but I am trying. Again these are just my own personal views and nothing more and certainly not any assertion of what is objectively or absolutely true or right.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 09:59

I have no objection to Cypriot, Turkish Cypriot or my preference Turkish speaking Cypriot.

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 10:58

It seems a shame that any names need to be applied beyond Cypriot or that the community was split asunder by the machinations of those seeking to use racial/religious issues as a means to their political ends - will we ever really know how or why those who sought ENOSIS were able to convince Greek Speaking Cypriots that it was a good idea? Not that they all did think that - as that's why the hard-core activists in EOKA turned on their own.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 11:10

I think its a shame if Turkish Cypriots loose their identity and culture. Those Turkish Cypriots living abroad

still for example use words and grammer that is slowly disappearing from the vocabulary of the islands community. These words are seen as too Greek or not proper Turkish. Its a shame! They are part of who we are! Australians, Americans, Jamaicans have their own versions of English why should we not retain our identity.



Words like alina, bulli, piron. Why do we need to just copy everything that is Turkish and not retain our own

language.

Tenakoutou



Joined: 27/07/2009
Posts: 4110

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 11:20

So, if I said to you: 'Namboushi!' [G'day! - How's it all going?] - would you, as a Cypriot, understand that?



This greeting is quite extensively used in the RoC - perhaps it's a univerally common Cypriot greeting?

elko2



Joined: 24/07/2007
Posts: 4400

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 11:22

Visitor,

Languages have always been dynamic i.e. nothing remains the same. Nobody is stopping you from using those words that you mentioned and nothing should stop me from using different words for the same meanings. So at the end of the day it is a matter of general acceptance.



In Cyprus years ago all the cars were called "taksi" but now only taxis are called that. However you are free to go back in time if you wish. Indeed my cousin who has been living in London since 1960 uses that word together with many others which fallen out of use in Cyprus.

ismet

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 11:41

Elko2



Is a typical person who runs his thoughts from bitterness and emotion, turks are not cypriots and vice versa, over time the north of the island will only have turkish people, you may call them cypriots if they are born there but it will be turkish ways past down, what a shame for the island.

At the time of the invasion tc were 17% or something, but turkey took over 30% of the island, of course most cypriots are going to be pissed of.

Visitor you are right.

North cyprus in not a country in it's own right, and i would guess someday someone will step in and say get lost, until then its a great place for a bargain lifestyle so it suits me fine.

kbasat



Joined: 28/07/2011
Posts: 481

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 11:51

'CYPRUS TURK' does not even sound correct. K.

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 12:20

Ismet you are correct, languages evolve. There are many English words for example that have been naturally incorporated into spoken Turkish. But its my opinion that there has been a deliberate attempt to eradicate

these words by making their use socially unacceptable in the TRNC. I recall my cousin correcting my nephew

when he used the word piron (fork).

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 15:41

Hi Ismet,



we know someone who is a TC - who ONLY knew the Cypriot Greek dialect - and had an 'interesting' time at school adapting - teased a lot...



Lots of TCs spoke 'Greek' more than 'Turkish' and the 'Greek' spoken (esp. north of Paphos) was ridiculed by folks from Lima(s)sol.



Mainland Greek sounds MUCH easier on the ear than Cypriot Greek... I'm afraid my Turkish isn't good enogh to hear the difference :(

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 16:57

Those who were in Cyprus before 1974 are Turkish speaking Cypriots

Those who came after 1974 are Cyprus Turks.. simple as that!

waddo


Joined: 29/11/2008
Posts: 1966

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 17:11

So what is the problem? It is not as if it is an isolated incident after all. I was born in the North Riding of Yorkshire and called myself a Yorkshireman - the place has been taken over by politicians and "Outsiders" and is now called Cleveland!!! However, I still call myself a Yorkshireman - you can not change your heritage no matter what you do so if Turkish speaking Cypriots who were born on Island in a Turkish speaking village/town want to call themselves Turkish Cypriots then why not? If mainland Turkish who now live here want to call themselves Cypriot Turks then it is no problem because their own heritage will always see them as Turkish and not Cypriot at all.



Its not so much the name but what is in the heart - go with your heart and call yourself what you wish - you will always be right.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 17:11

OK some facts.

First: All of my neighbors that were displaced from Paphos regard themselves as being Cypriot Turks.

Second: If you want to learn the language then go to some one that teaches Cypriot Turkish rather than Turkish.

Third: The influx from Turkey is not a problem for most Cypriot Turks as they will do the jobs that their educated children will not do.

Fourth: The biggest problem that Cypriot Turks have is with people that left the Island before and during the conflict and now are coming back to 'reclaim' their heritage and in the process bringing their way of life with them whether they be from the UK, Australia, Germany or where ever.

So the Cypriot Turks are under assault from all sides including the ROC and all they want to do is preserve their way of life.

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 17:46

Turkish speaking Cypriots are no more Turkish than Greek speaking Cypriots are Greek..

rest is wishfull thinking!!

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 17:50

As far as I know - but please correct me if I am wrong - the Turkish for "Turkish Cypriot" is "Türk Kıbrıslı , the 'lı' suffix not being quite translatable but meaning rougly "of" or "having the property of" or just "with" (as in "with sugar = şekerli') so Cypriot Turk (Cypriot the adjective not Cyprus the noun) would perhaps be the more accurate translation.



Does anyone know what descripton was used in Turkish in the speach in queston?



PS I have often heard (Turkish) Cypriot friends being very insistent that they are Cypriot first and Turks secondly as per Elko in message 6.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 17:58

AJ

re 22



re 'fact 1' : it is an *opinion/ viewpoint*.... and its has already been 'pooh poohed' by other TCs / CTs further up the thread !



re 'fact' 3 : you must 'miss' Yorg's posts and he is not a tiny minority..

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 18:13

msg22..AJ "All they want to do is preserve there way of life"





Blimey AJ, you could say that about innumerable cultures that have changed due to outside influences..It's not unique and you cant turn the clock back...

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 18:46

For those that have replied to my posting, let me get one thing straight. I have spent a lot of time talking to Cypriot Turks that remained on the Island during the conflict and I have also spent a lot of time talking to those that had left the Island and have since returned. I have an ongoing project whereby I record all of the conversations that I have had and will have. When I have enough material I will be willing to share it with anyone that wants to make themselves aware of what Cypriot Turks think about their situation.

AJ

dalartokat


Joined: 14/04/2008
Posts: 734

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 20:00

AJ, message 27.... does that include the tape I posted to you in the UK before you left for NC and you were going to send me a copy when you transferred it to disk(wink and smiley).

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
30/09/2011 20:10

AJ, re 27



>>Let's get one thing straight<<



Pretty SURE you need to talk to a LOT more Cypriots - in general ;)

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 00:02

AJ,you are full of sh*t.You keep claiming you have proof of 'this and that' but you never publish it,why is that?

Visitor


Joined: 19/08/2010
Posts: 492

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 00:16

The reality is that there is no uniform position. But I consider myself a Cypriot first as do most members of my family who live in Cyprus. Regardless of research! I have nothing against the Turkish settlers but we identify ourselves as a different people. Why should we deny our heritage. Corsicans are French and Corsican

they have a island heritage that encompasses different cultures and traditions, some unique, some shared!

Lets be proud of our identity as Turkish Cypriots.

bigOz


Joined: 29/09/2010
Posts: 1244

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 05:53

AJ

Firstly, people often tell foreigners what they think they would like to hear. And TCs are very good at assessing what the political views of another are. So the accuracy of any such project would be questionable.

Second, I have been a TC for few hundred years, with a very large family & friend group, and socially involved with many other TCs. Add to that, as an avid follower of current political situation in Cyprus, I often discuss such issues with many TCs from all walks of life (shop keepers, skilled workers, students, teachers, soldiers etc.). My own conclusion is that, possibly more than 90% of TCs think of themselves Cypriots first, with a different cultural & social background, and Turkish next. Just like the Azerbeijani, Turkmen, or Kırgız Turks would do.

Like these other cultures, they have nothing against Turkey, and in fact they see them as the most important ally. What people here object to is the intentional systematic destruction of their culture and char

Groucho



Joined: 26/04/2008
Posts: 7993

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 09:28

Stelee77 "At the time of the invasion tc were 17% or something, but turkey took over 30% of the island, of course most cypriots are going to be pissed of. "

You are making the mistake of equating numbers of people with land mass... As TCs were mostly in farming they occupied a disproportionate area of land... just like in Scotland where it is estimated more than 80% of the land in Scotland is owned by less than 1% of the people.

ROC figures published in 2005 stated that approximately 30% of land was at one time under TC ownership, and they currently occupy 37%. So it's not quite as you state.

iceman


Joined: 15/08/2008
Posts: 724

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 10:24

Groucho

I would like to see the link to the document where ROC figures quoted 30% of land being TC titled at one time..(was any date given?)

This was not the case for sure pre 1974...as far as i know, the total privately owned TC land pre 1974 was 16%.

The biggest mistake usually done by people (and GC's) is that they assume if 16% was owned by TC's, then 84% must have been owned by GC's...this is wrong!!!

The land ownership figures are for privately owned land and the state owned land is not taken into account.

TC's also have a share in the state owned land if ever there is going to be a settlement between two sides to separate officially..

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 10:58

BigOz

'Second, I have been a TC for few hundred years,'

' My own conclusion is that, possibly more than 90% of TCs think of themselves Cypriots first, with a different cultural & social background, and Turkish next.'



'Like these other cultures, they have nothing against Turkey, and in fact they see them as the most important ally. What people here object to is the intentional systematic destruction of their culture and char'



So we agree then?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 11:01

gooligan

Ref message 30.

If you are not capable of engaging in educated debate then butt out.

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 11:34

re 35



Hi AJ, do YOU agree that



>>people often tell foreigners what they think they would like to hear. And TCs are very good at assessing what the political views of another are. So the accuracy of any such project would be questionable. <<



too ?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 11:51

Mark

Why would I not believe what a I am being told? Are you telling me that all of the Cypriot Turks that I have spoken to whether they are native to the Island or whether they are returnees from other countries are telling lies?

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 12:21

re 38



I believe you ( again) missed the point... and you suggest *I* am sometimes 'obtuse' ...



OK, may be it just BigOz that 'fibs'.... ;)

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 12:26

AJ,nodody believes a word you say anymore,your credibility was lost a long time ago.Too many times you have claimed you have 'evidence' of this or that to try to discredit someone but you never show any proof of this evidence.Why dont you publish these 'recordings' online now,if they exist that is.

stelee77


Joined: 06/06/2011
Posts: 557

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 13:05

Give me a baseball bat and knuckle duster, i'm going to sort this cyprus shit out.

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 17:28

Gooligan

Yeh whatever. Like I said before if you cannot contribute to an educated debate without getting personal then butt out. Email me and I will certainly provide you with the information you require.

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 17:33

Of course you will Dave,but I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

I thought you promised never to post on here any more?

AlsancakJack



Joined: 14/08/2008
Posts: 5762

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 17:46

gooligan

I have a passion about the TRNC, maybe you do not and the reason why I still post is exactly that. If you have a passion for the TRNC and you would like to meet up so we can discuss your apparent misconceptions about me then e-mail me and if we meet you may be surprised.

AJ

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 17:51

AJ,



As someone who's 'rules' on your 'blog' make open and intelligent discussion an anathema it is indeed ironic ( as pointed out by Gooligan) to see you here and posting - inviting members here to 'visit'.. indeed this ONE thread's posts exceeds the total posts there today by nearly 15 times... ! Not 'bad' for a "derailed chatroom", as Hans describes us...



AMAZING you'd lower yourself.....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 17:53

( cont) Nought wrong with 'passion' as long as reason is retained with those with differing viewpoints..

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 18:03

6m's........... It's Hans that's "Derailed"...or should I say, "Suffering the slings and arrows of his outrageous fortune",and AJ in the middle of a post interrupting with "Cut The Crap, when are you going to get your butt up the Black Olive? I think they deserve each other....

mmmmmm



Joined: 19/12/2008
Posts: 8398

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 18:07

re 47



Waiting for a nice ship to offload in Rotterdam and then send me some things I need for CY... THEN I'll be visiting Cyprus and checking out AJ's "you won't get in to 'TRNC', Mark" ;)

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 18:14

AJ,you make accusations you can't prove,promises you don't keep,why on earth would I want to meet you?

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
01/10/2011 18:28

I want to meet him at the Black Olive,we could talk about pipe-fitting....