Why don't you lot join Embargoed!

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 18:58

Embargoed - the human right campaign group which aims to get the embargoes against the TRNC dropped is widely recognised for punching above its weight.



It gets big names on side and gets its name out there in the media saying helpful things, despite having a budget of next to nothing and being staffed entirely by volunteers.



But what would really make a difference is if Embargoed could employ some full time staff - and pay some big PR companies to do the kind of mass media work that the people on the other side of the green line are so good at.



Part of the problem is that its membership base - and thus the range of experience that E! can draw on (and get a tenner a year membership fee from) is pretty small.



What should we be doing to (a) get people paying membership fees and (b) get them to become active members?

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 19:07

Quick answer

sort out the housing situation

or offer to help

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 19:11

Dear Phil,



Sort out the housing situation? Get real. We are a group of volunteers, based mainly in the UK.



TRY to sort out the housing situation?



Please go and ask those who have suffered if they have had any help and support from Ipek Ozerim and Embargoed. Then come back and post again.



Beekeeper.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 19:24

Many members have been very proactive in helping with the property problems. Let us not forget that it is not just the Brits that have experienced housing scams many Turkish Cypriots have too. Embargo have certainly helped publicise the problems and have also demanded changes to the law.



However I think you need to accept that the Government's image as being corrupt with widespread nepotism and discrimination rife, is hardly going to want the public to vote for recognition. With even more power one wonders what sort of Government would there be running the TRNC?



Herein lies your problem....................faith in the ruling power.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 19:32

Don't forget folks the main purpose of Embargoed! is to get embargoes lifted! simple, and yet so difficult. The idea is to get the British Governmen t who promised, v ia Jack Straw, at the time of the Annan Plan to lift the pesky things. And have they? No siree. If these embargoes were lifted, trading would be easier, life would be less costly (everything coming in has to have two lots of taxes levied, and anything exported the same).

embargoed! is all for human rights and does campaign where injustices are seen to be done, but their primary aim is for the country to be treated as existing. Let the Cheshire Homes send participants to the Paralympics; let us take part in the Euro Vision song contest - or whatever level. Why can't we? Embargoes!!!!!!!!!! E! can win only if you work with them. So why not join and help make a difference, especially to those who live here!

donaghadee3


Joined: 25/01/2009
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 19:40

Hi we are members - always have been.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 19:58

Thank you, donaghadee3!

gallop


Joined: 12/12/2010
Posts: 75

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 20:04

After 8 years of seeking justice without success I take the view due to the corruption and nepotismat Mall levels the only hope is by using the offices of ECHR outside of the country.

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 20:06

Agree. Sadly not enough folk out here are. the guys in london work hard for us, and yet nowhere near enough people support them and it is in their own interests. Maybe they just don't realise what is being done. for a long time I have asked to do more here, but the time has not been right. Maybe we could have a local 'branch'. so who else is a member?

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 20:28

The root of most of the problems in the TRNC is the embargoes. If the TRNC could operate direct flights to the rest of the world and trade with the rest of the world, the local corruption would be both unnecessary (people could make an honest living more easily) and harder to get away with.



Marion - that's a great suggestion - a local branch. Anyone up for it?



Any other thoughts? We need big ideas of how to raise enough cash to actually get things to change, plus help to implement them.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 20:33

Ok so right beekeeeper you think all the problems, corruption, nepotism, and downright illegal acts will go away if the embargoes go? I have to agree with the above, show legality, good and open governance and honesty and people will support you, as it is I think not.

ataturk


Joined: 09/09/2008
Posts: 712

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 20:53

I think a lot of people misunderstand what the embargoes are. Embargoes are on what we can sell to the world, the Greeks try and make trade difficult for us around the world. The other embargo is the flights everything else is bulls@@t. The heavy taxes in the cars and van ps that come into the trnc is down to the government together with the removal of any Greek registered vehicles on this side to make sure we don't use any loopholes. What about the expensive taxes on goods coming in to the trnc who's responsible for that, yes that's right it's our government and to add insult to injury they search us on the way back from the south to make sure we don't get anything cheaper on the south. What about all the stealth taxes we pay here and the difficulty in setting up a business not to mention how tough they are with their tax collections.



The embargoes will be liter when the British and the USA say so so let's not kid ourselves. Our greedy government is to blame no one else.

Bradus


Joined: 25/02/2007
Posts: 2641

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 20:54

Local corruption would be unnecessary?????



Judging by the amount of very expensive cars and villas owned by developers, its been unnecessary for some time now!



Please do not justify the fraud and corruption as a necessary evil of the embargoes. There was no need for such corruption to be perpetrated in the first place. Whats up with making an honest living and living within your means?



Sheer greed by a few has lead to the position the TC and Brits find themselves in. Not the embargoes.



That does not mean that I do not wish to see them lifted but lets not make excuses now.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 20:56

Dear Pugwash,



You obviously haven't understood what I'm trying to say - or really anything at all.



Embargoed is run by a bunch of honest, decent volunteers. We are trying to change things for the better. To do so, we need help. If we get help, then maybe we can make a difference.



Some people - naming no names - simply spend their time on forums like this, whinging and attacking the wrong people, rather than trying to help. My advice to those people would be to either help, or keep your counsel. Your current strategy isn't helping anyone.



Best regards,



The beekeeper.

ataturk


Joined: 09/09/2008
Posts: 712

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:17

Does anyone actually know what the embargoes affect I would love to know apart from what I have mentioned I can only think of sport is there anything else

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:20

For those interested, you can sign up for a tenner (we take Paypal) and if you have ideas how we can improve things (as a group of volunteers with limited resources), we will listen. It takes just a few minutes - http://www.embargoed.org



We also have our own new forum for members only who want do something positive - unhelpful, whinging expats not allowed. The address is http://www.embargoedchat.co.uk .

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:23

Here's a few things



Trade

Sport

Flights (need to go via Turkey)

Airfares (see above)

Ability of non-EU citizens to cross the green line

Ability of expats to bring pets in and out easily.



Any more?

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:33

I would like to personally doth my cap to you Beekeeper,



Paul.

Pugwash


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 1797

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:34

I do understand indeed beekeeper, you may be a bunch of fine well intentioned people however in my opinion you are barking up the wrong tree, by the way where do you currently live beekeeper?

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:42

Thanks, Newlad!



Pugwash - Both in the TRNC and in the UK.

stevie-d



Joined: 13/07/2007
Posts: 1420

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:48

We are members since 2005.



stevie-d

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 21:57

Thanks, Stevie-d.



Do please join the forum at http://www.embargoedchat.co.uk - we've set it up to try and get members in the TRNC more involved in shaping the direction, thinking and plans of Embargoed.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:09

What about people that dont live out there Bee,



Paul.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:30

All Embargoed! members are welcome at http://www.embargoedchat.co.uk . We were just aware that it was hard for members in the TRNC to be part of the discussion, as so much of it took place in London. Meeting online means no-one, whether in the TRNC, the north of England, or even Timbuktoo need be left out. Opportunities are equal online.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:32

How do you propose to by-pass

UN resolutions ?

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:37

Dear Phil Bailey,



I think I know whose side you would have taken when Emmeline Pankhurst threw herself under the King's horse.



Beekeeper.

gooligan


Joined: 30/01/2007
Posts: 1591

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:37

philbailey,those stupid bloody resolutions shouldn't have been passed in the first place.

newlad



Joined: 02/03/2008
Posts: 7819

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:44

Phil B,



Whats your problem with Embargoe,



Paul.

philbailey


Joined: 17/01/2011
Posts: 3534

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:52

My point is right or wrong (resolutions)

if the smoking lobby

with all their backing in the uk (inc celebrities)

cannot get a review of the smoking laws



What real chance has a few hundred ex-pats

got to change any thing



If people were serious the would stop using ROC airports

stop crossing for shopping etc



Money speaks louder than words

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 22:59

I think your example of smoking is a good one.



Massive money (the tobacco industry) was at working keeping people smoking.



Small, badly funded campaign groups (like ASH) in the UK eventually undermined them through persistence and hard work, because they had right on their side.



It's a great example of why we will eventually succeed.

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 23:00

I looked at the Website for Embargoed some time ago, meaning to join, but I am not computer literature , couldnt find my way around it easily and not happy with joining things or making payment by IT. I would certainly be interested in a local branch (Permanent resident, 15 years).



Two points:



1. Can you get embargoes lifted without recognition? Surely it is the lack of legal status that allows justification of emabargoe? Chicken and egg situation?



2. Human nature is human nature. No adminsitration is free from corruption! What about the numerous scandals that British Governments have suffered and do you really think the British legal system is fair and impartial?. Unfortunately a large, recognised country can ride them, the TRNC is subject to critical scrutiny and justice should be seen to be done.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 23:04

Dear Bizzi Lizzi,



Thanks for this.



Offline joining is easy - just go to http://embargoed.org/offline-joining.php. If you need help, just email us.



On your other points



1. the TRNC voted yes in 2004 - the promise was that if it did so, the embargoes would be dropped. if the international community won't keep its promises, we need to work to take them out, brick by brick.



2. Well said.

martinD41


Joined: 06/09/2010
Posts: 3001

Message Posted:
09/10/2011 23:54

I like being Embargoed,without it, this place would be as boring as everywhere else...

Erkin


Joined: 15/06/2011
Posts: 339

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 07:57

I for one would stop all negotiations with the south the so called legal Government of Cyprus, and announce a referendum on becoming the 82nd state of Republic of Turkey, then watch how quick the Greek Cypriot Government will then agree to reunification of the island instead of bickering we want this , we want that,and how quick the rest of the E.U will put pressure of the so called legal Government to resolve this issue.

If in the referendum we choose to be part of of Republic of Turkey, there is nothing the UN, the E.U or the 9 permanent members of the UN can do about it, by becoming the 82nd state of Republic of Turkey, which we are almost anyway with the population, currency, Banking and many other ways, The embargoes will be lifted unless they are going to embargo Turkey, I don’t think so.

Then the Greeks can scream all day long for shooting themselves in the foot by dragging on so long with all this crap.

As each day passes it is becoming harder to agree any kind of settleme

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 08:32

I can confirm that Ismail Veli, Ipek Ozerim, John Oakes, Fevzi Hussein all of embargoed are firm helpers and supporters of all property scam victims. When asked Embargoed and ACTA gave their support to Stop the Blackmail in North Cyprus facebook page and many are members. They are working to make life better for the men and women of TRNC, the behaviour of the current govt. makes their job an uphill struggle. I take my hat off to them for keeping at it. I thank them for their support.



Pauline Read.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 08:37

Dyslexia strikes again that should be ATCA Association of Turkish Cypriots Abroad who also do a great job

for recognition of the TRNC despite the present Govt.



Remember folks, it is the ordinary men and women who are the life blood of the TRNC.

ilovecyprus


Joined: 08/05/2007
Posts: 2880

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 08:51

Keep up the good work Beekeeper.



I can see that you are not allowing the negative Brits to put you off. Well done.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 10:50

Thank you, Pauline - your refusal to give up or to stoop to the dirty tactics used against you - are humbling.



One day, your story will make a great film. I hope and pray it has a happy ending.

theparson


Joined: 28/05/2011
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 11:37

Having read through this recent thread I would certainly agree that embargoed needs some public relations help, and fast.

Just look at the posting itself and the words.....why don you lot......

Now if you want to get the masses on your side you must not talk down to them, you need to listen to the points raised by others in a sympathetic manner and then you might get a more positive response.



I fully understand the message, but in this case the messenger must be shot.



For that reason.....count me out.

bustybabs


Joined: 17/02/2011
Posts: 25

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 12:18

The only positive response you ever get out theparson is "yes, I'll have a pint". And he's always in the loo when it's his round!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 13:49

Got your attention didn't it - that means it achieved its purpose the parson. Retired Human Rghts Consultant.

Got to go or I'll wet myself laughing.

theparson


Joined: 28/05/2011
Posts: 129

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 13:55

Are now someone gets personal when they dont even know me.

Tut Tut.

Only 3 errors on your posting.

Learn from your mistakes and things will suddenly improve.

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 14:30

It's called irony theparson but if I have to explain, then it is lost. Or is it not me you are accusing of being personal. I only read your profile You are beginning to sound like Mystic Meg.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 14:43

"in this case the messenger must be shot".



Really???



Excuse me for saying this, but shooting the messenger isn't normally associated with great strategic thinking.



And its not a terribly nice thing to do anyway.



The point of this post was to ask the decent folk of Cyprus 44 - of which there are many - to help, either with cash, or with their advice, experience and contacts, in order that we might make our part of the world better.



I'm pleased to report that it has led to new enquires for membership. So thanks to all who have read this in the spirit in which it was intended.

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 15:29

Message 16

What is the point in arranging payment through Paypal when people living in TRNC cannot open a Paypal account?

BizziLizzi


Joined: 02/08/2011
Posts: 855

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 16:53

Excuse my ignorance, but this is a genuine request for info.



Message 16: Is that right JJ? I have never tried to, but way things ae going might have to. Does it apply even if one has a Sterling Account with a UK Bank (albeit a TRNC address)?

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 17:49

Its new to me to.



As an eBay enthusiast, I'm using Paypal all the time - including from the TRNC. I do, though, have a UK address.



If it's true, there are clearly ways around it - as my account demonstrates.



However, this is yet more proof, were it needed, of why we need the embargoes to go.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 17:50

Its new to me to.



As an eBay enthusiast, I'm using Paypal all the time - including from the TRNC. I do, though, have a UK address.



If it's true, there are clearly ways around it - as my account demonstrates.



However, this is yet more proof, were it needed, of why we need the embargoes to go.



Paypal is great for our UK members too - a big timesaver on sending cheques through the post.

fiendishpaul


Joined: 18/05/2008
Posts: 1720

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 17:53

With estimates of the amount of TC's living in UK ranging from 100,000 to 130,000, maybe it would be worth tapping them up for a tenner each. Embargoed would be loaded and could afford some really 'Gucci' advertising campaigns - just a thought



Paul

Marion


Joined: 06/03/2011
Posts: 1816

Message Posted:
10/10/2011 23:31

Yes Paul, but this is not just about getting in the cash, it is about getting people to back embargoed! in their fight.

Bee Keeper is doing a grand p.r. job here, and using the terminology he has has resulted in a lot of people reading this - innit! also, I wonder how many people know what HE does for a living in real terms. In his own way he is a bit of a preacher, as this thread proves, but he is no parson!!

Incidentally, why does The parson call himself that, unless he is a reverend gentleman in disguise.

Sorry, that is off thread, but all this is about is encouraging people to join E!, - the more that join, the louder the voice, and the more money, the stronger the fight.

As to having a local branch out here, BeeKeeper I suggested that ages ago, but maybe the time was not right. But most of the work is done fromk London - great meetings at Warsaw and great spokespeople for the rights of TC's. so, yes, COME JOIN US!!!

misunderstood


Joined: 08/04/2011
Posts: 1004

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 08:26

Here is my promised Marion, when I have the time to give to Embargoed! to be able to use my not inconsiderable energy to their cause, I will be there.



At the moment I am fighting my Advocate (previous one), my K5 case, trying to help people with problems on Stop the Balckmail as admin and committee member and writing on NCFP. I would not be able to gvie E! the support I would like to.

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 09:33

I have tried many times to set up Paypal. I am TRNC resident with no UK address. I have UK bank accounts with Barclays and HSBC and TRNC bank account with HSBC.



Firstly, you can only use a foreign bank account if it is in the US



Secondly, to enter the address on your bank a/c, the country is chosen from a dropdown list - TRNC/KKTC is not in that list. Barclays and HSBC UK use 'Mersin 10 Turkey' in the address (which would be OK) - but HSBC Cyprus do not, they use KKTC. So you cannot enter the address on your bank account which Paypal check electronically before opening the account.

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 09:39

Also I note that joining by the offline method is restricted to UK residents. So your topic complains that we TRNC residents don't join you but your rules actually prevent us from joining.

Marilyn


Joined: 29/08/2008
Posts: 52

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 09:57

First, may I say that I fully support the aims of Embargoed.

The problem is how to go about making an impact.

There are some 50,000 ? Brits living in TRNC for some or most of the time, but as they are not allowed to vote the politicians take very little notice of them.

negativenick


Joined: 10/11/2008
Posts: 6023

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 10:56

what have embargo'd done for the trnc over the last 10 years ?

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 10:58

People who want to join always find a way to join.



If you want to hand over a tenner (or more to help us with our work) just get in touch and we'll find a way for you to hand over the cash.



It may be as simple as a face to face meeting in a bar in Lapta or Kyrenia.

Jovial_John


Joined: 31/01/2009
Posts: 1024

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 11:41

But it's an interesting anomaly isn't it - that Embargoed are effectively embargoing TRNC residents. Certainly it would give some ammunition to your opponents.

But the real point is that if you want us to join then you could make us feel a bit more wanted by giving us a simple route to membership. Why on earth would you restrict 'offline' membership to UK residents with UK bank accounts?

Why not appoint a resident here as an agent who can manage membership/collect cash on your behalf.

BeeKeeper


Joined: 29/09/2009
Posts: 137

Message Posted:
11/10/2011 15:23

John - that's rubbish. Embargoed make it as easy as possible to join. We simply have to work within the constraints of (a) being a volunteer organisation with tiny funds and (b) the embargoes, which make it harder to trade with Northern Cyprus.



If you want to give us a tenner and/or help us overcome the problems facing the TRNC (and my presumption is that you don't) just let us know, and we will find a way for you to do this.



What have embargo'd done for the trnc over the last 10 years ?



Negative Nick -

* we have had questions asked in the UK parliament.

* we have had gained the support of internationally respected peace campaigners, such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson

* we have maintained a constant dialogue with political figures in the UK, Europe and Turkey who support change.



Sooner or later, our campaign to end the embargoes will succeed. But that day will never come unless we do what we are doing - chipping away, bit by bit.